np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Alright well I had planned on holding out on suspect testing until at least a month to see what Pokemon shifted in and out of UU. However it has become apparent through LonelyNess's constant bitching that there are a few things that if considered broken, will be broken no matter what shifts occur over the next couple months. For this reason, we're going to create an initial banlist with a faster test than we would normally have.

The testing period will last 3 weeks, ending on midnight est May 23rd (technically the 24th). The voting requirement will be a flat 1400. Also, if there is enough of a clamor for it, I am very open to the idea of a quickban, so keep that in mind when posting.

 

[Iconic]

woo first

drought is really broken so let's ban it everyone!

 

[PK Gaming]

Alright R1 UU, i'm psyched! Maybe after we ban the broken shit UU will be the best tier ever?!? Its possible.

 

[Virizion]

I'd hate to see Chansey go. Every tier needs its own pink blob (NU gets Wigglytuff).

 

[Snunch]

I support a quickban on either drought or victini, but not both because victini in a droughtless metagame might (might) be balanced.

Other than that, I'm pumped for uu. Cant wait to see how some of the old BLs and OUs fare.

 

[Benlisted]

Personally I don't like the idea of an off the bat ban for anything, but I can see why it'd be a possibility. Would just like to dissuade people from banning something like Vulpix or Aboma for their weather calling abilities outright straight away via quickban since it's difficult to determine the effect of the support they give without at least a few weeks of testing. Something like Victini I could understand a lot more since it's so much easier to define if an offensive pokemon is broken, but I still don't like the idea much.

Anyway, it's unfortunate that this period falls pretty much exactly on my exams, so I won't be able to take part in the birth of UU as much as I'd like :(.

 

[Honko]

Victini will almost certainly be OU next month anyway. I assume the only reason it didn't make it this month is because V-Create wasn't released until near the end.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I would really like to avoid quick bans. People bitching less than a day into the metagame are really just being whiny and aren't even trying to toy with the new meta. Play around a bit, experiment with new stuff, run Dugtrio a lot (because it's awesome), and just let the metagame settle. We'll know soon enough what's over the top and what isn't.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

wow i reeeeaaaaaaaaaallly want to play some but rl pressure is such a bitch

i'm building a team when possible

and using all the broken shit of course

 

[steviestar]

Victini will almost certainly be OU next month anyway. I assume the only reason it didn't make it this month is because V-Create wasn't released until near the end.

Yeah V-Create came out in the middle of the month. Before its release there was no reason to use Victini. I doubt he'll be UU for long.

 

[Afti]

Dammit, this UU metagame looks really interesting and fun, and I can't play because Magnet Train is eating my free time...

At some point I intend to build a team, though. Assuming Victini isn't quickbanned, I'll abuse that.

(read: Victini's going to be banned within a week, Drought V-Create is scary)

 

[Paradox]

Kyurem is also very dangerous. Dragon STAB with Base 130 attacking stats and a ton of bulk is fantastic. Someone was using a SubKyurem which was pretty tough to deal with.

Slowbro is amazing, though as a defensive threat I don't see it getting banned ever (it could definitely make OU though).

Hail>Sun

Edit: V-Create isn't really as scary as people are making it out to be. Slowbro, Kingdra, and Flash Fire mons like Houndoom or maybe Arcanine can all deal with Vicinti pretty well, and I'm sure there are other things I haven't considered yet. Yes it is very powerful, but not even remotely unstoppable.

 

[charizard24]

Wow, that was fast. I didn't expect to see this thread for another month at least. I doubt we should ban anything for the moment. As most of the broken stuff will probably sort itself out slowly. Honestly guys, the metagame is a day old and we're already bitching about broken shit. Just play UU and have fun for the moment.

 

[Zephyr]

Alright a new metagame too play in, ready to go!

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Wow, that was fast. I didn't expect to see this thread for another month at least. I doubt we should ban anything for the moment. As most of the broken stuff will probably sort itself out slowly. Honestly guys, the metagame is a day old and we're already bitching about broken shit. Just play UU and have fun for the moment.

On this note, I'd like to thank everybody behind the scenes who helped get UU up and running for us so quickly. I genuinely though we'd get it like 4 months after the first set of usage statistics or something, so I'm very pleased. Thanks everyone. :)

About Victini, as Honko said, it's almost certainly going to be OU by next month anyway. Not that we should let this effect the testing, of course.

 

[Thorhammer]

Quickbans shouldn't even be considered at this stage. I hope that doesn't take any explanation.

This seems like as good of a time as any for me to start playing UU for the first time. So many interesting Pokemon to try out...

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Quickbans shouldn't even be considered at this stage. I hope that doesn't take any explanation.

Actually a statement like that would require some explanation. If ever there was a time for quickbans to be considered, it would be at the beginning of a new test. The initial banlist for OU was essentially a quickban without a test. I'm not saying that the option will be given (and even if it is, it'll be insanely hard to ban something through the use of a quick ban). But saying it shouldn't be considered at the stage where it makes most sense to consider it definitely should be explained. I'd love to hear opinions on the matter obviously, but please back them up with reasoning.

 

[ENZ0]

man I wish OU banning followed this; we would get a better metagame much faster, which UU looks headed to :D.

 

[kokoloko]

Drought is broken. Was broken as shit on POS, its still broken as shit on Smogon.

Kyurem, Azelf and Mew are also broken, but not as much with sun around, so I guess ban sun first.

 

[SJCrew]

lol now that you mention it Koko, our banlist is probably going to look a lot like PO server's.

