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NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

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Heysup said:
By now we should all really know that Thunderbolt is probably the most deadly STAB move because of the nature of this metagame to be full of bulky Waters. Raikou was just the only electric that doesn't suck.....
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So, are you saying Rotom sucks?

Anyway, bulky waters are everywhere... as does grass and ground pokes (who takes Thunderbolts like nothing).
Grass attacks does a better job at taking water pokes off anyway.

AND using Thunderbolt mght be dangerous because of Dugtrio.
So i personally don't think Thunderbolt is the most deadly STAB (i will always praise Fire Blast as being the most deadly STAB out there).
 
The most dangerous STAB in UU by far is Flying, and always has been. This is because its resists have common common (both meanings) weaknesses, and not a single immunity, and there are very few good Electrics as Heysup mentioned. A Flying type with a good Flying attack off a decent stat needs to have some major drawback, whether it be coverage issues, extreme frailty or being slow with no means of getting around the fact, in order to not be a dominant force in UU. It takes a lot more for a Flying type to not be at least considered Suspect than any other type in UU, and there is already plenty of evidence for this.

In fact, a strong STAB Fire Blast is not Moltres' most defining dangerous attribute, it is a strong STAB Air Slash. In that it has a destructive and safe early-game spamming move that other Fires can only dream of.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
In fact, a strong STAB Fire Blast is not Moltres' most defining dangerous attribute, it is a strong STAB Air Slash. In that it has a destructive and safe early-game spamming move that other Fires can only dream of.
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Let's put it that way:

Without Fire Blast, Moltres wouldn't be near as powerful/effective as it is.
Without Air Slash, it loses a good spamming move with a good flinching rate but only modest Base Power.

I agree that Air Slash is a good spamming move, and a safe option of opening attack with Moltres... but without Fire Blast wouldn't be as feared as it is.
 
@ M-Blade, I doubt that Lemmiwinks MkII is saying that Air Slash is Moltres's most destructive move, as one can easily compare the base power between Fire Blast and Air Slash. Air Slash is its defining characteristic, what sets it apart from other similar special sweepers, in that it has a secondary STAB that still fucks up any switch-in you may attempt to get in on a Fire resist. So your argument that without either move it wouldn't be effective isn't really relevant to what is being contested.
 
I don't know what the hell is defining. I'm just bad at english lol.
So, i could argue that Thunderbolt Magmortar has this same characteristic?

Because, for me, Thunderbolt is the move that every fire poke would dream of having it.
Only because of coverage issues, because Air Slash does hit a excellent neutrality against most pokes (even if Fire and Flying hits 2 of the same types for SE and are resisted by rock... that's what Hidden Power is for), often giving Moltres advantage over most pokes.
 
Yea as I have mentioned I can see no "cookie cutter" team. However what has broughten about the rebirth of rain? Neither Frosslass or Riakou really hindered them.
 
Raikou did cause Rain a lot of problems when it stopped raining though, however, it's not like Rain is a Rain counter in itself. I personally don't mind facing Rain again and again, I'll just bring out my Ragequit team to get free wins.
 
Flying type attacks are powerful but they are easily walled imo. Most users of STAB flying (save Moltres/Charizard) can't get past bulky steel/rock types. Aggron, Steelix, Registeel and even Regirock (who happens to be a fine check/counter to Moltres/Charizard) can stop flying type moves with ease.



In my opinion, Electric types easily have the strongest STAB in the UU metagame. Bulky waters are everywhere and hitting them supereffectively is very good. (Unlike Grass types moves which are indeed powerful but are resisted by far to many types)

Being walled by ground types sucks, but fortunately ground types are often hit hard by the electric's coverage moves (HP Ice/Focus blast for Ground Rock/Ground Steel)

If only we had more capable Electric types. (Excluding Rotom of course)
Still a strong T-bolt from something like Ampharos can hurt, and it makes it an efficient stallbreaker when paired with coverage moves of choice.
 
