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np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days

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I'd really like a UU with no auto-weather, but I'm going to throw in with the crowd that wants to see how Drought goes with no Victini to take advantage of it and Abomasnow being the strongest weather inducer.

In OU, Ninetales can at least be somewhat useful if you use her right, but even at NU-level play, Vulpix is about as useful as a sack of hammers and people still need to waste a slot on it if they want perma-sun. If sun is still dominant in UU without Victini to take advantage of it, though, I'd be behind banning drought.

Kyurem's pretty ridiculous, though. Even if it's not strong enough to make the OU cut, that thing's got BL written all over it.
 
More I play UU as there are actually a few more things which are pretty BL banworthy.

The main suspects have been mentioned already Victini, Zapdos, Chansey, Kyurem (I still consider this in need of quickban) but I think theres a few more that can easily be considered. I actually don't consider the weather inducers suspect due to how it seems to only actually be like one or two abusers who actually make them ridiculous. With UU its always more sensible to ban individuals to BL who upset it.


Wobbuffet-
Odd I'd bring this up all of a sudden but the reason is actually similar to Gen 3 reason that it creates a stalemate...simple reason is Xatu and Espeon. Neither of those two we would consider exactly breaking the whole game as they have exposable weaknesses and require prediction. The huge problem is if a Wobbuffet comes in...neither of them can do anything to each other. Yes your opponent can switch out, but from what I've seen they are normally simply far too stubborn to go and actually attempt to turn it into a Struggle stall. Sorry but I do not want to wait for 80 turns for my screens to run out whilst I watch you fail Encore/Tickle over and over again. Its actually not that common but key issue is just the sheer absurdity of it all and that its even possible to aim for a ragequit instead of simply taking advantage.


OU Eviolite-
Need to explain this one, I wanted to kick a discussion off on this. What I'm concerned mainly about is OU NFE's abusing Eviolite. This was a pretty fierce debate last gen but its pretty legitimate when the item makes some NFE's far superior or equals to their evolution on the exact same fronts, Gligar and Chansey falls into here.

Honestly what is the point of playing UU if these kind of things are possible? Chansey, Ferroseed and Gligar are virtually identical to their final evo's just slightly weaker. It does not do the game a favour when some of the best defensive Pokemon are minime's of top OU Pokemon.


Suicune-
I'm abit on the wall about this to be honest. On one hand its actually checking some otherwise nearly unstoppable stuff in UU at the moment. But at the same time I think if some of these greater offensive threats are to go. Suicune would become the bulky booster from hell and take their void. My assumption is this would be suspect much further down the line after a few rounds.
 
OK, so after some more battling I have officially changed one of my opinions. I used to think Chansey was good, but not soo good that it needed to go right away. Just good enough so that it deserved a test. Well, I don't think that anymore. Chansey needs to get the hell out of UU right now.

(Though on a side note I did just beat a Chansey by flinching it 4 consecutive times with Yanmega. Best moment of my night. Though the very fact that that is the only way I could beat it should speak for itself)
 
Forsety said:
More I play UU as there are actually a few more things which are pretty BL banworthy.

The main suspects have been mentioned already Victini, Zapdos, Chansey, Kyurem (I still consider this in need of quickban) but I think theres a few more that can easily be considered. I actually don't consider the weather inducers suspect due to how it seems to only actually be like one or two abusers who actually make them ridiculous. With UU its always more sensible to ban individuals to BL who upset it.


Wobbuffet-
Odd I'd bring this up all of a sudden but the reason is actually similar to Gen 3 reason that it creates a stalemate...simple reason is Xatu and Espeon. Neither of those two we would consider exactly breaking the whole game as they have exposable weaknesses and require prediction. The huge problem is if a Wobbuffet comes in...neither of them can do anything to each other. Yes your opponent can switch out, but from what I've seen they are normally simply far too stubborn to go and actually attempt to turn it into a Struggle stall. Sorry but I do not want to wait for 80 turns for my screens to run out whilst I watch you fail Encore/Tickle over and over again. Its actually not that common but key issue is just the sheer absurdity of it all and that its even possible to aim for a ragequit instead of simply taking advantage.


OU Eviolite-
Need to explain this one, I wanted to kick a discussion off on this. What I'm concerned mainly about is OU NFE's abusing Eviolite. This was a pretty fierce debate last gen but its pretty legitimate when the item makes some NFE's far superior or equals to their evolution on the exact same fronts, Gligar and Chansey falls into here.

