KaiserAeros I'm pretty sure that the all time champion for most simultaneous bans of a single mon belongs to Wynaut in gen 3, an LC mon who got booted to ubers (ofc, one may argue that the purpose of the Wynaut ban was simply to instil a blanket ban on shadow tag without actually needing to do so, but that's another discussion).
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np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]
- Thread starter kokoloko
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LC didn't exist in gen 3...
...Get out.
doggy doo doo thundurus-t is BL, not UU.
banned.
GDI I'm to slow I'm to slow.
Why would you do this?
Oh lord. Honestly I just had a huge brain fart. Let's ignore that whole post lol.
Steel Wing is weak as piss and will never OHKO Florges, while Naive Mence are OHKOed by Moonblast without prior damage, hence why you want Iron Tail's power. I've never had problems with it myself.
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I know this is semi-old but...
This is correct. Roar (and by extension Whirlwind) has perfect accuracy this generation and won't be affected by Wonder Skin. The others are still true, however.
This is correct. Roar (and by extension Whirlwind) has perfect accuracy this generation and won't be affected by Wonder Skin. The others are still true, however.
You might as well rank Gothorita lmao. Ranking a Pokemon just for ST is definitely not a good idea.
in theory mence is kinda bad. mixed or special based sets are completely outclassed by hydreigon pretty much. dragon dance is cool but you can't spam outrage because florges exists, and it (from admittedly little playtesting) is kind of hard to set up because SR + life orb + priority is quite hindering. havent tested moxie scarf but i assume it'd suffer the same problem of florges existing + a lot of good bulky waters in the tier. band is interesting but id probably rather use victini.
Just putting it out there, Intimidate Salamence > Moxie Salamence.
Now that it's main competitor for Dragon Dance is gone (Haxorus), Salamence has a monopoly over the Dragon Dance booster market, so Intimidate works much better. With an Intimidate drop, Salamence can actually switch into things like Mienshao, Heracross, and Victini and use them as set-up fodder. Moxie is overkill right now, and imo I think ScarfMence isn't as strong as its last stay in the meta, where it was used to kill Haxorus and Hydreigon (Hydreigon's still strong, though I'm not too sure how common the ScarfDreigon sets are).
I definitely may be crazy, but I think Salamence actually is somewhat balanced in this meta. Aromatisse + Florges + bulky waters (mostly Slowbro), and even Mew to some degree stop him hard. Furthermore, all of the aforementioned threats require different Pokemon to break them, so you can't have a Salamence + breaker to auto-win. He's definitely unkillable as a late game sweeper, but that goes for almost every set up Pokemon. The fact that he can't just spam Outrage or setup + win whenever it wants definitely makes him a somewhat balanced Pokemon here.
Now that it's main competitor for Dragon Dance is gone (Haxorus), Salamence has a monopoly over the Dragon Dance booster market, so Intimidate works much better. With an Intimidate drop, Salamence can actually switch into things like Mienshao, Heracross, and Victini and use them as set-up fodder. Moxie is overkill right now, and imo I think ScarfMence isn't as strong as its last stay in the meta, where it was used to kill Haxorus and Hydreigon (Hydreigon's still strong, though I'm not too sure how common the ScarfDreigon sets are).
I definitely may be crazy, but I think Salamence actually is somewhat balanced in this meta. Aromatisse + Florges + bulky waters (mostly Slowbro), and even Mew to some degree stop him hard. Furthermore, all of the aforementioned threats require different Pokemon to break them, so you can't have a Salamence + breaker to auto-win. He's definitely unkillable as a late game sweeper, but that goes for almost every set up Pokemon. The fact that he can't just spam Outrage or setup + win whenever it wants definitely makes him a somewhat balanced Pokemon here.
