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np: UU - Higher Ground
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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But then you'd have a much harder time wearing down Haze Milotic, as even a CH Return won't do enough to break it. You would at the very least need Substitute with enough bulk to take a Surf, which is definitely possible if speed isn't an issue. SD and Haze's PP are exactly equal, so Milotic can stall you out of SDs without taking a +2 hit. For that reason mainly I'd prefer Power Whip as Steels aren't much of a threat to Lickilicky, especially those on stall teams, and most can be worn down or set up on. Plus Power Whip hits Donphan and Ghosts much harder. The only advantage I see in Aqua Tail is for Roar Steelix.
After a fairly lengthy hiatus, I have come back to shoddy.
Yanmega is an unpleasant change, but I am not shedding any tears over Shaymin being kicked out.
I have played some games with CB Kanga, running max atk and adamant, with evs in defense and HP over speed. The idea is that this gives him the bulk to take a couple of hits when needed, while still being fast enough to outrun the majority of the other bulky, defensive mons. Has worked exceedingly well so far, battering down everything that doesn't resist return in 2 hits (as far as I can tell. Milo is very close to being a 3HKO).
Lickilicky sounds like an intriguing change of pace, but obviously won't work quite as well with a band as Kanga. His poor speed means a lot of other defensive pokes can switch in and inflict a crippling status, or use a healing move. Any advice on what kind of a spread to run with on an SD Licky, and if a sizable speed investment is worth it?
Yanmega is an unpleasant change, but I am not shedding any tears over Shaymin being kicked out.
I have played some games with CB Kanga, running max atk and adamant, with evs in defense and HP over speed. The idea is that this gives him the bulk to take a couple of hits when needed, while still being fast enough to outrun the majority of the other bulky, defensive mons. Has worked exceedingly well so far, battering down everything that doesn't resist return in 2 hits (as far as I can tell. Milo is very close to being a 3HKO).
Lickilicky sounds like an intriguing change of pace, but obviously won't work quite as well with a band as Kanga. His poor speed means a lot of other defensive pokes can switch in and inflict a crippling status, or use a healing move. Any advice on what kind of a spread to run with on an SD Licky, and if a sizable speed investment is worth it?
well running enough Speed to outrun Weezing should be enough, as it's the most common will-o-wisp'er you can hope to outspeed. Otherwise, you don't need much speed to outrun the likes of Chansey and Registeel.
I actually think running max speed Adamant on Lickilicky is viable. This puts it 1 point ahead of min-speed Milotic (practically all defensive Milotic run no speed EVs) and +2 Return will score a 2HKO (I'm running Aqua Tail in the spare slot for better neutral coverage).
Edit - And for anyone saying Milotic will just Haze the turn it comes in anyway. Lickilicky will still 2HKO the standard Milotic over 50% of the time with a +2 Return followed by unboosted Return with Stealth Rock in play.
Edit - And for anyone saying Milotic will just Haze the turn it comes in anyway. Lickilicky will still 2HKO the standard Milotic over 50% of the time with a +2 Return followed by unboosted Return with Stealth Rock in play.
*Thinks about what a mixed Lapras is...*
Posting to say that DDAltaria needs more love, since its just a tremendously good sweeper, especially late game when you can take out Registeel and Steelix with Earthquake (both aren't actually as big of threats as you'd think, Regi without Ice Punch or Twave are set up bait and no Atk Steelix doesnt even 2KO with Gyro ball).
AAAAANNNDD, CB Hariyama switches in fearlessly into every wall who's name doesnt start with Slow and blows stuff up with some Pursuit support.
Posting to say that DDAltaria needs more love, since its just a tremendously good sweeper, especially late game when you can take out Registeel and Steelix with Earthquake (both aren't actually as big of threats as you'd think, Regi without Ice Punch or Twave are set up bait and no Atk Steelix doesnt even 2KO with Gyro ball).
AAAAANNNDD, CB Hariyama switches in fearlessly into every wall who's name doesnt start with Slow and blows stuff up with some Pursuit support.