Honestly what is the point of playing UU if these kind of things are possible? Chansey, Ferroseed and Gligar are virtually identical to their final evo's just slightly weaker. It does not do the game a favour when some of the best defensive Pokemon are minime's of top OU Pokemon.


Suicune-
I'm abit on the wall about this to be honest. On one hand its actually checking some otherwise nearly unstoppable stuff in UU at the moment. But at the same time I think if some of these greater offensive threats are to go. Suicune would become the bulky booster from hell and take their void. My assumption is this would be suspect much further down the line after a few rounds.
Click to expand...

I personally think you're banhappy.

Victini, Kyurem, Wobbuffet, and maybe Chansey are the only things I would consider suspect this round.

I actually have used OU Eviolite pokes (in fact a whole team) and for the most part they either played differently or just didn't do very well. Ferroseed lacks any offensive presence, unlike ferrothorn, meaning the magic bouncers (who are more common in UU) laugh at it. Scyther plays if anything like the less common SD roost scizor, only it uses tech stab aerial ace instead of bullet punch, and pretty much lacks coverage so runs BP often. Drillbur sucks, hippo's just for sand, gligar doesn't have poison heal which is gliscor's big thing, chansey might be too much but it's the one pokemon, not eviolited OU's nfe's as a whole.

Suicune is good but the crocune set is shut down by a water immune (surprisingly rare) or a faster taunt (not quite as rare). It can also be worn down, and phaze can prevent it from healing (by getting it to sleep then preventing it from staying in 2 turns to wake up).
 
Stupid exams. Im either going to have to get to 1500 by tommorrow (not gonna happen), or ladder during exams (As if). :(

Kyurem is actually pretty easily to deal with... sac something to a draco meteor, then use wobbufett. Other than that, good luck. I kinda wish heatra was in UU to deal with it.
 
Saccing a Pokemon just to get something out is just asking for trouble, especially if only one Pokemon can even finish the job guaranteed, lest it switches out and forces you into that situation again. And plus, Wobbuffet is just so damn useless vs. subs...which is a shame because Kyurem seems to love those a lot in this meta. When you see Kyu, it's almost always "good luck", because you're not actually going to counter it with anything unless you have a Chansey and it's not running any Att investment. Predict your switch-ins to Ice Beam, have an Escavalier on hand to force him out, etc.
 
I had a feeling people were going to start using that eventually, which was why I said "force him out." Escavalier will take that -2 HP Fire like a champ and Iron Head you to little dragon pieces.
 
the best kyurem set for me is substitute +3 attacks(blizzard,fb,dragon pulse)and leftovers with max sp.atc,enough hp to make 101 hp subs,the rest in speed and a modest nature!
of course i use him with obama!focus blast is almost always a must because of empoleon(most used counter for kyurem),registeel,chansey(for the final hit obviously or else she will just stall you),aggron and cobalion!there are much more but that's the most popular!hp fire is good only for escavalier although it is defintely worth as escavalier is one of it's best checks(switch in on everyhting that kyurem throws and then switch to a fire resist to scout for hp fire)...
 
i would agree on it if not that it's "easy" to roar him, to me the most freagging annoying set is the Sub/Claw Sharpen since it makes an enormous ammount of damage just with Dragon Tail and blizzard while being impossible to reliably swich
 
Made a UU team and hopped on the ladder tonight to get a feel for the new tier. I used a lot of 4th gen UU from my team back then, just to get into it.

I've been seeing a lot of Kyurems as leads, strangely (which I don't understand). It really hasn't been too bad for me, but that's because I pack priority on three of my pokemon.

I've seen nothing too broken so far, but I haven't faced Chansey (I don't really want to, to be honest) or Drought teams yet.
 
Ok the ladder is a joke.

I just put an 5 minute team together without even looking which Pokes are in UU and whatever and i got to Top 25 after 20 mins of laddering (no kyurem, chansey, victini, sun, or other overused shit).

Not really worth playing at the moment....

And all the Victinis i played against where pretty much underwhelming so far (maybe im overprepared idk).
 
Well, I gave in and started running a Sun team, without Victini.

