NU Analyses Discussion Thread 2.0

Did another quick sweep through the dex today and I got a few things:

Jynx: I moved Sash to the first slash over Life Orb, the ability to avoid revenge killing once is more important than the power of LO. I also want to bring up removing Scarf. It's a similar case to Scarf Haunter in that it just struggles so much to be effective in this meta for a variety of reasons, especially compared to its other sets.

Lilligant: I have similar doubts about this thing's Scarf set as well.

Luxray and Lumineon: I deleted these two's analyses because they're bad pkmn

Malamar: Thoughts on removing ChestoRest? It just seems like an inferior way to combine Sub and RestTalk into one.

Scyther: Deslash Bug Bite from SD imo, it just doesn't compare to U-turn's momentum-grabbing ability. I also think Tailwind should be the main slash on slot 4 for Scarf Scyther after seeing Kiyo pull so many games through with it.
 
Blast said:
Did another quick sweep through the dex today and I got a few things:

Jynx: I moved Sash to the first slash over Life Orb, the ability to avoid revenge killing once is more important than the power of LO. I also want to bring up removing Scarf. It's a similar case to Scarf Haunter in that it just struggles so much to be effective in this meta for a variety of reasons, especially compared to its other sets.

Lilligant: I have similar doubts about this thing's Scarf set as well.

Luxray and Lumineon: I deleted these two's analyses because they're bad pkmn

Malamar: Thoughts on removing ChestoRest? It just seems like an inferior way to combine Sub and RestTalk into one.

Scyther: Deslash Bug Bite from SD imo, it just doesn't compare to U-turn's momentum-grabbing ability. I also think Tailwind should be the main slash on slot 4 for Scarf Scyther after seeing Kiyo pull so many games through with it.
Click to expand...
agree with jynx
agree with lilligant
i mean technically luxray has a niche but yeah its bad
i actually think specs lumineon is a good mon, i know i kinda used it as a meme set but on more offensive teams a fast defogger with some power behind it is nice. its also not weak to rocks which is why i'd consider it over swanna mantine or archeops. worth some discussion i guess, its definitely not top tier but it's a set i've considered using on some serious teams.
i didnt even know chestorest malamar existed, that sounds terrible lol. sub and resttalk should be fine
 
Combed through as well, this list is a combination of stuff I'm unsure of, changes I've made, and comments on stuff that has been brought up.

Archeops - Focus Blast should probably be deslashed. When I had originally asked for it to be on the analysis, it was more or less based on theorymon and I haven't seen the move used ever, and its unreliability doesnt seem worth using over HP Grass or Aqua Tail. (done)

Beheeyem - Thoughts on slashing HP Ground after Trick? OHKOing Skunk on the switch sounds pretty nice.

Dragonair - Removed the analysis because it was removed from viability rankings and I dont think its worth using in this meta.

Floatzel - I think Baton Pass should replace HP Electric as the slash after Taunt, as its really nice to keep up offensive momentum and Pelipper / Mantine arent super common these days. (done)

Golurk - Deslashed Passho Berry because well, Colbur Berry is just so much more consistent and effective.

Jynx - Removed Choice Scarf.

Malamar - If anyone wants to go ahead and remove restochesto go ahead, but I've put up a full revamp for Malamar up for grabs as the on site info is super outdated.

Musharna - I feel Colbur Berry should get a slash on CM (I dont really think I need to explain why, just helping it check fighting types makes it seem worthy of the slash imo). (done)

Samurott - I strongly feel that Aqua Jet deserves its own moveslot, its so important to revenge Archeops, Pyroar, and the likes. Move 3 should be Jet alone and move 4 should be Megahorn / Taunt (Maybe just Megahorn). (done)

Scyther - Removed Bug Bite slash from SD and made move 4 on scarf Bug Bite / Tailwind.

Tauros - Added Work Up to OO.
 
Last edited:
boltsandbombers said:
Combed through as well, this list is a combination of stuff I'm unsure of, changes I've made, and comments on stuff that has been brought up.

Archeops - Focus Blast should probably be deslashed. When I had originally asked for it to be on the analysis, it was more or less based on theorymon and I haven't seen the move used ever, and its unreliability doesnt seem worth using over HP Grass or Aqua Tail.

Beheeyem - Thoughts on slashing HP Ground after Trick? OHKOing Skunk on the switch sounds pretty nice.

Dragonair - Removed the analysis because it was removed from viability rankings and I dont think its worth using in this meta.

