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np: UU - Can't Touch This

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Regardless of the fact it's a fearsome poké appearance wise, it's an awesome sweeper as I've seen on your matches, and it seems it would be even more deadly with support from Dugtrio, as Registeel lols at Jynx face, and so does Lanturn. Kiss me through the sub (yes, that should be its name) is very effective though, as nothing is immune to Ice.
 
FlareBlitz, I remember playing that Jynx from -Meowth- two metagames back and its insanely annoying since Lovely Kiss feels like 100% accuracy -.- I prefer Psychic though because of the SpD drop.

@ Rain Dance discussion

Listen, we are dealing with a group of sweepers here, not one. Every Rain Dance team packs at least 3-4 sweepers, and its just too much to handle (especially with 4 sweepers). Pack all you want, Slowbro, Registeel, or Venusaur, but in the end, I'm almost certain the team with 4 Rain Dance sweepers will come out on top (albeit there is no hax from paralysis). Paralysis is extremely annoying, but it really doesn't do anything to the sweepers. I know people think paralysis is an answer to Rain Dance, but its not a true answer to it. You slow them down, but your still forgetting the x1.5 boost from Rain. So basically your hoping to score some paralysis in the process, and beating RD through hax speaks volume of RD's dominance.

I believe that the only practical way you'll beat Rain Dance is preventing it from being set up. If Rain is not up, most of the sweepers are slow and they are weak to Venusaur (most of them, since they linger around the 80 mark). However, this is no easy task since not every team will run a Taunt user. Like I said, banning Damp Rock will nerf the rain time, I mean ffs this is an immediate +2 Speed + additional Water STAB we're dealing with for eight turns. I made a post in PR, and I said that you ultimately can't make a single move, and your best hope is to weather the hits by switching in and out. With the banning of Damp Rock, more players will attempt to set up rain. I noticed that the set-up users set up at least twice in the entire game, or even less with Damp Rock equipped. This is why they are never taken out of the match, and its because they don't pop-up more frequently to start up rain.
 
I was lazy to mention about Jynx lol

I used a similar set, but with Focus Blast over Sub. Yes, it's unreliable, but has good coverage with Ice Beam and Chansey and especially Registeel really dislikes taking NP Focus Blasts while sleeping...
One NP and Registeel is gone(with SR, this is guaranteed... funny that it hits 252/252 Registeel for the mininal of 94%, with Stealth Rock adding 6%... exact 100%).
Two NPs and a Focus Blast or a NP and 2 Focus Blasts if it freaking hits twice in a row and Chansey is gone.

I would say Jynx is one of the only special attacking wallbreakers on UU thanks to Lovely Kiss , giving you time to set up and KO even those who's supposed to wall special hits. Unless they are bulky waters... lack of Grass Knot hurts here.
 
Listen, we are dealing with a group of sweepers here, not one. Every Rain Dance team packs at least 3-4 sweepers, and its just too much to handle (especially with 4 sweepers).

To an extent, that actually does not matter. When Rain is up, you can only have one Pokemon out. When Rain isn't up, you're sweepers are practically food for the common offensive team. So yea, 4 sweepers is a lot to "beat", but the point isn't to "beat" them, it's to stop them and drill the Rain Dance team when Rain isn't up. That's mainly what I was trying to get at in the post. "hinder their sweep, and then beat them when Rain ends".
 
To an extent, that actually does not matter. When Rain is up, you can only have one Pokemon out. When Rain isn't up, you're sweepers are practically food for the common offensive team. So yea, 4 sweepers is a lot to "beat", but the point isn't to "beat" them, it's to stop them and drill the Rain Dance team when Rain isn't up. That's mainly what I was trying to get at in the post. "hinder their sweep, and then beat them when Rain ends".
That's the thing though. The common rain team is:

Electrode->Gorebyss->Ludicolo|endrain|Uxie/Qwilfish/Kabutops ....with maybe a few differences in playstyle/team building

I think most rain teams go suicidal after the first 8 turns have passed, then go to their bulky setup and proceed to rape you with their last two mons. There's no "proceed to rape when rain ends". After the first set of rain ends, you're in for another 8 turns. Hinder them another 8 turns and you've won, but ONLY then.

Basically, you're in for at least 14 turns of rain offense on almost any rain team. And when each poke has the capability of 3HKOing everything in the game while outspeeding most everything, that means death.
 
That's the thing though. The common rain team is:

Electrode->Gorebyss->Ludicolo|endrain|Uxie/Qwilfish/Kabutops ....with maybe a few differences in playstyle/team building

I think most rain teams go suicidal after the first 8 turns have passed, then go to their bulky setup and proceed to rape you with their last two mons. There's no "proceed to rape when rain ends". After the first set of rain ends, you're in for another 8 turns. Hinder them another 8 turns and you've won, but ONLY then.