Besides the obvious complaints this meta, there's probably going to be a lot of centralization around Baton Passers too, considering we have Gorebyss and the like lurking UU. Also saw some Deo-D on the ladder earlier, which I was not happy about; after two of my key members died, I had no way at all of beating him. CB Heracross time.

 

[BKC]

Awesome, can't wait to play this. Time to abuse broken mons!

 

[Aerrow]

Ok, I'm really psyched .. can't wait to see how stuff like Kyurem turn out to be.

 

[Thorhammer]

Actually a statement like that would require some explanation. If ever there was a time for quickbans to be considered, it would be at the beginning of a new test. The initial banlist for OU was essentially a quickban without a test. I'm not saying that the option will be given (and even if it is, it'll be insanely hard to ban something through the use of a quick ban). But saying it shouldn't be considered at the stage where it makes most sense to consider it definitely should be explained. I'd love to hear opinions on the matter obviously, but please back them up with reasoning.

Fair enough.

At the beginning of a series of tests within a metagame is one thing, but at the beginning of a new metagame, when we're still trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, there's really no basis upon which to determine what will turn out to work and what won't. No one's seen anything about what strategies will work and what won't.

Consider the following scenario: Sun overwhelms the UU metagame, and Drought is quickbanned. Later in the testing period, Rain Dance teams rise in usage and effectiveness - not to the point of being broken, but to the point where they could have balanced out Sun teams. However, Drought has already been banned. At the end of the testing period, it turns out that the rain teams don't work to balance out the hail teams, which became broken when sun was removed. As a result, Abonasnow is banned. When people call for a retest of sun and hail, because they could both have been balanced if they were both allowed because of the presence of Rain Dance, they are pushed aside in favor of finishing the current tests. As a result, it takes months before the bans are revisited, and various other bans happen in the meantime. If the bans ever are revisited, the conditions of the test will be tainted by the other bans that happened. If one or both of the weathers fail the test and are left in BL, there will surely be arguments that they might have been balanced if other Pokemon that are now BL had been permitted. If one or both of the weathers pass the test and return to UU, there will surely be arguments that other Pokemon that are now BL might have been balanced by the presence of that weather. Either way, the overall result is far more hassle and unrest than would have otherwise been necessary.

And let's look at Smogon's history, and peoples' current attitudes. If a quickban of any sort happens, what are the chances that it won't be followed by a scenario like this one? I wouldn't even give it a 1% chance. If we quickban in a situation like this, disaster is guaranteed.

As for OU's ban list... I can't say I supported the initial ban list in the first place, but at least the one that was accepted was a different matter because there weren't any assumptions behind it. The only Pokemon that were initially banned had a BST of 670+, at least one stat of 150+, no stats below 90, and no unusual limitations in terms of movepool or ability. These were all concrete reasons to suggest that they would be broken. Is there anything anywhere close to as concrete to suggest that a Pokemon in the current UU tier would be broken? I'm inclined to say no.

And with that, I'm off to make a Rain Dance team.

 

[kokoloko]

lol now that you mention it Koko, our banlist is probably going to look a lot like PO server's.

Besides the obvious complaints this meta, there's probably going to be a lot of centralization around Baton Passers too, considering we have Gorebyss and the like lurking UU. Also saw some Deo-D on the ladder earlier, which I was not happy about; after two of my key members died, I had no way at all of beating him. CB Heracross time.

Yeah, I'm sure it will. Except without Latias since people are actually smart and use it in OU here.

Deo-D isn't that bad, it kinda fits nicely into UU (the lack of good spinners does suck though). Baton Pass is pretty good with Nidoking as a recipient (Electric- immunity helps), since it has Sheer Force, and amazing coverage. It even has Sucker Punch for priority users, but I don't think it can use it with Sheer Force.

V-Create Victini is actually not that hard to pay around. Sun makes it a bit harder, but it still has a hell of a time trying to get past Slowbro, Suicune, Milotic, Swampert (who should really be UU by now...) and physically defensive Arcanine. Darmanitan's Flare Blitz actually hits harder than Victini's V-Create, so yeah.

Lets see, what else. Mew's best set is the Taunt + Will-O-Wisp one, but most people already knew that. Kyurem's best set isn't fully offensive, btw, its too slow and has an SR weakness that makes his life crap trying t do hit-and-run.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Hone Claws
- Substitute
- Protect

This is the set that pushed Kyurem into BL on POS. Use it with Deo-D for hazards and watch your opponent cry himself to sleep. Bulky as fuck subs, Pressure, Hone Claws for free turns and perfect accuracy Dragon Tail, and Protect cause its useful and there's really nothing else you need. Shortened Taunt from Gen 4 helps a lot, too.

Azelf won't be that threatening until sun is banned, but once it is, its a bitch to take on. Its Nasty Plot set rapes like 90% of the tier, since Chansey won't enjoy a +2 Psyshock.

Wanna beat Sun easily? Use Rain Dance Kingdra. Shit is still strong as fuck and people are letting Vulpix die so easily.

 

[Oglemi]

I actually haven't seen a single Victini on the ladder as of yet.

SubSeed Abomasnow is what can really kiss my ass. I forgot how annoying it and Walrein can be... >.<

Also, I overestimated Cresselia. Deoxys-D and Suicune are so much better.

Also, freaking Donphan is everywhere. That's something I didn't really expect, but I guess everyone needs a spinner, and he fills the role quite nicely.