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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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Since last tiering change?
Yes, it was quite recent. It got promoted in July. It was very popular when it was allowed in NU though.
well, why not...
Low Kick, Block, Headbutt, Head Smash, Whirlpool
Head Smash is a huge addition to Aggrons movepool. CBer and probably Rock Polisher ( along with general Aggron usage ) will increase abit imo. I think Aggron will be UU soon.
Headbutt, Switcheroo
This wont change much, but due to Arbok getting Switcheroo, he got more possibilities and I think Choice items will be far more common on him.
String Shot, Low Kick, Block, Headbutt, Curse
I am not sure if this might be even useful, but Curse on Armaldo seems decent, since he already has low speed.. but I'd prefer Swords Dance anyday.
Pain Split, Role Play, Magic Coat, Headbutt
Not much to add, Pain Split gives Banette some kind of recovery ( but its not bulky =s ); Magic Coat is a nice addition for a Lead to throw some status back.
Worry Seed, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
Well, Magic Coat, again, is a nice addition and it could work on a lead set or sth like that =s, Nasty Plot makes Cacturne more diverse since it has equal attacking stats ( 115 ), so it got more unpredictable as it can easily go for a special set too.
Pain Split, String Shot, Worry Seed, Block, Headbutt, Curse
Got nice moves this time (noone will use Pain Split when it has Recover ). After switching in, it could Block something that cant hurt him too much, Recover the taken damage and Curse a few times ( 6x ). It got a Bonus since it cant be roared, etc away.
Dragon Dance, Whirlpool
Yeah, one of the Pkm talked about the most.. because it got DD.. with Adamant, its Speed gets to 313, with Jolly, to 343. It outspeeds some stuff after a DD, but I dont think it'll be THAT threatening to jump to OU. UU is possible though.
Drifblim: Pain Split, Tailwind, Role Play, Weather Ball
Pain Split got Drifblim some sort of recovery besides Rest. Weather Ball may work, dunno, on a weather-based (sun imo ) team.
Golduck: Worry Seed, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Encore, Whirlpool
hooray.. his usage might not rise much, but at least he got some additions.. besides Magic Coat, Golduck got Encore, which might help him set up some CMs easier.. ( sth with Magic Coat and Encore could also be used as a lead I think )
Role Play, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
yay, Jynx got Nasty Plot, it'll sure boost her usage abit ( in UU, so it'll go up ). She got much more power now. I havent done some calcs yet, but some 2KOs might turn to OHKOs, too.
Role Play, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Recover
Kecleon got Recover, this might help it stalling stuff easier, making some damage undone etc..
Agility, Whirlpool
A way so Kingler gets past its average speed.. I dont think it will do much though, but Kingler outspeeding some stuff is actually good, so it can probably KO some faster Pokemon that before they KO you back.
Headbutt, Switcheroo
With Switcheroo, Manectric can not only fill the last moveslot on the Choice Sets, it can also switch it to its counters, like Regice
Role Play, Magic Coat, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
Nasty Plot enables Mr. Mime to pass some +2 SpA boosts..
String Shot, Water Spout, Whirlpool
With a Scarf attached, Octillery can do the same as Wailord, just with more power.
I'll do the rest later since its late here.
Low Kick, Block, Headbutt, Head Smash, Whirlpool
Head Smash is a huge addition to Aggrons movepool. CBer and probably Rock Polisher ( along with general Aggron usage ) will increase abit imo. I think Aggron will be UU soon.
Headbutt, Switcheroo
This wont change much, but due to Arbok getting Switcheroo, he got more possibilities and I think Choice items will be far more common on him.
String Shot, Low Kick, Block, Headbutt, Curse
I am not sure if this might be even useful, but Curse on Armaldo seems decent, since he already has low speed.. but I'd prefer Swords Dance anyday.
Pain Split, Role Play, Magic Coat, Headbutt
Not much to add, Pain Split gives Banette some kind of recovery ( but its not bulky =s ); Magic Coat is a nice addition for a Lead to throw some status back.
Worry Seed, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
Well, Magic Coat, again, is a nice addition and it could work on a lead set or sth like that =s, Nasty Plot makes Cacturne more diverse since it has equal attacking stats ( 115 ), so it got more unpredictable as it can easily go for a special set too.
