Nkululeko is correct for all of the many reasons he listed.
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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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It's not just Froslass who breaks Hail. It's Nidoqueen aswell.
You don't need a paragraph to state obvious facts. Hail doesn't have the firepower to be broken and there's a reason there are Hail abusers in RU, it's not that good.
If it's so obvious why are so many good players nominating it?
Btw rain was extremely dangerous in 4th gen UU, as anyone who's played the tier can tell you. And yet one of the strongest rain sweepers (Gorebyss) was NU, while two other Pokemon (Omastar and Qwilfish) were far more likely to be Spike-carrying Pokemon than rain sweepers. Why?
Btw rain was extremely dangerous in 4th gen UU, as anyone who's played the tier can tell you. And yet one of the strongest rain sweepers (Gorebyss) was NU, while two other Pokemon (Omastar and Qwilfish) were far more likely to be Spike-carrying Pokemon than rain sweepers. Why?
^ Because there were also other Pokemon to choose from in the tier, such as Kabutops and Ludicolo.
I used a hail team this round, and despite making reqs, I in no way think any part of hail is broken. It has a ton of glaring weaknesses, such as Snorlax, that are very tough to get around. Roserade also gives hail stall problems, as it absorbs Nidoqueen's Toxic Spikes and can take out Walrein, Mamoswine (not CB or LO, mine uses Lefties to make the most of Snow Cloak and to heal against Registeel and Thunder Wave Chansey. Rapid Spin is also difficult to fit on a Hail team. Hitmontop is really the only think that can be a decent Spinner. Stealth Rock and especially Toxic Spikes take care of SubSeed Abomasnow, Mamoswine, Weaville, Froslass, Raikou, Regice, and Stallrein.
The only switch in to Victini or Staraptor I could think of that fit well was Stallrein, who dies of a V-Create crit or Staraptor CC. Heracross gives hail teams a lot of problems as well. Abomasnow should stay at least until next round to see how things go after Staraptor and Mew probably leave, as well as the best Blizzard absorber in Chansey.
The only switch in to Victini or Staraptor I could think of that fit well was Stallrein, who dies of a V-Create crit or Staraptor CC. Heracross gives hail teams a lot of problems as well. Abomasnow should stay at least until next round to see how things go after Staraptor and Mew probably leave, as well as the best Blizzard absorber in Chansey.
Do you not know what a hail team looks like? Your standard hail team will look something like Abomasnow/Walrein/Froslass/Nidoqueen/Hitmontop/Slowbro with maybe one of those swapped out for something else... Toxic Spikes has no effect on them because of Nidoqueen, and SR is easily removed by Hitmontop, as double ghost is almost non-existant in uu. Heracross is Nidoqueen set-up bait, and it dies to entry hazards quickly. Of everything you listed, only Staraptor and Roserade can really pose problems for hail teams, and Staraptor will most likely be banned this round anyway. Even if its not, it'll go down by itself after getting maybe one kill.
Many hail teams carry Slowbro to deal with Fire types, but even for those without it Arcanine can generally only afford one or two switches due to entry hazards, (hail teams generally carry all three) life orb recoil, Flare Blitz + Wild Charge recoil, and hail. Victini falls under many of these as well, and as most of them are choiced its easy to predict what it'll use (most likely V-Create) and switch to the appropriate counter. As with Arcanine, it won't get many opportunities to do any real damage.
Maybe I'm stupid or something because I'm failing to see how hail is obviously not broken.
I've been using a scarfed trick deoxys-d and no one ever expects it. It's been superb especially against trick leads or to just set up spikes by taking advantage of its bulkiness.
I will also almost always set up at least 1 layer of spikes as long as the lead taunter isn't crobat or aerodactyl.
I will also almost always set up at least 1 layer of spikes as long as the lead taunter isn't crobat or aerodactyl.
what's a good scarfer who can dispose of rock types?
Heracross or Roserade are good for that.
yeah, my main concern was rhyperior. thanks guys, I'll test them all, but I think I'll go with Hercross. Even though Rhyperior is hit on his physical side, I use Spike support, so CC should manage to take it out...
ugh Regirock is also so damn bulky...
ugh Regirock is also so damn bulky...
Celebi isn't a bad scarfer for that at all, considering it also gets Trick. Also, Shaymin.
