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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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SpecsMortar is incredibly easy to force out - I'd much rather run LO.
Focus Blast is nice for bulky Normal-types, like Lickilicky and Porygon2, as well as the occasional Probopass/Bastiodon. It's also necessary to stop Cradily walling you in Sand. It's not fantastic, but there really isn't anything you'd rather run in that spot, so there's no reason not to use it.
Focus Blast is nice for bulky Normal-types, like Lickilicky and Porygon2, as well as the occasional Probopass/Bastiodon. It's also necessary to stop Cradily walling you in Sand. It's not fantastic, but there really isn't anything you'd rather run in that spot, so there's no reason not to use it.
Too bad it has terrible accuracy... and missing could make your opppnent switch to a ghost and set up something, or those bug/flying that resist it.
How are they gonig to set up? Big deal, you still have a STAB Fire Blast with a monstrous Special Attack and LO.
You know, Flareon and Scizor have the same base attack, Fire Fang is VERY CLOSE to Tech Bullet Punch in Base power, and Fire is a lot better of a type to have than Steel. So it's not all that weak.
That being said, I was going for a physical sweeper with Wish and something not typically used (But still potent). Flareon with FF/Wish/Superpower/Protect or Return or something (Maybe even overheat, I don't know) fits the bill quite well. If only it got U-Turn... Baton pass unfortunately isn't as good.
That being said, I was going for a physical sweeper with Wish and something not typically used (But still potent). Flareon with FF/Wish/Superpower/Protect or Return or something (Maybe even overheat, I don't know) fits the bill quite well. If only it got U-Turn... Baton pass unfortunately isn't as good.
Fire Fang is Base 65, which makes it actually stronger than Tech Bullet Punch.
(Tech Bullet Punch is 40 -> 60 -> 90, while Fire Fang is 65 -> 97)
It just lacks the Priority.
Flareon thrives here more than OU because of the lack of emphasis on Physical, so Speed isn't AS necessary to survive.
At least, that's my theory..
(Tech Bullet Punch is 40 -> 60 -> 90, while Fire Fang is 65 -> 97)
It just lacks the Priority.
Flareon thrives here more than OU because of the lack of emphasis on Physical, so Speed isn't AS necessary to survive.
At least, that's my theory..
...Thunderbolt?
The last move should be either Earthquake or Focus Blast. It depends on if you are scared of Cradily or Flash Fire Pokemon more. Miltank is gone, so it would probably be better to just smack around normal types with Fire Blast, and Earthquake always KOs SDef Flareon with Stealth Rocks and Spikes, even with the -Atk nature. Ninetales takes lest damage than Flareon does. I'm finding Earthquake to be the more attractive option right now, since I can easily use Hitmonchan or Medicham or Primeape to keep Cradily at bay.
That's more like it. Magmortar actually (lol) has a good attack score (95) and can actually hurt things. EQ should be standard now. (Unlike that weakass Typhlosion's EQ)
OK, we need something to discuss. Do you think a (physical)fire type wall is viable, and if so, who would it be. My guess would be either torkoal or magcargo. xdevo describe torkoal to great effect already, but I find that magcargo can be quite useful as a...I'm not sure what to call it. Its basically a pokemon that requires team support but supports its support. Basically, people see magcargo, they try to hit it with water and ground attacks, right, well, they send in Gligar, you send in Drifblim. They send in Mantine, you send in quagsire for free health. Magcargo requires certain pokemon to take repeated beatings, but we have multiple pokemon that are immune to them and can abuse his obvious (and nearly only) weaknesses to the fullest. Now we just need a flying-typed water absorber, or a levitating Water/grass type...sorry, my mind wandered. Anyway, thoughts? Less (extreme) weaknesses and rapid spin or baited switchs and recover? and Explosion. C'mon, up and at 'em!
EDIT:Furthermore, when I've finished playtesting, do you think Magcargo deserves a full thread on Project NU or not?
EDIT:Furthermore, when I've finished playtesting, do you think Magcargo deserves a full thread on Project NU or not?
