Whoa, that was fast. I'm personally undecided on this one: unmatched power, great typing... but on the other hand her bulk is not THAT great(remember she has only 50 base hp) and sometimes her reliance on Sucker Punch against speedy threats can be her downfall. The benefits of this ban would be that would be less pressure on stall/balanced teams, so I could see her getting the boot... We'll see.
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np: XY OU Suspect Testing Round 6 - Wrecking Ball [Read Post 423 for Posting etiquette]
- Thread starter Nachos
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I kind of agree, even though mega Mawile probably should be banned, without aegi keeping everything in check more things need to be banned resulting in a more not necessarily unbalanced tier but a tier where less things can be used than before.
How can one honestly think this little bitch isn't broken? It has no VIABLE universal counters (well, you might argue Defensive Zard Y but tbh Mega Mawile is the only reason that exists so I class it as over centralisation) meaning that if you don't know the set, switching in safely is, well, practically impossible. It could Sub, SD, wreak your face with an attack, ext. Even once you DO know the set switching in is damn difficult due to it's sheer power, unless you run like Arcanine, or Heatran if it isn't SubPunch. Due to it's awesome typing, there are a lot of things it can safely switch into in the meta and cause the opponent to have a very difficult switch in. It's such a low risk high reward wallbreaker/stallbreaker in the sense that getting it in is easy, and if your opponent manages to predict you and switch in ok then no problem, but if they mess up then they are in pretty deep shit, as something has been killed/hit very hard and is in SP range/you have a sub or SD. In short, it has little to no trouble murdering defensive teams and can also switch in easily on offence and put a shit ton of pressure on it. In other words: Ban this broken piece of crap.
I am so excited for this one!
To balance out the Aegi-ban, I feel the next most logical ban should be Mawilite to balance the meta game out
To balance out the Aegi-ban, I feel the next most logical ban should be Mawilite to balance the meta game out
HBK
Subtlety is my middle name
I don't think that it's broken. Due to it's low hp and speed, it requires quite a bit of skill to use; it cannot come in on anything without getting 3HKO'ed at the very least (and that's from stuff that's been weakened by Intimidate) and it's walled by Heatran or Scizor/Ferrothorn/Venusaur depending on it's move set. Heatran can even deal with Focus Punch variants with some prediction. It is, what you may call, a glass cannon. Counter Skarmorys have been popping up on teams quite recently and they too can deal with it. It's below average bulk makes it even harder for it to set up an SD and sweep and even if it does, stuff like Terrakion, Tyranitar, Azumarril, etc. can always revenge it because of how slow it is. Landorus-T can always come in for an Intimidate and scare it out.
Jesus the name you choose for the suspect test is terrible, Nachos please name it something else,
But yeah, originally I was thinking it was not broken, but I have kinda changed my mind from looking at this thread and my own use of it as a member of my team. Infact I would just like to quickly counter some of the anti ban arguements. And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about because like I said I use this poke
It is destroyed by burns: What physical attacker isn't weak to burns? I'm pretty sure the only physical attackers who don't care about them are Mega Charizard X and the rare guts users. I dare you to name one other example of a Physical attacker not weak to burns
Its slow as Hell: If this was Gen V this would be a good argument, but this is Gen VI. Speed, while it is important, is not everything. Mega Mawile has priority to get past this and a very good typing + good bulk to deal damage to teams. Also, being that Slow can basically turn you into a Deoxys-S on trick room teams
Heatran counters it: While true for the Swords Dance set, Mega Mawile can destroy it with its SubPunch set
But yeah, originally I was thinking it was not broken, but I have kinda changed my mind from looking at this thread and my own use of it as a member of my team. Infact I would just like to quickly counter some of the anti ban arguements. And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about because like I said I use this poke
It is destroyed by burns: What physical attacker isn't weak to burns? I'm pretty sure the only physical attackers who don't care about them are Mega Charizard X and the rare guts users. I dare you to name one other example of a Physical attacker not weak to burns
Its slow as Hell: If this was Gen V this would be a good argument, but this is Gen VI. Speed, while it is important, is not everything. Mega Mawile has priority to get past this and a very good typing + good bulk to deal damage to teams. Also, being that Slow can basically turn you into a Deoxys-S on trick room teams
Heatran counters it: While true for the Swords Dance set, Mega Mawile can destroy it with its SubPunch set
Seriously? A week hasn't even fucking passed. . .
Oh boy. . . Mawile has two HUGE problems, HP, and speed. Along with the ridiculous amount of things that can threaten it out if not out right stop it. Haven't participated in a ban in a while, might as well start now.
