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np: UU - Can't Touch This
- Thread starter reachzero
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The point I am making is this:
With any given move that has less than 100% accuracy, the chance of missing any number of times in a row (as well as all intermediate cases) is NOT zero. So it stands to reason that if a player uses these moves regularly over many battles, these stand-out 'haxy' situations are bound to happen eventually. There is also no law that prevents these scenarios from occasionally bunching together rather than being finely spread out over many battles, to the point where such incidents become significant and noticeable. This also has a non-zero probability attached to it, so it is also bound to happen eventually. Just because you tend to notice these events and not the countless other 'regular' occurrences, this does not mean that you were 'incredibly hard done by'. On the other hand, players who minimize luck in this respect when building their teams will NEVER experience this self-inflicted hax.
This factor is on top of the regular hax due to crits and status that occur independently of the player's conscious decisions, and are therefore approximately equal over time from player to player. When you look at it this way, a player using inaccurate moves should expect to lose a certain percentage of their battles due to accuracy hax as par for the course. To say that you are any more hard done by as result of this is just pure arrogance.
Still sucks when it happens, though.
I'm not really sure what point either of you are making, frankly.
Yes, using moves with higher accuracy will cause you to lose fewer matches because of missing. Obviously. Similarly, Stone Edge has the same chance to miss every time I use it (20%), but there is a far smaller than 20% chance to miss twice in a row (4%, I think?). I'd feel pretty comfortable bettering on 24 in 25 odds, that's awfully bad luck.
Incidentally, I wish this community would grow out of terms like "hax". Luck is a really unfortunate element of what should be a strategy game, but it's an element of the game we can't feasibly remove, though we definitely need to try to control it as individual players to keep chances of losing because of it as low as possible. We all have good and bad luck (in theory all of us at the same rate, adjusted for people who set themselves up by relying on inaccurate moves or trying to do stupid shit like chain Substitutes hoping for snow cloak/paralyze effect/etc or whatever). I don't find anything in this game quite as unappealing as those times when I get five lines of "OMG THATS SUCH HAX" when an irrelevant CH happens in a battle I was in control of anyway occurs, or whatever. Even in situations where it actually changes the result, do people think it only happens to them? Do people expect their opponent to sympathize, because I, for one, sure don't care -- I probably lost a game the same way earlier in the night.
I think what I'm trying to get at here: Probability happens.
Yes, using moves with higher accuracy will cause you to lose fewer matches because of missing. Obviously. Similarly, Stone Edge has the same chance to miss every time I use it (20%), but there is a far smaller than 20% chance to miss twice in a row (4%, I think?). I'd feel pretty comfortable bettering on 24 in 25 odds, that's awfully bad luck.
Incidentally, I wish this community would grow out of terms like "hax". Luck is a really unfortunate element of what should be a strategy game, but it's an element of the game we can't feasibly remove, though we definitely need to try to control it as individual players to keep chances of losing because of it as low as possible. We all have good and bad luck (in theory all of us at the same rate, adjusted for people who set themselves up by relying on inaccurate moves or trying to do stupid shit like chain Substitutes hoping for snow cloak/paralyze effect/etc or whatever). I don't find anything in this game quite as unappealing as those times when I get five lines of "OMG THATS SUCH HAX" when an irrelevant CH happens in a battle I was in control of anyway occurs, or whatever. Even in situations where it actually changes the result, do people think it only happens to them? Do people expect their opponent to sympathize, because I, for one, sure don't care -- I probably lost a game the same way earlier in the night.
I think what I'm trying to get at here: Probability happens.
I don't want this to turn into a "who has experienced the most hax" log but when Sleep Powder misses 7 times in a row, 1.333% chance, (I think) there is no better word than 'Hax'.
On another note, I've had some success with CB Hitmonlee, even with Cressalia in the midst. Close Combat 3HKO's Venusaur, 2HKO's Altaria (Rocks), and generally pummels just about anything. He does take a bit of prediction mind-you due to Mismag and the bunch.
On another note, I've had some success with CB Hitmonlee, even with Cressalia in the midst. Close Combat 3HKO's Venusaur, 2HKO's Altaria (Rocks), and generally pummels just about anything. He does take a bit of prediction mind-you due to Mismag and the bunch.