Pain Split, String Shot, Worry Seed, Block, Headbutt, Curse
Got nice moves this time (noone will use Pain Split when it has Recover ). After switching in, it could Block something that cant hurt him too much, Recover the taken damage and Curse a few times ( 6x ). It got a Bonus since it cant be roared, etc away.
Dragon Dance, Whirlpool
Yeah, one of the Pkm talked about the most.. because it got DD.. with Adamant, its Speed gets to 313, with Jolly, to 343. It outspeeds some stuff after a DD, but I dont think it'll be THAT threatening to jump to OU. UU is possible though.
Drifblim: Pain Split, Tailwind, Role Play, Weather Ball
Pain Split got Drifblim some sort of recovery besides Rest. Weather Ball may work, dunno, on a weather-based (sun imo ) team.
Golduck: Worry Seed, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Encore, Whirlpool
hooray.. his usage might not rise much, but at least he got some additions.. besides Magic Coat, Golduck got Encore, which might help him set up some CMs easier.. ( sth with Magic Coat and Encore could also be used as a lead I think )
Role Play, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
yay, Jynx got Nasty Plot, it'll sure boost her usage abit ( in UU, so it'll go up ). She got much more power now. I havent done some calcs yet, but some 2KOs might turn to OHKOs, too.
Role Play, Magic Coat, Low Kick, Headbutt, Recover
Kecleon got Recover, this might help it stalling stuff easier, making some damage undone etc..
Agility, Whirlpool
A way so Kingler gets past its average speed.. I dont think it will do much though, but Kingler outspeeding some stuff is actually good, so it can probably KO some faster Pokemon that before they KO you back.
Headbutt, Switcheroo
With Switcheroo, Manectric can not only fill the last moveslot on the Choice Sets, it can also switch it to its counters, like Regice
Role Play, Magic Coat, Headbutt, Nasty Plot
Nasty Plot enables Mr. Mime to pass some +2 SpA boosts..
String Shot, Water Spout, Whirlpool
With a Scarf attached, Octillery can do the same as Wailord, just with more power.
I'll do the rest later since its late here.
Curse is good on Armaldo for lategame cleaning because it is immune to critical hits and has over 400 special defense under Sandstorm. It is not nearly as bulky as Regirock, but has fewer weaknesses, a more useful ability and higher Attack to make up for it somewhat. In NU however it doesn't have to worry about being outclassed for this role; only the possibility of Hippopotas moving up to UU sometime in the future lol.
The increase in Encore users may put a bit of a dampener on it however.
EDIT: you might also want to highlight Low Kick, since it can have some decent use on Armaldo over Earthquake, the Curse set in particular. It stops Magneton from walling it with Magnet Rise, and hits Aggron slightly harder to give a couple of examples. Depends on the metagame, really.
IMO curse cradily in sand has the potential to be quite the force if your opponent has no primape or medicham. a possible set would be
Cradily @ leftovers/lum berry
adament/careful
probably a 252 hp/attack spread
rock slide
seedbomb
recover
curse
Another set that i see potential in is crawdaunt working as a wall breaker with crunch, crabhammer, ice beam and dragon dance as the really the only solid counter to this is cloyster. Im also excited for switcheroo manectric and of course RP headsmash aggron.
Cradily @ leftovers/lum berry
adament/careful
probably a 252 hp/attack spread
rock slide
seedbomb
recover
curse
Another set that i see potential in is crawdaunt working as a wall breaker with crunch, crabhammer, ice beam and dragon dance as the really the only solid counter to this is cloyster. Im also excited for switcheroo manectric and of course RP headsmash aggron.
Um, Poliwrath much? The other Bulky Waters like Relicanth, Walrein and Lapras can also deal with it to some extent, but Poliwrath is the most watertight.
As for Cradily, if you were feeling really ballsy you could even run both Cradily and Armaldo on the same Sandstorm team running almost identical sets, although Cradily would probably want to distinguish itself with Recover. I find it funny that in Cradily and Armaldo, you have two Rock types that share only one common weakness (Steel), or should I say uncommon. Cradily is ideal for tanking against powerful Water and Electric types, whilst Armaldo can handle Venomoth and Ice types, as well as tank better against the Fighting types you mentioned. One can take a Trick or Switcheroo and leave the other free to set up without this fear later in the match.
Cradily and Armaldo each have a very useful ability for slow boosting tank sets, and both got the perfect move in Curse to compliment this role. So I would say that in addition to Hail, Sandstorm teams also gained a huge amount of stock with the HGSS additions, particularly in NU.
