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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
- Start date
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PGZ sees less discussion than Cresselia because Cresselia is utterly broken while PGZ is only possibly broken. I don't know what's been the delay with the "let's hasten the suspect process" thing, but it's not going to be pleasant if we kick Cress out just in time for shit like Hippodowon or Heracross to drop down, because then suspects whose brokeness is debatable (Froslass, Raikou, PGZ) will never get any attention.
I never got all the discussion about rain being broken. Maybe it's because I have a water absorber, but I have fun playing against rain teams because of all the prediction games involved. It's certainly much less "broken" as a playstyle than hail stall and infinitely less annoying. But I've never used a rain team...maybe I should build one. It'll probably do better than the current NU gimmick team I've been testing.
Speaking of which, Gligar definitely needs more love. I use this set (bolded is mine, slashed in is a viable option):
Gligar @ Leftovers/Yache Berry
Jolly
252 ATK, 216 SPE, 40 HP
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/X-scissor
-Baton Pass
Outruns +80s and below. Similar to Leafeon, except Earthquake and Stone Edge/X-scissor is much better coverage than Grass and Normal. Is really fun on a physically-based offensive team, because you can Swords Dance up and either beat up the switch-in or Baton Pass to a counter. I personally use this in tandem with Flash Fire Arcanine (deals with WoW and Ice attacks) and Poliwrath (Water and Ice attacks).
I never got all the discussion about rain being broken. Maybe it's because I have a water absorber, but I have fun playing against rain teams because of all the prediction games involved. It's certainly much less "broken" as a playstyle than hail stall and infinitely less annoying. But I've never used a rain team...maybe I should build one. It'll probably do better than the current NU gimmick team I've been testing.
Speaking of which, Gligar definitely needs more love. I use this set (bolded is mine, slashed in is a viable option):
Gligar @ Leftovers/Yache Berry
Jolly
252 ATK, 216 SPE, 40 HP
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/X-scissor
-Baton Pass
Outruns +80s and below. Similar to Leafeon, except Earthquake and Stone Edge/X-scissor is much better coverage than Grass and Normal. Is really fun on a physically-based offensive team, because you can Swords Dance up and either beat up the switch-in or Baton Pass to a counter. I personally use this in tandem with Flash Fire Arcanine (deals with WoW and Ice attacks) and Poliwrath (Water and Ice attacks).
The rest of the team usually can beat them, however. The thing about breaking Cresselia is that you can't attempt it in a vacuum--you have to deal with the rest of Cresselia's team as well, and that means that being paralyzed often means that you are crippled--for instance, switching a non-Lum Drapion into a Thunder Wave means that Swords Dancing will only leave you confronted with a "faster" Rhyperior....effectively neutering Drapion. Part of the problem with dealing with Cresselia is that Pokemon isn't a one-on-one game, and a number of Pokemon that could beat it one on one will very rarely be given an opportunity to do so.
Oh, that actually sounds pretty interesting. I've been using a Specs one and it hasn't been doing that bad. It hits really hard and can shrug off most neutral special attacks with ease.
Why is CM cress always the one mentioned? Cress wasn't made to be a sweeper. The Stall teams with resttalk Cress are what's annoying as you can't toxic stall it and it's just a plane bitch to take down
Funnily enough, I was about to toss out an opinion on P-Z.
This is the set I use:
Porygon-Z @ Lum Berry
Ability: Download
EV's: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- HP Fightin
This was mentioned earlier as an antilead. I used it as such for a while before realizing that it doesn't stop Frosslass (Probably the most important antilead job in UU) and put in in the middle of my team as a special sweeper.
My verdict? Porygon-Z is good. Pretty darned good. But not broken. Now, its defenses aren't as bad as popularly held, but it still goes down very quickly. Priority kills the sucker, badly.
I'm not gonna go deep into the numbers, but a few examples: Mixed Priority Blaziken's Vacuum Wave deals 68.2% - 81%. TechniTop Mach Punch deals 98.4% - 115.8%. LO Ambipom Fake Out deals 46.3% - 55%. Anything with priority can force a switch. And priority is rife in UU. Besides, you really can't switch into anything.
