NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

[M BLADE]

Curse Slowking was way back on the last meta (where my posts resumed to gimmicky pokes). Gimme a break...
Rampardos? Fine, but it is as gimmicky as this Torterra.

Second, switching out once you see Tangrowth/Leafeon/Torterra and catch it on the switch-in doesn't require you to be a genious

I don't know if you didn't saw or it wasn't very clear, but i said this on that part:

unless you've already seen Tangrowth coming in before and uses HP Ice next time

Also, Latias has a useful special attack...


If Torterra had more special attack, it would be fine for me.

PS: About Curse Slowking: Do you have good memory or are you stalking me? lol

 

[Bluewind]

Rampardos? Fine, but it is as gimmicky as this Torterra.

Lol moment of the thread for me. Rampardos, the mon that takes 60% from Swellow's Facade. And base 75 is good enough, it gets Torterra the 2HKOes it needs with little investment and that's just about it.

PS: Nah, some of the stuff I read here impress me so much that I just can't let go.

 

[Cherub Agent]

I agree with the choice band kangaskhan. It may have average to good attack, but there's really no safe switch in to it. Really underrated pokemon

 

[Folgorio]

No, it's not. (and i stopped posting random gimmicks here, if you want to know).

What do you use, Rock Polish and HP Ice?
Let's see...


1- Unless you do some magical prediction, Tangrowth comes in on Rock Polish/EQ/Wood Hammer and puts you to sleep while you fail to KO it with HP Ice. Tangrowth wins 60% of the time (unless you've already seen Tangrowth coming in before and uses HP Ice next time... which even then it could just switch out.)
2-Leafeon is almost on the same situation: the difference is that Torterra has this one on it's favor. Unless it carries Yawn (unlikely), Torterra can stand a Leaf Blade and 2HKO with HP Ice... it loses when you use Wood Hammer/EQ on the switch though.
3-Altaria gets KOed by Stone Edge just fine. HP Ice Torterra gets stalled by bulky Altaria using Roost to cut the damage. Also, if it RP on the switch and uses HP Ice but fails to KO, there's always the switching option (not to say Altaria won't dare to switch into Torterra in fear of Stone Edge).
4-Weezing is a lost cause. Don't try to take it with Torterra: you can't.
5-Torterra doesn't counter Torterra. HP Ice still doesn't KO (at leat that's what someone here said: it deals 80%), but at least you're preservng some health since you won't need to use Wood Hammer...

The solution: giving Torterra more sp.atk EVs. Is this worth it?

What do you lose without Stone Edge:

1-Moltres. This is bad, really bad.
2-Drifblim/Articuno. Those are not even UU, so whatever. Didn't even Bolded them. But they show themselves on UU sometimes, and giving a free sub to Articuno or free CM for Drifblim is annoying.
3-Overall usefulness: So yeah, you're using HP Ice to pick your counters off guard... but you see, they have to be REALLY off guard for you to win.





The flashback is from HP Ice Heracross trying to defeat old Gliscor. Yeah, way back and more like this Torterra discussion: giving something to KO it's usual counters.

Yeah okay look hp ice tort works with LO+synthesis, not with rock polish. Now most of your arguments are wrong because they way to use that torterra is with prediction. You switch out after the first attack to lure your opponent into a fall sense of security then hit them with hp ice on the switch. If you do that right youll 2hko tangrowth/leafeon/ OHKO scyther(with SR) and believe it or not you actually beat altaria 1-1 if you can predict. the only form of altaria that isnt OHKO'd with rocks is the support one, which takes ~50% from hp ice and besides that you are faster than this altaria. So assuming you can predict well enough this can actually be more reliable than stone edge due to the gay accuracy. SO basically you're trading coverage on leafeon+tangrowth for moltres which I find terrific because alot of people tend to be reluctant to switch in due to the fear of stone edge/rock slide. The same applies for articuno/drifblim (which btw you really shouldnt be staying in on anyways). Oh and support torterra actually does counter other torterra but with hp ice you easily beat it 1-1 too.

Oh and by the way, yes i know this is a gimmick, but i felt it would seem appropriate to post it because unlike many other gimmicks it actually does work and imo i see more pros than cons for this set/torterra.

 

[Heysup]

I don't think I'd ever want to give Moltres the free switch. Maybe a 4 Attack + Expert Belt set?

