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np: UU Stage 5 - Every Rose Has Its Thorns

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Godsend said:
As for Scrafty, the difference between it and other top threats in the metagame is it's bulk. It is capable of getting a lot of lots of boosts when combined with Shed Skin or Moxie. Also, people keep saying it only has "90 base attack" but you seem to forget that Kingdra"only" has 95. Is 11 attack really that big of a difference? I'm not saying it'll be broken, it's just something to consider.

I'm glad we aren't going to retest Hail, because there was a lot broken with it, not just Snow Cloak.
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I'm not saying scrafty won't be a threat in the meta, I'm just saying you guys are over hyping it. Kingdra has more than enough bulk to set up with better resistances and an equally good stab combo to go with it. It also has a good stab in outrage, which while has a drawback like hjk, it's not nearly has bad as losig half you health. Kingdra is also no where near broken so likening him to scrafty reeally helps my case.

Also I'll post calcs when I'm on my computer which shows drain punch scrafty is walled by a lot of shit. You can have thAt much bulk, but you are still 2hkoed by any competent attacker, and anything with decent bulk can easily take a hit.

Also sorry for misspelling, I'm on an itouch
 
I think scrafty would have a hard time getting a decent amount of boosts due to the power of so much stuff in UU and not having many handy resistances to abuse, unlike kingdra is my point. Phazing is also substantialy more common in UU with pretty much every bulky water (again, on almost every team) carrying a phazing move.

This doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to be a threat in UU if put in the right hands, though.
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure its all this overhype that's even kept Scrafty OU for this long... so cool it.

Anyway, I'd like for the council to actualy get together one of these days so we can talk about Deo-D. I've been trying to get us all together for the past week and a half -_-
 
prem said:
I'm not saying scrafty won't be a threat in the meta, I'm just saying you guys are over hyping it. Kingdra has more than enough bulk to set up with better resistances and an equally good stab combo to go with it. It also has a good stab in outrage, which while has a drawback like hjk, it's not nearly has bad as losig half you health. Kingdra is also no where near broken so likening him to scrafty reeally helps my case.

Also I'll post calcs when I'm on my computer which shows drain punch scrafty is walled by a lot of shit. You can have thAt much bulk, but you are still 2hkoed by any competent attacker, and anything with decent bulk can easily take a hit.

Also sorry for misspelling, I'm on an itouch
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That was... kind of the point. I was supporting you, because I never thought it'd be broken, just good, much like Kingdra. It'll be a bulky set up attacker, that one must prepare for, that's it.
 
Bulk Up Scrafty will probably be godlike. Heracross is still a counter, but at +2, it takes just about half or under from Machamp's DynamicPunch with Lefties and can wail on it if confusion doesn't kick in. Hitmontop has no chance to beat it if it even gets one boost and lets Scrafty just Bulk Up some more. Togekiss is probably the only decent Flying-type with the potential to beat it, maybe Swellow if anyone is tempted to use that, so we're mostly going to be looking at our bulky Fighting-types to do the trick (which I fear will just translate to everyone using Heracross).
 
Add very strong special attacker like Specs Chandelure and LO Roserade. The first can deal 80% minimum with Overheat, and the latter can use Sleep Podwer and 2hko with Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm.

But i agree Bulk Up Scrafty may easily be one of the hardest UU mons to face, IF it comes down.
 
The worst part is you have to be careful about sending in roserade or chandelure until you know its bulk up or it could ddance up and crunch/ice punch/hi jump kick you
 
I'm not a fan of bulk up Scrafty. Even in OU, it was too slow to accomplish anything worthwhile. I could see it being fodder for things like CB or SD Hera, smashed by Specs Kingdra, etc.

DD on the other hand, scares the livingcrap out of me. It doesn't give a shit about the best fighting type counter in the tier (Gligar) it gets Moxie (already ridiculously powerful on Krookodile) base 130 attacking move (90% accuracy is shit, but that power is worth it) and the ability to bypass ghost types, and to top it all off its fast enough to outspeed every relevant speed tier in OU after 1 DD. I'm not saying it will be broken, but I think we should give it the respect it deserves, lest we get penetrated by its sheer...power, when it arrives in UU.
 