I want to put in that priority isn't Porygon-Z's only problem. It's a wallbreaker, but there are pokes like Spiritomb and Registeel that can take the hits and fire back for massive damage.
Again, I'm going to say that P-Z is very good in UU. It's difficult but not impossible to take it down unscathed. But it's got its safe switch-ins, and its defenses suck. Good wallbreaker? Heck yes. But it does not have the speed or the stats to successfully sweep. It's reminds me of the scarfed Rampardos I had on my team - It'll do a lot of damage, but it's not sticking around long.
As an aside, I totally support banning Rain Dance. That's broken in a way that Ray Charles could spot a mile off.
This is the set I use:
Porygon-Z @ Lum Berry
Ability: Download
EV's: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Moveset:
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- HP Fightin
This was mentioned earlier as an antilead. I used it as such for a while before realizing that it doesn't stop Frosslass (Probably the most important antilead job in UU) and put in in the middle of my team as a special sweeper.
My verdict? Porygon-Z is good. Pretty darned good. But not broken. Now, its defenses aren't as bad as popularly held, but it still goes down very quickly. Priority kills the sucker, badly.
I'm not gonna go deep into the numbers, but a few examples: Mixed Priority Blaziken's Vacuum Wave deals 68.2% - 81%. TechniTop Mach Punch deals 98.4% - 115.8%. LO Ambipom Fake Out deals 46.3% - 55%. Anything with priority can force a switch. And priority is rife in UU. Besides, you really can't switch into anything.
I want to put in that priority isn't Porygon-Z's only problem. It's a wallbreaker, but there are pokes like Spiritomb and Registeel that can take the hits and fire back for massive damage.
Again, I'm going to say that P-Z is very good in UU. It's difficult but not impossible to take it down unscathed. But it's got its safe switch-ins, and its defenses suck. Good wallbreaker? Heck yes. But it does not have the speed or the stats to successfully sweep. It's reminds me of the scarfed Rampardos I had on my team - It'll do a lot of damage, but it's not sticking around long.
As an aside, I totally support banning Rain Dance. That's broken in a way that Ray Charles could spot a mile off.
I dont see anything wrong with switching out from the priority users...how easy it is to see those moves coming...
Rain Dance is situational...You have the biggest advantage against teams that are RD weak.. while on the flip-side some teams can easily stop RD teams, which can give them a no-brainer victory..but i would say RD teams are by no way near broken
I agree with this, however I don't think it applies to Cresselia more than any other Pokemon.
For example, Slowbro does the same thing essentially (checks less threats maybe, but still uses Thunder Wave and is Psychic-type). From an offensive standpoint, I would rather be against Cresselia since it will likely give you a free turn to set up a Pokemon like Absol, Drapion (Taunt SD is necessary imo), Porygon-EZ, Blaziken (non Psychic variants), Houndoom, Raikou, Mismagius, Rhyperior etc where as Slowbro is much more difficult to set up on because of its excellent base SpA and Water-type secondary STAB attack. I also can't outstall its Moonlight with Pressure.
From a defensive standpoint, Cresselia is much better, only weak to Dark, Ghost, and Bug, while also boasting a immunity to Ground. Does this overshadow its lack of offensive stats / good STAB-typing? I don't believe it does, but I could see how some people do.
This is why I think Cresselia is comfortably UU. Defensively: Far superior to almost any other Pokemon, including Slowbro. Offensively: Far shittier than almost any other Pokemon, where as Slowbro has respectable SpA and STAB moves (stops at least 15-20 Pokemon from setting up that Cresselia can't). This balances it out, at least imo.
So, I've briefly been using rain dance...and if how easy it is to win with a playstyle is an indication of how broken that playstyle is, then I'll say that rain dance is pretty bloody broken. Even with my typically horrendous luck (i.e. misses, multiple full paralysis, crits, the usual) I win most of the time and when I lose it's usually 1-0 or 2-0. Now, this is only over a period of 15 games or so, but still...and this is with a team I threw together in less than 5 minutes, mind you.