Kingler with Agility will be an important new threat in NU. After one Agility, Adamant max Speed Kingler reaches 498 Speed, allowing it to outrun some of the most used Scarfers in NU. It beats Scarf Entei, Primeape, and Medicham and can outrun all Swift Swim sweepers except Qwilfish in the rain. Couple that with Base 130 Attack and no weaknesses to priority and you have a potent sweeper.
First post regarding HG SS new moves: General view.
Jynx worries me a bit. sure, she can sleep but Mismagius does her job better most of the time I think.
Unless Mismagius goes to BL (AKA OU, useless tier is useless) I don't think she's going to be UU, but also she's going to be so powerful for NU.
That guy who review'd the new HG SS moves skip'd Low kick. Sure, in NU metagame it wont be THAT uselfull but in OU it may work in some pokemon, specially Armaldo.
Agility Dunsparce may also go to UU. But that's just me anyways. (Dont talk bullshit like "Dusclops stops dunsparce" first because he can bite, second because parasect stops crocune and still NU)
Btw. Lol @ scarf water spout Octillery.
NP Turne seems like a threat, but the lack of priority special move hurts him, making it inferior to the physical countepart I guess.
Super Fang Sandslash now split him apart from the likes of Hippowdon or Donphan (Weird, because Hippowdon got HUGE fangs while Sandslash doesn't) Defensive threat.
Wigglytuff as cleric also seems like something NU stall needed. It its bulkier than you may tought.
Regarding clerics. Cleric Glaceon seems viable also as an option for the specs/scarf one: A cleric that hits hard and got nice defenses also (Bad defensive type sadly, specially with those broken Stealth rock). Too bad we can't say the same to his brother flareon.
Victreebell obviously got a huge improvement with the weather ball.
I've tested Skill link rock Blast Cloyster and it rocks. (Literally lol) Finally he can make use of that avarage attack and new unique trait meaning he can use explosion better.
Too bad other pokemon with unique new traits (Like Sableye or Delcatty) can't say the same. Sableye's only use for Stall trait it's to combo with Payback and perhaps with Pain split after taking a hit. Spite seems viable in theory but he lacks the necessary bulk that others like Arbok has. (I use Spite bulky arbok, that's why I say Arbok's bulky) It ccan use Gravity and got some innacurate moves, but nothing special (Dynamicpunch, Mega kick, Will o wisp lol)
Delcatty... I dont know what's Gamefreak thinking; thinking Mud bomb it's a good adition to Delcatty's movepool. Normalize only use it's to paralize Ground pokemon.
Stockpile Dewgong seems like stallrain in Rain (lol) but rain doesn't last forever since there's not even lv 1 kyogre alowed, so it needs to set up by itself meaning: Rain Dance, Rest+Hydratation, Stockpile and just one offensive move (probably surf) easily walled but hard to kill.
Talking about bulky waters, let's not forget Quagsire with 2 awesome traits unlike it's cousin gastrodon or the rejected of the group Whiscash
And let's not forget Farfetch'd's leaf blade!111one
Jynx worries me a bit. sure, she can sleep but Mismagius does her job better most of the time I think.
Unless Mismagius goes to BL (AKA OU, useless tier is useless) I don't think she's going to be UU, but also she's going to be so powerful for NU.
That guy who review'd the new HG SS moves skip'd Low kick. Sure, in NU metagame it wont be THAT uselfull but in OU it may work in some pokemon, specially Armaldo.
Agility Dunsparce may also go to UU. But that's just me anyways. (Dont talk bullshit like "Dusclops stops dunsparce" first because he can bite, second because parasect stops crocune and still NU)
Btw. Lol @ scarf water spout Octillery.
NP Turne seems like a threat, but the lack of priority special move hurts him, making it inferior to the physical countepart I guess.
Super Fang Sandslash now split him apart from the likes of Hippowdon or Donphan (Weird, because Hippowdon got HUGE fangs while Sandslash doesn't) Defensive threat.
Wigglytuff as cleric also seems like something NU stall needed. It its bulkier than you may tought.
Regarding clerics. Cleric Glaceon seems viable also as an option for the specs/scarf one: A cleric that hits hard and got nice defenses also (Bad defensive type sadly, specially with those broken Stealth rock). Too bad we can't say the same to his brother flareon.