Playing with some gimmicks and Girafarig lead, its pretty cool, I will post it here - I know its ridiculous but it works...lol
Girafarig - Anti Lead
@ Choice Scarf
Inner Focus
Modest Nature (SpA+ / Spe-)
118 Def / 160 SpA / 232 Spe
- Trick
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Rock
- Skill Swap
This is pretty cool, thanks to its ability Inner Focus. It is built to destroy a few common leads. Ambipom for one can only deal around 40-50% with Fake Out thanks to Inner Focus. As it tries to U-turn, it doesn't realize that I have Scarf so I proceed to use Psychic the second turn. Psychic 2HKOs Roserade also, if it misses then tough luck for him because it dies. Trick screws with bulky leads mainly, especially Uxie who SR's first turn and gives me a free turn to switch-out or use anything depending on the next switch-in. Hidden Power Rock is great and outpaces +1 Yanmega, always KOing it. Life Orb Moltres dies from Hidden Power Rock also. Skill Swap is filler for testing - but its pretty cool. It switches abilities with the opponent, depending on what I want I can swap abilities with someone who has a useful ability, like Azumarill or something with Inner Focus.
At one time, I had a CB Kangaskan with Earthquake and Girafarig left. While the opponent had Uxie and registeel, technically I'm doomed in this scenario. I used Skill Swamp with Uxie, grabbed its Levitate and gave it innfer focus. And basically, I am safe to use Earthquake with Kangaskan with hitting both Uxie and Registeel without getting immune to Levitate. Overall it was pretty cool.
~
Stepping that aside, most people who play uu will realise that people are using at least one NU pokemon in each match. Its pretty good to see that instead of old standard. At times I saw too much Primeape's, Leafeon, etc. I think we're going to see alot of NU to UU next time DJD releases the usage list.
Girafarig - Anti Lead
@ Choice Scarf
Inner Focus
Modest Nature (SpA+ / Spe-)
118 Def / 160 SpA / 232 Spe
- Trick
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Rock
- Skill Swap
This is pretty cool, thanks to its ability Inner Focus. It is built to destroy a few common leads. Ambipom for one can only deal around 40-50% with Fake Out thanks to Inner Focus. As it tries to U-turn, it doesn't realize that I have Scarf so I proceed to use Psychic the second turn. Psychic 2HKOs Roserade also, if it misses then tough luck for him because it dies. Trick screws with bulky leads mainly, especially Uxie who SR's first turn and gives me a free turn to switch-out or use anything depending on the next switch-in. Hidden Power Rock is great and outpaces +1 Yanmega, always KOing it. Life Orb Moltres dies from Hidden Power Rock also. Skill Swap is filler for testing - but its pretty cool. It switches abilities with the opponent, depending on what I want I can swap abilities with someone who has a useful ability, like Azumarill or something with Inner Focus.
At one time, I had a CB Kangaskan with Earthquake and Girafarig left. While the opponent had Uxie and registeel, technically I'm doomed in this scenario. I used Skill Swamp with Uxie, grabbed its Levitate and gave it innfer focus. And basically, I am safe to use Earthquake with Kangaskan with hitting both Uxie and Registeel without getting immune to Levitate. Overall it was pretty cool.
~
Stepping that aside, most people who play uu will realise that people are using at least one NU pokemon in each match. Its pretty good to see that instead of old standard. At times I saw too much Primeape's, Leafeon, etc. I think we're going to see alot of NU to UU next time DJD releases the usage list.
That's definitely true, although Regirock, in my experience, is nowhere to be found for some reason. Everyone is using Registeel.
Registeel can also survive a +2 Earthquake easily and KO back with an Ice Punch.
Of course, thats why Magneton support is pretty helpful, but not nesessary because...
Lol, I think Regirock is a really good Pokémon right now.
Especially since its Explosion pwns.
Personally, I switch Dugtrio straight into every Registeel. They either T-Wave or SR, and Dugtrio 2HKOs them always, since they almost never Iron Head off the bat.
Plus, the Cursers are handled by Fire-types.
Especially since its Explosion pwns.
Personally, I switch Dugtrio straight into every Registeel. They either T-Wave or SR, and Dugtrio 2HKOs them always, since they almost never Iron Head off the bat.