The star of the team has definitely been Gorebyss so far. Something funny:
Gorebyss used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Leafeon lost 100% of its health.
The star of the team has definitely been Gorebyss so far. Something funny:
Gorebyss used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Leafeon lost 100% of its health.
Just out of curiosity, what are these Pokemon you speak of that can reliably set up on Cresselia? The only ones I can think of in UU are Curse Umbreon, Calm Mind Spiritomb and some weird Encore Clefable that also sets up. But guess what: those guys can set up equally well on Slowbro. Missy and Raikou are 'semi'-reliable, but even than Slowbro is worse off with its weakness to both their STABs and far inferior special defense.
You also missed out the fact that Cresselia can viably run a SubCM set, which allows for setup on those Seismic Toss / Toxic wielding special walls like Chansey and Registeel without resorting to Rest. The special attack difference is also of little consequence for the most part, unless you're using a Slowbro with more than 273 special attack. This is because Cresselia is so naturally bulky that Slowbro's physical bulk can be nearly equalled with only half the EVs, leaving the rest to pump up Special Attack beyond defensive Slowbro's level. And believe me, more than 400 special attack after one boost is not 'far shittier than almost any other Pokemon', especially when Cresselia can actually outrun some things, is not OHKO'd by any attack, and is in fact only 2HKO'd by certain super-effective moves off a very high attack, often requiring STAB.
Was in my post that you quoted -_-:
Heysup said:
Raikou and Mismagius have more trouble with Slowbro because they need to get a boost before their Sub can be 2HKOed rather than OHKOed by Slowbro. With Cresselia, only a minor investment is required.
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I don't mean to sound snarky, but if you had read the previous posts, you would realize that reachzero was in fact talking about Thunder Wave variants of Cresselia.
You can't compare Slowbro to SubCM Cresselia.
Absol - OHKO'd by +1 Signal Beam or HP Fighting, regardless of hazards. Even HP Ground does about 35-40%, as an indication of how frail this guy is.
Drapion - offensive variants are OHKO'd by +1 HP Ground with SR, which is the only variant likely to set up in the first place. Even the bulkiest atre 2HKO'd at +1, and they don't hit back very hard whilst running the risk of being outpaced.
Porygon-Z - Psychic or HP Fighting 2HKOs at +1, possibly OHKOing 4 / 0 variants if slightly weakened when coming in. P-Z's attacks don't hurt +1 Cresselia much unboosted.
Blaziken - Lol. A CM Cresselia without Psychic is not a good Cresselia in my book.
Houndoom - +1 HP Ground OHKOs with SR.
Raikou - +1 HP Grounds really hurt, and Raikou needs a lot of boosts to start seriously hurting Cress. But she can keep Calm Minding up alongside it, and guess who has access to a recovery option?
Mismagius - hurt more than Raikou with +1 Psychics. Shadow Ball barely 3HKOs +1 Cress without boosts, so not even +2 Shadow Ball OHKOs. This is the most plausible one yet, but only semi-reliable at best.
Rhyperior - +1 Psychic 2HKOs, Life Orb Megahorn does not OHKO back.
Really? Because max Special Attack Cress has more power behind its Psychic than bulky Slowbro does. And like I said before, Cresselia can afford to invest heavily in its Special Attack unlike Slowbro. Also, Cress is more likely to stay in after CM on the switch. It takes a lot of balls (or desperation) to keep Slowbro in against either, with a boost or not.
No, but it is another viable and threatening setup available to Cresselia that you have to be prepared for, whilst still able to fulfill the Slowbro-esque role equally well. A lot of things that easily deal with CM / Moonlight variants are helpless against Cresselia's often unbreakable Substitute. This is an important point whether you think so or not.