Want a list of stops? How about some of the most common Pokemon in the tier. Zard X (why did we not suspect this first?). Pisnsir, Tflame, Lando T, Lando I, Thundy, Rotom-W, Heatran, Garchomp, Zard Y, Excadrill, Gliscor, Gyarados, need I continue?
Yes, it does have an amazing Attack stat. So what? So does Bisharp, Terrakion, Keldeo, etc. What's the difference, the amount? Here's another thing a base 50 speed. Where does that get you? No where fast (no pun intended).
First off, I can't believe we're doing this. Second, I can't believe we had literally less than a week of an Aegislash-less meta game. Dafuq?
I swear to god if any of you bring Sucker Punch forth as a counter argument I will reach through my computer screen and wring your neck.
Also, I said this in the last thread, Stop with the fucking 50/50 Argument. It will always happen regardless of what Pokemon is in. Welcome to the meta.
Oh boy. . . Mawile has two HUGE problems, HP, and speed. Along with the ridiculous amount of things that can threaten it out if not out right stop it. Haven't participated in a ban in a while, might as well start now.
Want a list of stops? How about some of the most common Pokemon in the tier. Zard X (why did we not suspect this first?). Pisnsir, Tflame, Lando T, Lando I, Thundy, Rotom-W, Heatran, Garchomp, Zard Y, Excadrill, Gliscor, Gyarados, need I continue?
Yes, it does have an amazing Attack stat. So what? So does Bisharp, Terrakion, Keldeo, etc. What's the difference, the amount? Here's another thing a base 50 speed. Where does that get you? No where fast (no pun intended).
First off, I can't believe we're doing this. Second, I can't believe we had literally less than a week of an Aegislash-less meta game. Dafuq?
I swear to god if any of you bring Sucker Punch forth as a counter argument I will reach through my computer screen and wring your neck.
Also, I said this in the last thread, Stop with the fucking 50/50 Argument. It will always happen regardless of what Pokemon is in. Welcome to the meta.
Mega Mawile needs to go.
This thing destroys stall. Its also difficult to counter. I've heard stuff like Arcanine mentioned, but really, to me that just sounds like over-centralization, because Arcanine wouldn't really pull its weight vs. other pokes (same goes for stuff like moltres). Lando-t does an OK job, but its first to get worn down after a couple of cycles, and lando-t also isn't very good on stall. Outside of that, nothing really counters Mega Mawile. Everything else looses to it, so yeah this thing wrecks stall.
But not only does it wreck stall, its not dead weight vs. offense. Where it can come in on pretty much anything on a stall team, it can still come in on stuff like latias and set up a sub/SD. Mawile is also too hard to check. Pretty much everything unresisted by sucker punch is OHKO'd, and things that aren't still take massive damage. Things with will-o-wisp are the best checks, but that's somewhat made less effective by the subpunch set.
Which brings in that Mawile has versatility. SD and subpunch have different counters. I.E. SD beats megasaur but subpunch beats stuff like skarm (better). This makes it even more powerful.
Overall, Mega Mawile is ridiculous. I would be OK with a quickban lol.
This thing destroys stall. Its also difficult to counter. I've heard stuff like Arcanine mentioned, but really, to me that just sounds like over-centralization, because Arcanine wouldn't really pull its weight vs. other pokes (same goes for stuff like moltres). Lando-t does an OK job, but its first to get worn down after a couple of cycles, and lando-t also isn't very good on stall. Outside of that, nothing really counters Mega Mawile. Everything else looses to it, so yeah this thing wrecks stall.
But not only does it wreck stall, its not dead weight vs. offense. Where it can come in on pretty much anything on a stall team, it can still come in on stuff like latias and set up a sub/SD. Mawile is also too hard to check. Pretty much everything unresisted by sucker punch is OHKO'd, and things that aren't still take massive damage. Things with will-o-wisp are the best checks, but that's somewhat made less effective by the subpunch set.
Which brings in that Mawile has versatility. SD and subpunch have different counters. I.E. SD beats megasaur but subpunch beats stuff like skarm (better). This makes it even more powerful.
Overall, Mega Mawile is ridiculous. I would be OK with a quickban lol.
BenTheDemon
Banned deucer.
I remember when Lucarionite was banned, Versilify or however you spell it said that the next Suspect would be Mega Mawile. Well after 2 (or 3 if you count Deo-D and Deo-S as two) more suspects, here it is!
