It was a matter of accuracy issues I had with Iron Tail since Hydreigon doesn't get Hone Claws. It also has much better overall coverage, and Head Smash's base power is so high it can muscle through Fairies to an extent anyway. I suppose Iron Tail can be slashed with it though.
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np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]
- Thread starter kokoloko
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>80 is better then 75 consistenetly smh
That set may take advantage of switches, but it's weak, and removes the key reason to use Hydreigon, it's great coverage
It is not even just the accuracy it is the fact that the other has recoil and that is just something you'd like to avoid if possible. Seeing as the main point of the move is to nail fairy types iron tail does just that without having to kill itself in the process. Considering that the set already has Substitute ontop of life orb a head smash is just not a very welcome prospect. Otherwise the set is just flawed because as the poster above mentioned it loses out on Hydregion's greatest asset.
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Aggron would like a word with you
Houndoom, Ampharos, Hydreigon, any good special attacker that finds its speed or power lacking. Kyurem.
Soooo, according to the most recent usage stats, vaporeon is leaving UU and manaphy is coming down.....
Suicune and Slowbro just got their ultimate counter? Lando-I's gonna get some competition for worlds fastest BL placement? Vaporeon leaving means one less viable counter to crocune and slowbro? discuss.
Friggen BP maka mah UU volt-turn team illegal. Who else can I phase AND wish pass with? (yes I know togetic can but..... it's togetic.... I really shouldn't need to elaborate).
Suicune and Slowbro just got their ultimate counter? Lando-I's gonna get some competition for worlds fastest BL placement? Vaporeon leaving means one less viable counter to crocune and slowbro? discuss.
Friggen BP maka mah UU volt-turn team illegal. Who else can I phase AND wish pass with? (yes I know togetic can but..... it's togetic.... I really shouldn't need to elaborate).
manaphy has already been BL'd before UU even started, I think she was down just below OU when UU was popping up. She was lumped with Kyurem-b if I remember correctly.
There's still some hope that Vaporeon will stay in UU, as long as the OU council doesn't take its sweet 'ol time to nerf BP. I expect her usage to drop like a stone once that happens, and since ratings for this month are weighted much higher than the previous two, she may barely miss the cutoff.
QuiverPass is pretty strong, mostly because of Venomoth. It can basically set up on anyone with a Sleep Powder, though there's still the chance of the Pokemon waking up and killing Venomoth.
As for recipients, QuiverPass has a shit-ton of good recipients. Nidos, Pory-Z, Chandelure, Kyurem, Megaman, etc. Essentially any Pokemon that loves a Special Attack and Speed boost would appreciate it. Furthermore, a lot of them have good typing synergy with each other e.g. Chandelure, making the switch a safe pivot.
Any word on what people think of Zone getting banned or staying? I played Anger Management and his followers said 3 people already voted, Limitless voting for BL
I really hope it doesn't get banned, it's good and it's strong, but it doesn't shit on things like Weavile does, nobody uses the magnet pull set for a lack of viable steels that it can beat and it's slow as piss. I think it can provide diversity to the meta, making people think twice about going lol f u bulky water/Florges.
Kind of on the fence about Magnezone tbh: it's a gigantic nuke, but it has to go after everything and its weaknesses aren't exactly rare either, even if he does have a shit ton of resistances to switch into.
I think it's somewhat broken, but only because of Florges and how it basically insta-wins the moment it turns into a mag vs florges matchup. (aka use umbreon pls even though that motherfucker is stupid). Other than that I can't really think of any other reason why it'd be broken.
I think it's somewhat broken, but only because of Florges and how it basically insta-wins the moment it turns into a mag vs florges matchup. (aka use umbreon pls even though that motherfucker is stupid). Other than that I can't really think of any other reason why it'd be broken.
I am really torn on Magnezone. On the one hand, you have an absolute nuke capable of clearing a path for many sweepers and choice scarf users that border on broken due to how easily it can defeat some of the top special walls in the tier. But on the other, Zone is ridiculously slow and 2 of its 3 weaknesses are stupid common (Fighting and Fire) with the other not exactly being uncommon either. I can certainly see how many view it as broken since it absolutely breaks Florges + bulky Water (usually Slowbro) but it's called adapting. If one defensive core is stupid easy to just slap on a team and call it a day with, i don't think that's too healthy. Zone can break this habit easily while still having its slowness (that a word?) and common weaknesses holding it back from absolutely wrecking virtually anything in sight. Leaning toward it being not broken, but I feel this is one we'll probably want to revisit at a later time, regardless of the result, as future shifts could make it better or worse for the meta.