 

[PK Gaming]

PS: Nah, some of the stuff I read here impress me so much that I just can't let go.

Hahahaha...

Honestly, I figure I'll give this Mixterra a go. I mean I can always switch into my Bulky water for Moltres so that's a start. It's also nice to beat down opposing Torterra's because 9/10 out of ten my offensive Torterra turns out to be my best Torterra check...

Hide

You don't have dirt on me right?

 

[Bluewind]

No, because Raichu has some things going for it like Encore and Focus Blast, while Rampardos is just 95% of the times outclassed by Rhyperior (and the other 5% by Aggron I suppose).

On the Expert Belt thing I suppose it's still viable, though it will need more SpAtk investment. Bluffing a choice item is very good though...

 

[M BLADE]

Lol moment of the thread for me. Rampardos, the mon that takes 60% from Swellow's Facade. And base 75 is good enough, it gets Torterra the 2HKOes it needs with little investment and that's just about it.

PS: Nah, some of the stuff I read here impress me so much that I just can't let go.

You didn't used that Rampardos, did you?
I also didn't used this Torterra, so i admit it has it's uses (luring and KO counters, which can be really beneficial).
I can't bash something if i didn't used it, so i won't do it anymore.

 

[Bluewind]

I don't need to use it to tell Rhyperior is outclassing that set in all situations except for when it comes to beating Milotic, in which's case I'd just use Aggron, his access to a 150 STAB with no drawbacks and the ability of not being 2HKOed (or 10HKoed) by Swellow. I bet not many people have been using Luvdisc around and I can tell if I post a set about it I'll get equally bashed. Also, on a ladder with things like CB Registeel I find it hard to tell whether something works or not.

 

[M BLADE]

Don't forget Blastoise.

And that's what gimmicky is: it's unexpected. Like HP Ice Torterra, you won't think that Rampardos is going to put a Sub against, say, Weezing trying to WoW it and it proceeds to KO it with Earthquake.
It's the surprise factor.

Of course Rhyperior is better... that's not the point.

Also: it you find Ladder filled with crap... just don't do it.

 

[Bluewind]

Rhyperior can equally Sub on Weezing. Also, once your opponent knows Rampardos can Sub he just won't try to do that again in future matches, which utterly reduces its usefulness. However, once your opponent knows Torterra has HP Ice it won't be any easier for him to handle it, as he'll always have to predict whether he can send in his Tangrowth or he'll get 2HKOed. That's the difference between good and bad gimmicks.

Also: I know, that's why I'm not laddering.

 

[M BLADE]

Rampardos can always attack instead of using Sub. At least it's ensured to hurt something (since... well, it's Rampardos).

I paired it with Thunder Wave/Yawn pokes. That buys some time for Rampardos to attack.
This Rampardos alone is somewhat of a letdown (although it likes stall teams a bit). Without help, i wouldn't use this Rampardos either (since Rhyperior is better).

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Weezing is a terrible switch-in to both Rhyperior and Rampardos and therefore a terrible example if you're trying to demonstrate "why gimmicks work". If a gimmick had any sort of effectiveness, it would not be, by definition, a gimmick. By terming your own set a gimmick, you have indirectly admitted to its inefficiency.

 

[M BLADE]

Weezing is a terrible switch-in to both Rhyperior and Rampardos and therefore a terrible example if you're trying to demonstrate "why gimmicks work". If a gimmick had any sort of effectiveness, it would not be, by definition, a gimmick. By terming your own set a gimmick, you have indirectly admitted to its inefficiency.

It's more like directly.
It IS a gimmick. Rampardos itslef is a gimmick poke.
Why would i use Rampardos? Simple: surprise factor, and nothing else. It sometimes works because of this factor.

I admit that. It was cool when i used it on the first time, but now don't see why would i use it (despite the fact it's still in my team because i'm too lazy to take it off).


So, that Rampardos is a gimmick. Let's turn the page.

 

[capefeather]

Not to mention that to outdamage Aggron you have to inflict massive damage on yourself.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

It's more like directly.
It IS a gimmick. Rampardos itslef is a gimmick poke.
Why would i use Rampardos? Simple: surprise factor, and nothing else. It sometimes works because of this factor.

