Any word on if Victini is gonna get the boot or not?
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np: XY UU Stage 3 - Calling [Diggersby: BL, Next: Scolipede]
- Thread starter kokoloko
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So what are people's thoughts on Lucario in this tier now that it's two biggest counters are gone? Slowbo and Mew.
No longer does it have to run Crunch as an option. It can opt for better coverage moves like EQ or Bullet Punch.
From my experience, lucario gets an easy set up late game after a little bit of scouting puts people in a checkmate position.
No longer does it have to run Crunch as an option. It can opt for better coverage moves like EQ or Bullet Punch.
From my experience, lucario gets an easy set up late game after a little bit of scouting puts people in a checkmate position.
I wouldn't say specifically checkmate. There are still plenty of offensive checks (mega aero, crobat to an extent when it's a bit weakened, victini during this retest, cobalion for non-NP sets, scarf chandy, et al) but it's really good. But that's where I'll leave it; it's really good, but not broken enough. It has a bit of a difficulty setting up especially against offensive teams due to its frailty, but is undoubtedly the best cleaner in the tier.
I'd say Lucario is the biggest threat in late game, bar none. It reminds me of how Sharpedo + Frosslass was last gen. With some Hazards and the right moves, it can basically sweep entire teams after turn ~20. Running BP + Espeed is completely viable if you run something like Pursuit Mega-Aero to take care of Chandey etc.
Hey, welcome to the party everybody. I brought Lucario up seven pages ago regarding how it was rather threatening, and nobody noticed.
And in all reality, it isn't. It is way too slow, to the point where you're forced to run priority in order to be effective, as anything faster than you with a SE move flat out donks you. Everybody overhypes the SD set too. The real threat is the NP set, as its almost habitual to throw something like defensive Arcanine or Gligar in front of Lucario once it comes out. Great shift of momentum when you've got something like Mega-Aerodactyl or CB Something in the wings waiting to smash.
Needs Sticky Web support to be truly terrifying, and we all know how hard that is to maintain.
And in all reality, it isn't. It is way too slow, to the point where you're forced to run priority in order to be effective, as anything faster than you with a SE move flat out donks you. Everybody overhypes the SD set too. The real threat is the NP set, as its almost habitual to throw something like defensive Arcanine or Gligar in front of Lucario once it comes out. Great shift of momentum when you've got something like Mega-Aerodactyl or CB Something in the wings waiting to smash.
Needs Sticky Web support to be truly terrifying, and we all know how hard that is to maintain.
Better start using Kricketune, UU.
What's wrong with shuckle?
From what I've heard in RU, the two play differently. Shuckle can set up webs multiple times due to it's bulk whereas most tricks only get one chance at setting up. However, Kricketunes access to taunt and endeavor allows it to function better as a offensive lead that can seriously cripple opposing teams, especially with endeavor. I personally find krick to be better suited for a more offensive playstyle.
Hi, just here to let you know Victini will be joining Smeargle among others in BL. Paragraphs will go up shortly.
I have to say, I am happy for the Victini ban. I think it caused so many problems just from sheer power and versatility.
adding on to what Calloflochie said, the next retest will be alakazite, then togekiss, then zygarde.
Welp, time for mega aero to go back to Jolly Nature. Im not sure how this retest will go. That base 175 sp atk and 150 speed will let it tear through the tier, but magic guard is a great ability to check non multi hit boosters (dual chop hax and cloyster). Its still checked by relatively common scarfers and priority users without going too extreme.
252 Atk Mienshao U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 212-250 (84.1 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Darmanitan U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 230-272 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 187-221 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 414-488 (164.2 - 193.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 192-226 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Im not going to start the offensive pressure checks it argument, but its bulk cant compare to Victini, which increases the number of checks. Not so much counters since it has access to Psyshock and Psychi to tear through physical and special walls.
Also, good riddance on Tini!
I am so excited to see Tini gone as its bulk coupled with the sheer power and versatility it had made it a huge threat; it will not be missed. I am also glad to know what is upcoming for retests.
I love this display. It shows that although Mega Alakazam has a ton of power backed by a nice speed tier, it is still not able to take hits from major UU threats, such as Mienshao and Mega Absol. This one to be honest, is gonna be a toughie. I agree with the fact that Alakazam loves Magic Guard to basically be the best revenge killer in the tier, but MegaZam was good iirc when it was here because of Trace if you predicted the right switch-ins. Another way is it was able to get around faster threats/walls was by using Sub to avoid status / Sucker Punch. I didn't have much experience with MegaZam as I didn't use it much when it was here so I am definitely going to try it out this time around.
Excited to know Togekiss is after that and if it stays, then Zygarde has a decent chance of staying; although the general consensus on both seem to leave them in BL.