Victreebell obviously got a huge improvement with the weather ball.
I've tested Skill link rock Blast Cloyster and it rocks. (Literally lol) Finally he can make use of that avarage attack and new unique trait meaning he can use explosion better.
Too bad other pokemon with unique new traits (Like Sableye or Delcatty) can't say the same. Sableye's only use for Stall trait it's to combo with Payback and perhaps with Pain split after taking a hit. Spite seems viable in theory but he lacks the necessary bulk that others like Arbok has. (I use Spite bulky arbok, that's why I say Arbok's bulky) It ccan use Gravity and got some innacurate moves, but nothing special (Dynamicpunch, Mega kick, Will o wisp lol)
Delcatty... I dont know what's Gamefreak thinking; thinking Mud bomb it's a good adition to Delcatty's movepool. Normalize only use it's to paralize Ground pokemon.
Stockpile Dewgong seems like stallrain in Rain (lol) but rain doesn't last forever since there's not even lv 1 kyogre alowed, so it needs to set up by itself meaning: Rain Dance, Rest+Hydratation, Stockpile and just one offensive move (probably surf) easily walled but hard to kill.
Talking about bulky waters, let's not forget Quagsire with 2 awesome traits unlike it's cousin gastrodon or the rejected of the group Whiscash
And let's not forget Farfetch'd's leaf blade!111one
You're kidding, right? Dunsparce has an attack stat of 70, and a speed stat of 45. You are still better off(although he is still shit, albeit annoying) using a Thunder Wave or Glare based set. Dusclops would destroy Dunsparce, with its high defenses, low HP, Pain Split, and Dunsparce's high HP(100 base).
This post shows a huge lack of understanding of NU...
1) Mismagius is not NU. Misdreavus is, but it's hard to say that outclasses Jynx.
2) Who wants to use Armaldo in OU?
3) Agility Dunsparce? Seriously? Did you calculate what Agility Dunsparce can outrun (not much) and how many speed EVs you need to do it? And about Dusclops: Adamant Dunsparce only does 25% to Impish 0 EVs Dusclops with Bite. I'd rather use Water Spout Scarf Octillery
4) Right on I think with comments on NP Cacturne.
5) I tried out Wigglytuff...it's not that bulky, really. I think LO Manectric Thunderbolt does about 40% with a special defensive EV spread. It would be nice if it were slightly bulkier, since it gets so many good support moves: Wish, Stealth Rock, Perish Song, some status, and now Heal Bell.
6) Sandslash needs to spin, and Super Fang doesn't really help that.
7) Dewgong and Farfetch'd still suck, and Glaceon will never be a good Cleric (most teams don't need Clerics anyways). And I think Whiscash may soon be a monster =D Seriously man, thing gets Spark.
As I said before though, stall in NU is dead. You basically need to run Dusclops/Sandslash/Cloyster, and then HOPE you can find the Pokemon you need to act as special walls, p.hazers, etc. There's no way to cover all the threats. This situation is made way worse with the Super Fang Sharpedos and stuff running out there.
Finally, Kecleon. I did some testing for Skill Swap Kecleon. The most interesting result I found was that the Pokemon's type change persists through that Pokemon's switching. If this is working as intended, it might be a good way to break certain walls like Dusclops. I also used it against various special attackers, especially Ninetales (after the Skill Swap you get Flash Fire). I also used it to change a Vileplume to Dark so it could be seeded later, and maybe you could even give someone an SR weakness and lose Spikes/Tspikes immunity given by Flying type. Of course, that Pokemon must stay in 1 turn after the Skill Swap to tank Kecleon's attack, as I'm pretty sure the effect of the Skill Swap itself goes away upon switch.
The Agility dunsparce it's just to copy scarfjirachi in some way. T wave + Flinch will be always better in both regarding hax, but speed flinch works aswell.
Im talking about Jynx (Nu pokemon) going to UU while it's outclassed.
Ok, I don't like you.
What's the problem of using armaldo in OU? To me seems viable.
How much attack EVs uses that Dunsparce? I remember dunsparces doing like 30 or 35% to dusclops
40% from Manectric it's bulky to me at least. Manectric it's a beast you know.
Hows supposed Super fang to harm Sandslash's spin abilities? and most important, what helps Sandslash to spin other than having the attack on the moveset? Aren't you saying that the ONLY thing Sandslash can do it's spin, right?