Basically, you're in for at least 14 turns of rain offense on almost any rain team. And when each poke has the capability of 3HKOing everything in the game while outspeeding most everything, that means death.

A smart player will rarely ever let you set up Rain twice, unless they are doing something like setting up a Substitute with Raikou or Missy, which actually allows them to stall out 5-6 turns of Rain, KOing a Pokemon on the last turn. Otherwise they can just go to a Taunter and stop it from happening in the first place.

I stand by my "survive a round of Rain, then drill them" tactic. 4 sweepers? 1 Sweeper? 6 Sweepers? It's practically all the same for an offensive team. If Rain is up, you are in trouble. When it isn't, finish them off because there are many many Pokemon who simply beat every Rain Dance sweeper (Raikou, Toxicroak, Venusaur, Sceptile, etc).

There would be so many more Pokemon that do this if Kabutops and Qwilfish didn't exist though, Aqua Jet screws with priority.
 
Some thoughts on fighting rain teams:

Trick-Scarf leads like Uxie help a lot, since your opponent is only getting 5 turns of rain if he leads with Rain Dance, and none if he doesn't (many Electrode will lead with Taunt if you can't OHKO them). Many Rain supporters have a plan for getting their sweeper in without damage, such as Explosion, U-turn, and Lunar Dance, and Trick will stop them from doing these things, as well. Both Uxie and Froslass can use Trick and Thunder Wave, so they can easily Trick Electrode or Ambipom and then spam Thunder Wave until something comes in. Trick leads have a good chance of starting the match by crippling one supporter and one sweeper right off the bat. You can further cripple a sweeper by tricking them a Damp Rock, but this is usually only worth while if you intend to sacrifice your Trick user that turn.

Encore can work in a similar way to Trick, foiling the support pokemon's "exit strategy" and giving yourself a free turn to hurt the sweeper that he now has to just switch in on its own. This is especially great with Pokemon who can set up a Substitute as your opponent switches, such as Azumarill, Poliwrath, and Raichu. Encore is nice, but just having Substitute and the ability to cause a lot of damage can help against Rain teams. Pokemon like Rhyperior and Aggron can get their sub up against Registeel or Uxie and take out an enemy sweeper as they break the sub. Also keep in mind that any pokemon with Substitute can stall out half of the rain if you can get the sub up first.

This was touched on earlier, but bulky users of Thunder Wave are your friends. Uxie and Slowbro come to mind, as well as Chansey, Clefable, Cresselia, Lanturn, Porygon 2, and any Regis, to name some. Once you paralyze a sweeper, you can either revenge it or take advantage of it's paralysis or a possible switch to stall out the rain.

Those are just some ideas, a lot more have already been mentioned in the thread. Try to find a use for every teammate in a Rain situation - for instance, anything with Substitute or Thunder Wave is useful against Rain, period.

My main team looks like this:
Venasuar, Articuno, Hitmontop (spinner, not priority), Moltres, Rhyperior, Cloyster. That probably doesn't sound like a team that can stand against Rain all that well, but with some creativity I've managed to get it to work. Venasuar is obvious, as he can take hits from the Special sweepers and retaliate with Grass attacks or Sleep Powder. Articuno can wall special Ludicolo pretty comfortably with Roost and can usually wall the other Special Sweepers long enough for Rain to go away. Hitmontop basically can take 1 hit from something and retaliate with a Fighting attack, often dispatching Omastar and Kabutops. Moltres comes in on a supporter and Subs up. Depending on what happens next, he can Poison and stall a sweeper, or just stall out half of the Rain with Sub, with Toxic as a parting gift. Rhyperior is really useful, using Substitute against supporters and then pummeling the sweepers from behind it. Finally, Cloyster walls Qwilfish and Floatzel to Timbuktu and can even survive a Stone Edge from Kabutops at full health, and can retaliate back with boosted Surfs. This is meant to be an example of how you can beat Rain without going to extremes. As shaky as all of this sounds, I win against Rain more often than not. I'm not saying you can all suddenly decimate Rain without changing your teams, but give some thought to how each member of your team can play a role, no matter how small.
 
While I agree with most of wiat you say Heysup,

I d sooner ban damp rock over kabutops. Banning tops isnt really fair to people who use tops outside of RD.
 
!'s guide to Rain Dance (and the metagame):

Use Venusaur-Registeel-Slowbro-Raikou-Reliable Taunter-Cress Check

Venusaur Lead is beyond obvious but, lead with Sleep Powder.
RegiBro is mauled by Rhyperior, Venusaur, Trick-users... but is a formidable walling combo.
Raikou's best set is his SleepTalk set. Use it.
You have a choice of using Ambipom or Froslass. Both are effective Taunters.
Best way to check Cress is to be faster or taunt it as it switches in, Immune to T-wave, and able to hit it supereffectively. Easy right?