Also, I don't care what set reachzero was talking about. It is Cresselia in general that is the issue at hand, and besides, I believe that Thunder Wave Cress is best off complimented with Reflect and Zen Headbutt. Go figure. I also don't care much for what 'most' people decide to use either.
Well the first problem I have with this is, as I have stated previously:
Heysup said:
I am responding to reachzero about Thunder Wave variants of Cresselia. I know you probably don't care, but really I don't know what or who you're arguing about/with, because I have not said anything about CM Cresselia. Except for pointing out that I'm not talking about CM Cresselia, that is. I guess I might as well address that one thing while I'm here though.
Second, how does your Cresselia learn Signal Beam, Hidden Power Fighting, Hidden Power Ground, Calm Mind, Substitute, and Moonlight? Again, I'm not arguing about CM Cresselia, but I really don't see your point here. How does Cresselia differ from Pokemon like Raikou who was deemed UU this vote? "It beats these Pokemon with this moveset and those Pokemon with this moveset"
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I disagree with the bolded part. A CM Cresselia does not do the same thing Slowbro or Thunder Wave Cresselia does.
However I agree with the rest of this paragraph. Who are you arguing with?
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Ok, that's cool, but I'd prefer if you didn't argue with my post on a completely different issue unrelated to the one I was responding to. Reachzero said how he thinks Cresselia is possibly broken because of Thunder Wave and the fact that Cresselia does have 5 other team members. I was replying to him about Thunder Wave Cresselia being almost = to Thunder Wave Slowbro, and Slowbro being more offensively threatening because of its high SpA and Water STAB. Then you responded to me about....Calm Mind Cresselia beating a fair amount of the examples of Thunder Wave Cresselia counters...do you see what I'm getting at? I did not say anything pertaining to Calm Mind Cresselia because the argument simply does not apply. Calm Mind Cresselia does not support its team like the Thunder Wave variant, which is what I was addressing.
Well I don’t think Cresselia is broken for any individual set, it is all about the whole package. If I am arguing such an irrelevant point here, please explain to me what you meant by this:
So are you saying that Cresselia is comfortably UU simply because her Thunder Wave set isn't broken? Or are you sticking to the argument presented here, that Cresselia fails to prevent 15-20 Pokemon from setting up offensively? If the latter, you had better back this up with your supposed 15-20 Pokemon, because I have already shown why your previous 8 examples don't work. Cresselia can be built to have just as much physical bulk and special attacking output as Slowbro, and only really needs Psychic and HP Ground to cover just about anything that matters.
Several reasons actually. One is that Cresselia's stat distribution and access to recovery makes it much more versatile than Raikou, to the point where there is no simple solution for dealing with her. Very little can take her out in 1 or 2 hits, and she can be built to last at least as long (often longer) then all her checks and counters. In addition, she has two different but viable and threatening methods of boosting offense, and only a very select few Pokemon (and with a specific moveset) can deal with both without running into trouble. Not so with Raikou, what do the likes of Registeel, Chansey, Umbreon etc care if Raikou is running SubCM or an offensive Life Orb set? And why would Dugtrio care either way? They don't, and that makes Raikou more predictable and manageable.
No, I am saying that Cresselia can also run a T-Wave + recovery + two attacks set equally well. You use Slowbro if you need the Water / Fire resists and your team has the Grass / Electric weaknesses well covered. Cresselia is better if you want the better mixed wall with less exploitable weaknesses.
This. I've never hated Rain dance so much in my life.
It's been mentioned a few times but RD would be much more manageable with it lasting for 5 turns.
Finally someone who wholeheartedly agrees with me. Rain Dance is broken and its "too easy". I've peaked at #2 with a Rain Dance team without difficulty. While it may sound a bit cocky, the point is, I got up to #2 far too easy than I ever would. Like FlareBlitz said, even with hax, you still have a good chance of winning.
I agree with all that's been said here. Rain Dance is too easy to use and too easy to win with.
Just let me ask something: How the hell do i "my position" on the UU ladder??
