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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

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It sure is getting close. Today, every single opponent I fought had Dugtrio. Last night, I saw it on every other team. Dugtrio is everywhere because Raikou fucks up offensive teams.

Other than that, the most common method of taking out Raikou sending in a wall to hit it with EQ. If Steelix fails to kill it, it just gets another CM and threatens to sweep.
 
We're not ignoring LO Raikou, we're just putting in alternatives. It's just like when using Garchomp, LO SDChomp slaps like a pimp, but many people still opt to run Yache or (Or in Suspect and Ubers these days) Haban. I'm not sure what the notable KOs that Raikou gets with a Life Orb are though (I'm showing my ignorance than proving a point here), so Shuca is quite appealing to me. You don't want sweep and run into Duggy and go "Fuck, there goes my sweep". I'd prefer to go "LOL, if this is your last line of defense you are fucked my friend".
 
Shuca Raikou still takes 70-80% from Jolly CB Dugtrio's Earthquake, at which point pretty much any priority move will end your sweep. Do you run Wish support?
 
Nah, I don't. I run Raikou on my HO team, so I'm not fussed about Wish support. It might be better just to run LO-Kou, anyway.
 
Narulyg said:
Shuca Raikou still takes 70-80% from Jolly CB Dugtrio's Earthquake, at which point pretty much any priority move will end your sweep. Do you run Wish support?
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Priority revenging or revenging in general is a problem for every sweeper in any metagame, as is the nature of having priority or Choice Scarf exist at all, so let's not use that as a crutch to say Raikou is in any way easy to handle.
 
Guys, for all the complaints about Raikou, we can't nominate him this round, unless you can give a very, very good reason that he deserves a third vote. Sorry.

And this is coming from a guy who has voted Raikou BL twice already.

Speaking of Raikou, ShucaKou is just awesome. I'm a little disappointed by the damage output, but then it's more powerful than the SubCMer before a boost.
 
I'm not really saying Raikou's easy to deal with at all. It's not, especially because all of its potential counters can be ganked with the appropriate move (HP Ice for Torterra, Extrasensory for Venusaur, Shadow Ball for Mismagius, ect.) It just seems that LO is more dangerous than Shuca, even with all these Dugtrios running around.
 
Raikou doesn't need shit to kill Mismagius lol.

Shuca and LO are different. Shuca is more dangerous to Raikou's "counters" while LO is more dangerous to everything else. If you can kill Dugtrio early with a Pursuit from Swellow or something else, then Raikou doesn't have much to worry about and can freely use LO. The metagame seems heavily prepared for Raikou as it is, which is why some people don't think of it as BL material, but if I could just get some playing time in this weekend, I'll happily dispute that theory and shed some more light on why it deserves the banhammer.

Guys, for all the complaints about Raikou, we can't nominate him this round, unless you can give a very, very good reason that he deserves a third vote. Sorry.
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How about voting for him under the pretense of an entirely different set? LO seems to be the culprit this round and if we get plenty of people to nominate him, Jabba and Reach will have no choice but to recognize it as a Suspect. Raikou's support for the last couple of rounds was fairly weak, but I suspect it increasing tenfold now that it doesn't have any broken OU dropouts to hide behind.
 
SJCrew said:
It sure is getting close. Today, every single opponent I fought had Dugtrio. Last night, I saw it on every other team. Dugtrio is everywhere because Raikou fucks up offensive teams.

Other than that, the most common method of taking out Raikou sending in a wall to hit it with EQ. If Steelix fails to kill it, it just gets another CM and threatens to sweep.
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Yea i'm going to have to agree. As tempting as the power is when Raikou holds a Life Orb, almost every single team i play as a surefire way to beat raikou.( i.e chansey / dugtrio, mostly dugtrio). Shucakou can at least guarantee a good late game sweep if you remove priority.

Also as far as suspects go i can definitely see Dugtrio going to BL under a support characteristic. He is able to easily trap and kill large portions of the UU meta game. Basically he always guarantees at least one kill a game, and thats at the bare minimum. He removes key counters for a handful of potent sweepers in the meta game as well. ( RAIKOU, sub mismagius, etc.)
 
Has anyone else noticed the rise in Blastoise as a spiner? It's making it really hard for my Froslass to act as a spin blocker and another thing what would be the best Walrein check because It's unbeliavable how much damage that thing can do with only a layer of spikes and SR
 
Stallrein check?? Anything faster that can hit it hard before it can sub. Toxicroak is probably the best, as he's immune to Toxic, Surf (Only fears Blizzard), and can Sub up on Walrein and fire off Focus Punches or Nasty Plot up in its face. If it comes out and Subs on you unexpectedly, you can always just Roar it out of something.
 
Erazor said:
Guys, for all the complaints about Raikou, we can't nominate him this round, unless you can give a very, very good reason that he deserves a third vote. Sorry.

And this is coming from a guy who has voted Raikou BL twice already.
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I don't get the logic here. "we didn't ban it before so it clearly isn't a suspect". How on earth does one thing have to do with another? Thinking that Raikou is any "less" of a suspect simply because it hasn't been voted BL is fallacious and simply illogical; did the fact that it was voted UU make Raikou worse? Clearly neither has anything to do with one another. Why is the fact that people didn't vote it BL holding any weight in Raikou's tiering at all?

As long as the same arguments apply (which they do), Raikou should clearly still be nominated as it was before. ie. people's votes are still valid if made for the same reasons as the last metagame.

The number of votes actually proves nothing except for the fact that Raikou's tiering is constantly in question. This is an arguement for the contrary of what it's being made out to be.

