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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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I was looking for potential wall-breakers, and one Pokemon I noticed that gets almost no attention is Shiftry. Seriously, anything that gets both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot and can viably run both is inherently awesome. The set that I would most be interested in is a mixed set of sorts, something along the lines of Leaf Storm, Dark Pulse, and any two of Hidden Power Ground / Sucker Punch / Explosion. Unfortunately, he has Skuntank problems, but it can be worked around, because Skuntank's Life Orb max attack Sucker Punch only does 34-41% to Shiftry. Without Poison Jab or Fire Blast, Skuntank's going to have to explode to OHKO Shiftry.

As for the Electric-types that are currently being discussed, the offensive electric-type I like to use is Sub Ampharos, basically straight from the analysis. Plays like a NU Sub Machamp - slow, bulky, and extremely dangerous behind a Substitute. While it can't clean up late-game like Manectric can, it's capable of causing a ton of damage earlier in the game, and can actually tank a hit. I sometimes run Toxic over Focus Blast, mainly to screw with HP-dependant counters like Gastrodon and Cradily, but Focus Blast is usually more helpful to hit electric-types, particularly Magneton.
 
You better start using.

This thing can sweep. Dunno why it's not so used.

And because of it's nice typing and decent defenses, getting more than one DD is "easy" enough.
And there's only Meganium (no one uses Bellossom i guess) that can take it's attacks.

Resuming: Whiscash is nice.
 
Well, just play wise with Whiscash.
And never EVER try any other set other than the DD set. Even CB is underwhelming (and better done by Quagsire... who isn't the better CB user).
 
Jolly is pretty necessary, imo. Getting outsped by Scarfape after you DD sucks. But how does Charizard lure Grass types. O_o

@PK: Blahblahblah Quagisre. Talked about that. Fyi there are more Grass types out there than there are Ground/Waters. (4) Blahblahblah Sandslash +1 HP Ice KOs. (3) Blahblahblah Charizard there are many other Pokemon, Charizard is just the best one to set up on. (2)

Raichu needs a sub, because it dies without one, and needs that help to set up. (4)

You can't Nasty Plot on something weakened, like Hitmonchan at 15% and -1 Defs. Why would I switch out my Hitmonchan, if its not going to be doing anything else, and risk taking an Attack. I'd just sac it now, prevent you from getting a sub up if you have it, and revenge you. So I guess you can NP in its face. Tell how taking a Close Combat works out for you.

Numbers in the parentheses are how many times I'm repeating myself. And Mobile is no excuse to argue badly. Stick to Raichu by all means. I don't care about your record. Just shut the fuck up about it.


Oh, and New StatsAre here. I thought I'd post a summary for what is gonna happen to NU

Possibly Losing:
| 51 | Miltank | 5392 | 3.91 |
| 52 | Slowking | 5368 | 3.89 |
| 54 | Charizard | 4613 | 3.34 |
| 55 | Hippopotas | 4302 | 3.12 |

Eek.

Possibly Gaining:
| 56 | Qwilfish | 3936 | 2.85 |
| 60 | Nidoqueen | 3716 | 2.69 |
| 62 | Drifblim | 3434 | 2.49 |

So discuss?
 
@PK: Blahblahblah Quagisre. Talked about that. Fyi there are more Grass types out there than there are Ground/Waters. (4) Blahblahblah Sandslash +1 HP Ice KOs. (3) Blahblahblah Charizard there are many other Pokemon, Charizard is just the best one to set up on. (2)

Raichu needs a sub, because it dies without one, and needs that help to set up. (4)

You can't Nasty Plot on something weakened, like Hitmonchan at 15% and -1 Defs. Why would I switch out my Hitmonchan, if its not going to be doing anything else, and risk taking an Attack. I'd just sac it now, prevent you from getting a sub up if you have it, and revenge you. So I guess you can NP in its face. Tell how taking a Close Combat works out for you.

Numbers in the parentheses are how many times I'm repeating myself. And Mobile is no excuse to argue badly. Stick to Raichu by all means. I don't care about your record. Just shut the fuck up about it.
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Whatever.
Point 1, I need solid proof of that. I've seen tons of more more Sandslash/Quagsire's than I have seen Grass types in general. Doesn't matter because we should move on.

Frailty can applied to Manetric as well.

Good for Manectric for netting those adventages by the way. Killing off weakened pokemon for a potential boost is nice, but you don't adress the fact that you might miss and die.



You can't Nasty Plot on something weakened, like Hitmonchan at 15% and -1 Defs. Why would I switch out my Hitmonchan, if its not going to be doing anything else, and risk taking an Attack. I'd just sac it now, prevent you from getting a sub up if you have it, and revenge you. So I guess you can NP in its face. Tell how taking a Close Combat works out for you.
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Well yeah, those are the advantages of using Charge beam as opposed to a regular stat boosting move.
At least (when opting for Encore) you can use a Sandslash/whatever setting up SR and Nasty plot on the switch. Don't care if you knock it.



