Haha early bitching. Can we please wait til we actuzlly get the new list please? I honestly don't remeber ever using smeargle when it was UU. It was way too predictable because everyone ran the same damn sets, so fearing that there will be at least one creative person is definately nothing to be scared of. If anything, Thund and FlareBlitz will top the board with their off the wall sets lol.
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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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I know people used Smeargle in the past, and if it was that good even with Crobat terrorizing the lead slot...well, let's just say that while I'll have fun with it if it drops down (the most trolling potential out of any pokemon, ever) I won't hesitate to vote it BL if need be.
Oh and in case someone tries to bring up Weezing as a hard counter to Cross, here's Guts Heracross' +2 Facade against max/max+ Weezing: 91.6% - 107.8%. So yeah. The only thing even remotely capable of checking Heracross would be a max SPE Rotom/MissyD with HP Flying (lol) or another Heracross with Scarf and Aerial Ace (also lol).
Oh and in case someone tries to bring up Weezing as a hard counter to Cross, here's Guts Heracross' +2 Facade against max/max+ Weezing: 91.6% - 107.8%. So yeah. The only thing even remotely capable of checking Heracross would be a max SPE Rotom/MissyD with HP Flying (lol) or another Heracross with Scarf and Aerial Ace (also lol).
A few interesting calcs
50 | Rotom-c | 26631 | 2.72 Could we see Rotom Cutter soon? Does the usage go by Rotom Appliances as a whole or each individual one because:
99 | Rotom-f | 8633 | 0.88 |. If so, why are they all tallied as one?
46 | Umbreon | 35337 | 3.60 Seriously, its like back and forth every few months with this one.
48 | Alakazam | 29481 | 3.01 | Could Alakazam have a chance of leaving?
About Heracross: What about Arcanine? I haven't done any calcs but with intimidate, decent defense, and Flare Blitz, it looks like that it can be a potential check/counter.
50 | Rotom-c | 26631 | 2.72 Could we see Rotom Cutter soon? Does the usage go by Rotom Appliances as a whole or each individual one because:
99 | Rotom-f | 8633 | 0.88 |. If so, why are they all tallied as one?
46 | Umbreon | 35337 | 3.60 Seriously, its like back and forth every few months with this one.
48 | Alakazam | 29481 | 3.01 | Could Alakazam have a chance of leaving?
About Heracross: What about Arcanine? I haven't done any calcs but with intimidate, decent defense, and Flare Blitz, it looks like that it can be a potential check/counter.
Rotom's usage goes according the use of all appliances together. I think they are only split because they are technically different pokés with different movepools, even if it's such a small change. Also, I'd rather rather play with Heracross, Smeargle, Salamence, Rayquaza and Arceus than give stall an immortal Ghost.
Heracross would be broken. It's just too powerful for UU. What BlueWind tried to emphasize with that list is that Heracross is superior to Gallade in almost every way. The only differences are Heracross's lack of priority. Otherwise, it beats out Gallade at pretty much everything, and people were complaining about it back then from what I heard. Just take a look at what SD FO Heracross does to OU Stall (well, used to do to it before Latias came...). I honestly think bringing it to UU would be a huge mistake.
btw, anyone try out passing NP boosts to things like Moltres and Venomoth. I think it might work. I already swept with Agilitres on the first battle after passing it 2 NP boosts from Ambipom who set up on a Spiritomb. XD
Edit: I loled at the fact Flamethrower at +4 did 80% to the poor guy's Chansey as well.
btw, anyone try out passing NP boosts to things like Moltres and Venomoth. I think it might work. I already swept with Agilitres on the first battle after passing it 2 NP boosts from Ambipom who set up on a Spiritomb. XD
Edit: I loled at the fact Flamethrower at +4 did 80% to the poor guy's Chansey as well.
Those aren't calcs those are stats. I agree with the above that Smeargle would have powerful influence on the metagame(more Primeape leads anyone?), but it's stats don't impress me at all. It's EXTREMELY frail and 75 speed isn't to fast. It can't do anything but support (Belly Drumming Smeargle sounds fun) and like most of the UU leads outspeed. If it's taunted, then it's rendered utterly useless.
Lol at Heracross in UU. It has no solid counters, it's decently bulky AND fast.
PS: Choice Scarf Trickform Smeargle looks EXTREMELY fun.
Lol at Heracross in UU. It has no solid counters, it's decently bulky AND fast.
PS: Choice Scarf Trickform Smeargle looks EXTREMELY fun.