Nonetheess: Rain Dance teams are good because they tear apart the standard pokes nowadays(which 90% of the battlers use). I mean, there's not many UU pokes that can handle Rain...
Toxicroak has a hard time getting a NP, and still isn't getting past Uxie(which almost every RD team use).
Milotic can endure for a little... but not forever.
Registeel can paralize/Explode on one poke and nothing else.
Chansey hates Kabutops/Qwilfish.
Everything else has huge problems with RD teams... and those fire pokes are rendered useless against a RD team.
Unless you use a novelty poke(Scarf Sceptile?), switch predict to stall the rain, or have more than one poke to deal with RD teams, you're likely to lose.
Mind you, i'm talking about UU pokes. And those are the standard ones that 90% of the time you will be facing.
I believe that some NU pokes has more success against RD teams(Gardevoir? Golduck? Hey, even Articuno can Toxic stall something if you predict right)... but they are NU for a reason.
So yes, RD teams can be too much to handle, but i don't think they're broken. My team doesn't really care about RD teams. But hey, my team is my team...
Nonetheess: Rain Dance teams are good because they tear apart the standard pokes nowadays(which 90% of the battlers use). I mean, there's not many UU pokes that can handle Rain...
Toxicroak has a hard time getting a NP, and still isn't getting past Uxie(which almost every RD team use).
Milotic can endure for a little... but not forever.
Registeel can paralize/Explode on one poke and nothing else.
Chansey hates Kabutops/Qwilfish.
Everything else has huge problems with RD teams... and those fire pokes are rendered useless against a RD team.
Unless you use a novelty poke(Scarf Sceptile?), switch predict to stall the rain, or have more than one poke to deal with RD teams, you're likely to lose.
Mind you, i'm talking about UU pokes. And those are the standard ones that 90% of the time you will be facing.
I believe that some NU pokes has more success against RD teams(Gardevoir? Golduck? Hey, even Articuno can Toxic stall something if you predict right)... but they are NU for a reason.
So yes, RD teams can be too much to handle, but i don't think they're broken. My team doesn't really care about RD teams. But hey, my team is my team...
Your point was not irrelevant, but your method of proving my points wrong was, because it plain and simply didn't apply to that Cresselia set.
Anyway, I think you need to explain that bolded statement more and justify why it's true. What constitutes a "whole package"? Every possible set? There are few Pokemon who don't cover every Pokemon with every set. I don't think "Cresselia can use <A Moveset> to beat <XPokemon> but lose to <Y Pokemon>, and it can also use <B moveset> to beat <Y Pokemon> while it now loses to <X Pokemon>" is unique to Cresselia at all.
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
No you haven't. When did you show my Thunder Wave Cresselia (with only 4 moves...) counters don't work? All I see are my counters losing to a Cresselia with CM / Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground / Signal Beam / Psychic / Substitute / Moonlight w/ Timid + Modest nature and 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe / etc.
Even a standard CM Cresselia (Moonlight, 2 attacks, Calm Mind, slow) loses to most of those examples, however the point is not that it loses to CM Cresselia, but that it beats Thunder Wave Cresselia, which directly relates to Slowbro's role. In any event, I'm done trying to explain that I was talking about Thunder Wave Cresselia.
If you want me to come up with a list of Pokemon that beat Cresselia most of the time, give me a single set (4 moves, 510 EVs, etc). Otherwise you can just be like "No this variant beats that counter". If that were the case, then Aggron (for example) would be surely broken. It can easily beat Milotic and company with a Head Smash on the switch, even though CB is stopped by Torterra / Rhyperior / Steelix....who are beaten by SubPunch + Magnet Rise...and so on. In fact, this pertains to Raikou even MORE than Cresselia. Sub Calm Mind beats a significant portion of the metagame. Restalk Calm Mind beats Registeel, Chansey, etc. Shuca beats Dugtrio. There are barely any Pokemon that can beat "every" Raikou set.