I agree with Lemmi, Flying has always been the strongest STAB. Staraptor, Crobat, Honchkrow, all suspects banned that pounded through teams with STAB Brave bird (Crobat, believe it or not, was a pretty big offensive threat despite only using BB). Swellow and Moltres are both the biggest powerhouses on their side of the attack spectrum. Flyings most important attribute imo is taking out bulky grass types, which as or even more common than bulky waters, as well as getting great neutral coverage with a 120 BP move. Electric is a great STAB, but doesnt have any standout users besides Raikou.
 
Random Pizzaman said:
I agree with Lemmi, Flying has always been the strongest STAB. Staraptor, Crobat, Honchkrow, all suspects banned that pounded through teams with STAB Brave bird (Crobat, believe it or not, was a pretty big offensive threat despite only using BB). Swellow and Moltres are both the biggest powerhouses on their side of the attack spectrum. Flyings most important attribute imo is taking out bulky grass types, which as or even more common than bulky waters, as well as getting great neutral coverage with a 120 BP move. Electric is a great STAB, but doesnt have any standout users besides Raikou.
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But the question entails the current metagame. Flying type moves aren't as good as you state. Swellow is often spamming Facade as Brave bird is to costly on it's Health state. (Honestly, does Swellow just run Brave bird just to hit ghost types?)

Moltres Air slash is very useful, but only when used in conjunction with Fire blast. Moltres wouldn't even be a 1/10th as good if it's main STAB was Air slash.

Electric is the best STAB in the tier in my opinion, and are people forgetting Rotom? He's an excellent pokemon and utilizes his STAB T-bolts to the fullest.
 
Granted this is only my fourth day of UU / competitve battling. But from what I found grass is like the dragon type of UU. It not only has good defensive typing but it is able to get through the ground and water types that are key components of cores of teams. I mean I looked at the statistics and Venusaur being the top pokemon is no surprise. The down side however is that there are super grass resisters AKA Moltres etc. Flying does have its benefits but I think flyings ability can only be seen in pokemon that can have other ways of getting rid of the steels and rock types. Moltres has fire blast, staraptor has superpower or close combat (can't remember which), and honchkrow has superpower I think. That ability to get through flying's hard counters and just start firing off flying attack is what makes flying such a powerful attack. On the other hand that can be said for almost anything. Ground is a great attacking type when paired with ice to remove flying and grass (unfortunately no UU to my knowledge can pull this off effectively); Donphan does have ice shard though lol. Dark is another powerful attacking type that can be seen in such pokemon as Absol. With the removal of steels and fighting types, Absol truly is a disaster for the opponent. Krow I would assume had similar effect. Houndoom is a perfect example as with Fire Blast he can by pass the steels and most fighting types. This allows him in himself to become a great sweeper. Well now that I have effectively gotten off topic I must get to the primary idea behind my post. I am not doubting that flying is the best offensive attacking type; I am rather giving food for thought that without the right combination of attacks and typing it is near impossible to have maximum performance. That is what hinders swellow in my opinion. She has no way around her counters plus the poison damage keeps building up if you are dumb enough to try to take down a rhyperior.
 
PK Gaming said:
But the question entails the current metagame. Flying type moves aren't as good as you state. Swellow is often spamming Facade as Brave bird is to costly on it's Health state. (Honestly, does Swellow just run Brave bird just to hit ghost types?)

Moltres Air slash is very useful, but only when used in conjunction with Fire blast. Moltres wouldn't even be a 1/10th as good if it's main STAB was Air slash.

Electric is the best STAB in the tier in my opinion, and are people forgetting Rotom? He's an excellent pokemon and utilizes his STAB T-bolts to the fullest.
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While I was agreeing with the "always has been" part of that post, in the current metagame Flying STAB is still great (Venusaur is still #1, remember?). Electric STAB also isnt good in the current metagame, because chances are it's coming from a mediocre pokemon, who is Dugtrio weak.
 
