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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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You clearly don't play NU at all if you think base 90-100 are common. They are quite rare.


Banette is outclassed when it comes to support. I would rather use Gardevoir.

Also you said CB, which isn't support and is bad. Raichu can actually survive a CB Shadow Sneak.

Your kidding me. You just told me that Canerupt is OHKO by grass knot. Why the hell would I HP Ice?!?


Do you even play NU normally. All of this seems like massive Theorymoning.

Edit: Also redo calcs assuming modest.
 
Yes, all of the time.
If you don't run hp ice, almost every single grass type in the tier (12) (9 wall you)

zangoose, typhlosion, ninetails, linoone and entei are all very common, while the other 90-100 speed pokes are seen fairly often.
 
gary the gengar said:
Yes, all of the time.
If you don't run hp ice, almost every single grass type in the tier (12) (9 wall you)

zangoose, typhlosion, ninetails, linoone and entei are all very common, while the other 90-100 speed pokes are seen fairly often.
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Raichu can run Grass knot and HP ice.

Common=/=plentiful.
Most of the NU tier is slow.

You forgot about the rest of the tier.

Why only rip on Raichu? Much of what you say is applicable to Manetric (its got poor SpD and many of those threats are special)

and even moreso Manetric.

The pokemon you mentioned [save Typhlosion who is often scarfed and some ninetails]

Don't run + speed anyways.
 
Gary, do you even play NU? I have never seen you once on the server and you obviously don't know what your talking about. Most of the tier is slow, thus Raichu is an ace card since it can outspeed most of the metagame.
 
Lord Liam said:
Gary, do you even play NU? I have never seen you once on the server and you obviously don't know what your talking about. Most of the tier is slow, thus Raichu is an ace card since it can outspeed most of the metagame.
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Most of the tier is slow but those "most ofs" aren't used. Nobody is going to be sending out Ariados unless he's an Ariados fan.
 
well, you were originally talking about sub NP raichu.

here are modest calcs:

Bastiodon: 80.6% - 94.8%
Camerupt: 76.2% - 89.7%
Gardevoir: 77.1% - 90.9%
Grumpig: 72.5% - 85.7%
Hypno: 62.6% - 73.8%
Keckleon (lol): 71.3% - 84.3%
Lickilicki: 71.3% - 84.3%
Magneton: 85.8% - 101.1%
Muk: 63.8% - 75.4%
Probopass: 60.2% - 71.3%
Regigigas: 63.9% - 75.2%
Regice: 46.4% - 54.7%

Okay, so maybe 2 extra kos? It isn't worth it IMO.
Most of those sets don't run may SpDef, some don't even run any.

I'm not only ripping on raichu, and yes, manetric does get countered by *many* of those threats. I'm just saying that raichu isn't the amazing pokemon that you say it is. Just because its your favorite, dosen't mean its amazing.

Yes, I played NU before my shoddy broke (look in the sub forum) and play constantly over wifi, against top NU players, that play on the server.

EDIT: If you don't believe me, look here: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Project_NU/index.php?showforum=7 and post a thread about raichu.

EDIT 2: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Project_NU/index.php?showtopic=126&st=0 Raichu isn't even listed as a threat.
It has less than 1% usage for a reason you know.
 
Cool, 3 of those pokemon are actually used, 2 of them are 2HKOed and one is OHKOed after Rocks. Those are real good counters!
 
Proboscidea said:
Most of the tier is slow but those "most ofs" aren't used. Nobody is going to be sending out Ariados unless he's an Ariados fan.
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True, but a good amount of NU is slower than Raichu common and note. Many of those *counters* are outsped. You can fish with T-bolt and deal with them or Nasty plot to see what you get.

You can scratch off Magneton and Manetric, as 2+ Modest T-bolt OHKOes. [Manetric can use overheat... Which is terrible on him]


Kecleon/Lickilicki/Grumpig/Gardevoir aren't counters. None of them can KO Raichu.

Edit: In fact none of them are true counters. They lack the ability to OHKO Raichu. [Camerupt is OHKO by GK]



Edit: So what if Raichu isn't used? He will be when NU stabalizes. People always find new threats.

Torterra is case and point

Edit 2: Moltres was once NU...
 
*facepalm*

All of those calcs are at +2. Try finding something that raichu can set up on.

Try looking at a real sweeper, in SD pinsir (or zangoose), both of whom can actually get a SD in.

Lickilicki can ko with EQ (return hurts too) garde psychic hurts, and grumpig (as well as garde) can set up light screen.