I hate the specs set (clearly the nukiest) because it seems like every person I play has Donphan/ a Nido/other ground types that make volt switch a fifty/fifty, and generally Flash Cannon has poor coverage and lol hp grass. But on the other hand, Assult Vest just doesn't have the oomph that specs does.
okay so i guess i'll give my official opinion on magnezone
i voted uu, here's why:
while its true that mag makes enough of a splash in the teir to shift it towards a more offensive one (which is the main reason the BL-voters voted that way), this is not a good reason to send it back to BL. pokemon being introduced to a tier will inherently shift the metagame to accommodate them--tiering 101. while, yes, over-centralization is a good reason to ban something, this isn't a case of over-centralization. that happens when you have to go out of your way* to counter something in any** build you make and that something has a limited amount of checks/counters. this isn't the case with magnezone.
mag also has fire and fighting weaknesses--literally the most common/best attacking types in UU, extremely low speed making it easily checkable by even slow pokemon, no recovery, and is suseptible to spikes, making it easy to wear down. not to mention what godsend said just above me which i agree with 100%
its a good breaker/momentum creator--that's what it does. that doesn't make it broken.
*out of your way - obviously not just keeping them in mind when building. i mean having to use obscure or suboptimal sets/pokemon in order to not get fucked by it.
**any - i mean any archetype, as in offense, balance, stall, bulky offense
i voted uu, here's why:
while its true that mag makes enough of a splash in the teir to shift it towards a more offensive one (which is the main reason the BL-voters voted that way), this is not a good reason to send it back to BL. pokemon being introduced to a tier will inherently shift the metagame to accommodate them--tiering 101. while, yes, over-centralization is a good reason to ban something, this isn't a case of over-centralization. that happens when you have to go out of your way* to counter something in any** build you make and that something has a limited amount of checks/counters. this isn't the case with magnezone.
mag also has fire and fighting weaknesses--literally the most common/best attacking types in UU, extremely low speed making it easily checkable by even slow pokemon, no recovery, and is suseptible to spikes, making it easy to wear down. not to mention what godsend said just above me which i agree with 100%
its a good breaker/momentum creator--that's what it does. that doesn't make it broken.
*out of your way - obviously not just keeping them in mind when building. i mean having to use obscure or suboptimal sets/pokemon in order to not get fucked by it.
**any - i mean any archetype, as in offense, balance, stall, bulky offense
I've been playing zone since it game back and I don't have an issue with ground types. Nido is annoying because HP Grass dosn't OHKO it, but flash cannon does. Nidoqueen can switch in, but wont be taking a flash cannon very nicely
Donphan is netted by flash cannon or HP grass, is slower so can't switch in.
Mega man does not stop VS after it evolves and can barely handle resisted hits from specs+analytic magnezone meaning Volt switches are doing over half after they mega, and flash cannon does up to 87% before the mega.
Not even Sp.def Hippo can switch in safely because HP grass and Flash cannon each can do upwards from 60% on the switch in, leaving it well in range to be taken out by a non-analytic attack even after leftovers.
And honestly going out of the realm of ground types is risky because then magnezone can just volt switch all day and always bring in something to deal with your switch in. But honestly saying its trouble to take out ground types or volt absorbers that block your VSing is an understatement and volt swiches don't care if you're a solid counter. Your ampharos is not going to have much time to rest when its now in front of its own counter and because nothing else on your team can even take a volt switch (or has already been O/2HKO'd by flash cannon) you're slowly running out of options.
I should also mention that magnezone is one of the best counters to swampert Leads that aim to just get up stealth rock basically, I've been creeping the speed on my magnezone just to ensure I'm faster than these leads.
When you see the ammount of things that magnezone easily switches in to the opportunity to steal synergy is astounding and this is only stopped by double switching, having u-turn on everything or nonviable/unpopular (for anything but magnezone) sets like HP ground/fire Florges
I don't know if this makes it overpowered, but it sure seemed like it to me.
Donphan is netted by flash cannon or HP grass, is slower so can't switch in.
Mega man does not stop VS after it evolves and can barely handle resisted hits from specs+analytic magnezone meaning Volt switches are doing over half after they mega, and flash cannon does up to 87% before the mega.
Not even Sp.def Hippo can switch in safely because HP grass and Flash cannon each can do upwards from 60% on the switch in, leaving it well in range to be taken out by a non-analytic attack even after leftovers.
And honestly going out of the realm of ground types is risky because then magnezone can just volt switch all day and always bring in something to deal with your switch in. But honestly saying its trouble to take out ground types or volt absorbers that block your VSing is an understatement and volt swiches don't care if you're a solid counter. Your ampharos is not going to have much time to rest when its now in front of its own counter and because nothing else on your team can even take a volt switch (or has already been O/2HKO'd by flash cannon) you're slowly running out of options.
I should also mention that magnezone is one of the best counters to swampert Leads that aim to just get up stealth rock basically, I've been creeping the speed on my magnezone just to ensure I'm faster than these leads.
When you see the ammount of things that magnezone easily switches in to the opportunity to steal synergy is astounding and this is only stopped by double switching, having u-turn on everything or nonviable/unpopular (for anything but magnezone) sets like HP ground/fire Florges
I don't know if this makes it overpowered, but it sure seemed like it to me.
