Is it worth mentioning that if Hail is banned from UU then besides RU it's going to be a completely unused weather? Because Hail gets screwed over in OU by lots of things. So making a decision to ban hail from UU is almost making a decision to say FU Hail, you're not part of the game anymore.
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np: UU Suspect Test Round 2 - Cold As Ice
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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We know that and, quite frankly, we couldn't care less. It's not our fault Abomasnow isn't good enough for OU~~
In the Sun, Vulpix's base SpA effectively doubles.
lol I really dont get that bold statement about banning snover, because you said we should just ban both of them which is what ive been saying this whole time..
Im not stating nor point the finger at what is broken in hail, I am only stating that snover and abomasnow are the same on hail teams...If it is "snow warning" itself that is broken then BOTH will have to go..
That is a completely wrong point. Like everyone says, its the abusers that make Hail broken, not the little damage it deals every turn and making Blizzards 100% accurate. There's no Frosslass/ Mamoswine/ etc. in RU, so its a different story. And if you ban Abomasnow without banning Snover, I promise you nothing will change.
Mamo's on his way to OU, so that's one problem that's taken care of. The only other problem is mostly Frosslass, although, anything with Snow Cloak is a problem. I think, instead of getting rid of Hail entirely, we should just get rid of Snow Cloak. Sand Veil was good enough to get Garchomp a ban, not the Sand starters, so I feel the same standard should be used in the lower tiers, since it's pretty much the same ability
It changed in DPPt. A lot.
But Sand Veil got Garchomp banned, not itself. If you apply the same logic, Froslass and Mamoswine will get the boot (because you seriously can't be rooting on Mamoswine being OU for not voting on it...) and everything will be fine until someone proves Snow Cloak Glaceon is broken but eh...
The fact that Mamo's on its way to ou shouldn't change our minds about it, what if it drops back later, then we'll have an unbalanced metagame later on (4th gen Hera, anyone?), the same appliesto Espeon, if it's to good for UU, we should ban it, regardless of it's usage stats.
I do not think hail is broken either way though, so show the ou guys how to do it and ban snow cloak instead. (Refering to banning chomp instead of sand veil).
@Mario: DPPt was a different meta, aboma was actually good for other things than hail in uu back then, he's not now.
I do not think hail is broken either way though, so show the ou guys how to do it and ban snow cloak instead. (Refering to banning chomp instead of sand veil).
@Mario: DPPt was a different meta, aboma was actually good for other things than hail in uu back then, he's not now.
True, I mostly was thinking about getting rid of Frosslass and Mamo since they're the main abusers of Snow Cloak, just like Chomp was the main abuser of Sand Veil.
Mostly, what I was wanting to say is, get rid of the abusers instead of the weather, lol
So is it aggreable to the majority that we can just kick Mamoswine and Froslass out of UU for hail to be alright?
Imagine it like this. What Mamoswine and Froslass have in common is their ability, Snow Cloak. It's as if they're holding BrightPowder on top of another hold item in hail. BrightPowder is an item that is sometimes banned, alongside items like King's Rock and Odd Incense. BrightPowder in this case is Snow Cloak, so banning Snow Cloak would be the logical thing to do. Sand Veil is in the same boat, but the only abusers are Gligar and Cacturne, the former could be banned, but people aren't complaining about it. The latter is less common. This doesn't prevent them from possibly being broken, but eliminating evasion hax would help in testing which one is broken, or if they are both too good.
i agree with everything thats been said about getting rid of the abusers, in OU they didnt ban sandstorm, they banned Garchomp, because it was that poke that was breaking the game, hail on its own is not a threat enough to get banned, tanks losing their lefties is not at all game breaking, Froslass getting three layers of spikes up, and paralyzing half of your team before you can hit her is, also i dont know much about how mamoswine is doing, i can imagine it being extremely annoying though
Really, what else is there to abuse Hail once those two are out of the way? You only have Walrein and...lolGlaceon/Beartic left. Really. Every single hail abuser outside of the big 4(Abomasnow, Froslass, Mamo, Walrein) just sucks tbh. The only purpose is never-miss Blizzard, and I suppose that's something to be proud off </sarcasm>
...derp. I forgot Rotom.
Glaceon is rather meh-ish anyway without Snow Cloak...
Glaceon is rather meh-ish anyway without Snow Cloak...
Frosslass was BL and Mamo was OU.
RU dosen't have to deal with Hail, Chansey, Staraptor, and the other myriad of UU threats.
RU is a completely different metagame from UU, and what is allowed in it is based off of what happens in UU.
Attempting to base if Hail is broken in UU on if it's broken in RU is like saying Imposter Ditto wouldn't be broken, because it's power depends on the power of the teir it is in [Despite it being the last word in momentum, and literally HURLING your momentum back at you]
So saying that if Hail is not broken in RU, it's not broken in UU is stupid, especially as many Hail abusers are UU [Froslass, Mamoswine, apparently Nidoqueen is a Hail mainstay], as well as Abomasnow.
I'm not supporting Snow Warning being banned, however, and, frankly, I do think Froslass and Mamoswine are the problems, if any exist with Hail at all. [Good sign is how much more they are used than Abomasnow] I was just pointing out the flaw in your argument.
I pretty much agree with everything being said. Abomasnow doesn't break UU, the fact that Froslass is Ice/Ghost, can lay down Spike,s can Thunder Wave AND has Snow Cloak does. Abomasnow without Froslass, or Mamoswine either, would be borderline UU, barely sticking in. This argument may not be too appropriate, but, Kyurem was banned form UU and he was THE main Hail abuser, not Abomasnow, yes I realize that Kyurem was broken OUTSIDE of Hail... But anyway, it's like Garchomp in OU, like I mentioned before.
Froslass was UU most of the duration of DPPt, however.
Froslass was UU most of the duration of DPPt, however.
I'm not supporting Snow Warning being banned either. I'm completely against that.
What I'm saying is:
RU is UU with some Pokemon taken out.
Hail isn't broken in RU.
Therefore, if you take some Pokemon out of UU, Hail also won't be broken there.
Understand? Snover is the last thing that should be banned. It has been 100% proven that Snow Warning (at least from Snover) can function in UU if some Pokemon are taken out (granted, RU is UU with about 50 Pokemon taken out, but I doubt that many would need to be removed).
It's quite hilarious that everybody quotes by posts only to agree with me. A Snow Warning nomination is completely wrong, because we know it's not a broken ability, as it's not broken on all the Pokemon that can use it. Ban Froslass, or Abomasnow, or Chansey, or Mamoswine, or Nidoqueen. Whatever. Just don't ban Snow Warning, because then non-broken Pokemon such as Snover get banned.
Banning Snow Warning is just lazy imo. We know it's not broken.
Froslass and Mamoswine deserve the bot that's it!
Also, Glaceon with modest and max special attack with max hp is decently bulky and really strong.
Also, Glaceon with modest and max special attack with max hp is decently bulky and really strong.
Another quite interesting topic, what do you guys think will replace Staraptor if he and probably will get the boot up his ass?
I think Azelf will be used instead of him as a choiced user with U-Turn (scouter and clean upper), Hitmonlee as damaging bander or scarfer and Swellow as Facading Brave Birding bitch. Hitmontop will get even more usage too and Rhyperior's usage will lower a bit.
I think Azelf will be used instead of him as a choiced user with U-Turn (scouter and clean upper), Hitmonlee as damaging bander or scarfer and Swellow as Facading Brave Birding bitch. Hitmontop will get even more usage too and Rhyperior's usage will lower a bit.
I've noticed some more usage in Durant, which is completely menacing if it gets a hone claws in.
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