Now for my opinion:
I had never really thought of Mawile as a prime suspect, but after the announcement, it makes total sense. It has the highest effective base Attack in the game, IIRC and very good Priority in Sucker Punch, which can KO nearly any non-dedicated wall that doesn't resist it. It also has respectable 50/125/95 Defenses so it's not the frailest glass cannon especially if it pulls off Intimidate in its base forme. Access to Swords Dance makes it an extremely deadly sweeper at the cost of coverage, but SD, Iron Head, Play Rough, and Sucker Punch is still pretty good neutral coverage. Though Substitute is a well distributed move, Mega-Mawile can pull it off successfully due to the sheer amount of Pokemon it forces out. Mega-Mawile is also a staple on Trick Room teams where it is arguably the most scary, despite how uncommon Trick Room is in OU. And finally, one more minor thing is that its Steel Typing makes it immune to Toxic and resistant to Stealth Rock.
So out of all of these, I think one thing in particular pushes Mega-Mawile off the edge, access to Sucker Punch. If it didn't have Sucker Punch, I seriously doubt we would even be discussing him right now. But a ban on Sucker Punch would be stupid and unreasonable.
My verdict: Strongly leaning toward a Ban.
Now for my opinion:
I had never really thought of Mawile as a prime suspect, but after the announcement, it makes total sense. It has the highest effective base Attack in the game, IIRC and very good Priority in Sucker Punch, which can KO nearly any non-dedicated wall that doesn't resist it. It also has respectable 50/125/95 Defenses so it's not the frailest glass cannon especially if it pulls off Intimidate in its base forme. Access to Swords Dance makes it an extremely deadly sweeper at the cost of coverage, but SD, Iron Head, Play Rough, and Sucker Punch is still pretty good neutral coverage. Though Substitute is a well distributed move, Mega-Mawile can pull it off successfully due to the sheer amount of Pokemon it forces out. Mega-Mawile is also a staple on Trick Room teams where it is arguably the most scary, despite how uncommon Trick Room is in OU. And finally, one more minor thing is that its Steel Typing makes it immune to Toxic and resistant to Stealth Rock.
So out of all of these, I think one thing in particular pushes Mega-Mawile off the edge, access to Sucker Punch. If it didn't have Sucker Punch, I seriously doubt we would even be discussing him right now. But a ban on Sucker Punch would be stupid and unreasonable.
My verdict: Strongly leaning toward a Ban.
To be honest, I'm a tiny bit disappointed that it isn't being quickbanned. It's number of safe switch-ins is legitimately zero. Heatran works well a majority of the time, but the sub-punch set is common enough that I wouldn't call it one. As has already been said, it's excellent typing, monstrous attack, and the fact that it is probably the only OU mon that can 1hko anything that switches in on it given the right set, it's just egregiously overpowered and needs to go. I am curious about what any anti-ban users will have to say about it, though. I'm guessing it will probably be something along the lines of "it's slow and has to rely on sucker punch to deal with things that are faster and 1hko it." Then we'll get to talk about 50/50s all thread long like with the Aegislash test, except this time, rather than a 50/50 that might involve getting crippled, it's a 50/50 that might result in getting utterly fucked!
Also, before more people start bringing up Heracross and Medicham to downplay Mawile, I want to point out that they really aren't all that comparable. Heracross and Medicham are both much more manageable for all playstyles to deal with than Mawile. Stall struggles with both, but has options of dealing with it in pokemon like Cresselia, Mew, and Alomomola for Medicham and Doublade for Heracross. Offense frequently has to sac a pokemon if either Medicham or Heracross gets a free switch-in, but, because of their mediocre speed and lack of strong priority, It's fairly easy to play around them. Mawile pretty much craps on both stall and offense. Stall usually doesn't have enough offensive presence to threaten mawile, but at the same time is unable to adequately wall it. Offense is not only unable to switch in on Mawile, but also is forced into a frequently unfavorable (since offense rarely runs WoW) 50/50 with sucker punch. At +2, sucker punch is going to 1hko pretty much anything offense would normally use to revenge kill it, and if you're not running WoW, you're either going to be forced to attack, or hope that the Mawile user let's you SD/CM/NP 8 times before play roughing you instead. It's cancer. Ban it.
Also, before more people start bringing up Heracross and Medicham to downplay Mawile, I want to point out that they really aren't all that comparable. Heracross and Medicham are both much more manageable for all playstyles to deal with than Mawile. Stall struggles with both, but has options of dealing with it in pokemon like Cresselia, Mew, and Alomomola for Medicham and Doublade for Heracross. Offense frequently has to sac a pokemon if either Medicham or Heracross gets a free switch-in, but, because of their mediocre speed and lack of strong priority, It's fairly easy to play around them. Mawile pretty much craps on both stall and offense. Stall usually doesn't have enough offensive presence to threaten mawile, but at the same time is unable to adequately wall it. Offense is not only unable to switch in on Mawile, but also is forced into a frequently unfavorable (since offense rarely runs WoW) 50/50 with sucker punch. At +2, sucker punch is going to 1hko pretty much anything offense would normally use to revenge kill it, and if you're not running WoW, you're either going to be forced to attack, or hope that the Mawile user let's you SD/CM/NP 8 times before play roughing you instead. It's cancer. Ban it.