Plus, the Cursers are handled by Fire-types.
a few thoughts about trapping
probably tl;dr
I used to think a great team strategy was Yanmega + Magneton + Dugtrio + Kanga/Ambipom/Tauros but maybe a week or a few days ago I decided to stop making teams like that. part of it was that having half my team preset got pretty boring after a while but the more important reason was that I didn't find the trapping combination reliable enough. most of the time it works fine (lets say 95% of the time) but I found that the few times where I couldn't successfully trap the opposing Registeel / Chansey / whatever made it too hard to win -- stuff like Curse Registeel which can on average beat CB Dugtrio if it Curses on the switch (you can only switch in a Fire-type so many times before it dies to SR and LO, moreso if its a Houndoom and not a Blaziken), beats Magneton barring crit, Shed Shell Registeel, Shed Shell Chansey (although Pursuit takes out Chansey pretty well).
it's a fine idea on paper and yes it "works" and "worked" for me, but meh it just seems like a more superficial way to play. an analogy I thought of while I used Magneton/Dugtrio is that it's kind of like being a caveman and battering through a door. it works most of the time but the few times the door is reinforced, you're screwed and can't get through. instead of doing that now I find most of my teams are filled with stuff like Donphan, Hitmonlee, Blaziken, Lapras, etc, stuff that can set up easily on the walls and take advantage of them -- lock picks if you will. I'm definitely not saying one type of play is intrinsically better than another (although it may seem like that from my choice of analogy) it's just what seems more effective to me at this point.
the "battering down a door" idea might sound kind of like suicide offense but I think it's pretty clear there's a difference from the way a HO team gets past things like Registeel and the way a team that utilizes Magneton / Dugtrio gets past them. the HO team doesn't care if Registeel has a Shed Shell or not -- if the Registeel user doesn't use it to wall say a LO Espeon (and get worn down in the process) he'll get swept but if a team that depends on trapping encounters too many Shed Shell pokemon it'll generally be harder to win.
dunno really what the point of this post was or if it makes sense to anyone other than me. just take it as my two cents on how the metagame (or my playing style I suppose) is developing, I guess.
probably tl;dr
I used to think a great team strategy was Yanmega + Magneton + Dugtrio + Kanga/Ambipom/Tauros but maybe a week or a few days ago I decided to stop making teams like that. part of it was that having half my team preset got pretty boring after a while but the more important reason was that I didn't find the trapping combination reliable enough. most of the time it works fine (lets say 95% of the time) but I found that the few times where I couldn't successfully trap the opposing Registeel / Chansey / whatever made it too hard to win -- stuff like Curse Registeel which can on average beat CB Dugtrio if it Curses on the switch (you can only switch in a Fire-type so many times before it dies to SR and LO, moreso if its a Houndoom and not a Blaziken), beats Magneton barring crit, Shed Shell Registeel, Shed Shell Chansey (although Pursuit takes out Chansey pretty well).
it's a fine idea on paper and yes it "works" and "worked" for me, but meh it just seems like a more superficial way to play. an analogy I thought of while I used Magneton/Dugtrio is that it's kind of like being a caveman and battering through a door. it works most of the time but the few times the door is reinforced, you're screwed and can't get through. instead of doing that now I find most of my teams are filled with stuff like Donphan, Hitmonlee, Blaziken, Lapras, etc, stuff that can set up easily on the walls and take advantage of them -- lock picks if you will. I'm definitely not saying one type of play is intrinsically better than another (although it may seem like that from my choice of analogy) it's just what seems more effective to me at this point.
the "battering down a door" idea might sound kind of like suicide offense but I think it's pretty clear there's a difference from the way a HO team gets past things like Registeel and the way a team that utilizes Magneton / Dugtrio gets past them. the HO team doesn't care if Registeel has a Shed Shell or not -- if the Registeel user doesn't use it to wall say a LO Espeon (and get worn down in the process) he'll get swept but if a team that depends on trapping encounters too many Shed Shell pokemon it'll generally be harder to win.
dunno really what the point of this post was or if it makes sense to anyone other than me. just take it as my two cents on how the metagame (or my playing style I suppose) is developing, I guess.
The main problem with that core whistle is that Magneton and Duggy are near useless against heavy offense and stall should be running Shed Shell.