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
You are forgetting the increasingly popular Restalk Calm Mind Raikou set, which beats Chansey, Registeel, and Umbreon. They do care if its running SubCM or Restalk. Raikou has more than two viable ways of boosting offense, so is Raikou broken? If Raikou was deemed BL, i would definitely understand Cresselia being deemed BL, but otherwise it just seems inconsistent to me.
And Duggy, as I have pointed out, loses to Shuca and if it switches in on a Sub w/ Entry hazards.
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I must have misunderstood this then:
Lemmwinks MkII said:
Whilst, to me, implies that it is doing something while it is doing another thing. Again, I could have easily misunderstood that, my mistake if I did.
@ Rain Dance:
I see what people are saying about it being "too easy" but the point is that it is so easily manageable if you are not "weak" to rain dance. I mean, every team that have RegiBro on it will not have that much trouble with Rain, since Registeel and Slowbro can just come in on the revenge kill or whatever attack and Thunder Wave.
Kabutops is threatening though, it is horrifying in the Rain.
Lets hear more opinions on Rain Dance teams... or at least Damp Rock. It is brought up every metagame and nothing is ever done about it. Ban the stupid rock see if our assumptions are true. I'm sure that many won't argue against it.
I don't wanna test it but how about...
Cress @ Damp Rock
Rain Dance
Lunar Dance
Reflect
Light Screen
With...
SD Kabutops
That would just be to much. To much pain... and perhaps to much setup. Although, Reflect and Light Screen are just secondary options.
I don't wanna test it but how about...
Cress @ Damp Rock
Rain Dance
Lunar Dance
Reflect
Light Screen
With...
SD Kabutops
That would just be to much. To much pain... and perhaps to much setup. Although, Reflect and Light Screen are just secondary options.
Honestly, rain isn't that hard to counter. You have things like Registeel who can paralyze things and basically neuter them, and you have things like Milotic who can outstall special rain sweepers. Venusaur can handle rain decently and he's 1 on the UU usage statistics. Would three less turns make that much of a difference? If Damp Rock was gone, I'm assuming the bulkier rain set-ups would run leftovers, which would make them harder remove. Rain isn't too hard to handle if you have the tools to deal with it really, and those tools aren't ridiculously hard to find.
However, I would support testing Damp Rock.
@Regarding God Bless Atheism's Cress set:
It looks like it would get horribly mauled by Taunt, but I think it would make Kabutops extremely dangerous. Rain boosted Kabutops setting up in screens? GG.
However, I would support testing Damp Rock.
@Regarding God Bless Atheism's Cress set:
It looks like it would get horribly mauled by Taunt, but I think it would make Kabutops extremely dangerous. Rain boosted Kabutops setting up in screens? GG.
By the whole package, I mean in a nutshell, all of its attributes combined that arguably make it too much for UU to handle. The fact that it takes a lot of offensive effort to break down even with minimal defensive investment, and is able to pack enough offensive might and/or support options to deter the vast majority of those that can, many of which are not built to last long in battle. All the while making it difficult for teams to avoid giving her somewhat comfortable setup opportunities (given that she walls so much in general), and giving weak-hitting teams a massive headache with the ability to create such hard to break Subs. Doing all this while being very hazard resistant and overall extremely long lasting, all to an extent much greater than any other current UU Pokemon IMO, most comparable to Crobat as far as BLs are concerned, but I stop short of making a direct comparison as there are some obvious differences betwen the two still.
That's just a basic summary. To be honest I don't have the time right now to write down or formulate a super-detailed essay on my reasons, but I would be prepared to in due course if needed.
Actually most of your list can be taken apart just by the current Cresselia set that I use, which is 92 HP / 76 Def / 252 SpA / 88 Spe Modest with Psychic / HP Ground / Calm Mind / Substitute. The only exceptions are Absol (who is a very short-lived LO wielding glass cannon that can be worn down simply with SR, one attack and a switch to PlotCroak) and sometimes Mismagius.
I do personally believe that that is the overall best set for Cress in this current environment, but I do not think it is broken by itself. It is when all her other attributes and possible sets are considered when the case for possible BL takes hold.