Victreebel destroys everything

Seriously. It outspeeds the entire teir, then uses Sleep Powder. From there, it can use Growth, and then abuse Power Whip and Return, which takes out everything that isn't Steel-typed.

The only times I lose Victreebel is when Sucker Punchers are concerned, or a Power Whip miss.

I still need to make adjustments, of course, but Victreebel is absolutlely destroying everything in it's path.

Also, interesting things of note:

Rhyperior:
No, he's not broken. But I feel like he should get a side-mention as a brilliant pokemon to use on a Sun team. I run a Max Attack, Max Defense 'Perior, and it works wonders, especially at forcing out Victini, setting up Rocks, and letting me OHKO it with Victreebel later in the game.

Excellent auxillary for Sun abusers. Too bad he can't stop the rocks going up in the first place. My Charizard could do without those.

Shiftry:
Is not that good. I've used him alongside Victreebel, and he just feels like dead weight. Dark Pulse just dosen't cut it. Solarbeam is strong, but he has nothing to help him get that Growth up, and is frail. I tried Screens Support, but, I rarely get the chance, and Victreebel is a better abuser of it anyway.
 
Finally somebody actually realized that Victreebel is amazing (he has weather ball a 150BP fire attack wich means he can destroy steel types too) you know you have to sacrifice something for the sleep powder turn, and then you have to actually kill him (if your opponent doesn't have perma-weather too he's screw

And if you pack xatu/espeon you souldn't have a big problem with rocks since if you make bulky espeon or screens xatu, they have morning sun/roost and it's easy to swich-in/swich-out (outside of the rare pursuiters)
 
I don't see the merit of running Power Whip on Victreebel, since you lose the ability to run Weather Ball / Sucker Punch. +2 Leaf Blade gets most of the KOs you'll need anyway (and you don't have to worry about missing)
 
then you're better using solarbeam, the reason for vine whip is being mixed and don't care about hipo or obama changing the weather (more hipo)
 
Oh my god.

Without Tyranitar...

Solarbeam might actually be a good option on things.

This completely alters my entire perception of reality.
 
I sucked at UU for some reason at the beginning, but yeah, I can see what Conflict is saying. Teams without weather setters/abusers seem to have a much better fighting chance in UU than they do in OU.
 
Anyways, so far my only complaints are Victini (who's in all likelihood going up to OU next round whether we ban it or not) and Kyurem, both of whom are ridiculously powerful. Drought also seems to be slightly problematic, but I'd prefer to see how it fares without Victini before I form a complete opinion on it.
 
Well I decided to take the plunge and finally switched from a balanced non-weather team after being pushed around by hardcore stall far too long. It is ridiculous, I think in one session of battling I completely skyrocketed to top 50 on the ladder from simply switching to a Drought abuse team.

After which I went back to a balanced team, my face was used to wipe the floor with by every stall and weather team in existance and dropped back down to 200's. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has managed to get high with a non-stall/non-weather balanced team because at the moment it feels physically impossible from my last experience. Although dealing with Weather teams is fairly 50/50 in terms of win/loss ratio, its hardcore stall teams which end up raping you.
 
I reached #32 with a nonweather non-stall team. (After that I had a horrible losing streak, but the point stands.) I was using Scarf Flygon to check slow sun abusers and other generally annoying stuff, Omastar as a Victini counter and spiker, and then what one of my opponents called the broken quad. Nasty Plot Mew, Wallbreaking Kyurem, Wobbuffet and Stallbreaking Cobalion. I don't think I had significant trouble with any stall teams prior to the nosedive. Kyurem 2HKO's everything which isn't a steel and isn't Chansey with Draco Meteor/Outrage, while Cobalion sets up on Deo-S and similar and runs through teams ater a cople of Swords Dances. I don't think stall is a massive problem as long as you're prepared to dedicate a couple of teamslots to helping deal with it. Likewise, sun is handled overall by the team, with Oma checking Victini, Wobby encoring sun sweepers as the set up so Flygon can revenge or the team as a whole mauevering to weaken and eliminate prominent threats. Obviously, Wobby granting a free kill every match is great, because it allows my somewhat offensive team to setup and plough through part of the opponents team, get revenge killed and then I eliminate the revenge killer and setup once more, but this time there is nothing to stop me apart from defensive checks, something which a decent number of current teams lack.
Also I almost beat IFM but then misplayed at the end and gambled the game on confusion.
 
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