Arcanine could be a decent check. It absolutely does not like switching into Close Combat (252/0 Arcanine takes ~65%, accounting for Guts/Intimidate) and Flare Blitz is a clean ohko, although if you use it after you switch into Close Combat you die, and if you use Morning Sun and Cross stays in you die. But still, if you switch into any other move you should be fine.
Lol your joking. Did you NOT read Bluewind's post? Seriously, Gallade is an inferior Heracross and is... BL. Heracross would rape this metagame up it's own asshole. Check him with Aerial ace? HP Flying? Give me a break. Scizor doesn't need to be *checked* like that. It's got a shit load of reliable counters in OU. Heracross has what like... 2/3 Checks?
Again I repeat, Gallade was banned for crushing stall. There's no slapping HP Fire or Flying around because most pokés have STABs that'll outdamage that anyway (at least HP Fire); and that is if they are given a chance to attack. Scizor at least has tons of safe switches due to its poor speed and is easily kept at bay as long as you don't mispredict and switch your Heatran/Magnezone (being this another huge factor Heracross =/= Scizor) on a Superpower; or hell just switch a Gyarados into it. The same can't be said about Cross.
If Heracross stays in the tier for any significant amount of time I can see full stall completely dying out and being replaced with Quick Stall, with the typical stall team having Pokemon like subtoxic moltres and TauntSplit MissyD.
My Lopunny will love these Smeargle leads.
Fast Sub leads like Kanga can deal with it. Also Zam just wrecks it, as does Failbipom. I guess that's a reason to finally use the lead set for once.
If Hera comes down remind me to pack a Weezing on every team. Or maybe Gligar? Would that work? >____>
Fast Sub leads like Kanga can deal with it. Also Zam just wrecks it, as does Failbipom. I guess that's a reason to finally use the lead set for once.
If Hera comes down remind me to pack a Weezing on every team. Or maybe Gligar? Would that work? >____>
What Galade lacked was corrected by his 'Perfect' movepool in the other.
Also, why is using Hp Flying/ Aerial Ace impractical? He will be a top threat, to that there is no question, are you going to not adjust to take on a top threat and then vote it BL?
Just because Heracross has Guts doesn't mean that he is totally unaffected by status, namely Paralysis.
I think people are to focused on what they are accustomed to using (eg: Venusuar, Milo, etc) and not focused enough on other practical, perfectly viable options.
"Scizor doesn't need to be *checked* like that. It's got a shit load of reliable counters in OU. Heracross has what like... 2/3 Checks?"
Heracross wasn't/ isn't a top threat, as indicated by usuage. Therefore, less teams were unwilling to sacrifice a move in order to stop him. Scizor has Pokemon such as Celebi and Gengar using Hp Fire in order to take him out... why would two Pokemon with much better attacking options use Hp Fire? Oh right, because they 'had' to adjust to a top threat.
Side note, why does stall have to exist in order for a 'balanced meta-game' to exist?
Also, why is using Hp Flying/ Aerial Ace impractical? He will be a top threat, to that there is no question, are you going to not adjust to take on a top threat and then vote it BL?
Just because Heracross has Guts doesn't mean that he is totally unaffected by status, namely Paralysis.
I think people are to focused on what they are accustomed to using (eg: Venusuar, Milo, etc) and not focused enough on other practical, perfectly viable options.
"Scizor doesn't need to be *checked* like that. It's got a shit load of reliable counters in OU. Heracross has what like... 2/3 Checks?"
Heracross wasn't/ isn't a top threat, as indicated by usuage. Therefore, less teams were unwilling to sacrifice a move in order to stop him. Scizor has Pokemon such as Celebi and Gengar using Hp Fire in order to take him out... why would two Pokemon with much better attacking options use Hp Fire? Oh right, because they 'had' to adjust to a top threat.
Side note, why does stall have to exist in order for a 'balanced meta-game' to exist?
I'd never feel confortable playing with pokés that can be OHKOed on the switch-in by things like Stone Edge/Night Slash respectively. If it ever dropped I bet we'd see things like Nidoqueen though, as it resists both STABs, Stone Edge, doesn't mind Night Slash that much and has Fire Blast. The the ladder would overfload with Nidoqueen, which you cause Cross to start running Earthquake to anti-metagame it and we're back to step 1.
Simply because HP Flying is often times weaker than a pokemon using their respective stab move of choice. My problem with Heracross is that it has so little counters. Seriously, it doesn't even HAVE any counters. Just a couple of threats. It would radically change the metagame, it single handily beats stall to a pulp. Pretty much every team would run Arcanine/Moltres to sorta take on Heracross.