It's a bit of a sacrifice, but Substitute or Shed Shell could solve your Dugtrio problems. I honestly wouldn't mind canning NP on Raichu, since the amount of priority in UU makes it ridiculously hard to sweep with that crap defense.
 
I've been using Raichu @ Focus Sash with a moveset of Tbolt/HP Ice/Focus Punch/NP in the lead position, just to fuck with all the Cloyster/Omastar out there. It's been working decently, even if it's not a powerhouse sweeper it forces those spikers out immediately. And if the opposing lead is an Ambipom or something, it can save its sash and revenge something later. You can probably stick Encore on there over Plot or FP if you want to dick with set-uppers more reliably.

Example of effectiveness of Raichu lead:
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
uragg. sent out Raichu (lvl 100 Raichu ?).
Cecelia sent out Absol (lvl 100 Absol ?).
Raichu is tightening its focus!
Absol used Swords Dance.
Absol's attack was sharply raised.
Raichu used Focus Punch.
It's super effective!
Absol lost 100% of its health.
Cecelia's Absol fainted.
---
Cecelia has left the room.
uragg. wins!
 
You gut lucky there, guy. There's no way it would have worked if he didn't expect a switch.

Besides, Cloyster/Omastar aren't going to stack three easy layers any time soon, and they'll fall out of favor once people realize that and stick to good ol' SR. Going the full mile for Spikes requires far too much effort and is really unnecessary unless you're running stall. There's just no replacing Froslass.
 
I've, recently for the last couple of days, seen stall everywhere. Which really sucks since most of my successful teams we're ment to fight more offensive teams. I've been trying to make a new team that can handle stall much easier than my other team, but that hasn't been working out too well. I hate stall.

I haven't seen any rain dance teams since Frosslass and Raikou becoming banned. If I start seeing them again, along with sunny day teams, maybe I can pull back out my old Scarf-Trace Porygon2 and start raping rain/sun teams. :)
 
Damn, suddenly everyone is running double ghost, picking 2 from mismagius/rotom/spiritomb. I've put assurance on my donphan for the first time since he first came down. Missing ice shard kinda sucks, but that's what swelllow quick attack is for righT?
 
Surprisingly enough, I haven't faced a single rain team so far while laddering today. I'm testing a simple Sun team, and it's working wonders. So many people with 1500+ CRE are unprepared for a run-of-the-mill SD Tangrowth (SD / Power Whip / EQ / Rock Slide). Once Tangrowth gets an SD up in the sun, it's basically gg for any opponent that doesn't run Leafeon or Weezing, both of which are (thankfully) quite rare, especially the latter. I'm running a standard Sun Moltres as backup to these threats, and it's quite a deadly combination.

PK Gaming said:
But the question entails the current metagame. Flying type moves aren't as good as you state. Swellow is often spamming Facade as Brave bird is to costly on it's Health state. (Honestly, does Swellow just run Brave bird just to hit ghost types?)
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QFT. This is pretty interesting. As Lemmiwinks said, it's true that Flying is quite a fearsome attacking typing in UU. But, as PK said, we have to focus on the current metagame, which lacks Crobat, Staraptor, and all the other Flying-types who got banned from UU. I don't think there's one type which will necessarily qualify as the "best" attacking type. If we go by resistances, it's obviously Dragon. However, the lack of a UU Pokemon to successfully utilize Dragon (read: not get STAB), apart from Altaria, who doesn't have the most stellar attacking stats, makes it obsolete in UU. In Ubers, though, it's an entirely different story. The "best" attacking type is highly dependent on the metagame.
 
I don't run protect, so I will use swellow to revenge kill while I activate my toxic orb, and I use brave bird for max power since before the orb, swellow is kinda weak...
P.S. Uragg gets more hax than ive ever seen
 
Looks like it's time to break out my sun team again. A couple days of screwing around with it let me get the vote on the ducks, but last period was super-harsh on it.

Still looking for a good second dedicated sunsetter, though. Cress did that quite well :S
 
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