Just shut the fuck up about it.
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Show some damn respect. All of your happy faces don't masquerade your true self. Over cocky and pretentious. I don't give a crap about your broken record either? SubCharge? Give me a break. To me, it's nothing. I'd much rather use a choice specs set or something not bad. Again this is entirely my opinion.

Call me a Raichu fanboy/lover/whatever, but at give the decency of showing some damn respect.








Edit:
Possibly Losing:
| 51 | Miltank | 5392 | 3.91 |: Hurray
| 52 | Slowking | 5368 | 3.89 |: Double Hurray. We get to use other special walls.
| 54 | Charizard | 4613 | 3.34 |: There goes one of the most powerful sweepers in the whole tier. Don't wanna see this go. )
| 55 | Hippopotas | 4302 | 3.12 |: There goes Sandstorm period.

Eek.

Possibly Gaining:
| 56 | Qwilfish | 3936 | 2.85 |:Another rain abuser. Neat.
| 60 | Nidoqueen | 3716 | 2.69 |: Meh, she doesn't really impress.
| 62 | Drifblim | 3434 | 2.49 : W00T.
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I don't really respect people who talk about the same stuff over and over again, force me to repeat points that I've made, and ignore my others, and then continues to bleed Raichu fanboyism. I love Articuno. I'm running around telling people to use it on every single one of their teams, comparing every single Pokemon to it or bashing Metagross, because I think Articuno uses Agility better. My best argument is not "Whatever. SubCharge? Give me a break. To me, it's nothing."

I don't care about Sandslash. +1 HP Ice OHKOs +1 Flamer 2HKOs if I have a sub. That may not be full proof, but Sandslash is definitely not a counter. (4)

Water/Grounds usages: 634. Grass Usages: 1721. And I stopped counting at Shiftry. Solid enough?

The anecdote was there to refute your "Nasty Plot is just as good of an option" point.
 
Leman said:
I don't really respect people who talk about the same stuff over and over again, force me to repeat points that I've made, and ignore my others, and then continues to bleed Raichu fanboyism. I love Articuno. I'm running around telling people to use it on every single one of their teams, comparing every single Pokemon to it or bashing Metagross, because I think Articuno uses Agility better. My best argument is not "Whatever. SubCharge? Give me a break. To me, it's nothing."
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Yeah, i'll admit it I went to far on the original Ampharos comment but you went too far. It isn't my best argument, I've always thought of Subcharge as a terrible set. You can't really change someone's opinion on that. I don't even think that Manetric is inferior to Raichu. Heck it's better overall. No I don't even hate said pokemon (I happen to like) I'm simply arguing that the Subcharge set is pretty lousy and inferior to Raichu's NP set.

Gee I like Articuno too!

I don't care about Sandslash. +1 HP Ice OHKOs +1 Flamer 2HKOs if I have a sub. That may not be full proof, but Sandslash is definitely not a counter.
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Good lord, you act like you have the boost 100% of the time. Sandslash can be counted as a counter if Manetric hasn't boosted up.
Conditions of a boost:
-Hitting the opponent
-70% of chance of a boost
-actually hit

If you have a sub?!? You told me that you lead with Charge beam? You require a decent amount of preperation to fully counter Sandslash.

If you were to sub or charge beam as Sandslash switched in, Manetric would lose if it lacked HP Ice. Raichu on the other hand can actually do both of those things (sub and nasty plot) and still beat Sandslash. Sure I've said this a million times, but eh.

Water/Grounds usages: 634. Grass Usages: 1721. And I stopped counting at Shiftry. Solid enough?
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Ah nice catch. Why did I even mention that? Still, the fact that they are far more common (4 and 20 respectively) makes it an important point.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70150


And why are we even arguing? Seriously, a better subcharger would be Ampharos who can actually take a hit and dish them out at an even higher rate. Speed doesn't matter when running specific EV's allow you outspeed everything you need to outspeed.
 
PK Gaming said:
Yeah, i'll admit it I went to far on the original Ampharos comment but you went too far. It isn't my best argument, I've always thought of Subcharge as a terrible set. You can't really change someone's opinion on that.
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Use it.

Good lord, you act like you have the boost 100% of the time. Sandslash can be counted as a counter if Manetric hasn't boosted up.
Conditions of a boost:
-Hitting the opponent
-70% of chance of a boost
-actually hit

If you have a sub?!? You told me that you lead with Charge beam? You require a decent amount of support to fully counter Sandslash.
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You said hit twice.

Odds are that it boosts. And its different per each situation. IE vs something like, idk, Slowking, and they know I still have Charizard, most likely they switch. (Why would they give up their best Charizard counter? Makes no sense.) Then I sub. They have weakened Dodrio I go with Charge Beam. Its a decent check? How about that? Specs is the better set but SubCharge > NP Raichu, and subcharge is a viable set, no matter how much you say otherwise. Try using it. And if you want to reply to this, PM me. I dislike how we've spammed up this thread. Instead, we should talk about those metagame changes or something here. :)
 
It's a promise.