Honestly, I don't see the point in complaining about bad luck. Anyone who has ever watched me play knows that I have horrendous luck, but I don't complain about it because a) most of it is self-inflicted (I use Stone Edge on Kabutops over Rock Slide or Return for its ability to ohko certain threats, such as Milotic, and I use Leaf Storm on Sceptile with its "70%" accuracy but massive power) and b) it's an inherent part of the game. If you complain about luck, you might as well complain about the EV system or the fact that your Pokemon can only learn 4 moves at a time. Those factors are outside your control as well (they're in Gamefreak's control), so the only thing you can do is use those elements to your advantage and minimize your chances of being screwed by them. Just like you pump HP and Defense in a physical wall even though it could use more ATK and SPE, choose high accuracy, low power moves and subpar Pokemon with abilities like Battle Armor if you want to minimize "hax". Or use superior Pokemon with abilities that don't minimize bad luck and moves that grant you certain key KOs but are less accurate, just like you would add more ATK EVs on a wall for a certain purpose (and compromise some defensive utility).
Skuntank is the answer to Mismagius(and Alakazam). Skuntank comes in=dead Mismagius barring hax.
Speaking about hax: it's embarassing when you lose a easy fight or ten because of sheer hax. Like all my pokes being CHed to death , Stone Edge missing among other shit.
About CH... well, use Curse Lapras and be happy... and good luck taking it down without STAB attacks.
Thank you! I am honestly beginning to think there could be something wrong with shoddy. I've had random d/ces, and hax galore, as have others...obviously. My team has pretty good moves in terms of accuracy, except for WoW and power whip. I haven't had a problem with missing except for one game where PW missed 3 times in a row on raikou xD, but CHs and absolutely odd shit like earlier: drapion v. my rhyperior. He flinches and freezes with ice fang (first hit) i stay frozen like 3 turns...wake up and it flinches me to death, seriously, wtf? Sorry if this sounds bitchy, but I honestly do not think that every damn match (EVERY) match should include hax. Maybe stuff that doesn't matter, but almost every occurrence is game changing. I wish I saved logs....[/end bitching xD]
Using a CurseTalk Cradily is fun. That sucker's so durable, you can almost guarantee it'll die by critical sometimes. What also amuses me is when PPstallers complain when you crit them to death as they repeatedly heal. By the time you deplete your stock of recover or whatever, it's expected that you've been critted at least once.
Meh, I changed my mind. There is no way I'm writing an essay for something as trivial as which Pokemon get to stay in UU. Although I'd like to give my opinions on Raikou and Porygon-z (Froslass and Cresselia have obvious outcomes anyway), I will never write an essay that I'm not forced to. I just want to make the list.
Oh god, I hate Cursers. Even worse is Curse Cradily in Sandstorm. Then you can't KO it from either side of the spectrum.
Oh, I actually have a questin about the essays. Can our vote not be counted if our essay is only subpar?
And who do we send the essays to!?
Oh god, I hate Cursers. Even worse is Curse Cradily in Sandstorm. Then you can't KO it from either side of the spectrum.
Oh, I actually have a questin about the essays. Can our vote not be counted if our essay is only subpar?
And who do we send the essays to!?
Can we actually talk about the current metagame instead of hax? -.-
Anyways, my main concern with Cresselia is that I can't stick it on any team. I can't put it on an offensive team, I can't put it on a stall team, but yet its still a pretty good defensive Pokemon. I'm going to have a tough time explaining Cresselia's placing in the tier when the paragraph comes. Anyone else finding it hard to put Cresselia on a team?
Anyways, my main concern with Cresselia is that I can't stick it on any team. I can't put it on an offensive team, I can't put it on a stall team, but yet its still a pretty good defensive Pokemon. I'm going to have a tough time explaining Cresselia's placing in the tier when the paragraph comes. Anyone else finding it hard to put Cresselia on a team?
Well, i didn't tried to use Cresselia yet, so i can't help you there...
But if you ask me, Cresselia shouldn't be so hard to place on a team.
You need a bulky "sweeper"? CM Cresselia is there. You need support? Dual Screener will give the opposing team a hard time. And it goes on...
The closest we get for support is Uxie followed by Gardevoir(which can do everything Uxie does and a whole lot more, but it isn't that bulky... on the physical side), while there's no real replacement for the CM one.
Hiw many pokes Cresselia walls? Mostly everything without a set up move or a SE attack IMO.
That should apply to the defensive characteristic, right?
If i'm saying crap, please ignore lol. I know nothing about this...
The beauty (and the horror) of Cresselia is that there are sets to support pretty much any team.
