Cloyster and Omastar would probably become the most common because they have access to both Tspikes and Spikes and Cloyster can also spin
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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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Yeah, Cloyster does outclass it in a lot of ways. If you're not abusing Glalie's better movepool, superior speed, different typing, or Ice Body, Cloyster would be the way to go. Still, something to consider in case it fits a niche on peoples' team.
It's very optimistic to use "if" in that sentence ._.
I'm not looking forward to UU without Froslass, I just know it needs to be done. Spikestacking has been my most reliable and successful strategy thus far, and I can tell it's due mostly to the merits of my opponent incurring ridiculous amounts of free damage every switch-in rather than my merits as a player.
I'm mostly playing UU to abuse the Suspects and see if they're worth all they're cracked up to be. If we get rid of them all, I probably won't have any reason to play. I'm extremely doubtful Moltres will make it out of the tier this round, so I'm looking to abuse the hell out of that in the next one.
I'm mostly playing UU to abuse the Suspects and see if they're worth all they're cracked up to be. If we get rid of them all, I probably won't have any reason to play. I'm extremely doubtful Moltres will make it out of the tier this round, so I'm looking to abuse the hell out of that in the next one.
I like the suspects just because it's fun to play around a team using broken shit with my own Trollmons...but I absolutely will not miss them. Especially not Whorelass, because at least getting swept by a Raikou is a good way to go, as opposed to taking 37% every switch and then dying to min SATK Milotic's surf or something.
Who do you think will replace Raikou? A speedy special attacker with no SR weakness and good defenses. People have been saying Mismagius but it does not really appeal to me as a top-tier pokemon with its pursuit weakness and shitastic 60 hp and defense.
In my opinon UU voters are to keen to ban hard hitters and things that dont have 110% counters.
In my opinon UU voters are to keen to ban hard hitters and things that dont have 110% counters.
Not much can replace Raikou and it's mostly because of that awesome spd stat only being outsped by a few pokes
Looking back, I'm just noticing how horrible electric type as a whole in UU/NU is. It is like a sort of bottleneck where you have things like Zapdos and Electivire in OU but things like Lanturn and light orb Pikachu in UU.
The only other good electric types I see are Luxray and Electabuzz. Luxray has Flareon syndrome with a great attack stat but no good physical stab moves.
I could've sworn Electabuzz had an analysis.
The only other good electric types I see are Luxray and Electabuzz. Luxray has Flareon syndrome with a great attack stat but no good physical stab moves.
I could've sworn Electabuzz had an analysis.
Manectric can try to do what Kou does. Charge Beam/Tbolt/Flamethrower/HP Ice or HP Grass or Substitute. It's slightly slower and weaker and a hell of a lot less bulky, but it's still a very underrated poke. Hell, if it got Calm Mind I'd probably use it over 'Kou, because it can run through Steelix, Registeel, and Venusaur with just one move. Alas, Charge Beam is a bit unreliable at times.
About the Bulky waters thing, Milotic 2KOs with surf. Combined with switching in, Raichu has no chance to set up against the #1 bulky water.
Lanturn 2KOs Raichu while Grass Knot only 2KOs and +2
Luidicolo has a chance of 1ko meaning Raichu cannot switch in in.
Every other bulky water is already koed by thunderbolt.
Lanturn 2KOs Raichu while Grass Knot only 2KOs and +2
Luidicolo has a chance of 1ko meaning Raichu cannot switch in in.
Every other bulky water is already koed by thunderbolt.
That's why you don't switch Raichu on any attack.
Easy, isn't it?
I didn't said Raichu has to switch in on bulky waters. I said Raichu can use them to set itself up.
Anyway: Raichu is the closest we can get to Raikou offensively speaking.
Defensively? Stick with Rotom, Lanturn or Ampharos.
A mix of bulk, power and speed? No replacement, of course.
Easy, isn't it?
I didn't said Raichu has to switch in on bulky waters. I said Raichu can use them to set itself up.
Anyway: Raichu is the closest we can get to Raikou offensively speaking.
Defensively? Stick with Rotom, Lanturn or Ampharos.
A mix of bulk, power and speed? No replacement, of course.