Mawile is too much. Base 105 Attack boosted by Huge Power then Swords Dance to boot? Not much is gonna wall this thing. It wouldn't be an issue if it couldn't even switch in and set up, but no. Steel/Fairy is fantastic defensive typing (and it don't give a shit about Toxic), and 50/125/95 defenses + Intimidate + lack of need to invest in Speed, meaning you can fully invest HP means it's far from frail. Sucker Punch lets it get past offensive threats, SD is damn near impossible to wall, and a Mawile behind a sub makes me sweat bullets because something is going to get hurt. Not to mention the synergy this thing has with Azumarill. The fact that people run shit like CounterSkarm just to deal with it speaks volumes to me. MegaWile needs to go.
Sure, you can switch Tran into Mawile... then Mawile turns out to be SubPunch (which I find to be its scariest set) and subs on the switch. What do you do now?
50 HP looks bad but with full HP investment, great typing, Intimidate, then 50/85 is plenty good enough to be able to come in. And once it's in, it will probably break something.
Why are you using a mono-Fairy team? Fairy is a good type, and Azumarill/Mawile offensive core is nice, but you're just not gonna get the best support with only one type. Use Mawile on a good team and see how overpowered it really is.
Sure, you can switch Tran into Mawile... then Mawile turns out to be SubPunch (which I find to be its scariest set) and subs on the switch. What do you do now?
50 HP looks bad but with full HP investment, great typing, Intimidate, then 50/85 is plenty good enough to be able to come in. And once it's in, it will probably break something.
Because Heatran isn't wreaked by sub punch. Seems legit. Oh, and how is Charizard X switching in on a Play Rough?
While Mega Mawile is a HUGE threat in the OU Metagame, I do NOT believe it deserves to be banned. While it's attack and physical defense are off of the charts, (especially with the Huge Power boost) it's speed and predictability are easily taken advantage of. If you are never able to take this thing out early game, I'll admit, it's almost unstoppable, but the simple fact is it's one true counter is it's predictability. I personally use Mega Mawile on nearly every team, so I know how good and over powered it may seem, but it's nowhere near ban-worthy in my opinion.
Not even a week....
Anyways, another suspect test that I'm torn on. On one hand, we have an absolute powerhouse that kills everything with Play Rough bar resists. On the other hand, we have a poke that is severely underwhelming pre mega and has very few switch in opportunities pre megas giant offensive teams. Intimidate is cool and all, but Mawile will still be taking a lot from special attacks and things like Mega Scizors Bullet Punch is still a 3HKO.
That aside, Mega Mawile is an absolute powerhouse. If you try and argue against that then you're a dumbass. Not very many things can switch into a Play Rough. Of those that do, the proper coverage move takes care of certain threats. Amoonguss is 2HKOed by Fire Fang, Heatran is OHKOed by Focus Punch, Venusaur lacking Sleep Powder and HP Fire find themselves dead from Iron Head, and Ferrothorn dies from Fire Fang. TL;dr, coverage determines your counters. Of course, Lando-T doesn't care about any coverage moves thanks to Inimidate, but he can't switch in repeatedly.
Every hero has their downfalls. Mawile is no exception. Her Mega has great bulk physically and decent special bulk, but it's offset largely due to her low base HP. Pre mega, however, can't find very many opportunities to hard switch in. Intimidate helps a bit, but that's only physically and she's usually 3HKOed by neutral hits anyways. Don't bother sending her into a special attack. Even resisted hits hurt. Defensive teams are easier to switch into, but wisp bulkyzard doesn't give a shit about her. On top of her limited switch in opportunities, mawiles speed is shit. No ifs, ands, or buts. This does allow her to invest in bulk, but she's also required to take hits repeatedly. She also has no recovery bar rest. She does get a priority move, Sucker Punch, but it can be played around easily and Rotom and Zard can just spam will o wisp to cripple her. It creates 50-50s with certain pokes like Latias and Talonflame, but that's irrelevant (don't like it? Ban Bisharp). She's easily revenge killed by things that resist Sucker Punch or don't care about it that much (like Garchomp, Lando (T), and Keldeo), thanks to her aforementioned low speed.
Facts aside, I don't really know which side I'm on. I usually don't have too much trouble whenever I face her unless I fuck up and let her set up. But then again anything that's set up can sweep a team.