I'm still finding that Crobat checks a ridiculous amount of the meta like last gen. 80 hp 252atk 176 spe@jolly w/Taunt/BB/Roost/U-Turn outruns everything important, gives a bit of bulk and a decent amount of attack to make Crobat an extremely annoying lead/supporter/wall/late game cleaner. Literally, he's done all of those things. Don't give him a try, because I hate facing him :)
Tbh, it's really hard to justify Hail as bannable if the top players are not using it and experiencing tremendous success with it, unless you get a scenario where scrupulous amounts of detail are being applied to countering it on your average team. But right now, that's simply not the case, since it's so overreliant on massive amounts of setup and Pokemon with such an inferior defensive type that can be exploited by so much of the metgame.
Unless I'm wrong and most of our voting pool has secretly hated it all along. I'd be really surprised to find it get even a simply majority this round.
Unless I'm wrong and most of our voting pool has secretly hated it all along. I'd be really surprised to find it get even a simply majority this round.
I just don't even know why Snow Warning was nominated. It should only be nominated if it's broken on all its Pokemon, and we have no clue if it's broken on Snover. Has anybody here played with Snover?
Or maybe people are still in the mentality that Abomasnow IS the only Pokemon with Snow Warning, since it's the only fully-evolved Pokemon that gets it. But I'm sure we moved on from discriminating against certain Pokemon because of an in-game label that they've been given by Game Freak, which has no bearing on their competitive performance at all, back in like 2007?
Or maybe people are still in the mentality that Abomasnow IS the only Pokemon with Snow Warning, since it's the only fully-evolved Pokemon that gets it. But I'm sure we moved on from discriminating against certain Pokemon because of an in-game label that they've been given by Game Freak, which has no bearing on their competitive performance at all, back in like 2007?
yes it should be banned on all pokemon that have that ability because it of its support to an ENTIRE team..not to say abomasnow/snover is a waste of team slot, but if they didnt have snow warning then we'll be looking at them at the bottum of RU...if abomasnow goes, hail teams will be the exact same with snover around, so yes it is completely fair to ban all users of snow warning..
I agree with SJCrew, everytime a hail team is used it just screams for a SD colbian to sweep or a raikou to come in and set up calm mind
Just looking through the suspect thread and the general consensus is that Abomasnow isn't the one that's broken, it's the hail, which in turn makes Mamoswine, Froslass and Walrein able to troll the opponent, especially when Hippopotas is ridiculously rare.
Also, Vulpix wasn't banned was Drought so i guess is kind of the same, Snower and Aboma will not be banned since both have another ability (when it's released)
Walrein is overrated (extremely so if it's actually making people nominate Hail). Yeah 32 turns of stalling is great in theory, but it will never happen against pretty much any good team. Taunt beats it. Any status beats it. It has to switch in and probably take a decently powerful attack before it can get a Substitute up (if it even has enough HP to get one up after SR and a strong hit), and then Roar can force it right back out. It needs Toxic Spikes to really be effective, so Poison-types, Steel-types, and Levitaters like Rotom-F beat it, and spinners and Magic Bounce prevent it from even getting started. There are tons of ways to stop Walrein and every good team probably has them already to help deal with other crap like Baton Pass. If DPP NU could handle Snover + Walrein + Nidoqueen, I'm not sure how anyone can seriously believe Hail breaks Walrein now.
My guess is the only reason Snow Warning came up is because Froslass is annoying. Fair enough, but in that case nominate Froslass. Banning Hail is a ridiculous overreaction.
My guess is the only reason Snow Warning came up is because Froslass is annoying. Fair enough, but in that case nominate Froslass. Banning Hail is a ridiculous overreaction.
The bit in bold. You have no way of knowing that. If Hail is really that much of a problem, let's see what it's like with just Snover first. If you're right, and it is the same, Snover will just get banned too, and it'll be fine.
Last generation, there was a similar situation, except only Abomasnow got banned, and Snover saw very little usage (so much that it ended up in NU). MUCH less than Abomasnow. If Hail teams were exactly the same with Snover, then why did it's usage decrease 5-fold (or whatever it was)?
The Vulpix/Drought situation wasn't a big deal, since Vulpix was the only one to get Drought. But seriously, I bet if Caterpie had Snow Warning people would still ban auto-ban it along with Abomasnow.
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