For example, I've found it to be superbly effective in the Sunny Day team I'm currently laddering with. Sunny Day/Thunder Wave/Calm Mind/Solarbeam shuts rain teams down. Unless the bulky nonwater dancer is still alive, Cress takes absolutely anything you can throw at it (+2 Kabutops Waterfall: 80-95%[Admittedly the bulkiest possible set, though]), laughs it off, makes the sun shine, and Solarbeams everything to death or switches out to something with a bit more speed.
In a more conventional role, it walls enough things to be a good go-to poke. Switch in on something advantageous and set up. Or maybe just Twave the crap out of everything. The possibilities are endless. Offensively, Cresselia's bulk allows it to easily fire off a couple Calm Minds, at which a Calm Mind/Moonlight/2 Attack Cress can take out most of the metagame, though it fears status. Under defensive, there's really not much that can OHKO it without setting up. Actually, I don't think there's anything that OHKO's with no setup. Plus, it's got a healing move. It's the straight up bulkiest poke in UU, and it can heal itself. And under support, it can dual screen, use Rain Dance or Sunny Day, and cripple opposing pokes with Lunar Dance, which also rejuninates your own pokémon. Basically, if there's something you want done, Cress is probably a good candidate.
Edit: Charge Beam is also a sexy move. Go forth and pwn, so we can get more reasons to ban the sucker.
For example, I've found it to be superbly effective in the Sunny Day team I'm currently laddering with. Sunny Day/Thunder Wave/Calm Mind/Solarbeam shuts rain teams down. Unless the bulky nonwater dancer is still alive, Cress takes absolutely anything you can throw at it (+2 Kabutops Waterfall: 80-95%[Admittedly the bulkiest possible set, though]), laughs it off, makes the sun shine, and Solarbeams everything to death or switches out to something with a bit more speed.
In a more conventional role, it walls enough things to be a good go-to poke. Switch in on something advantageous and set up. Or maybe just Twave the crap out of everything. The possibilities are endless. Offensively, Cresselia's bulk allows it to easily fire off a couple Calm Minds, at which a Calm Mind/Moonlight/2 Attack Cress can take out most of the metagame, though it fears status. Under defensive, there's really not much that can OHKO it without setting up. Actually, I don't think there's anything that OHKO's with no setup. Plus, it's got a healing move. It's the straight up bulkiest poke in UU, and it can heal itself. And under support, it can dual screen, use Rain Dance or Sunny Day, and cripple opposing pokes with Lunar Dance, which also rejuninates your own pokémon. Basically, if there's something you want done, Cress is probably a good candidate.
Edit: Charge Beam is also a sexy move. Go forth and pwn, so we can get more reasons to ban the sucker.
Okay, since pretty much everyone is saying Cress is broken, what would be the main set that is broken? Sub CM I'm assuming, but what would the two coverage moves be?
I actually agree with you on that one Franky. Yes, Cresselia can fulfill many roles, but when making teams, it always turns out that I'd rather have something else. That's the main reason why I've barely used Cressy this test; everytime I stick it on a team and test it out, after further testing I find out that something else fits better in that slot.
Admitedly, not much.
Having SR up is a neccesity as it limits its switchs, and a strong priority move is also important.
I have a hard time placing Cresselia in my stall team since it does nothing significant to my team at all. I mean, why use Cresselia when you can use someone like Chansey who can set up Stealth Rock and pass Wish. On offensive teams, I don't want to put Cresselia in since it will slow down the pace and it ultimately needs 2-3 CM's in to actually be a force. But I have to agree with PK Gaming though, it fits well on balanced-ish teams (look at Silent Verse's team for example). I actually find Cresselia to do its job by setting up stuff like dual screens, sunny day, rain dance, etc. Outside that however, his options are very limited.
I remember facing a stall team by the beggining of the stage (August's IIRC) that employed Cresselia as a rather interesting counter to some threats. It employed Grass Knot (I'm not really sure why, but it could obviously handle stuff like Rhyperior) and Psychic. Of course, those are jobs that could be performed by stuff like Milotic, but Cresselia does bear much better defensive stats, immunity to hazards other than SR and the surprise element. My point is, Cresselia has the options, and can find a niche on most stall teams to perform the most varied jobs.
Thank you Buddha -.- Moving on...
I agree actually. Often times, Cress ends up being dead weight for me also. She fulfills a support roll better than anything imo. She just sits there and walls the hell out of nigh everything...even SubCM...kinda. I'm not sure if I'll have the same problem with the paragraph though, I want this bitch gone.
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