I've always seen Rampardos' best and only good use in UU is for pure brute force, i.e. spamming moves with maximum power to break down defensive cores early, with little regard for its lifespan. Just use Adamant CB, in the lead or otherwise, with Head Smash / Superpower / Earthquake / Zen Headbutt and blast away at anything slow / unthreatening. It only really needs enough speed for min Hitmontop, so the rest can be pumped in physical defense to help take a couple of hits from Swellow / Arcanine / Low Kick-less Ambipom etc, so that it isn't completely helpless against offense. That's important because its Attack is complete overkill against any remotely frail team, and its weaknesses are completely laid bare.

Works much better when the metagame has shifted to slow bulky leads, or defensive teams in general, but I know very little about the current metagame so whatever. Speaking of which, I haven't played for ages due to several personal issues, and it will probably be quite a while before I am in the mood for regular battling again. I still am very much taking an active interest in what's happening in the UU metagame though. Also, I won't be arguing with Heysup for a while either unfortunately, nor the half-dozen other users who seem to have transformed into him recently.

 

[Heysup]

I think M BLADE is confusing the terms "gimmick" and "pokemon that sucks compared to other Pokemon and is thus used less".

People will know what Rampardos does, it's not like you need to prepare for it like you need to have specific things to beat Shedinja (an example of a gimmick).

Also, I won't be arguing with Heysup for a while either unfortunately, nor the half-dozen other users who seem to have transformed into him recently.

:(

 

[Scoopapa]

I think M BLADE is confusing the terms "gimmick" and "pokemon that sucks compared to other Pokemon and is thus used less".

People will know what Rampardos does, it's not like you need to prepare for it like you need to have specific things to beat Shedinja (an example of a gimmick).

Also, I won't be arguing with Heysup for a while either unfortunately, nor the half-dozen other users who seem to have transformed into him recently.

:(

 

[Rolf]

As far as stallbreakers go, I've had some good success with a Sub/Liechi Rampardos with Rock Polish, Stone Edge, and EQ. It works something like Empoleon does in OU except without the Torrent boost - it really doesn't need it due to it's... attack. One large perk that it has over Rhyperior in this respect is the OHKO on Venusaur with a +1 Stone Edge. It really opens gaping holes in any stall team.

Also, I won't be arguing with Heysup for a while either unfortunately, nor the half-dozen other users who seem to have transformed into him recently.

:(

 

[ToF]

HP Ice Torterra is indeed a gimmick, but its a successful one. I know first hand how it works, and it does what it's suppose to do. If it completes what it's suppose to do, I see no problem in people using it.

 

[M BLADE]

Okay, i admit i have english issues (so i don't know what "gimmick" means, and i should stop saying things without knowing it's meaning).

So let's leave at that: Rampardos is outclassed.
Better? (and i don't know how "outclassed" is translated lol... i guess i know it's meaning though).


Moving on, let's speak about the meta.

Is Arcanine getting less used?
Because i've seriously seen more Houndooms around.

 

[anti404]

I've noticed less Arcanines in my matches, and I must imagine that the influx of FlashFire MixDoom contributes to this. I've also seen a lot of Houndooms running from the Lead position.

I'm thinking about trying out an Arcanine @ Life Orb lead, though; priority+ Intimidate +self healing seems as though it would do pretty well against some of the common leads I've been seeing(namely: Hariyama, Mesprit, Houndoom with Sucker Punch, Uxie via Toxic stalling, etc). Adamant 20HP/252ATK/236SPE outruns +nature base 80's, and if I did some of the calculations right, it 2HKOs three of the leads I mentioned.

 

[Bluewind]

That's pretty much standart offensive Nine put in the lead position.

 

[anti404]

That's pretty much standart offensive Nine put in the lead position.

yeah, but being in the lead position it functions differently. I've tested it slightly(not a lot because I'm kind of burnt out) and it did pretty well as far as I can figure. I was just wondering if anyone else had used it as a lead/anti-lead as well.
I am trying to figure out if the added bulk of the anti-lead Analysis set would be more valuable than the outspeeding of +natured base 80's.

 

[PK Gaming]

I've got a question you guys.

Riddle me this:
Hidden Power Ice or Grass Knot on NPRaichu? On the one hand I'm given the option to OHKO Torterra (before NP) and get the jump on offensive Venusaur (after NP).


But on the other hand, I beat down Rhyperior's 100% of the time, and Donphan's too so that's pretty awesome.

Opinions kind friends?