They don't care all that much, because once Rest is revealed ANY Ground type can come in risk-free without any consequence whatsoever. And that's assuming that Umbreon or Regi don't just Curse up and beat it anyway. Not saying that it isn't a good set, it can be a very good set. But it isn't without an extreme drawback that means it can't immediately take advantage of its element of surprise under common conditions, one that has to be very wary of coming out early-game when the opponent's team is uncertain and has to wait very lategame to be truly effective against almost any team. This is different to comparing the two most common offensive sets for each, and arguably there is less threat overlap with Cresselia's. You are welcome to disagree though.
Lol 'SubShuca'. Sorry, but that is an obvious gimmick and you know it. Or is the word 'and' used badly here?
All I meant was that there are more ways in which Cresselia can be threatening as opposed to Slowbro; the fact that it can fulfill a similar Thunder Wave role but has more versatility on the offensive. I will admit though that 'whilst' was probably the wrong word to use there, so I apologize for that.
As for Rain, I stand by my assertion that, if anything, Damp Rock is what should be placed as Suspect. I believe that this is 'highly likely' to solve any potential problem with Rain whilst having the minimum impact on team-building options in the metagame as a whole.
pz and cress dont belong in uu, im not even getting into that, uxie is anything but "underused" 95% of teams ive faced have had some annoying fucking variant of uxie, i personally think any poke with 580+ bst should be nowhere near uu.
EDIT- while ive found a plotcroak can make quick work of it with shadow ball, but the chances of you getting a np off while keeping your sash intact w/o rocks being layed down, no light screen up, and uxie not packing psychic, is not very probable.
EDIT- while ive found a plotcroak can make quick work of it with shadow ball, but the chances of you getting a np off while keeping your sash intact w/o rocks being layed down, no light screen up, and uxie not packing psychic, is not very probable.
As mentioned before, Registeel survives against one poké and nothing more, because he'll most likely be switching in, risks being 2HKOed (IIRC) and can only paralyze and sometimes use EQ (really, I just don't consider Boom a viable option; but that's just me). Ludicolo simply loves Milotic, and is a fodder for stuff like Qwilfish, Raikou and such. Venusaur is severely hurt by any LO Ice Beam, thus can't handle more than one poke and can't take on physical sweepers. My point is, people shouldn't be forced to run Milo/Venu/Regi/Croak at the same time to stand a chance.
I'm honestly afraid banning Damp Rock will erradicate this style, but I see no other option TBVH.
I agree with everything Lemmiwinks said. I've been playing the new UU suspects for more than a week now, and I have to say that Cresselia is probably the only Pokemon in the metagame which fulfills all of the BL characteristics. She has the stats, typing, ability and movesets to be an effective sweeper, an almost unbreakable wall and a fantastic support Pokemon.
Of all the potential Cresselia's counters, the most reliable in my opinion is Rhyperior with sandstorm support. With the SpD boost and thanks to solid rock it can take even a super effective hidden power or psychic and 2hko back with megahorn. A +1 hp fight\ground only manages around 35%, while megahorn will always 2hko Cress, sandstorm negating leftovers recovery and hindering moonlight healing (though offensive Cress rarely run moonlight) is just an added bonus. This is of course a specialized counter, but at least it's a reliable one!
Also, double screen + lunar dance Cress is just too useful for HO teams like mine, and to be honest I'd consider it broken for that reason alone.
Of all the potential Cresselia's counters, the most reliable in my opinion is Rhyperior with sandstorm support. With the SpD boost and thanks to solid rock it can take even a super effective hidden power or psychic and 2hko back with megahorn. A +1 hp fight\ground only manages around 35%, while megahorn will always 2hko Cress, sandstorm negating leftovers recovery and hindering moonlight healing (though offensive Cress rarely run moonlight) is just an added bonus. This is of course a specialized counter, but at least it's a reliable one!
Also, double screen + lunar dance Cress is just too useful for HO teams like mine, and to be honest I'd consider it broken for that reason alone.
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