Floatzel - I think Baton Pass should replace HP Electric as the slash after Taunt, as its really nice to keep up offensive momentum and Pelipper / Mantine arent super common these days.

Golurk - Deslashed Passho Berry because well, Colbur Berry is just so much more consistent and effective.

Jynx - Removed Choice Scarf.

Malamar - If anyone wants to go ahead and remove restochesto go ahead, but I've put up a full revamp for Malamar up for grabs as the on site info is super outdated.

Musharna - I feel Colbur Berry should get a slash on CM (I dont really think I need to explain why, just helping it check fighting types makes it seem worthy of the slash imo).

Samurott - I strongly feel that Aqua Jet deserves its own moveslot, its so important to revenge Archeops, Pyroar, and the likes. Move 3 should be Jet alone and move 4 should be Megahorn / Taunt (Maybe just Megahorn).

Scyther - Removed Bug Bite slash from SD and made move 4 on scarf Bug Bite / Tailwind.

Tauros - Added Work Up to OO.
Click to expand...
Archeops - not sure I agree with removing Focus Blast from slashes since its really nice to hit so many things with one moveslot (Rhydon, Regi, Steels etc)
Beheeyem - if its actually a OHKO I 100% agree with it
Dragonair - agree
Floatzel - agree. might even want to see Baton Pass ahead of Taunt, but I probably just use BP more due to the offensive nature of my teams so other opinions would be nice
Golurk - agree
Jynx - agree
Malamar - revamp is fine enough
Musharna - agree
Samurott - agree
Scyther - agree
Tauros - agree
:toast:
 
I'd support deslashing Focus Blast on Archeops, I haven't seen anyone use it and it's pretty shaky in general with accuracy and the fact that it's pretty dependent on high damage rolls.

For Beheeyem, I don't really feel that strongly either way since I've never used it, but HP Ground seems kinda shaky just because of how terrible it is to be locked into it and that it's really only for one mon. Totally fine with a Moves mention but I'd like more discussion on a full slash.

went over the rest on PS with bolts :toast:

Also since no one opposed it, I removed Scarf Lilligant as well.
 
looked thru old analyses and heres some stuff i picked up.
  • yanma has an analysis
  • haunter should probably get a set analysis for subsplit. honestly its crazy strong with great coverage, and subsplit absolutely trashes slower builds. as it naturally forces switches with its amazing power, using subsplit lets you take advantage of those, while also mitigating its susceptability to revenge killing. i mean yeah its p vulnerable to skuntank that way, but skuntank is (as you know) incredibly easy to wear down, and but i think its doing it an injustice by putting it in oo for that reason. also, hp ground should be put in oo
  • simisage should get a revamp. the nasty plot set is outclassed by lilligant and the mixed set's only niche over shiftry is being able to take down audino with gunk nvm im dumb
  • metang should get an analysis. its a rocker that blanket checks so many threats to slower, such as kanga, klinklang, archeops, and jynx. i seriously cant emphasize how great having a reliable jynx check is for bulkier teams. while yes it does have a vulnerability to knock off, due to its weakness to dark and relience on evio for bulk, youre usually gonna be pairing it with mega dino so thats kinda mitigated. if youre interested in using it yourself, heres the spread i use.
    Metang @ Eviolite
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 132 Def / 16 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch

    evs let you dodge the 2hko from archeop's earthquake, ohko mild 0 hp magmortar with eq, with the remainder in spdef to handle jynx a little better. also its in c- so its about as good as stuff thats already being asked to get revamped, like rotom-fridge.
 
Last edited:
astroboy said:
looked thru old analyses and heres some stuff i picked up. writing on mobile, sorry if this is sloppy. while you might disagree with something, read it and appropriately disagree, dont just read the first sentence and be like "WTF US THSI"
  • yanma has an analysis
  • haunter should probably get a set analysis for subsplit. honestly its crazy strong with great coverage, and subsplit absolutely trashes slower builds. as it naturally forces switches with its amazing power, using subsplit lets you take advantage of those, while also mitigating its susceptability to revenge killing. i mean yeah its p vulnerable to skuntank that way, but skuntank is (as you know) incredibly easy to wear down, and but i think its doing it an injustice by putting it in oo for that reason. also, hp ground should be put in oo
  • simisage should get a revamp. the nasty plot set is outclassed by lilligant and the mixed set's only niche over shiftry is being able to take down audino with gunk
  • metang should get an analysis. its a rocker that blanket checks so many threats to slower, such as kanga, klinklang, archeops, and jynx. i seriously cant emphasize how great having a reliable jynx check is for bulkier teams. while yes it does have a vulnerability to knock off, due to its weakness to dark and relience on evio for bulk, youre usually gonna be pairing it with mega dino so thats kinda mitigated. if youre interested in using it yourself, heres the spread i use.
    Metang @ Eviolite
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 132 Def / 16 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch

    evs let you dodge the 2hko from archeop's earthquake, ohko mild 0 hp magmortar with eq, with the remainder in spdef to handle jynx a little better. also its in c- so its about as good as stuff thats already being asked to get revamped, like rotom-fridge.
sorry bolts x_x
Click to expand...
Yeah it doesn't need an analysis if thats what you meant, leave that up to PU
Agree with Haunter, SubSplit is pretty damn underrated and its best set atm
Simisage I very much disagree with, NP Simisage is a fucking monster and is not outclassed by Lilligant at all since it gets up to +2 in one turn then nukes shit with Leaf Storm (Can OHKO Yama / Mag after rocks)
Agree with metang, seems pretty anti meta atm
 
Yanma - removed the analysis, thanks for catching that.

I personally don't have any experience using or seeing SubSplit Haunter and I haven't heard much of it so I'll hold off on it for now.

NP Simisage is not outclassed by Lilligant at all, its greater Speed is pretty big as well as the fact that NP simply boosts faster than Quiver Dance, that being said, I'm totally cool with it getting an analysis.

Don't completely agree with that EV spread on Metang, but yes, it should get an analysis.

A few other things I did which I discussed with the QC team:

Scyther - removed the Brick Break slash on CB, Quick Attack is so much better almost all the time.

Gourgeist-XL - made Colbur Berry the first slash and Leftovers the second slash, and changed the EV spread to 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD since without Leftovers it has a much harder time avoiding the 2HKOs the 60 SpD spread is meant to do. Left the mixed defensive spread mentioned in set details.

Kangaskhan - added in set details that Jolly outspeeds Timid Vivillon, one of the more useful reasons to use Jolly on Kangaskhan.
 
For Rock Polish Torterra, I'd suggest deslashing Adamant nature entirely. The power difference between that and Jolly isn't that much:

252 Atk Life Orb Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP/240+ Def Leftovers Mesprit: 160 - 188 (44 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Life Orb Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP/240+ Def Leftovers Mesprit: 175 - 207 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers

Even with Adamant, Mesprit still avoids the 2HKO most of the time. And a Jolly nature lets you outrun Scarf Sawk, Scarf Rotom-A and Scarf Mesprit, which in most matches are the fastest Pokémon you'll see. You could mention Adamant in the set comments along with a spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe (to outrun Swellow after RP), but overall Jolly is a much better option.
 
Last edited:
On the misdreavus analysis, the checks and counters section is messed up.

bolts edit: fixed, thx for catching that
 
Last edited:
i'd like to see Iron Tail get a bigger mention on Tauros (which is currently absolutely nothing). 2HKOing Rhydon is great already, but it also becomes your best move versus megadino, and actually stops a lot of the niche checks to Tauros as well. I'd at least like to see it mentioned in the moves section, personally i run it over fire blast most of the time
 
moves mention is fine imo, but definitely not anything higher (doesn't always 2hko max hp rhydon tho iirc). if work up isn't already a moves mention i'd add it there as it allows tauros to reliably beat bulky shit like musharna and audino that otherwise trouble it.
 
Alrighty, discussed a bunch of small changes to stuff on site with the QC team so I'll give a rundown of what I've updated.

Aurorus: Moved Rock Polish to OO, while it may have a fair amount of setup opportunities on paper it really doesn't get many chances to set up in practice and realistically its is almost always better off just firing off attacks (get at me gp).

Carracosta: Slashed Ice Beam after Waterfall on the physical Shell Smash set, deslashed Focus Blast on the special set. Ice Beam was already in moves but we decided that hitting Torterra and Gourgeist formes was good enough to make it slash worthy.

Claydol: Slashed Timid nature before Modest, outpacing stuff like Adamant Sawk and Hitmonchan is pretty important in this meta. Removed Toxic and Stealth Rock from moves, added Signal Beam.

Mesprit: Moved physically defensive to the 2nd set, deslashed Leftovers and made Colbur Berry the only item, and added Energy Ball and Signal Beam as moves mentions.

Skuntank: Deslashed Sludge Bomb, not having Dark Pulse really sucks as it means you can't deal significant damage to Garbodor and Psychics, and its not like Sludge Bomb is doing that much to Mega Audino and Lilligant. Slashed Expert Belt after Life Orb, the extra longevity is nice and its also handy to not get Life Orb stalled by CM Musharna.