Thank you for resolving the situation.
I'll give subcharge Manectric a go. At the same time, you should really try out SubNP and EncoreNP Raichu.
 
Hey-I found a suicide lead that works decent. He can make a nice surprise, and is a good lead for trick room which i will be testing. Just...don't use an item. WHY?



@ Leftovers/Salac Berry/Focus Sash

Impish --- 252hp, 252 def, 4 att

Meteor Mash
Explosion
Bullet Punch
Stealth Rock

Okay, Metang is surprisingly bulky...base 100 def means primape (scarf, which most leads are) will never 2hko with close combat, and leftovers garuntee you will never be 2hkoed by earthquake. Focus Sash if you are afraid of scarfphlosion, but trick room teams always carry slowking. Salac berry can garuntee an explosion, but if the opponet sees salac they will guess what your up to. However, most don't suspect explosion. If you don't use trick room, meteor mash can be used. Also usefull in UU as an anti lead, since you can ko froslass with mm+bp, then survive any attack with focus sash and explode.

P.S. - Highlight for item. yeah, and im a bitch who wanted to post metang@

Dman, he doesn't learn trick room
 
Uberiffic said:
Hey-I found a suicide lead that works decent. He can make a nice surprise, and is a good lead for trick room which i will be testing. Just...don't use an item. WHY?



@ Leftovers/Salac Berry/Focus Sash

Impish --- 252hp, 252 def, 4 att

Meteor Mash
Explosion
Bullet Punch
Stealth Rock

Okay, Metang is surprisingly bulky...base 100 def means primape (scarf, which most leads are) will never 2hko with close combat, and leftovers garuntee you will never be 2hkoed by earthquake. Focus Sash if you are afraid of scarfphlosion, but trick room teams always carry slowking. Salac berry can garuntee an explosion, but if the opponet sees salac they will guess what your up to. However, most don't suspect explosion. If you don't use trick room, meteor mash can be used. Also usefull in UU as an anti lead, since you can ko froslass with mm+bp, then survive any attack with focus sash and explode.

P.S. - Highlight for item. yeah, and im a bitch who wanted to post metang@

Dman, he doesn't learn trick room
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LOL, it's that metang from the trou du cul topic.
 
PK Gaming, you missed Nidoking on the possibly gining list.

Anyway, I REALLY hope we lose Miltank and Slowking. There goes Milking, and both are on my list as suspects anyway... although, if Slowking goes, Medicham and Magmortar [Two other suspects] will be even worse.
 
Magmortar is one of the most broken NU Pokemon.
Also Espeon is a burden if you don't outspeed it.
I'll WOOT if we get Drifblim because it sounds like a neat Pokemon. I dunno how it will affect the metagame though. Might make a nice wall since it's pretty bulky HP Wise and with Unburden might also make it quite a sweeper. Not a BD Linoone but still something to watch out.
I'll be happy if Miltank goes. It's incredibly broken in NU terms.
 
Back when NU started, Driftblim was in the teir, it then moved to UU, and looks like it'll be back.

Driftblim is used in many roles. Baton Pass teams are almost never without it, and it can be a decent wall. However, Calm Mind Drifblim is also a masty attacker, as is SubPetaya Driftblim, because of Unburden.

Driftblim is very god in NU terms, and, if Miltank and Slowking stay, we could have serious issues with a core of Driftblim/Slowking/Miltank. Driftblim handles things like Primeape which can take on 'Milking' with ease.

Driftblim's one achilles heel is Skuntank, but, that's true for the almost the whole teir [And that being the case, makes Skuntank broken]
 
Drifblim can't keep switching into Primeape's U-Turns with Stealth Rock on the field.

I'm having nightmares about how I'm going to deal with ChestoRest Drifblim + Espeon. Driffy KOs Skuntank, while it can set up on Slowking.
 
Ice-eyes said:
Drifblim can't keep switching into Primeape's U-Turns with Stealth Rock on the field.
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5% - 6.1%

Scarfape U-turn vs CMrest Drifblim. I think the emphasis should be placed on Stealth Rock rather than the U-turn - but it's hardly difficult to spin away rocks in NU anyway.
 
One question:
Will Espeon get banned from NU completely? It's one of the most broken Pokemon. Raikou of NU.
Outspeeds most of the Metagame.
Hits hard. Can use a SubCM Set like Raikou.
I AM Forced to use something faster than it, which is my Tauros which ties with it at worst.
It just 6-0 me with ease. It was a checkmate anyway.
Don't tell me to use Skuntank, I don't like it and I use Pokemon I like.
Well.. We can't do much until Smogon recognizes NU as a proper tier, not just rubbish that doesn't do any good.
 
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