It's been concluded that Weezing isn't even a counter. 2+ Facade OHKO's with rocks down.
Yeh, paralyze on a Guts pokémon is just nifty. Switch your Heracross into a Registeel's paralysis, pack some Pursuit support and enjoy as your Heracross does this with a CB to things like Moltres: 784 Atk vs 216 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 233 - 275 (72.59% - 85.67%). This is a Jolly Heracross.
People seem to live under the misconception Hidden Power X is viable on anything as long as it allows it to kill something. Latias using it is different from things like Mismagius using it; as the former is actually killing one of its main counters (Scizor), acting as the perfect bait and opening a sweep for itself or its teammates, while the latter only would use it to revenge kill. Your Gengar and Celebi examples just reinforce these ideas.
tl;dr: It hits too fucking hard, status won't cut it and Hidden Power is just poor metagaming.
Edit: Hi, Arcanine! (Max HP and 80 defense EVs): 573 Atk vs 216 Def & 384 HP (120 Base Power): 342 - 403 (89.06% - 104.95%). Bye Arcanine...
Edit2: I believe PK Gaming means Scizor has checks in OU, while Cross has none in UU.
IMO Gutsorb wouldn't be its best set....If you ask me a Sub + 3 attacks set would be really deadly, just like Alakazam. Choice is ok. Gutsorb would be good for stall, but against offense it's useless.
Because this is the UU Subforum:
LMAO.
Now that is a humorous comic. Did you make this?!?
More or less. MS Paint + Pery Bible Fellowship :P
You guys... I just forgot something about Aggron. It has base 180 Defense and it learns Metal Burst...
I've been messing around with a physical wall Aggron with Metal Burst for the hell of it. It attracts unstabbed Earthquakers and brick breakers like honey. Seriously killing a Venusaur that runs Earthquake is fun.
Earthquake deals: 44.2% - 52.3% (lefties) and 57% - 67.4% (life orb) respectively.
Running A shuca berry can help deal with Earthquake users even more. 2+ EQ will never OHKO while Metal Burst can severely dent it.
I figure:
Aggron @ Shuca Berry / Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
-Metal burst
-Head Smash
-filler / Stealth Rocks
-filler / Stealth Rocks
I'm considering on running a special version with Passho berry and max Special defense. It could be an even better bulky water lure than Steelix.
Now why would I use this over say... Bastidion who is a lot bulkier? Well for one it's pretty darn obvious on what Bastiodion plans on doing. One look at it's analysis spills the beans right then and there. Aggron has the luxury of being known as a primarily offensive pokemon.
These are just in testing to heads up.
I've been messing around with a physical wall Aggron with Metal Burst for the hell of it. It attracts unstabbed Earthquakers and brick breakers like honey. Seriously killing a Venusaur that runs Earthquake is fun.
Earthquake deals: 44.2% - 52.3% (lefties) and 57% - 67.4% (life orb) respectively.
Running A shuca berry can help deal with Earthquake users even more. 2+ EQ will never OHKO while Metal Burst can severely dent it.
I figure:
Aggron @ Shuca Berry / Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
-Metal burst
-Head Smash
-filler / Stealth Rocks
-filler / Stealth Rocks
I'm considering on running a special version with Passho berry and max Special defense. It could be an even better bulky water lure than Steelix.
Now why would I use this over say... Bastidion who is a lot bulkier? Well for one it's pretty darn obvious on what Bastiodion plans on doing. One look at it's analysis spills the beans right then and there. Aggron has the luxury of being known as a primarily offensive pokemon.
These are just in testing to heads up.
You shouldn't have revealed it. Now it's going to infest the ladder. XD
Seriously, though. It could work. The passho one would be even less obvious. You sure it survives a Surf, though?
Seriously, though. It could work. The passho one would be even less obvious. You sure it survives a Surf, though?
An Aggron Lead set I used briefly during this test...
Aggron @ Passho
248 Hp /252 Atk / 8 Spe
Head Smash
EQ
Curse
Metal Burst
It looked super-sexy on paper but I quickly found out that Dugtrio can still OHKO after Curse boost... and since the ladder is worthless when it comes to match-ups, I repeated matches with the same people and they started to use Hidden Power on Aggron until they could safely KO with Surf.
Aggron @ Passho
248 Hp /252 Atk / 8 Spe
Head Smash
EQ
Curse
Metal Burst
It looked super-sexy on paper but I quickly found out that Dugtrio can still OHKO after Curse boost... and since the ladder is worthless when it comes to match-ups, I repeated matches with the same people and they started to use Hidden Power on Aggron until they could safely KO with Surf.
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