EDIT: I don't mean to sound angry I just don't think it makes sense at all, and people are literally taking it as law because something that resembles that idea is in the OP.

Erazor said:
Speaking of Raikou, ShucaKou is just awesome. I'm a little disappointed by the damage output, but then it's more powerful than the SubCMer before a boost.
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Are people forgetting the SubCM set? It's by FAR the best set in my opinion. Just run 232 SpA / 24 SpD / 252 Spe and you can abuse the shit out of Milotic, Slowking, and any other special attacker in the metagame. Venusaur a check? You're going to lose if you switch into Spikes 1-2 times and fail to outpredict. Registeel? Even if I hit you for 30%, you lack recovery. All I need to do is hit you 1-2 more times.

SubCM Raikou's checks are too easily passable. I will not deny that they exist, but they are either overspecialized (ie not viable against any other Pokemon) or they are passable via Spikes and smart switching.

That is my Raikou rant for the night.
 
I must be the #1 gimmick attracter. I mean, sub punch Chansey, SubShadow Ball Weezing, and Subpunch Croagunk, like really? Everyone knows I love gimmicks but that's just terrible lol. Anyways Scyther is still a beast, and I love my Mismagius. <3
 
Lol on the topic of gimmicks, I battled a guy (Forgot who he/she was) using an LC team but at level 100 (So just lowest evos). It was working pretty well too.
 
Golden Sun said:
A quick question about the upper requirements. Do we average our rating or not?
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Heysup said:
Ok well I don't know where this is explained offically, because this is the nth time I've explained it:

EVERYTHING is based on your rating range. If you're range is 1550-1650, your rating would be 1550 + 1650 over two to find the "AVERAGE" rating. The 55 is deviation, which is basically the difference between your range divided by two. So using the same example, 1650 - 1550 = 100/2 = 50 deviation.

The 1775/45 rating is a "new" part of the test where if your AVERAGE rating and deviation are that high/low, you can basically "bypass" paragraph writing.
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Man, why is the Raikou discussion so inconsistent? If it were more consistent I may have given it one more chance on my teams. I kind of doubt I could get the Raikou vote with last test's SEXP...
 
Golden Sun said:
Has anyone else noticed the rise in Blastoise as a spiner? It's making it really hard for my Froslass to act as a spin blocker and another thing what would be the best Walrein check because It's unbeliavable how much damage that thing can do with only a layer of spikes and SR
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i quit using donphan as a spinner thanks to frosslass. hitmontop and blastoise can guarantee a spin and fear nothing from frosslass.

problem with blastoise is something like missy coming in and setting up in its face because it just can't do much back to it.
 
shrang said:
Stallrein check?? Anything faster that can hit it hard before it can sub. Toxicroak is probably the best, as he's immune to Toxic, Surf (Only fears Blizzard), and can Sub up on Walrein and fire off Focus Punches or Nasty Plot up in its face. If it comes out and Subs on you unexpectedly, you can always just Roar it out of something.
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The point of Stallrein, which is exclusively used in Hail, is to merely Sub+Protect+Sub+Protect... until you die from hail damage + (toxic spikes damage + SR/Spikes damage) If I'm not wrong Stallrein and Sub+Protect stall for 32 turns, that is enough to kill 2 Leftovers-less Pokemon by Hail Damage alone, so good job using Substitute and making Walrein's life easier. And of course Stallrein would come in only on something it can't take too much damage from and Sub up... So you switch in your Stallrein "check" as it Subs up and it stalls you to death.

Anyone tried Taunting Walrein? Though you might receive a Blizzard to the face... or Super Fang + Brine LOL
 
As HeySup said, most of Raikou's checks can be unreliable due to both Spikes, lack of instant recovery or can only switch in to certain moves based on Hidden Power type and predicting correctly. But I feel the latter two things apply to a lot of UU's powerful attackers as well, not just Raikou. And I believe that it is the influx of Spikes that makes Raikou so much harder to deal with.

I think it's important to test UU with Raikou and without Froslass, and see how broken he still is. I predict he will be a lot less impressive in that kind of metagame.
 
Untrue, I never swept with LO raikou without Spikes. I did however, sweep easier with a CB Dugtrio under my belt. I've been advocating dugtrio as a possible suspect, and it seems like people are finally realizing how great at supporting it is. At times though, LO Raikou is somewhat underwhelming sweeping by itself, so I would like to suggest the banning of Froslass and Dugtrio first, then maybe Raikou as a possible suspect.
 
Lol, raikou doesn't even need spike to sweep; half the time he doesn't even need a CM...duggy is everywhere, but isn't BL material imo, his usage will die once again when raikou leaves.
 
I thought that if a suspect is voted UU a certain amount of times, by a certain number of votes its not to be considered in further suspect tests. Since last test was a 6-3 UU that means only 33.3% voted BL and the time before that was 6-4 which smacks itself at 40% BL. What Erazor is saying is twice in a row the super majority voted it to be UU why should re test it again. ( at least thats how i see it.)
 
All it takes is a bunch of other lures for Venusaur and its counters to be weakened. Dugtrio should be suspect, and then Raikou might be UU. However, it isn't that reliant on Spikes from my experience. The LO set with Extrasensory and HP Water takes care of its "counters" really easily (Venusaur, Rhyperior, and others). If the usual SD Venusaur switches in on Thunderbolt, it's in Extrasensory's OHKO range. Dugtrio and some lures (for taking care of priority and weakening counters) is really all it needs to sweep. I've only used Spikes to help the lures do their job.

Edit: Cresselia and Porygon-Z are gone now, and honestly, they stole the spotlight from these other threats. HeySup is right in saying that past votes don't make a Pokemon less or more dangerous than it is now.
 
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