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One of the real let downs on ScarfMence is no U-Turn or Volt Switch which makes it very hard to use early game to gain the momentum. Even Flygon has 1 up on mence because of this and a Rock resistance rather than a rock weakness. Mixed sets kind of suck because they are pretty badly walled by Florges, and if you choose to run Iron Tail you'll most likely miss out on Draco-Meteoring Slowbro who can wreck you with Ice Beam. So far mence actually seems rather balanced from what I can tell, though I really haven't seen many. I went through spectating like 50 games on the UU ladder to find a Salamence and see how it functions and so far I have been rather underwhelmed.
Honestly I think that SR weakness and lack of pivot really works against Salamence and makes Flygon and Hydreigon better fits on most teams as they can play a part of much more of the game.
EDIT: Its main niche at the moment will probably lie in its DD set, though I haven't seen how well that can do yet. Probably get around to trying it late.
Honestly I think that SR weakness and lack of pivot really works against Salamence and makes Flygon and Hydreigon better fits on most teams as they can play a part of much more of the game.
EDIT: Its main niche at the moment will probably lie in its DD set, though I haven't seen how well that can do yet. Probably get around to trying it late.
Most off the people ive seen using Salamene has used it wrong, and I would say it's top tier and I do think it will get bl again just because off the dd set is just so easy to abuse. Salamence sits on a really comfortable speed tier and you should always use Dragon Claw > Outrage as it will be more than good enough after a couple off boosts, tho mence suffer from 4MSS it can usually run the coverage it needs to as theres a reason why you have 5 other mons on your team. When ive used mence it's always been the pokemon that has sweeped the opposing team, and it's been so easy to do so because you really don't need more than one dd down because mence has decent bulk, and it sits on a nice speed tier which means it can be incredibly hard to revenge kill without a faster scarfer that can ko it.
i hate scarfmence its def not outclassing scarf hydreigon which has a fantastic u-turn and no sr weakness and is a fantastic lead should you need it to lead. with scarfhydrei you can always get a lead advantage if you use another dedicated lead like sash elf but not with scarfmence...i just hate him its so bad
Scarfmence doesn't play like Scarf Hydra. Scarf Hydra, and other scarfers, are more of a hit and run/revenge killer role. Scarfmence is a win condition; once any fairies (Florges, Garde (OU soon prob,) Aromatisse)/Ice Shard users (Cloyster, Donphan)/>100 Scarfers (p. much just Shao) are gone, and any steel types are sufficiently weakened/gone, you can just PRESS OUTRAGE WIN GAME, as very few things are able to take a hit after just one Moxie boost.
Unaware Quagsire is also a halt to your Scarfmence rampage.
any teammate with a grass type move or strong special attack will halt your quagsire lol tbh i dont find quaggy that good this gen
In regards to Salamence, I believe (from minimal testing mind you) that the only roles it can fill better than the other three dragons in UU (Flygon, Noivern, and Hydreigon) are the DD Set (only one of them that can even use DD) and Scarf cleaner sets. Hydreigon is a better wall-breaker/nuke, Flygon has access to U-Turn allowing it to pivot out, and Noivern is kinda meh IMO.
EDIT: Thanks to Bouffalant for reminding me that Salamence is the only one out of these Dragons capable of even using DD.
EDIT: Thanks to Bouffalant for reminding me that Salamence is the only one out of these Dragons capable of even using DD.
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Aslong as Salamance or any other stat booster has to leave and drop their stat boosts Quagsire fulfills his niche.
Exactly the point I was about to make :)
how in god's name is mence a better scarfer than flygon or hydrei, i mean it's good provided you manage to get a moxie boost but that's really difficult due to the fact that bulky waters and flogre are fucking everywhere in this meta, also as others have said it doesn't get access to u-turn. also if you're using iron tail you run the risk of it missing + the fact that you basically get raped up the ass by forry once you lock yourself into outrage
i agree with spooky that it should be considered a wincon but anyone who believes that it plays like flygon and hydreigon have their head stuck up their ass
i agree with spooky that it should be considered a wincon but anyone who believes that it plays like flygon and hydreigon have their head stuck up their ass
If your referring to me, I only compared them; I stated their differences and only said that it was a better cleaner than the other dragons.
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