Straw Hat Luffy said:
I'm not a fan of bulk up Scrafty. Even in OU, it was too slow to accomplish anything worthwhile. I could see it being fodder for things like CB or SD Hera, smashed by Specs Kingdra, etc.

DD on the other hand, scares the livingcrap out of me. It doesn't give a shit about the best fighting type counter in the tier (Gligar) it gets Moxie (already ridiculously powerful on Krookodile) base 130 attacking move (90% accuracy is shit, but that power is worth it) and the ability to bypass ghost types, and to top it all off its fast enough to outspeed every relevant speed tier in OU after 1 DD. I'm not saying it will be broken, but I think we should give it the respect it deserves, lest we get penetrated by its sheer...power, when it arrives in UU.
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Exactly my thougts, but I think the biggest problem Bulk Up Scrafty faces in OU is the rather low power he has when uninvested and the fact that every team counters it easily without even trying due to (again) the low initial power, and it was pretty much outclassed by Bulk Up Conkeldurr on most situations (Don't misunderstand me, I know BU Scrafty has quite some advantages over Conkeldurr)

And yeah, Dragon Dance seems it would be the best Scrafty set out there, also, don't be fooled by Heracross double STAB resistance, as +1 Hi Jump Kick easily 2HKO'es (for example, with LO is 67-79%), which basically means Heracross can only switch in once (asumming you hit him the first time on the switch) unless it's scarfed (something you can abuse in some other way).

@Spuds 4 ever: well, the difference is that Chandelure and Darmanitan are usually Choiced Attackers, and Scrafty is a set up one. Godsend example is great, Kingdra has 95/95 base attacking stats and it's one of the, if not the most feared threat in the metagame.
And Hitmontop is not such a good Bisharp counter, you raise his attack +1 stage when you switch in on it, just nitpicking though.
 
When testing it in OU, I found that Bulk Up Scrafty sounds good on paper, but is rather mediocre in practice. Even after a BU, it's pretty easy to knock out with any decently powered Superpower or Brave Bird, and its durability is hindered by the unreliability of Shed Skin. Dragon Dance Moxie versions, on the other hand, are faster than much of the meta at +1 and can get past many tough physical walls like Gligar, which have an easy time with Bulk Up. If you let it boost more than once with Moxie, you're probably screwed...

Scrafty will just never be able to get past Hitmontop, though. If DD Life Orb versions become the new craze, I can see Technitop rising in usage, which is a really underrated set IMO. Fake Out + Mach Punch is just incredible with SR & Spikes and is very effective on those offensive teams that need a way to pick off set-up sweepers.
 
Technitop is also incredible for being walled, as Zapdos, Mew, Slowbro, Sableye, and even Dusclops will be around the corner to punish you for using it. That's probably one of the main reasons it's not around these days, outside of not being able to use Rapid Spin as efficiently as its defensive set.
 
Not if it has stone edge, foresight, payback, and toxic!!!

While still having mach punch and fake out...

Seriously, scrafty is scary enough in OU, where at least skarmory can wall him and smack him around with brave birds. I don't see anything that can really do that much to him here. Slowbro is hit hard by STAB, so is rhyperior, and tangrowth can't really do that much back, what with drain punch, good bulk, and shed skin to block sleep powder. I guess you'll need to have a specsnadus?

I was talking about dragon dance up there, but bulk up seems even better down here-special bulk goes a little farther and he doesn't need ice punch any more, so he can run rest without getting destroyed by SD taunt scor. All i'm seeing here are checks that may not even be able to OHKO a lot of the time.
 