Dewgong may be interesting if people tend to use ScarfApe to counter it, with one stockpile he oculd survive CC and with the defense drop and some s atk EVs I suppose it could kill ape. In other words: You don't live in a cage were only the pokemon that has been tested work.
DD whiscash doesnt work as far I tested: Doesnt got enough power neither enough bulk but I test all my pokemon on Standard, not on NU.
Super fang sharpedo seems annoying and surprising (specially to his counters) but sadly it's very, very frail. If it dont manage to KO after the super fang it's going to die.
Im talking about Jynx (Nu pokemon) going to UU while it's outclassed.
Ok, I don't like you.
What's the problem of using armaldo in OU? To me seems viable.
3) Agility Dunsparce? Seriously? Did you calculate what Agility Dunsparce can outrun (not much) and how many speed EVs you need to do it? And about Dusclops: Adamant Dunsparce only does 25% to Impish 0 EVs Dusclops with Bite. I'd rather use Water Spout Scarf Octillery
How much attack EVs uses that Dunsparce? I remember dunsparces doing like 30 or 35% to dusclops
40% from Manectric it's bulky to me at least. Manectric it's a beast you know.
Hows supposed Super fang to harm Sandslash's spin abilities? and most important, what helps Sandslash to spin other than having the attack on the moveset? Aren't you saying that the ONLY thing Sandslash can do it's spin, right?
Dewgong may be interesting if people tend to use ScarfApe to counter it, with one stockpile he oculd survive CC and with the defense drop and some s atk EVs I suppose it could kill ape. In other words: You don't live in a cage were only the pokemon that has been tested work.
DD whiscash doesnt work as far I tested: Doesnt got enough power neither enough bulk but I test all my pokemon on Standard, not on NU.
Super fang sharpedo seems annoying and surprising (specially to his counters) but sadly it's very, very frail. If it dont manage to KO after the super fang it's going to die.
Mazaki, it's great that you test all that in standard, but since this is the NU thread, shouldn't you be more focused on how much of an impact the tutors will have on the NU metagame?
I'm curious how much Hailstall will pop up now in NU, since people still use snover from time to time, and super fang stallrein will be pretty damn solid taking off half the hp of a switch in, not to mention Glaceons blizzard flying around, it would be interesting.
I'm curious how much Hailstall will pop up now in NU, since people still use snover from time to time, and super fang stallrein will be pretty damn solid taking off half the hp of a switch in, not to mention Glaceons blizzard flying around, it would be interesting.
Sandslash is just a spinner because it doesn't do anything else that well. And Super Fang hurts it because then it's even more screwed by the inevitable Ghost switch-in. Rapid Spin/Super Fang/EQ (presumably) and then you have to pick between Swords Dance (which you need to harm Dusclops) and a move to harm things like Drifblim.
Oh, and Fangren, the NU server doesn't exist anymore. Please use the CAP server for unrated NU battles. They'll soon implement an NU ladder.
Oh, and Fangren, the NU server doesn't exist anymore. Please use the CAP server for unrated NU battles. They'll soon implement an NU ladder.
recover-rock slide-earthquake-curse
block sucks, you'll just trap a counter.
Also, I don't think aggron will go to UU. He'll be a top-tier NU, but he won't go to UU. Why? Rhyperior is coming down. AKA, completely counter aggron and then get a free cb stone edge or earthquake to hit things hard.
block sucks, you'll just trap a counter.
Also, I don't think aggron will go to UU. He'll be a top-tier NU, but he won't go to UU. Why? Rhyperior is coming down. AKA, completely counter aggron and then get a free cb stone edge or earthquake to hit things hard.
Uh..... Rhyperior countering Aggron? Are you serious?
Adamant CB Aggron using Head Smash on max HP/ 4 def Rhyperior (525 Atk vs 297 Def & 434 HP (150 Base Power)): 427 - 504 (98.39% - 116.13%)
I don't even want to do the calcs for Aqua Tail.......
Actually +1 Head Smash on min / min Rhyperior is 38.44% - 45.16%, Head Smash is a Rock-type move.
Erazor, Rhyperior resists Head Smash. But your calculation is way off regardless.
However, Aggron will be using Aqua Tail as the primary coverage move, so Rhyperior is not much of a counter anyway.
More of a reason to use aqua tail, then.
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