This is pretty much aimed at the Council:
I get that you want to make up for lost time with these suspect tests, but seriously, hold your horses. Aegis has been gone less than a week. The meta hasn't had enough time to adapt. Sure, things like Starmie and the stall breaker megas are popping up, but that's only after a few days. That could possibly change in a few more days where other things pop up to take them on. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Give the meta time and hold off a couple of weeks. ORAS May be coming in 3 months, but that's still more than enough time to give the meta breathing room to settle down. I felt this way when the Aegislash suspect was held, but I kept my mouth shut because I was hoping that we'd get more time before the next one. And I was wrong and I know it'll happen right after this one. Hold your ban hammers. The meta is playable. Maybe ideal, but it's not gonna kill anyone to hold off on suspects a couple of weeks in between. Part of the reason why I didn't try as hard as I could've for reqs last round was because I was still dealing with tilt from the previous suspect a week earlier. That, and I had to make a few new teams to fit into the new meta. If Mawile goes, that means even more teams have to be scrapped. I wouldn't Mind this if we had a suspect every few weeks, but we don't even get one. This is why outsiders hate Smogon. Last gen I wasn't around, but from what I've read it looked like they were about a month or so apart on average. I don't see why we can't do that now.
Hold off on suspects for a few weeks after the last one and let the meta settle. It won't kill anyone if you do so
I get that you want to make up for lost time with these suspect tests, but seriously, hold your horses. Aegis has been gone less than a week. The meta hasn't had enough time to adapt. Sure, things like Starmie and the stall breaker megas are popping up, but that's only after a few days. That could possibly change in a few more days where other things pop up to take them on. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. Give the meta time and hold off a couple of weeks. ORAS May be coming in 3 months, but that's still more than enough time to give the meta breathing room to settle down. I felt this way when the Aegislash suspect was held, but I kept my mouth shut because I was hoping that we'd get more time before the next one. And I was wrong and I know it'll happen right after this one. Hold your ban hammers. The meta is playable. Maybe ideal, but it's not gonna kill anyone to hold off on suspects a couple of weeks in between. Part of the reason why I didn't try as hard as I could've for reqs last round was because I was still dealing with tilt from the previous suspect a week earlier. That, and I had to make a few new teams to fit into the new meta. If Mawile goes, that means even more teams have to be scrapped. I wouldn't Mind this if we had a suspect every few weeks, but we don't even get one. This is why outsiders hate Smogon. Last gen I wasn't around, but from what I've read it looked like they were about a month or so apart on average. I don't see why we can't do that now.
Hold off on suspects for a few weeks after the last one and let the meta settle. It won't kill anyone if you do so
Anyways, another suspect test that I'm torn on. On one hand, we have an absolute powerhouse that kills everything with Play Rough bar resists. On the other hand, we have a poke that is severely underwhelming pre mega and has very few switch in opportunities pre megas giant offensive teams. Intimidate is cool and all, but Mawile will still be taking a lot from special attacks and things like Mega Scizors Bullet Punch is still a 3HKO.
That aside, Mega Mawile is an absolute powerhouse. If you try and argue against that then you're a dumbass. Not very many things can switch into a Play Rough. Of those that do, the proper coverage move takes care of certain threats. Amoonguss is 2HKOed by Fire Fang, Heatran is OHKOed by Focus Punch, Venusaur lacking Sleep Powder and HP Fire find themselves dead from Iron Head, and Ferrothorn dies from Fire Fang. TL;dr, coverage determines your counters. Of course, Lando-T doesn't care about any coverage moves thanks to Inimidate, but he can't switch in repeatedly.
Every hero has their downfalls. Mawile is no exception. Her Mega has great bulk physically and decent special bulk, but it's offset largely due to her low base HP. Pre mega, however, can't find very many opportunities to hard switch in. Intimidate helps a bit, but that's only physically and she's usually 3HKOed by neutral hits anyways. Don't bother sending her into a special attack. Even resisted hits hurt. Defensive teams are easier to switch into, but wisp bulkyzard doesn't give a shit about her. On top of her limited switch in opportunities, mawiles speed is shit. No ifs, ands, or buts. This does allow her to invest in bulk, but she's also required to take hits repeatedly. She also has no recovery bar rest. She does get a priority move, Sucker Punch, but it can be played around easily and Rotom and Zard can just spam will o wisp to cripple her. It creates 50-50s with certain pokes like Latias and Talonflame, but that's irrelevant (don't like it? Ban Bisharp). She's easily revenge killed by things that resist Sucker Punch or don't care about it that much (like Garchomp, Lando (T), and Keldeo), thanks to her aforementioned low speed.
Facts aside, I don't really know which side I'm on. I usually don't have too much trouble whenever I face her unless I fuck up and let her set up. But then again anything that's set up can sweep a team.
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A couple of things Mawile brings to the table.
