-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
NP: UU - Dragonfly
- Thread starter reachzero
- Start date
- Status
I'm pretty sure the deadline was September 30th.
Yea, that's why I was thinking there could have been a change of plans.
EDIT: It could mean that they were just waiting to update the threads at the same time (due to tier changes), not that it would impact the decision on Yanmega.
That shouldn't make a difference. Our knowledge of Yanmega's brokenness comes from the metagame before those changes, not after.
I was under the impression they were waiting on the threads in Policy Review to be finished up, to see how they are going to count the votes and everything. Although since it's getting close to the new tier list, they may just wait till then anyway.
Sorry we're still waiting on sexp reports. As soon as I get them the voting topic will be up.
feel free to use this as a discussion topic until the vote is done.
feel free to use this as a discussion topic until the vote is done.
Is there a point? The result is going to be completely obvious.
On to the topic at hand:
Roserade being gone is great, it was a borderline suspect as it is. I'm for ANYTHING that means that offensive teams don't have to stick a Registeel on them to be viable.
Yeah you're right but I would like the sexp reports for other reasons too but if I don't get them by tomorrow I really have no other option but to get the topic up I guess.
From my experience in the UU ladder since the introduction of HGSS moves, I've been finding Mismagius to be a bigger threat than before. With the boost from both Life Orb and Nasty Plot, the counters list becomes even shorter than it previously was, being able to fry Milotic and Registeel without much effort. Rock Polish Aggron isn't too bad either, considering he's been one of the more hyped Pokémon as of now.
I actually find Honchkrow to be completely out of control with Brave Bird. Not only does it 2HKO crazy shit like Donphan, it hits Pokemon like Slowbro (for a 2HKO also) harder then Night Slash did, meaning Honchkrow has a free move slot for Roost. Roost is quite good considering the most common forms of taking out Honchkrow involve hitting its flying weakness.
Of course NP Missy is crazy (I still use Leftovers + Substitute, but whatever floats your boat I guess).
Of course NP Missy is crazy (I still use Leftovers + Substitute, but whatever floats your boat I guess).
I find NP Missy a lot worse than SubCM Missy, especially the NP + 3 attacks set (aka Honchkrow bait). Missy is just way too frail and has too poor coverage to try and force its way through walls, and the lack of priority really makes it vunerable to scarfers. SubCM lets it set up on weaker special attackers and avoid Honchrape and revenge killing by scarfers.
Speaking of Honchkrow, Brave Bird's power is really breaking it. Previous hard counters like Milotic now die horribly and even Registeel is risking death from BB + Superpower. I have to deal with Krow by switching Magneton on the BB, Missy on the Superpower, and then mindgaming it to death...which is not a comfortable way of dealing with it at all.
Speaking of Honchkrow, Brave Bird's power is really breaking it. Previous hard counters like Milotic now die horribly and even Registeel is risking death from BB + Superpower. I have to deal with Krow by switching Magneton on the BB, Missy on the Superpower, and then mindgaming it to death...which is not a comfortable way of dealing with it at all.
I played a guy not too long ago who used a SubSalac NP Mismagius. I don't know the specifics of his set, but it seems like a very good set in theory. It's immune to Fake Out/Vacuum Wave, and Sub lets it play around Sucker Punch users. Also, thanks to its 105 base Speed, it'll outspeed most Scarfers after Salac. Ice Shard and Aqua Jet are the only two priority moves that it really needs to worry about, but the first only sees play on Donphan and the second on Azumarill, for the most part, and neither will enjoy boosted Shadow Balls if they switch in too early.
For those with Honchkrow problems, I suggest using a WoW/Reflect Rotom. Since most Honchkrow aren't using Night Slash anymore, it's pretty much free to switch in at any time and set up a wall or spread status. I've been using a Dual Screen/WoW/TBolt Rotom on my current team and it's been amazing.
For those with Honchkrow problems, I suggest using a WoW/Reflect Rotom. Since most Honchkrow aren't using Night Slash anymore, it's pretty much free to switch in at any time and set up a wall or spread status. I've been using a Dual Screen/WoW/TBolt Rotom on my current team and it's been amazing.
Rotom isn't that great a counter really, especially without any recovery. Any version that can outspeed is taking just under 50% minimum from Brave Bird, and therefore can only switch in once reliably. God help you if they happen to be carrying a MixDoom on the same team.
Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees how overpowering Honchkrow is now. Brave Bird has had more of an effect than even I anticipated, and will surely be the next suspect. Only solace is that now Rhyperior might be coming down, so UU would now have a decent check that can stay offensively minded.