Honestly, that's like saying "guys Gligar Swords Danced twice and Rock Polished once and Baton Passed to Feraligatr and swept my entire team, broken!!!" Yeah Froslass will get up entry hazards, but 3 layers of Spikes AND Stealth Rock? That's four turns of time spent. Can't you achieve something yourself in that four turns, or attempt to spin?
It's my experience that Stealth Rock going up can't be helped, and maybe Stealth Rock + one layer of Spikes if my opponent is intent on it. More than that though I should have some compensation elsewhere (Raikou behind a sub, screens are up, my own Stealth Rock down, etc).
Apparently you are not farmiliar with how hazards setting works. It does not work like this: "Opponent sets up hazards indiscriminately for 4 turns while I can do whatever I want." It works like this: "Opponent sets up hazards one at a time, using free turns gained by proper switches." For instance, Froslass doesn't set up spikes on my sweepers, it sets up spikes as I try to spin with Donphan and get cockspinblocked. 4 free turns in a match are relatively easy to get against most players (not me, obviously, but then I'm...me).
Then you should have your share of free turns to do something too. What did you do to them? Did you score KOs? Did you get damage that isn't easily recovered on your opponent's walls? Did you get your own Stealth Rock down? Did you set up rain? What happened to your free turns? Honestly if you let your opponent get up 3 layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock and have nothing to show for it, you deserve to lose.
PS: If only spinblocking were that easy ...
PS: If only spinblocking were that easy ...
If you let whorelass get a free turn, your ability to create free turns is sharply reduced for the rest of the match, because spikes greatly discourage double switching and prediction in general. This makes you very predictable (or it makes your Pokemon very dead from switching around a lot), which in turn means more free turns for your opponent. The reason Froslass is particularly insidious about this compared to other spikers is because it can block Rapid Spin and Spike at the same time. So even if you manage to switch Donphan in on something it can wall, you can't just Spin willy-nilly. If you try, you're just giving your opponent more spikes. On the other hand, if you attack (and even if that attacks kills Froslass, which isn't likely) your opponent will be able to force out Donphan with something like Moltres, at which point it will no longer be able to spin (after all the passive damage and the damage it took coming in, it'll barely be alive the next time it comes in). Other spikers do not have this quirk; Donphan wins against Qwilfish, Hitmontop wins against Omastar/Cloyster, Blastoise wins against all of them. This is because they can spin as the opponent spikes, rendering any momentum pointless.
You don't get "free" turns because of Taunt + resistances + attempts to prevent Spikes.
For example, I send Froslass in on Scarf Venusaur's Sludge Bomb. It can "not give me" free turns by attacking, but I would set up in its face. It is forced to give me a free turn by switching otherwise dealing with 3 Spikes in one sitting.
There are other scenarios like this where Froslass either checks, "walls", or shuts down the opposing Pokemon where it would get free turns.
Just because one player gets free turns, does NOT mean the other player does (in fact, quite the contrary). This is especially true for Froslass with a fast Taunt / Ice Beam.
So if I send in Raikou against Froslass, I still don't get a free turn? Or if I send in Mismagius against Froslass, Froslass will (courageously) stay in and Taunt? Froslass may be a good spiker, but please don't pretend each time you use it you're guaranteed 3 layers of spikes. It's not happened to me this round - nor to you, I'm sure. Also you should get free turns against other Pokemon in his team, it's part of the natural ebb and flow of the game. So you also have free turns to put your own plans into motion, plans your opponent may be forced to counter at the cost of not getting up more Spikes.
I'll say again that if you let your opponent set up 3 layers of Spikes + Stealth Rock and have nothing to show in compensation, you must've misplayed. It's like letting your opponent set up 3 layers of Spikes + Rain + get Kabutops in safely. This kind of major advantage doesn't come without a mistake somewhere.
PS: Flare your Donphan sure gets worn down quickly. How do you take ~70% damage from something you can force out?
I'll say again that if you let your opponent set up 3 layers of Spikes + Stealth Rock and have nothing to show in compensation, you must've misplayed. It's like letting your opponent set up 3 layers of Spikes + Rain + get Kabutops in safely. This kind of major advantage doesn't come without a mistake somewhere.
PS: Flare your Donphan sure gets worn down quickly. How do you take ~70% damage from something you can force out?
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