1. An excellent Fairy/Steel typing which grants it two immunitites, and 9 resistances.
2. A more than effective 257 Attack when Huge Power is accounted for. Due to this nothing likes to switch in.
3. Good coverage. I'll go as far as to say versatility to some degree, as its SD/Fire Fang/Play Rough/Sucker Punch is walled by Heatran, while Brick Break and Focus Punch Sets break Heatran's legs up its ass and call for completely different checks (Notice how I didn't say counters as there are none). Iron Head variants also aren't uncommon. Things that resist Sucker Punch (Fighting Types, Fairies, Dark types) never have a safe switch into Mawile as they risk getting annihilated by Play Rough.
4. It is true that Mawile does have rather low speed, but Sucker Punch (80 BP is very good for priority) is more than good enough of a priority to pick off faster threats. At +2 it OHKO's like everything that outspeeds it.
Lets take a look at some calcs for its supposed counters.
1. -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (you shouldn't have to use an Arcanine in OU in the first place)
2. -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 144-169 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
3. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 178-211 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
5. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
6. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 426-502 (110.3 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO
7. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 214-252 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
8. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (Weezing ._.)
For those of you saying phaze it out when its behind a sub, remember Roar/Whirlwind have negative priority so Mawile's 150 base power Focus Punch charges and hits before you can phaze it out.
Let's not forget that these things called teammates exist and Mawile needs a maximum of 2 of them to easily eliminate its checks. A distinction held by very few Pokemon.
TO SUMT UP, the thing that really makes Mawile stand out from other stallbreakers is its ridiculous Power that's coupled with excellent typing and bulk. For example Mega Medicham and Heracross have near as much power but Heracross' typing and Medicham's frailty really do hold it back when compared to Mawile. Another thing about Mawile is that it does very well vs both offense and stall, unlike Mega Medicham and Heracross. I highly recommend the naysayers to ladder with Mawile a bit, also with all due respect, please don't back your opinion with 1500s ladder, I'd say 1800s is a good benchmark (maybe even higher). So, I obviously think that Mawile needs the boot to Ubers.
1. An excellent Fairy/Steel typing which grants it two immunitites, and 9 resistances.
2. A more than effective 257 Attack when Huge Power is accounted for. Due to this nothing likes to switch in.
3. Good coverage. I'll go as far as to say versatility to some degree, as its SD/Fire Fang/Play Rough/Sucker Punch is walled by Heatran, while Brick Break and Focus Punch Sets break Heatran's legs up its ass and call for completely different checks (Notice how I didn't say counters as there are none). Iron Head variants also aren't uncommon. Things that resist Sucker Punch (Fighting Types, Fairies, Dark types) never have a safe switch into Mawile as they risk getting annihilated by Play Rough.
4. It is true that Mawile does have rather low speed, but Sucker Punch (80 BP is very good for priority) is more than good enough of a priority to pick off faster threats. At +2 it OHKO's like everything that outspeeds it.
Lets take a look at some calcs for its supposed counters.
1. -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (you shouldn't have to use an Arcanine in OU in the first place)
2. -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 144-169 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
3. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 178-211 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
5. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
6. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 426-502 (110.3 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO
7. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 214-252 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
8. 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 157-186 (47 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (Weezing ._.)
For those of you saying phaze it out when its behind a sub, remember Roar/Whirlwind have negative priority so Mawile's 150 base power Focus Punch charges and hits before you can phaze it out.
Let's not forget that these things called teammates exist and Mawile needs a maximum of 2 of them to easily eliminate its checks. A distinction held by very few Pokemon.
TO SUMT UP, the thing that really makes Mawile stand out from other stallbreakers is its ridiculous Power that's coupled with excellent typing and bulk. For example Mega Medicham and Heracross have near as much power but Heracross' typing and Medicham's frailty really do hold it back when compared to Mawile. Another thing about Mawile is that it does very well vs both offense and stall, unlike Mega Medicham and Heracross. I highly recommend the naysayers to ladder with Mawile a bit, also with all due respect, please don't back your opinion with 1500s ladder, I'd say 1800s is a good benchmark (maybe even higher). So, I obviously think that Mawile needs the boot to Ubers.
I, myself don't understand the no counters argument. Power creep itself has gotten to a point and it hit that point last gen even arguably 4th gen, in which it's impossible for every mon to have a counter. It's not feasible (eh probably not the best word choice) pokemon is no longer a game of checks and counters, idk if you noticed but with aegis gone stall is dead and it's not coming baaaaaack. If you want to ban everything without a counter you kill at least 5 mons and you're also being irrational as fuck, if you favor stall, that's nice but aegis is what was keeping all the things that murdered your playstyle in check. But aegis is now kill and even then aegis was only a check for cham/hera/garde. If you think banning maw will make stall stronger trust me it won't. Unless you plan on wanting every mega that beats stall banned.