Manetric outspeeds, and overheat isn't terrible, its great! On a specs set, being able to severely dent regice, and ohko electic pokemon, is great.

EDIT: Munchlax can counter pretty well, haunter outspeeds and ohkos (looking at NFE's)
 
Yeah i have to say i agree that raichu is way overated. While he is often overlooked, and by no means is he terrible he is just VERY hard to set up and the sweep can be easily ended by practically any scarfer or pokemon that is faster such as tauros, floatzel, espeon, jumpluff (can encore nastyplot), manectric and quick feet ursarang. Charizard, typhlosion and miltank can also force a speed tie.

However i wont contest the fact that its a great stall breaker. While setting up would be undoubtably dificult, i dont see too many walls other than regice standing up to the onslaught.
 
gary the gengar said:
*facepalm*

All of those calcs are at +2. Try finding something that raichu can set up on.

Try looking at a real sweeper, in SD pinsir (or zangoose), both of whom can actually get a SD in.

Lickilicki can ko with EQ (return hurts too) garde psychic hurts, and grumpig (as well as garde) can set up light screen.

Manetric outspeeds, and overheat isn't terrible, its great! On a specs set, being able to severely dent regice, and ohko electic pokemon, is great.

EDIT: Munchlax can counter pretty well, haunter outspeeds and ohkos (looking at NFE's)
Click to expand...

Being an Electric type, Raichu can force switches to set up.

EQ on defensive Lickilcky? Terrible.

Hurts=/=KO. They are killing themselves to damage Raichu.
Thats not a counter. Hurts is to vague. Gardy's support set and Grumpig in general are too weak KO Raichu without EV investment.

Your arguments are summed up picking and choosing the most conveniant situation. Grumpig with LS? {LS doesn't stop Raichu from 2HKOing grumpig}

Raichu has the speed over both pokemon. Maybe He isn't better, but on par for sure.

Again!!! How does Munchlax counter?!? By running EQ?

Stop giving your counters silly moves to beat Raichu.

HAUNTER DOESN'T COUNTER. Raichu cann survive everything bar explosion.


Garybstop being hard headed and bias and actually USE Raichu.
 
EQ is common on defensive munchlax. 67.9% - 80.2% from haunter is a lot, just 1 attack and SR is a OHKO.

If hurts =/= koes, raichu only OHKOS 1-3 pokes from my list, and only after SR!

On par with pinsir and zangoose? Don't make me laugh.
Why don't you actually go and play NU.
 
Sceats said:
Yeah i have to say i agree that raichu is way overated. While he is often overlooked, and by no means is he terrible he is just VERY hard to set up and the sweep can be easily ended by practically any scarfer or pokemon that is faster such as tauros, floatzel, espeon, jumpluff (can encore nastyplot), manectric and quick feet ursarang. Charizard, typhlosion and miltank can also force a speed tie.

However i wont contest the fact that its a great stall breaker. While setting up would be undoubtably dificult, i dont see too many walls other than regice standing up to the onslaught.
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By who? Im the one who brought it up.

Scarfers=Can be used to counter anything. Good luck sweeping with Pinsir when using Choice Scarf Typhlosion.

Miltank doesnt run max speed so thats moot. Quick feet Ursaring also counters Espeon, Magmortar... pretty much any SpAttacker. Hell most of your cons can be applied to Magmortar too. Guess he's overated too.

He can easily set up by forcing switches.

I'm not saying Raichu is the best sweeper, but he's a great one.
 
PK Gaming said:
Being an Electric type, Raichu can force switches to set up.

EQ on defensive Lickilcky? Terrible.

Hurts=/=KO. They are killing themselves to damage Raichu.
Thats not a counter. Hurts is to vague. Gardy's support set and Grumpig in general are too weak KO Raichu without EV investment.

Your arguments are summed up picking and choosing the most conveniant situation. Grumpig with LS? {LS doesn't stop Raichu from 2HKOing grumpig}

Raichu has the speed over both pokemon. Maybe He isn't better, but on par for sure.

Again!!! How does Munchlax counter?!? By running EQ?

Stop giving your counters silly moves to beat Raichu.

HAUNTER DOESN'T COUNTER. Raichu cann survive everything bar explosion.