I love this display. It shows that although Mega Alakazam has a ton of power backed by a nice speed tier, it is still not able to take hits from major UU threats, such as Mienshao and Mega Absol. This one to be honest, is gonna be a toughie. I agree with the fact that Alakazam loves Magic Guard to basically be the best revenge killer in the tier, but MegaZam was good iirc when it was here because of Trace if you predicted the right switch-ins. Another way is it was able to get around faster threats/walls was by using Sub to avoid status / Sucker Punch. I didn't have much experience with MegaZam as I didn't use it much when it was here so I am definitely going to try it out this time around.
Excited to know Togekiss is after that and if it stays, then Zygarde has a decent chance of staying; although the general consensus on both seem to leave them in BL.
Sub is a good option, but Alakazam loves the coverage. Psyshock, Shadowball and Dazzling Gleam hits most of the tier pretty hard. But, that energy Ball, psychic and Focus Miss is nice too. You could also run Scarf Crobat with Infiltrator as a fantastic lure to mega zam, including SubZam.
Shuckle is banned in RU, so Kricketune is only used because its the best of the remaining webbers left. I'd probably prefer to use Galvantula as an offensive setter here, but I still think shuckle is really better overall as hazard removal is much more difficult to prevent in UU.
Anyway, so glad tini is gone :>
I agree. That is why this is gonna be a tough retest, because on one hand, the power and speed MegaZam provides is immaculate in terms of an offensive mon, but it lacks the bulk that say Tini had and it fits the "bill" of an offensive mon with great speed and power but with little bulk.
The deciding factor is gonna probably come down to this question...
Does MegaZam's power, speed, and coverage (i.e. its positives) outweigh its lack of Magic Guard and overall bulk (i.e. its negatives)?
When I look at those calcs and see that I am not getting those key KOs guaranteed it makes M-Zam look almost scarier. Note that Stealth Rocks won't matter the first time round, because it will have Magic Guard prior to Mevolving. None of those Pokemon can exactly switch in either except M-Absol on a well predicted Psyshock/Psychic, and everything else is bound to eat a nasty blow from that massive Special attack.
I don't know dude, this thing might be frail but you still have to note that it literally outruns the entire non-scarfed meta and 2hkos 90% of the meta with its 3 moves coverage. It is like an LO boosted Scarfer that can switch up moves without LO recoil. It might die to Scarfed U-turns but nothing is really stopping it from switching out, except Pursuit. Not to mention it has a wide movepool (CM, T.wave, Disable/Encore) and Trace for switching in/checking stuff (Hello Nido, ty for killing Florges so I can spam S.Force boosted Shadow Balls n_n)
Theyre checks for the reason that they cant switch in on Zam. Hes obviously going to tear through teams and its either priority, scarfer or Sticky web support that will check Mega Zam. Its list of counters are going to be few at best.
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 325-384 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 174-206 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 97-115 (24 - 28.4%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO
Melo is probably the one true counter to Mega Zam not being 2hko by even modest mega zam. Everything else can be 2hko. Im on the fence still, but looking at its stats and coverage is a great start though in the retst analysis
IMO, what we need to first acknowledge is the fact that a Modest-natured Mega Alakazam literally hits as hard as its timid LO non-mega-- except with a base speed that matches that of M-Aerodactyl. In addition, we all observed after the June drops that MegaZam could single-handedly dismantle a whole variety of teams, especially if they didn't have things that could either tank a hit and smash it back or RK it. Personally, I still think MegaZam is still broken regardless of the tier shifts, but we ought to find out soon enough anyways.
I dont get what makes this mon very different than Life Orb Zam. Correct me if I'm wrong, but its got a tiny bit more defense, and the ability to outspeed Crobat and (lol)Noivern. Losing Magic Guard kinda sucks, you aren't going to be tracing many more helpful abiilites than that, the exceptions being Sturdy, Regenerator, Nidoqueen's Sheer Force, and perhaps some other, more situational abilities, but very rarely does Trace come in more handy than Magic Guard. If someone could explain to me what makes this mon better than Life Orb Zam, I'm all ears, but right now I see no reason to run this over another mega, much less ban it from the tier.
You said it yourself; MZam has an epic speed tier which allows not to get KOed by Bat and Vern and outpseeding them and KOing them instead. MZam is so frail anyways so that "vulnerable to entry hazard" argument is meh. Only thin rgeular Zam has over its Mega is Sash.
Okay, my real argument. imo MegaZam really overall broken, from what I've seen in the antiban arguments, they're mostly from a theorymonning standpoint. I've tried battling it with a normal UU team, and it's really dam hard to beat. Offensive teams will have multiple checks (I see at least 2 per team), but the trick is you have to sacrifice something to let your RKer come in, and that in itself is extremely tedious and obviously makes Zam already grounds for being broken. The other thing is that it puts huge strain on teambuilding by forcing you to run weird sets to beat it. I had to use AV Melo once Kasib SubCM Cresselia the other time just to win against same user the second and third times. But MegaZam's work is really on stall. Literally nothing can switch-in on it except for Cresselia, Melo and PhysDef Blissey, which will open up the team to other threats instead, which really shows how broken it is for me.
$0.02
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