Pokemon is pretty much the game of no switch-ins now, or at least ou is.
Pokemon is pretty much the game of no switch-ins now, or at least ou is.
mega mawile doesnt deserved to be banned. yes it is powerful, its typing is amazing but it cannot switch into anything when not mega evolved. plus tran is starting to rise in usage and sub punch mawile is declining in usage. mawile is only good because of sucker punch tbh. its sucker punch after +2 is ridiculously powerful. however it just creates 50-50's. certain cores are hard to break through for it. mawile suffers from 4 move slot. if you run knock off skarm counters it if you run sub punch mega veunsaur counters it if you run fire punch tran counters it. all of these are common pokes. with the aegi ban its better because you dont have to predict with king shield mind games but its still not broken. mawile is definately centralizing to the meta game but not ban worthy like latias in dpp and lando i in bw.
Mono Fairy users usually run MMaw and teams are "Unbalanced without it" - Still not banworthy.
Plus, how is that relevant again? You never explained WHY it's not banworthy.
I see a lot of crying about how its broken and yet something like Arcanine literally stops it completely. The problem with most players is that they do not choose Pokemon like this because "Ew, lower tier Pokemon, fuck that~". Look for answers in tiers other than OU and I will guarantee you can successfully wall this thing. I have played M-Mawile offensively and defensively and both sets are not broken. With Intimidate and max HP/Def it can still barely live an EQ from say a Mamoswine, and Sucker Punch from the offensive one is never an OHKO unless it's super effective. I'm not saying M-Mawile is not a threat, I just find it very odd that everyone is so terrified of such a predictable Pokemon. Also it has crap for bulk if you didn't get to Mega-Evolve it beforehand, so switching in is hardly ever an option.
I would hate to see another stallbreaker leave the metagame and only improve stall even more, as it's pretty much already the main playstyle in Generation 6. Leave this thing be, it's scary but not scary enough to warrant a ban, in my humble opinion.
TL;DR:
No ban.
I would hate to see another stallbreaker leave the metagame and only improve stall even more, as it's pretty much already the main playstyle in Generation 6. Leave this thing be, it's scary but not scary enough to warrant a ban, in my humble opinion.
TL;DR:
No ban.
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Mega Maw runs two sets: SubPunch and SD (generally w/ Fire Fang as the coverage on SD). Both of which are amazingly threatening to a majority of the metagame, but the SubPunch set lures/kills what the SD is 'walled' by (i.e: Heatran).
With the Fairy/Steel typing and intimidate prior to mega evolving, it's fairly easy to switch it in, even vs offensive teams, while setting up once you get in isn't much harder. If you get a Sub up, it's at least one free kill vs Offensive teams while stall isn't going to do much better. As for the more common SD set, if you get an SD up, then revenge killing from things like Specs Keldeo is really the only way to check it as Fire Fang deals with pokemon like Ferrothorn and Skarmory (+2 kills Skarm after rocks, so it can't counter you or phase) and many pokemon that are typically revenge killers fail to do so due to powerful Sucker Punches and Mawile's typing. Even if you aren't setting up with it, it can hit like a truck and poke holes through teams very well.
Furthermore, with all of the characteristics of Mega Mawile taken into consideration, there is a lack of counters and checks to it in the XY OU metagame and it's broken.
With the Fairy/Steel typing and intimidate prior to mega evolving, it's fairly easy to switch it in, even vs offensive teams, while setting up once you get in isn't much harder. If you get a Sub up, it's at least one free kill vs Offensive teams while stall isn't going to do much better. As for the more common SD set, if you get an SD up, then revenge killing from things like Specs Keldeo is really the only way to check it as Fire Fang deals with pokemon like Ferrothorn and Skarmory (+2 kills Skarm after rocks, so it can't counter you or phase) and many pokemon that are typically revenge killers fail to do so due to powerful Sucker Punches and Mawile's typing. Even if you aren't setting up with it, it can hit like a truck and poke holes through teams very well.
Furthermore, with all of the characteristics of Mega Mawile taken into consideration, there is a lack of counters and checks to it in the XY OU metagame and it's broken.
Saying that you have to change your monotype team in an argument against banning something is stupid. No serious players use mono type teams for obvious reasons. You can be against a ban, and you have a right to be, but don't make shitty arguments like these.
You're wrong.
Without Mega-Mawile, we will have the Latis everywhere. It's slow AND if you let it set up, that's your fault.
This is not another Aegisslash situation, it does not mold the meta-game to it's favor and it is easily killed AND requires set up when it's even thrown out.