Garybstop being hard headed and bias and actually USE Raichu.
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Even if the Pokemon can't beat Raichu, they're still going to hurt it and send something out to beat Raichu. Raichu isn't the almost unstoppable Pokemon in NU that you think it is. Raichu is a frail Pokemon so a lot of things can beat it so if one Pokemon falls to it, another will come out to beat it. Jumpluff can come out, use SleepPowder, and if the 75% accuracy doesn't fail, it can use SwordsDance and SeedBomb Raichu and fight the rest of your team with SeedBomb and AerialAce. With those stats and moves, Jumpluff isn't impossible to take down just like Raichu. If you send out something and Jumpluff takes it down, it doesn't mean you can't beat it with what you have left.
 
PK stop flaming him. I always run earthquake on my lickilicky and i assume, that since munchlax is mostly used to curse, that it too would frequently run earthquake. The chance of rhydon, relicanth or magneton setting up with impunity is a good incentive to not mono with return.

EDIT: Wtf man? raichu NEEDS that nasty plot to not be a waste of space. Magmortar hits hard off the bat and can switch if needed. Also espeon has base 110 speed, while quick feet ursarang has 105.

And who mentioned pinsir?
 
gary the gengar said:
EQ is common on defensive munchlax. 67.9% - 80.2% from haunter is a lot, just 1 attack and SR is a OHKO.

If hurts =/= koes, raichu only OHKOS 1-3 pokes from my list, and only after SR!

On par with pinsir and zangoose? Don't make me laugh.
Why don't you actually go and play NU.
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You waste pokemon. Sacrfice one to cripple one.
Don't make ME laugh. You clearly rarely play NU and your theorymoning since you've never used Raichu yourself.

Your list consists of rarely used pokemon and not a single can reliably OHKO.
 
PK Gaming said:
You waste pokemon. Sacrfice one to cripple one.
Don't make ME laugh. You clearly rarely play NU and your theorymoning since you've never used Raichu yourself.

Your list consists of rarely used pokemon and not a single can reliably OHKO.
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I would do that. Going back to Jumpluff, Memento ruins whatever Pokemon you send out and it'd be a perfect time for Linoone to BellyDrum. You make it seem like it's so hard to OHKO frail Raichu. Masquerain has frail defenses too but it lasts longer than Raichu but it's still capable of being OHKOed by non-Rock attacks.
 
Sceats said:
PK stop flaming him. I always run earthquake on my lickilicky and i assume, that since munchlax is mostly used to curse, that it too would frequently run earthquake. The chance of rhydon, relicanth or manectric setting up with impunity is a good incentive to not mono with return.
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I'm not flaming. If Lickilicky/Munchlax run EQ thats fine. Neither OHKO without offensive investment, and neither can wall without defensive investment.


How does Manetric set up? You mean Raichu right?
 
Proboscidea said:
I would do that. Going back to Jumpluff, Memento ruins whatever Pokemon you send out and it'd be a perfect time for Linoone to BellyDrum.
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BD=/=Nasty plot. I would switch out when using Raichu. Not with Linoone.

I would also sweep with NP when the coast is clear.Quick feet Ursa maxes out at 105? Fail.


Magmortar has power but can be revenge kiled just the same and is slower tthann Raichu.
 
PK Gaming said:
BD=/=Nasty plot. I would switch out when using Raichu. Not with Linoone.
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I'm talking about Jumpluff and Linoone on the same team. Jumpluff can use Memento and ruin whatever sweeper the other team has. I'd then send Linoone to BellyDrum. The other Pokemon won't be able to take out Linoone and would probably switch. The point of that is that I'm willing to sacrifice a Pokemon.

@above: he gives it the appearance of being unstoppable by saying that all these things can't OHKO it and he's not saying "you're wrong but this could OHKO Raichu" so it's like saying nothing can take it down in 1 hit.
 
PK Gaming said:
BD=/=Nasty plot. I would switch out when using Raichu. Not with Linoone.

I would also sweep with NP when the coast is clear.Quick feet Ursa maxes out at 105? Fail.


Magmortar has power but can be revenge kiled just the same and is slower tthann Raichu.
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Well, it can switch out, then come back in and hurt stuff again, instead of becoming death fodder, and it is much bulkier.
 
Proboscidea said:
I'm talking about Jumpluff and Linoone on the same team. Jumpluff can use Memento and ruin whatever sweeper the other team has. I'd then send Linoone to BellyDrum. The other Pokemon won't be able to take out Linoone and would probably switch. The point of that is that I'm willing to sacrifice a Pokemon.
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Nifty tricky!

Ignore gengar, its clear that he is just trolling because of Raichu being my favorite pokemon.
 
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