Tauros: Added Work Up and Iron Tail to moves.

Vileplume: Slashed HP Ground after HP Fire, hitting Skuntank and Garbodor is pretty useful and its worthy of a slash.
 
Small announcement -

To all current writers: please add mentions of the new drops [Steelix, Sceptile, Pinsir, Altaria, Camerupt] to your in progress analyses wherever you feel it is appropriate.

To all badgeholders: if you're willing to spend the time, it would be greatly appreciated if you could also add mentions of the new drops throughout the dex pages via CMS submissions wherever you feel they would be best fit. If you have any questions about the CMS feel free to ask me.

Thank you :toast:
 
Last edited:
"Jynx faces competition both as a Psychic-type with Mesprit, which boasts a useful defensive typing, decent bulk, and a unique support movepool including Stealth Rock and Healing Wish, and as an Ice-type with Aurorus, which boasts far superior Special Attack and access to Freeze-Dry, allowing it to wallbreak more effectively and eliminate Water-types. "

Jynx's Special Attack is 115, while Aurorus' is 99...
 
Can we change Gogogat's on-site nature from Adamant to Careful? I have found 0 reason to use Adamant over Careful, since the extra bulk lets it set up easier, can tank stuff like Samurott's Ice Beam better, and in general just makes Gogoat's life easier. Adamant, on the other hand, seems to offer no relevant benefits.
 
umm I have been seeing a lot of SubToxic Articuno recently and then I realized that the only onsite NU analysis is for offensive (which isn't that good any ways IMO) so I think it should be added since it is just overall effective. also if this does get approved can I reserve it here?

Hootie edit: No
 
SlaySlenderDragon XD said:
umm I have been seeing a lot of SubToxic Articuno recently and then I realized that the only onsite NU analysis is for offensive (which isn't that good any ways IMO) so I think it should be added since it is just overall effective. also if this does get approved can I reserve it here?

Hootie edit: No
Click to expand...
For clarification, I discussed this with the QC team and nobody thought it deserved to be a set added.
And no, you do not reserve analyses here, thats what the C&C index is for.
 
Shedinja's analysis mentions Granbull.
(I can't really be bothered to check all the analyses for instances of long-gone Pokemon such as Granbull)

TDP edit: ty, removed it, in the future use this thread please

as a note of my own, a badgeholder who reads this should probably remove xatu from this section here
Passive Damage: Sandstorm, Hail, and Leech Seed all deal damage to Shedinja and prevent it from even being able to switch in. Pokemon that carry Rocky Helmet such as Garbodor and Xatu all discourage Shedinja from attacking; however, Shedinja can still spread burns.
Click to expand...
because imo it makes little sense that RH Xatu would discourage shedinja from attacking but would not deter it from using WoW...
it should be replaced with something else though and not axed outright because that section gets really sparse otherwise, and i don't trust myself to fix that properly so yeah
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Garbodor: The Defensive set mentions Liepard as a particularly good partner for its ability to Pursuit trap Xatu. Liepard almost never runs Pursuit and Xatu can do pretty good damage with U-Turn, so this mention should be changed to Skuntank imo.

Piloswine: 36 Speed EVs should be standard on the tank set since this allows Piloswine to outspeed Gourgeist-XL and hit it with Icicle Crash for 40-50% damage before it gets Burned, possibly KOing, with minimal impact on Piloswine's bulk. 180 Speed EVs could be mentioned for outspeeding standard Lanturn, but the Lanturn spread should probably change as well since max speed Adamant Rhydon is no longer as viable/common.

Rhydon: Dancing Dino set shouldn't have Adamant as a slash as Sceptile just ruins the set otherwise.
 
Last edited:
pursuit liepard is cute for balanace teams that want pursuit support but have garbodor considering skunk+garb is bad :(

honestly id like to see yama get a revamp (i constantly bitch about this in the qc group) considering band is bad and ur never gonna use guts av realistically + dual priority is bad on teams where u dont have tspikes

also i wanna see toxic slashed w icicle crash on piloswine cause it lets you not be total fodder to audino, rotom, and pelipper :3c
 
Also, the Rotom-F analysis should be updated to include mentions of Abomasnow in team options, since this is likely to be the main Snow Warning mon from now on (or at least as important as Aurorus). The overview might also need rewording if Hail's viability increases significantly over the next few weeks. I don't think the sets need changing, however.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top