SJCrew said:
Technitop is also incredible for being walled, as Zapdos, Mew, Slowbro, Sableye, and even Dusclops will be around the corner to punish you for using it. That's probably one of the main reasons it's not around these days, outside of not being able to use Rapid Spin as efficiently as its defensive set.
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The idea is that Technitop forces people to switch their sweepers into their Hitmontop counters, which lets you rack up hazards damage and halt their momentum. Pair it up with a good spinblocker and you should be set.

And Rapid Spin is bad on Technitop. Very bad.
 
I've used Rapid Spin on Technitop many times before. It works wonders when you're out of options, which happens frequently when deciding on a spinner for a UU team. But then again, I use a LOT of SR weak shit so it's partially my fault.
 
Rapid spin can work on anything if you need it enough.

Technitop is just still too easy to wall in my opinion and in a metagame with insanely powerful threats around, giving a nice and easy switch to something like heracross can potentially lose you the game.

On a different note, I've been playing quite a lot of HO in UU. It's an extremely simple team, 2 cores of offensive pokemon, one that makes offense cry, and the other that causes stall to soil its pants, no hazards either and it has 5 physical pokemon and 1 special. It actually works very effectively as you just apply so much pressure that your opponent is given 0 breathing room, especially when you spice things up with volt switch and u turn and then it's just a matter of short time before your opponent's check to your CB heracross or whatever snaps and they are forced to sacrifice things every time it switches in. I was quite surprised that it worked so well (kudos to double01 for giving me the idea) and with so many viable offensive threats in UU, it's very easy to make great synergy for the team.
 
spuds4ever said:
Rapid spin can work on anything if you need it enough.

Technitop is just still too easy to wall in my opinion and in a metagame with insanely powerful threats around, giving a nice and easy switch to something like heracross can potentially lose you the game.

On a different note, I've been playing quite a lot of HO in UU. It's an extremely simple team, 2 cores of offensive pokemon, one that makes offense cry, and the other that causes stall to soil its pants, no hazards either and it has 5 physical pokemon and 1 special. It actually works very effectively as you just apply so much pressure that your opponent is given 0 breathing room, especially when you spice things up with volt switch and u turn and then it's just a matter of short time before your opponent's check to your CB heracross or whatever snaps and they are forced to sacrifice things every time it switches in. I was quite surprised that it worked so well (kudos to double01 for giving me the idea) and with so many viable offensive threats in UU, it's very easy to make great synergy for the team.
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Of course HO works wonders in UU. It's the only type of team I have used since january and as long as you predict correctly and have a way of breaking both offensive and deffensive teams you should fine. Basically, what I focus when using offensive teams is to see what pokemon on my team has the biggest chances of sweeping and try to weaken his counter.

Btw, having used both HO teams with and without spikes, the difference is completely huge, and I noticed how much easier was laddering with spikes.
 
The results of the vote should be announced today, unless I'm mistaken in believing all the senators have sent in their paragraphs already. I know Snunch sent in his last night, and Upstart sent in his a couple nights ago. Those were the last two afaik.

edit: well shit.
 
I'm in the process of writing my paragraph as I type this, sorry for the delay. Needless to say, even without my paragraph it's going to be booted.
 
ToF said:
I'm in the process of writing my paragraph as I type this, sorry for the delay. Needless to say, even without my paragraph it's going to be booted.
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What he said.

I've been busy with SPL and life, but I'll be able to get my paragraph in either tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
 
calm yourself. the server is lagging so hard anyway. i can guaruntee you its either a 6-1 ban or 7-0 ban. just start making a new team for a no deo-d meta. also nothing is dropping i believe so dont worry about scrafty its still ou
 
All the paragraphs are in, were just waiting on Jabba to announce the results

(this time for real)

((it was a unanimous ban))
 
Don't get pissy at the senators. Whenever the ladder can be updated to reflect the change, D-D will be banned and the next np topic will be posted.
 
JabbaTheGriffin said:
Don't get pissy at the senators. Whenever the ladder can be updated to reflect the change, D-D will be banned and the next np topic will be posted.
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Wasn't trying to be a dick, just asking a question.

And all my teams are set for a deo-less metagame, I bet I'm excited as you are...
 
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