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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
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Personally, I've only struggled with Cresselia whenever I ran with an all-out offense team. The Calm Mind + Substitute set presents no real threat unless it gets at least 2-3 Calm Minds Up, while all other sets are really only good at supporting. From my experience with an offense team, I would argue that it fits the Defensive characteristic. However, if anyone knows my account (not revealing it yet, but I'm in top 10), I've been running a stall team which really doesn't need to attack, so I've been unable to really make much of Cresselia as a defensive threat.
My biggest complaints, however, are Moltres and Porygon-Z. Moltres is ridiculously hard to switch into, being able to 2HKO pretty much the whole metagame, bar Clefable and Chansey (and possibly Specially Defensive Altaria O_o), with just one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock. Porygon-Z pretty much rips through slower teams with a Nasty Plot boost, although I haven't seen it present a big threat to more offensive paced teams.
I actually disagree. I think that requiring users to write a nomination paragraph is important to weed out players who obviously haven't had much experience with the Pokemon they are nominating and are just nominating for the heck of it. However, I do think there is an issue with having to write both a nomination paragraph and a voting qualifier paragraph. I agree that the nomination paragraph should be able to be substituted for the essay if the nominated Pokemon indeed becomes a suspect.
My biggest complaints, however, are Moltres and Porygon-Z. Moltres is ridiculously hard to switch into, being able to 2HKO pretty much the whole metagame, bar Clefable and Chansey (and possibly Specially Defensive Altaria O_o), with just one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock. Porygon-Z pretty much rips through slower teams with a Nasty Plot boost, although I haven't seen it present a big threat to more offensive paced teams.
I actually disagree. I think that requiring users to write a nomination paragraph is important to weed out players who obviously haven't had much experience with the Pokemon they are nominating and are just nominating for the heck of it. However, I do think there is an issue with having to write both a nomination paragraph and a voting qualifier paragraph. I agree that the nomination paragraph should be able to be substituted for the essay if the nominated Pokemon indeed becomes a suspect.
So the voting starts today?
Agreed Dr. House, and that's why I honestly think Moltres will be brought up as a suspect even when Froslass is gone (re: hopefully next stage). Even though others spikers such as Omastar and Cloyster aren't as effective performing their setups, mainly due to lacking Ghost typing and thus demanding another Ghost poké to back them up, the possibility of setup is still there and the condition for Moltres' sweep hasn't been removed at all.
I highly doubt that people would nominate pokes just because they hate that poke. The players that obviously aren't taking this seriously (nominating Donphan or something) will just have their post deleted. The reason for not doing nomination paragraphs would be so that we wouldn't have a repeat situation on froslass and raikou. Either noms need to be private or there should be no nom paragraphs. (which are redundant anyways.)
ps: kingler owns
I definitely agree with Flashstorm when he says that Moltres is almost impossible to switch into. Pretty much any spiker will get at least one layer of spikes down, which is all Moltres really needs. Though I have seen a rise in specially defensive Altaria lately, which is annoying.
also, I agree with Roflkip. I honestly don't really see the need for nomination paragraphs when we are gonna write the same exact thing but more in depth later. We already know the suspects, why can't we just go to the paragraphs right away?
also, I agree with Roflkip. I honestly don't really see the need for nomination paragraphs when we are gonna write the same exact thing but more in depth later. We already know the suspects, why can't we just go to the paragraphs right away?
Wait, how's that fair? What you are saying that if anyone nominates anything apart from the "obvious" suspects, then their nomination is invalid?
If a person truly believes that Donphan is worthy of being suspect, and is able to back it up with good reasoning, then there is no reason why his nomination should not be accepted.
Honestly, I like the idea of substituting nomination paragraph for a suspect essay if a suspect gets nominated. I really don't want to see people nominate stupid shit like Registeel just because they can't deal with it, which would easily happen if no paragraphs were required, but at the same time I agree that the current process is annoyingly redundant. To me, the paragraph/essay substitution method seems like a fair and pragmatic solution.
To be honest, while i understand why "paragraphs" are required, expecting people to write a full blown essay for each and every suspect is a step too far in my opinion. If i want to vote for Froslass/Cress/PZ/damp rock, i want to write four solid paragraphs (i.e 4 x one block of text), not my life story (>1000 words).
I actually agree with you (*GASP*), but I was just trying to explain the possible reason "why".