I recently come back and been using a very offensive team (Mesprit, Azu, Tauros, Scyther, Houndoom, Donphan) and those trappers are absolutely useless against the whole team (exception is if Dugtrio can guess around Houndoom's Sucker Punch).
Anyway that team made me climb pretty fast to #2 in the ladder in about 3 days only, heavy offense is really the way to go now in my opinion, even with Yanmega being a bitch.
I recently come back and been using a very offensive team (Mesprit, Azu, Tauros, Scyther, Houndoom, Donphan) and those trappers are absolutely useless against the whole team (exception is if Dugtrio can guess around Houndoom's Sucker Punch).
Anyway that team made me climb pretty fast to #2 in the ladder in about 3 days only, heavy offense is really the way to go now in my opinion, even with Yanmega being a bitch.
Well it's not like Yanmega itself isn't suited for heavy offense either. And besides, Yanmega can't be that big a problem if you have Ice Shard Donphan, Sucker Punch Houndoom, Aqua Jet Azumarill, Tauros (who outruns and OHKOs Tinted variants), Quick Attack Scyther (who also outruns and KOs Tinted 'Mega), and possibly a TrickScarf Mesprit for a surprise kill against Tinted variants too?
Mixmence can also brag the same why isnt salamence banned? Dont say Sr since yanmega is affected even more.
Salamence is much easier to play around, because if you 'guess' correctly you can kill it.
For example if you expect a Dragon attack and send a Scarf Heatran, you kill it. If you expect a Dragon Dance, send Mamo and kill it, etc. Not to mention once it Outrages it's as good as dead.
For Yanmega if you expect a Bug Buzz and Air Slash or whatever, it doesn't matter because the next turn it's outspeeding you anyway, and has a good enough defence to take most priority attacks easily (especially when the only barely usable STAB Ice Shard in the tier is from Piloswine).
My point is, in an offensive team you have nothing that will reliable switch in on Yanmega and beat it no matter how your guessing/prediction/whatever is. For Salamence if you play better then your opponent it isnt as bad.
Before anyone smart tries to claim I'm assuming Yanmega has 200 moves at the same time, I'm talking about simple Protect, Bug Buzz, Air Slash, HP Ground @ Life Orb.
For example if you expect a Dragon attack and send a Scarf Heatran, you kill it. If you expect a Dragon Dance, send Mamo and kill it, etc. Not to mention once it Outrages it's as good as dead.
For Yanmega if you expect a Bug Buzz and Air Slash or whatever, it doesn't matter because the next turn it's outspeeding you anyway, and has a good enough defence to take most priority attacks easily (especially when the only barely usable STAB Ice Shard in the tier is from Piloswine).
My point is, in an offensive team you have nothing that will reliable switch in on Yanmega and beat it no matter how your guessing/prediction/whatever is. For Salamence if you play better then your opponent it isnt as bad.
Before anyone smart tries to claim I'm assuming Yanmega has 200 moves at the same time, I'm talking about simple Protect, Bug Buzz, Air Slash, HP Ground @ Life Orb.
Well, in OU, MixMence has quite a few checks, revenge killers mostly, Scizor being a prominent one. However, in UU, the priority users can't do > 50% to Yanmega(except Sucker Punch Absol/Honchkrow), which basically means that you have to have multiple priorities just to check Yanmega. Yanmega completely screws up the concept of revenge killing, since it doesn't even get outrun by scarfers after a few Speed Boosts. You're not even guaranteed to have SR up, since Donphan and Hitmontop are fantastic, reliable Spinners.
Yanmega also hits like a Truck, and unlike Mence, doesn't have to switch out every time it uses Draco Meteor, or lock itself into Outrage. Heck, it doesn't even need to worry about resists when using Specs Tinted Lens.
Would you like more reasons, or is this enough?
You are missing the point here. I said Yanmega fucks up a play-style (in this case heavy offense) because it basically forces you to slap a Milotic/Registeel/Chansey on a team JUST FOR IT since it's the only threat you can't reliable 'check' with revenge killers or priority.
Are there counters for it? Yes. Does that means it's not broken? FUCK NO.
Are there counters for it? Yes. Does that means it's not broken? FUCK NO.
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