NP Missy can be good, but I agree that dropping Substitute invites way too many risks in the current UU metagame. It has got better though no doubt, as long as people realize that it still has the CM option and Nasty Plot serves to make it less predictable as an offensive threat.
Really not impressed about Aggron so far though. A worrying percentage of the metagame outruns and carries Water / Ground / Fighting moves, not to mention all the bulky Ground and Fighting Pokemon. I actually think that Relicanth is still a better fit to the metagame despite being weaker. Ambipom's Low Kick is a measly 60 BP, Honchkrow's Superpower doesn't OHKO, and STAB Aqua Tail provides better secondary coverage than Aggron could ever hope for, among other advantages.
Well, although I do like the way smogon univesrity organises the tiers, I have a feeling that smogon is a bit "hasty" on making suspects. Yanmega was voted as a UU suspect before HGSS came out. At the moment, the UU metagame is a lot different than it used to be. Feraligatr got Aqua Jet, Mismagius doesn't need to use Calm Mind any more because it got Nasty Plot, people has started showing Aggron some respect now that he got Head Smash. These are big changes. The same thong happened a year ago with Garchomp. Garchomp was banned before the HUGE changes of Platinum.
What I am trying to say is that Smogon's timing in making suspects is bad. We should have waited for the new additions of HGSS and the october's tiering changes before we procced in banning (or unbanning) Yanmega.
What I am trying to say is that Smogon's timing in making suspects is bad. We should have waited for the new additions of HGSS and the october's tiering changes before we procced in banning (or unbanning) Yanmega.
From my experience, the Honchkrow user almost never switches out (unless they've played me before), and it usually tries to Sucker Punch or BB, allowing me to WoW freely. Also, since I run a Chansey on my team, Rotom tends to come in on Pursuit (which hits Chansey) or Superpower rather than Brave Bird. If you're really afraid of MixDoom, just use Reflect first.
Mismaggy@ Lefties
NP
Taunt
Shadow Ball
T-Bolt
Has been my prefered set. Taunt prevents phazing and status. Pretty much after Registeel is dead its gg.
Lapras@ Lefties
Block
Perish Song
Ice Beam
Protect/ Sub
The only pokemon that Lapras actually feared (Roserade) is now OU. Even with Roserade hovering around this set averaged two kills a match with minimal team support. Lapras loves them bulky waters... no one wants to sac them.. so they lose something else.
Belly Drum Magmar... has been a disappointment to me. Needs to much support to be effective.
Been wanting to try NP Jynx/ Mr. Mime but haven't got to it.
Low Kick for Ambipom has been a god send. He can effectively dismantle the metagame aside from a select few... Milotic, Slowbro, and Donphan.
Regice is a very underated threat. With just Max Hp and no SpDef investment it can take ANY special attack, barring Stab Fire attacks, a +2 NP LO Mismaggy does like ~40% with shadowball/ Hp, iirc. I only wish that I used it earlier.
Morning Sun Arcanine is pretty awesome.
Head Smash Aggron always works nicely against me... when I try to use him he always misses so I've given up on him.
Yup, all I can think of for now.
NP
Taunt
Shadow Ball
T-Bolt
Has been my prefered set. Taunt prevents phazing and status. Pretty much after Registeel is dead its gg.
Lapras@ Lefties
Block
Perish Song
Ice Beam
Protect/ Sub
The only pokemon that Lapras actually feared (Roserade) is now OU. Even with Roserade hovering around this set averaged two kills a match with minimal team support. Lapras loves them bulky waters... no one wants to sac them.. so they lose something else.
Belly Drum Magmar... has been a disappointment to me. Needs to much support to be effective.
Been wanting to try NP Jynx/ Mr. Mime but haven't got to it.
Low Kick for Ambipom has been a god send. He can effectively dismantle the metagame aside from a select few... Milotic, Slowbro, and Donphan.
Regice is a very underated threat. With just Max Hp and no SpDef investment it can take ANY special attack, barring Stab Fire attacks, a +2 NP LO Mismaggy does like ~40% with shadowball/ Hp, iirc. I only wish that I used it earlier.
Morning Sun Arcanine is pretty awesome.
Head Smash Aggron always works nicely against me... when I try to use him he always misses so I've given up on him.
Yup, all I can think of for now.
Isn't the entire point of MixDoom so that Chansey doesn't counter it? Near-dead or not shouldn't make much of a difference. Also, there's four other members of the team.
- Status