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NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

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It's not exactly major, but Tentacruel does much better against SubSeeders, whereas Milotic just feeds them tons of health.

Wasn't Tentacruel UU at some point, though? Does something automatically get moved out of UU if it becomes popular in OU?
 
Talking about potential UU's is cool... but can't we at least talk about ones that have a chance to drop down? Evire and Dusknoir are way up on the last at the moment and Tentacruel is very safe, especially since its usuage will go up with Latias banished.

If anything, we should be talking about Hera (like we are, even though Hera has teased for awhile now), Roserade rejoining, and Smeargle as they are all much closer than Evire, Dusknoir, and Tentacruel.
 
Roserade is basically Moltres with a sleep move. And Spikes. And no SR weak. So yeah it's basically just a much better Moltres. It was on the verge of being banned before it moved to OU of its own accord, although I'd be happy to give it a shot if only because I'd be seeing fewer fat, ugly venusaurs. Smeargle would just be tons of fun in the tier. With roserade and smeargle around though expect tons of Lum Berry leads and a major spike in Ambipom usage, as well as a resurgence in spikestack offense (sleep moves make spikestacking fun!).
 
I wouldn't mind Roserade. Would be nice to have a free switch-in to Milotic that can start setting up spikes. Also means I can get rid of this grotsky little beyotch Qwilfish.
 
To be honest, if Tenta ever drops, I'd stick with Hitmontop and Donphan as spinners. SR resist is sexy, T-Spikes aren't particularly common, and very easy to absorb with Venusaur, and the fact is, Tenta simple doesn't have the offensive capabilities to really threaten spin-blockers. Base 80 SpA, off the top of my head. He won't like taking Thunderbolts from Rotom and Missy either...
 
Son_of_Shadoo said:
To be honest, if Tenta ever drops, I'd stick with Hitmontop and Donphan as spinners. SR resist is sexy, T-Spikes aren't particularly common, and very easy to absorb with Venusaur, and the fact is, Tenta simple doesn't have the offensive capabilities to really threaten spin-blockers. Base 80 SpA, off the top of my head. He won't like taking Thunderbolts from Rotom and Missy either...
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SD + spin Tentacruel, nuff said.
 
I just noticed that quite interestingly, many of these potential drop-downs would result in a massive rise in Dugtrio's effectiveness. LO Adamant Dugtrio does 103.45% to offensive Roserade, meaning that Dugtrio can very easily revenge kill it and remove it from the game, something it could only do to Venusaur once it was heavily weakened. Electivire and Tentacruel are obviously greatly threatened by Dugtrio - it does 87.9% minimum to a 252/252 Bold Tentacruel with LO Adamant Earthquake. Dugtrio can also trap and OHKO any Heracross set bar Scarf with Aerial Ace. Just throwing out some speculation :).
 
Well, Raikou isn't around any more, so Jolly isn't absolutely necessary. With Adamant, Duggy still ties with Scyther and Mismagius.
 
dbcb said:
Talking about potential UU's is cool... but can't we at least talk about ones that have a chance to drop down? Evire and Dusknoir are way up on the last at the moment and Tentacruel is very safe, especially since its usuage will go up with Latias banished.

If anything, we should be talking about Hera (like we are, even though Hera has teased for awhile now), Roserade rejoining, and Smeargle as they are all much closer than Evire, Dusknoir, and Tentacruel.
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It's fun to talk about dropdowns. Not everything has to be 100% productive and relevant, especially since there really isn't that much to talk about in term of the current metagame. If this is a problem, all the more reason to lose the megathread.
 
I will legitmately start running HP ground on all of my electric sweepers if Electivire drops. Seriously, that pokemon will be nothing but detrimental to this metagame. Kiss good bye to your offensive Rotom, no you'll have to run bulky Restalk to stay effective.

Electivire and Milotic would also be an extremely annoying combo. It's that ridiculous ability of his that pisses me off.

Tentacruel in UU would be excellent. More variety in bulky waters and an actual Moltres counter? (even offensive varients can pull it off)

Dusknoir is a bit tricky. In theory it's only slightly bulkier than Dusclops, but it can actually hurt things with that base 100 attack. (unlike Dusclops who just sits there...)


Electivire would be underwhelming, but a good addition to UU I think. His main point is that he beats down the MiloSteel core with great prejudice. Being able to outspeed a large portion of the tier is nice too. Anything I could think to run Dusknoir with is played better with Spiritomb, but I'm not think too hard.
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Standard Mixed E-vire only deals (40.7% - 48.6%) and offensive varients do (53.3% - 63.2%)
hardly anything to right home about. (Registeel's Earthquake deals 68% - 80.4%)
In fact, if that loser drops down it's back to using Earthquake on Registeel. Honestly, what's with these electric types and their running of UU metagame?
 
cool pokemon:

-roselia is a pretty cool spiker. its can actually be a competent stall member if you're sick and tired (like me) of using water-type spikers. i find it hard to spike with the transition of the metagame centralising waters somewhat. roselia with 252/252 calm can set up on milotic, special venusaur, chansey, to name a few.