The team is incredibly weak to stacking entry hazards, Trick-P-Z, and Venusuar.

End guide!

On another note, RAIN IS BEATABLE we fucking know that already. You guys are looking for a single Pokemon to beat an entire play-style. That is just absurd in my mind. And seriously, what answers do you expect to receive from testing a ban on Damp Rock? Rain teams are not that common from the get go and even if that does change during the test people will be using more specific checks to beat rain than they normally would. Which I suppose would then be considered 'normal' but there is some kind of fault there that I cannot put my finger on.

Ban the stupid rock and lets move on.

No don't ban anything Rain is NOT broken. My point is that nearly everyone winging about it has made a team that has no thought about rain at all. The most broken Pokemon IMO is Moltres in Sun. It can 2 K.O the best special wall with Rock's down. That is Broken and it is something no RD sweeper can do without going specs and becoming pure setup bait.
 
A lot of this reminds me of the Garchomp debate. People said he was broken, people said he could be countered, but when push came to shove and the suspect test went down, people were happy to see a 'chompless metagame. My personal vote is to suspect test Damp Rock and see how interesting the games start being without
I seriously fought like 5 rain teams in a row. I guess people think it's the easy way up the ladder.
Having a single, simple dominating style is a clear sign of a screwed-up metagame.
 
Why are none talking about Ludicolo? Kabutops really isn't that much better than him.

I agree. Ludicolo is the one that keeps some RD threats away. Gardevoir would happily Thunderbolt every Swift Swimmer to death... if it wasn't for Ludicolo. That's just a example.
Kabutops has power, Ludicolo has typing. Without Ludicolo, Rain teams would be much easier to handle. With or without Kabutops.
 
I've always found that Charm Blissey in OU is a complete full stop against Rain Dance teams - it was as simple as coming in on the special attacker and then Charming physical switch-ins to stall out the rain. It's a shame that Chansey's SpA is unusable and Seismic Toss is illegal alongside Charm because she could have done a similar job in UU.

Also, I noticed Heysup's list was missing a very effective counter to Rain; Screens. In the turn that the opponent sets up Rain you can be throwing up a Light Screen and that's very likely to make the opponent mutter something rude under his breath.

I vehemently oppose the idea of nerfing/banning an entire playstyle unless it's broken beyond all doubt and Rain has never fallen into that category for me (in fact, I found Hail far more annoying in the last test).
 
I've always found that Charm Blissey in OU is a complete full stop against Rain Dance teams - it was as simple as coming in on the special attacker and then Charming physical switch-ins to stall out the rain. It's a shame that Chansey's SpA is unusable and Seismic Toss is illegal alongside Charm because she could have done a similar job in UU.

Charm Blissey seems like a nice counter. Although i'd not run it as Rain isn't common at all in OU.
 
I agree. Ludicolo is the one that keeps some RD threats away. Gardevoir would happily Thunderbolt every Swift Swimmer to death... if it wasn't for Ludicolo. That's just a example.
Kabutops has power, Ludicolo has typing. Without Ludicolo, Rain teams would be much easier to handle. With or without Kabutops.

Care to explain?

I don't see how neutrality to one of the least relevant attacks (Thunderbolt) on a Rain Dance team (only commonly used by Raikou, who beats Ludicolo if it switches in regardless; Grass is a far more valuable neutrality but Qwilfish covers that as well) outweighs the fact that Kabutops beats:

Blaziken
Hitmontop
Swellow (WITHOUT RAIN)
Venusaur
Choice Scarf Moltres, and still beats LO Moltres without Rain
Snover (important for rain)
Arcanine
Spiritomb
Chansey
Registeel (albeit Kabutops get paralyzed unless it runs Lum Berry)
Choice Scarf Pokemon
Uxie
Cresselia
Mesprit
Honchkrow

(Note: I don't mean mean that other Pokemon simply cannot beat these Pokemon, I am merely stating that Kabutops has a much easier time doing so. There are many in this list that only Kabutops can beat though)

Etc.

Ludicolo stops....Choice Scarf Gardevoir? Well guess what:

+2 Kabutop's Aqua Jet vs Gardevoir: 130.9% - 154.7%

Yea, Gardevoir is covered by Kabutops as well.

My reasoning for Kabutops (and to lesser extent, Qwilfish) being "too powerful" is that it covers SO many of the usual, and otherwise plausible Rain Dance counters. It is also the only Rain Dance Pokemon that functions without the Rain.

@ Lee:

Yea, I forgot to list screens. Probably because I don't use them, and that they will be hard to set up against something like Electrode.
 
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