Honestly, Sucker Punch can be worked around with prediction and just because it has a good defensive type doesn't mean it isn't kill-able or make up for it's awful defenses.
DO NOT BAN MEGA-MAWILE.
Non Sub-Punch sets are walled by Heatran.
Speed leaves much to be desired, it's dependent on Sucker Punch, and it's vulnerable to being phazed out.
It's predictable as shit. If you see a Mawile being used in OU, you automatically know it's a Mega, as Mawile is complete garbage otherwise, and Mawile users generally run the same moves.
Do not ban.
Speed leaves much to be desired, it's dependent on Sucker Punch, and it's vulnerable to being phazed out.
It's predictable as shit. If you see a Mawile being used in OU, you automatically know it's a Mega, as Mawile is complete garbage otherwise, and Mawile users generally run the same moves.
Do not ban.
Amazing typing, sky high attack stat, a fantastic priority move to cover its low speed, access to swords dance, decent physical bulk...it is quite the powerhouse.
Play Rough is similar to Kyogre's Water Spout in the sense that if you bring Mawile in on something it can force out, you can just click play rough and get massive damage even on resisted hits. Obv it's not as strong as Kyogre's water spout and much slower, but it's almost as strong as WS would be outside of rain.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 262-310 (108.7 - 128.6%)
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 282-333 (117 - 138.1%)
And it's primary STAB move (play rough) of the best typing out there.
I will say right away I completely disagree with the view that everything needs a "universal counter" to not be OP. That's just false. Pokemon on a team work together to take down different threats. Not everything needs a cold stop like Skarmory is to Conkeldurr, and in fact a meta where everything has cold stops becomes the definition of RPS/overly matchup-dependent.
And, the list of checks to this guy is fairly large. Garchomp, Exca, Lando-T, Char X/Y...Given it relies a lot on sucker punch, one might figure that it's fairly easy to get one of them in on a predicted sucker punch and force it out/deal massive damage.
However, the fact that substitute is such a thing basically negates the "comes in for free" part, and I know this because SubPunch is the set I use almost exclusively when I play with MegaMaw teams. Checks, to come in without having to sac a pokemon, have to be able to predict when the opponent will go for a move that's safe for the check to switch into, and then come in. But Mawile doesn't have to predict what will come in--as long as it can predict "a switch," all it has to do is click substitute, and nail whatever comes in on the following turn, getting to select whatever move most suits it to damage the check. Even if something like Rotom-W comes in to volt switch out to try to mess up prediction, just click substitute again and you'll set up a new one on the turn Rotom breaks it.
Substitute also forces offensive pressure, meaning you can much more easily land a sucker punch if necessary, even two in some cases (one while opponent breaks sub, another if it tries to finish the job).
I hate to say it, but as much as I love this pokemon both in terms of design and competitive prowess, I'm on the ban side of this one, at least right now.
Play Rough is similar to Kyogre's Water Spout in the sense that if you bring Mawile in on something it can force out, you can just click play rough and get massive damage even on resisted hits. Obv it's not as strong as Kyogre's water spout and much slower, but it's almost as strong as WS would be outside of rain.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-F: 262-310 (108.7 - 128.6%)
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-F: 282-333 (117 - 138.1%)
And it's primary STAB move (play rough) of the best typing out there.
I will say right away I completely disagree with the view that everything needs a "universal counter" to not be OP. That's just false. Pokemon on a team work together to take down different threats. Not everything needs a cold stop like Skarmory is to Conkeldurr, and in fact a meta where everything has cold stops becomes the definition of RPS/overly matchup-dependent.
And, the list of checks to this guy is fairly large. Garchomp, Exca, Lando-T, Char X/Y...Given it relies a lot on sucker punch, one might figure that it's fairly easy to get one of them in on a predicted sucker punch and force it out/deal massive damage.
However, the fact that substitute is such a thing basically negates the "comes in for free" part, and I know this because SubPunch is the set I use almost exclusively when I play with MegaMaw teams. Checks, to come in without having to sac a pokemon, have to be able to predict when the opponent will go for a move that's safe for the check to switch into, and then come in. But Mawile doesn't have to predict what will come in--as long as it can predict "a switch," all it has to do is click substitute, and nail whatever comes in on the following turn, getting to select whatever move most suits it to damage the check. Even if something like Rotom-W comes in to volt switch out to try to mess up prediction, just click substitute again and you'll set up a new one on the turn Rotom breaks it.
Substitute also forces offensive pressure, meaning you can much more easily land a sucker punch if necessary, even two in some cases (one while opponent breaks sub, another if it tries to finish the job).
I hate to say it, but as much as I love this pokemon both in terms of design and competitive prowess, I'm on the ban side of this one, at least right now.
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