-special defensive weezing is probably THE BEST glue of this metagame. it reminds me of skarmory in ou. its probably one of the best venusaur counter in the game (any variant, bar leech seed). a simple sleep talk / rest / sludge bomb / wow can check a number of prominent threats today. i'm talking about torterra, mix terra (fucking noob folgorio), and sceptile.

-psychic tomb is also an awesome pokemon to use at this point of the metagame. often regarded as a gimmick the past but not now. it hurts those ugly toxicroak (any variants), venusaur, blaziken trying to set up, to name a few.

-pinsir is a vicious sweeper to look out for in this metagame and in the near-future. with the metagame shift, stall teams are incredibly weak to pinsir after a single sd. people are turning to tangrowth, weezing, and omastar for their defensive pivots on their stall -- all three ravaged by mold breaker eq or x-scissor respectively.

I took a big halt in this metagame I found it boring to be frank, but i encourage people to try out new threats to SHIFT this metagame. UU is fun and all but I like metagame shifts because it makes team building fun. The more we shift the metagame, the more teams become diverse. my 2 cents.
 
Psychic tomb is definitely a gimmick that works and catches a lot of pokes off guard and stop tomb from being set up bait.
 
Ice-eyes said:
Smeargle would be an interesting dropdown, but I don't see it having too much of an impact.
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I disagree, while it wasn't common the first New UU tier, I used it to great succes. Mayby the fast paced nature of UU compared to OU might make him less succesfull, but he's pretty awesome. In fact, I could see him being a new spikes suicide lead. Not as good as froslass, but a set of spore spikes trick super fang/rapid spin @ scarf would destroy nonscarfuxie, or come in midgame on registeel, trick it, spore the switchin, and spike from there.
 
I like how people keep listing stall-breakers in this metagame. Almost nobody is playing stall because wallbreakers are very ubiquitous right now...
 
I think that if Heracross, Roserade, and Tentacruel dropped down at the same time it wouldn't be all that bad since there would be more than one pokemon that could be considered "over-centralizing" and from the looks of it Roserade and Heracross are close with Tenta not far off.
 
Isn't Heracross just a slightly slower yet more bulky Hitmonlee? I can see how Heracross would be top of the tier Pokemon, but it has largely the same counters as Hitmonlee. Saying that, guts makes it that much harder to control, if you accidentally burn Heracross, not a lot is stopping it.

I have to say I am against Tentacruel for UU. Do we really need a new Toxic Spiker? Toxic Spikes is a rarity in UU, with the presence of Venusaur almost single handedly making them useless. Besides, most of UU is already walled by one near-broken bulky water, we certainly don't need a second. Although, if it did for some reason drop down, I would probably run a SD/Waterfall/Poison Jab/Filler set, purely for lols.
 
Tentacruel would hardly be as centralizing as Milotic. It doesn't have the physical defense or the Recovery. Being weak to EQ sucks and it can't really abuse that resistance to Fighting at all. It also loses to 2 top special threats in Zam and Missy, but beats Moltres, which Milotic can do anyway. Toxic Spikes aren't useful with Venusaur, Toxicroak, and (I'm assuming) opposing Tentacruel running around everywhere so its advantage is lolKnock Off. I'd troll with Mirror Coat though cause no one expects it.

I doubt Tentacruel will ever dro down though. With Latias gone teams need an Infernape counter, and Tentacruel is one of the best.
 
Alexa888 said:
Isn't Heracross just a slightly slower yet more bulky Hitmonlee? I can see how Heracross would be top of the tier Pokemon, but it has largely the same counters as Hitmonlee. Saying that, guts makes it that much harder to control, if you accidentally burn Heracross, not a lot is stopping it.
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Heracross is a lot bulkier (resisting Earthquake and Fighting as well), and it's attack is a little higher. It hardly has the same counters, though: it can hit the bulky psychics that Hitmonlee has trouble with with SE STAB Megahorn, for one.

Which reminds me, Pinsir would hate having to compete with Hera even more than Lee
 
Alexa888 said:
Isn't Heracross just a slightly slower yet more bulky Hitmonlee? I can see how Heracross would be top of the tier Pokemon, but it has largely the same counters as Hitmonlee. Saying that, guts makes it that much harder to control, if you accidentally burn Heracross, not a lot is stopping it.
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Only three Pokemon in UU can take a Choice Band Megahorn and not be 2HKO or outspeed and OHKO.

Heracross basically breaks UU. I've done so many calcs for this on IRC you don't even know.

Tentacruel might be an interesting drop, though.

EDIT: Addendum. Not be 2HKO'd and actually do shit to Heracross.
 
Thund91 said:
I doubt Tentacruel will ever dro down though. With Latias gone teams need an Infernape counter, and Tentacruel is one of the best.
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It might drop down, actually, as Starmie is a pretty good check to Infernape in itself, and is able to shrug off any damage dealt with Recover. Also, Tentacruel is never going to be as dominating as Milotic. It is in no way superior to Milotic other than the fact it is a 100% full stop to Moltres, and gets Rapid Spin. It can't check half the things Milotic checks reliably, such as Rhyperior, Aggron and the like. The Poison typing does it more harm than good.
 
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