Mantine DOES get Water Absorb. Only problem with that core is the SR weakness.
Doesn't a water hit restore exactly what SR took?
It does, actually. Mantine may not be a bad choice as a Wall (Though it totally should've received Roost).
Unless you are an idiot and run HP Water.
>_>
<_<
like me
And yeah, I was compairing the POWER of BP to FF. Not the priority or what have you. Flareon would love a new STAB (I'm partial to Blaze kick. None of that nasty recoil, and if Nidoran can Double kick...), but Fire fang isn't that shabby itself.
It shouldn't. It's simply far to weak on Typhlosion and causes it to be hard walled by Walrein.
(assuming the standard moveset is Eruption/Fire Blast/EQ/HP whatever)
Magmortar has T-bolt for Walrein, and thus can focus on using Earthquake to beat Flareon. (Thanks a lot Leman, I think you just pushed Magmortar over the edge again because now even FLAREON can't even beat it)
Well, I've gotta agree with Leman. Fire types definetely got worse (cept COUGH Ninetails) so they aren't that bad, but Magmortar's running EQ IS bad. Because I can easily wall them with Flareon without it... (Let's hope that nobody listen's in...)
I figure camerupt sounds good but ironically it's stat show that's it's frail. (godda do some calcs)
I figure camerupt sounds good but ironically it's stat show that's it's frail. (godda do some calcs)
Well, if there's people who uses bulky Qwilfish... (ok, it's to set up something, not to counter, but my point is that Qwilfish is even frailer).
I remember in some warstory Camerupt surviving a LO SE Hidden Power from Raikou on Rain (since it's on Rain and it hits for SE, i presume it's water)... survived with 1% but survived lol. Solid Rock helps it.
And Camerupt has such good defensive typing IMO...
I remember in some warstory Camerupt surviving a LO SE Hidden Power from Raikou on Rain (since it's on Rain and it hits for SE, i presume it's water)... survived with 1% but survived lol. Solid Rock helps it.
And Camerupt has such good defensive typing IMO...
Grass in the last slot. Typhlosion's still walled pretty hard by Walrein with Focus Blast. Walrein has no healing and is hazard weak, so its forced to switch in and out a lot. With SR, and maybe Spikes, just using Typhlosion to fire off a Fire attack and lure it in is weakening it a lot. Flareon can wish off the damage, and Ninetales rapes you if they get in. So I think the coverage to smack them on the switch is a lot more beneficial then Walrein. And I kinda like using Walrein as Spikes bait for Qwilfish. :D
Grumpig still exists.
Camerupt (252HP/252SDef Calm) takes: 46.5% - 55.2% from EQ. I can't tell if it factors in Solid Rock or not though, but its still enough to make it a check, and not a counter. Better than Flareon, since its immediately threatening an Earth Power rape, so it can switch into Fire Blasts for a while. No reliable healing makes me sad.
Taking Magmortar's attacks is kinda impossible, so you should really stop looking for so many defensive checks for it. Magmortar's kinda slow, and with SR Weak + LO kinda wears it down better. Reminds me of Salamence in OU acctually. Sharpedo, Floatzel, and Ninetales to me, seem like pretty good checks. They all have their issues, in that they can't switch in to half hits moveset, but once they do, they proceed to rape stuff.
In other news, Rain Dance rapes stuff. Use it. I havent found the best Rain Supporter yet though. Using Trode+4Sweepers+Magneton now, but Magneton is too slow.
Haha, Focus Blast did lik 44% when you used on my Walrein. Good point on the free spikes. (You almost got me on that one)
I think Smogon takes Solid Rock in account. (damn you Magmortar!!!)
Damn it Leman, pay attention Salamence is like on the verge of being banned!!! :(
But yeah I totally agree. It can be easily revenged kill/checked. My favorite part is when Magmortar burns them with flame body. :D
and
I remember Silent Verse tearing NU up with Rain Dance Chu. (It's classic set from GSC) and it's a pretty damn good supporter.
Gotta deal with that fucking Quagsire though.
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