I have to agree with all the people that said UU:
Magnezone is really strong first of all, there is no denying in that. With base 135 special attack, Choice Specs and even a possible Analytic boost, nothing can really safely switch into it. It's typing is also great, while it gives some unfortunate weaknesses which I will go over later. It's steel electric typing gives it a slew of good resistances like Flying, Psychic and one of the most important things, it resists the famous Boltbeam coverage.
While all of those things sound great it isn't without it's fair share of flaws. While it is a difficult Pokemon to straight up counter, checking it is a whole lot easier with Magnezone's low speed. You can run a Choice Scarf to get rid of it's mediocre speed but then you are being counterproductive with Analytic ( switching opponents can still be punished with Analytic however. Also nubs don't use Magnet Pull since there are barely any Steel types to trap ). As I mentioned checking Magnezone is fairly easy as with it's common Fire, Fighting and Ground weaknesses like Kokoloko mentioned. Checks to Magnezone include Chandelure, Arcanine, Entei, Darmanitan, Flygon, Nidoking, Mienshou and any other Fire, Fighting or ground type you can think off. Also like Kokoloko said it wears down over time with repeated switch ins into Stealth Rock, resisted attacks that wear it down over time and possibly Spikes damage. Add to that the fact that Magnezone doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Rest and it probably won't last the whole match.
Now even with all the negative things I said Magnezone is still a great Pokemon but it isn't overpowered so Magnezone for UU.
Magnezone is really strong first of all, there is no denying in that. With base 135 special attack, Choice Specs and even a possible Analytic boost, nothing can really safely switch into it. It's typing is also great, while it gives some unfortunate weaknesses which I will go over later. It's steel electric typing gives it a slew of good resistances like Flying, Psychic and one of the most important things, it resists the famous Boltbeam coverage.
While all of those things sound great it isn't without it's fair share of flaws. While it is a difficult Pokemon to straight up counter, checking it is a whole lot easier with Magnezone's low speed. You can run a Choice Scarf to get rid of it's mediocre speed but then you are being counterproductive with Analytic ( switching opponents can still be punished with Analytic however. Also nubs don't use Magnet Pull since there are barely any Steel types to trap ). As I mentioned checking Magnezone is fairly easy as with it's common Fire, Fighting and Ground weaknesses like Kokoloko mentioned. Checks to Magnezone include Chandelure, Arcanine, Entei, Darmanitan, Flygon, Nidoking, Mienshou and any other Fire, Fighting or ground type you can think off. Also like Kokoloko said it wears down over time with repeated switch ins into Stealth Rock, resisted attacks that wear it down over time and possibly Spikes damage. Add to that the fact that Magnezone doesn't have reliable recovery outside of Rest and it probably won't last the whole match.
Now even with all the negative things I said Magnezone is still a great Pokemon but it isn't overpowered so Magnezone for UU.
Let's say in theory, you have your mag in against suicune and your opponent has Nidoqueen (both are common and have synergy, not an unlikely scenario). You can either Volt Switch/Thunderbolt and aim for the Suicune or Flash Cannon predicting the switch. Like I said, it becomes a 50/50 and it comes down to predicting. This scenario may not be an issue against an average ladderer, but when you are pitted against competent players, that 50/50 could lose you the game. Possibly giving a free turn to one of the most dangerous mons in the tier is never a good time, and mag himself can't recover from that because his lack of speed. Now, don't get me wrong, mag is great and I enjoy using him, just not broken.
yeah, basically koko summedup what i would say. tbh, i think it's worth it running enough speed evs (112, i think? i'll have to check) to outrun megastoise and ohko with a t-bolt, sure you miss out on some of the analytic boosts, but it lets magnezone have an easier time killing things, and possibly cleaning late game.
I just think that Zone should drop because whenever something drops that seems OP to the current meta, people do not want it. Florges and Bulky Waters run rampant, isn't it okay that something drops so Pokes like Snorlax and other offensive mons be used? I just think it's healthy for the meta to be more diverse. Right now, I'm willing to bet at least 15-20% of teams carry Florges, and an even greater amount carry a bulky water on a team, not to mention together.
Magnezone's presence gives me more excuses to run defensive Ampharos...yes, yes...I like this...
Seriously though, it's a pretty decent check, use it if you hate Zone that much. Fits into teams with incredible ease, great pivot, checks tons of special attackers, etc.
Seriously though, it's a pretty decent check, use it if you hate Zone that much. Fits into teams with incredible ease, great pivot, checks tons of special attackers, etc.
I'm not hip and poppin with trendy sets, mind sharing?
Guys, stop running 0 speed on Magnezone. Just because it uses Analytic, doesn't mean you want things to outspeed you. The primary use of Analytic is just to take advantage of predicted or forced switches, not for a consistent boost, moreso because Magnezone is a hit-and-run attacker. It has decent bulk and pivots, but it doesn't want to take that many hits. A good number for Speed is enough to outspeed Blastoise, but you can run more for Suicune or just max if you want to. Why get outsped by stuff like Swampert when it's completely within your power to not be?
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