I think there are definitely going to be enough people for Froslass to at least get a simple majority. I have seen very few people even make valid points against the BL arguments. Always think positive.
Fuck Froslass.
Yea but similarly if you NEED 2400+ words to get your point across, use 2400+ words. I mean, I needed every word in my essay to get my point across.
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I actually have a question I thought of PMing to reach earlier but it applies to more people than just myself so I'll ask here:
What about people who have "voted" for said suspects already? I mean, do I really need to write a new Froslass paragraph even though the arguments have barely changed at all? It would make sense if we could just send in a couple paragraphs explaining why our previous arguments still apply but I'm not sure how you guys are doing it.
Thanks.
The evidence for any of pokes that aren't "obvious suspects" is miniscule. If anyone can make a valid case for why Milotic or Venusaur is BL, they're argument might have some valid points but pretty much everyone agrees that Venusaur is not broken in any way. To be honest, I don't really understand what the nomination process accomplishes anyways...
Uh, we have to write one for every suspect? I only wrote one for Porygon-Z and Raikou...
And when is the deadline?
Write the ones that you want to write for, you can abstain on the rest (just note that in your PM).
That's what everyone thought last round.
Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat as me ...
I don't have any strong opinions about any particular Pokemon. For example, I still think Froslass doesn't deserve BL (I may make further posts in that thread another day; I have very little time at the moment) and Raikou should be BL, but I don't really care what happens to them. If Froslass goes to BL and Raikou stays in UU, so be it. I can adapt. If Froslass stays UU and Raikou goes BL, that's fine as well. I can adapt.
At this point I'm even beginning to think that, even if there were no strong arguments for Cresselia / Froslass going to BL, it'd be good to move them to BL anyway because so many people strongly dislike them, but not many people (not that have posted here anyway) are strongly in favour of keeping them in UU. If it pleases the majority, why not?
I don't have any strong opinions about any particular Pokemon. For example, I still think Froslass doesn't deserve BL (I may make further posts in that thread another day; I have very little time at the moment) and Raikou should be BL, but I don't really care what happens to them. If Froslass goes to BL and Raikou stays in UU, so be it. I can adapt. If Froslass stays UU and Raikou goes BL, that's fine as well. I can adapt.
At this point I'm even beginning to think that, even if there were no strong arguments for Cresselia / Froslass going to BL, it'd be good to move them to BL anyway because so many people strongly dislike them, but not many people (not that have posted here anyway) are strongly in favour of keeping them in UU. If it pleases the majority, why not?
Never underestimate people's capacity to vote something UU. Vote for both of them.
@ Erazor:
What exactly does your "yes you can" apply to? Like, does it mean I can just explain why my arguments that were previously outlined still apply?
Eh. I didn't used to think Froslass was BL, it seemed underwhelming, and it's spikes, while good, weren't THAT good. I mean, it only got 2 layers or 1 layer + possible kill up every time right?
Well, this period surprised me. Firstly came the Froslass/Moltres combo, and secondly (well this was more LAST period but still) was the hail set. Yeah, Lass is BL.
I still can't see for the life of me why people think Raikou is though.
Well, this period surprised me. Firstly came the Froslass/Moltres combo, and secondly (well this was more LAST period but still) was the hail set. Yeah, Lass is BL.
I still can't see for the life of me why people think Raikou is though.
So can Scyther and Aggron and Houndoom and Feraligatr and anything mildly threatening. Any sweeper sweeps a team when its checks are removed.
More like raikou has very limited checks...and certain pokes are added to team's to stop raikou while most ppl dont take into consideration of other sweepers unless there teams is weak to them
EDIT: O and btw I wanted to raise a pretty noobish question, but it just got me wondering...What makes a poke OU now-a-days? Is it because of the usage in OU or because they are too good for UU? An example I would like to bring up is dusknior. Dusknior is good in OU but i would say losing alot of usage to Rotom-A. In UU, I dont see it being a threat at all...A great spin blocker but sitll very limited like spiritomb, just with a Higher attack and better physical moves. Still even then, with the abudance of strong dark types in UU I find dusknior's role to be a spin blocker very difficult....then again I'm just raising the question of what makes a certain pokemon OU when they cannot do to well in UU? (And with dusknior i just layed an overall picture, it can DEFINTELY go deeper into discussion with dusknior)
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