CounterSash Raichu also soundly beats you.
Still, it's not a TERRIBLE lead, it looks pretty neat. Don't even bother taking on Medicham. You haven't got a chance to surviving T-punch. Hell I think Zen Headbutt KO's as well. (Just a guess)
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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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CounterSash Raichu also soundly beats you.
Still, it's not a TERRIBLE lead, it looks pretty neat. Don't even bother taking on Medicham. You haven't got a chance to surviving T-punch. Hell I think Zen Headbutt KO's as well. (Just a guess)
Kingler is nice. It can take physical hits well. Lack of recovery is a slight problem, but it is able to sweep if it gets that Agility up.
And what happens if ZButt flinches Pelipper? You're forcing me to use it as a lead now, because it's one of my Hoenn favorites.
And what happens if ZButt flinches Pelipper? You're forcing me to use it as a lead now, because it's one of my Hoenn favorites.
If Zard goes, good riddance.
If King goes, we've just lost a great special wall. Eh, Regice has the third best wall potential of all nonubers (Tied with Snorlax, losing to... Blissey and Chansey), but still.
If King goes, we've just lost a great special wall. Eh, Regice has the third best wall potential of all nonubers (Tied with Snorlax, losing to... Blissey and Chansey), but still.
What about Skuntank?
I didn't saw this post lol
Primeape does not KO Pelipper with Stone Edge. Typhlosion does damage, but do you really want to lose Typhlosion just to cripple a simple Pelipper?
And it does survive any kind of Fake Out pokes (unless it's Medicham with ThunderPunch). In UU it survives Ambipom Fake Out + Return, so...
In fact, it's only decent stat is exactly the defense.
And no max speed. It's just a waste, Pelipper is just slow. Just run the necessary to outspeed Relicanth (who's slower) and the rest goes to HP.
That makes Pelipper survives many attacks. Including Stone Edge.
If you had ever faced a cacturne in the sand, hiding behind a sub with a sd and sucker punch than you would not have been ignorant enough to say that.
Also, am i the only one that feels charizard isnt packing enough power? I always seem to be able to handle its attacks with ease if its not the specs or bd set, and then you have to remember the 4x weak to sr...i just never really felt threatened by it.
That would be good...if magmortar ever used eq or cross chop. Or if espeon ever switched into gligar. I admit cb uturn and eq seems cool, however cs is very outclassed due to gligars lack of power.
I have discovered a couple things, and decided to share them:
First is that DDShelgon is a pretty good Pokemon. Thanks to its good typing and decnet defenses, Shelgon has an Easy time getting off a DD, and beating the crap out of stuff with Outrages. I think the reason it really shines is because of the general lack of steals besides Magneton. Fire Blast can deal with that though.
Second thing is that DD Charizard is a lot easier to use than SD. SD is way to easily revenged and doesn't pack immediate power of LORoost so it basically gives away a free switch to something faster (Scarfape or something). DD Charizard can outspeed that junk after a turn of set up and KO. And it easily beats Slowking with ThunderPunch since people are always expecting Special.
Lastly, Dodrio rapes shit. CB 2HKOs every physical wall in NU this side of Miltank. I'm not really sure about it though, since I've never acctually faced one. Roost with Life Orb is pretty decent too, since he can force switches a lot, so it has time to Roost off Brave Bird Recoil. I though he got Double Kick somewhere, but its not on the list. Like Shelgon it benefits from the general lack of Steels and Rocks. I really have no idea why its not used a lot.
tl;dr: Use DDShelgon, DDZard and Dodrio.
First is that DDShelgon is a pretty good Pokemon. Thanks to its good typing and decnet defenses, Shelgon has an Easy time getting off a DD, and beating the crap out of stuff with Outrages. I think the reason it really shines is because of the general lack of steals besides Magneton. Fire Blast can deal with that though.
Second thing is that DD Charizard is a lot easier to use than SD. SD is way to easily revenged and doesn't pack immediate power of LORoost so it basically gives away a free switch to something faster (Scarfape or something). DD Charizard can outspeed that junk after a turn of set up and KO. And it easily beats Slowking with ThunderPunch since people are always expecting Special.
Lastly, Dodrio rapes shit. CB 2HKOs every physical wall in NU this side of Miltank. I'm not really sure about it though, since I've never acctually faced one. Roost with Life Orb is pretty decent too, since he can force switches a lot, so it has time to Roost off Brave Bird Recoil. I though he got Double Kick somewhere, but its not on the list. Like Shelgon it benefits from the general lack of Steels and Rocks. I really have no idea why its not used a lot.
tl;dr: Use DDShelgon, DDZard and Dodrio.
Nearly true story about that Dodrio. People tend to forget about a few of those rock types though. I have had a lot of fun testing out different Dodrio sets (love the thing) but even CB sets won't 2HKO Golem or Rhydon, which are both prevalent, (usually Onix also but he looks phallic so nobody gives him any love) short of crits or odd natured/EVd sets with its STAB attacks.
Here's the UU statistics. I spent a good 20 minutes clipping it to be just UU.
Pelipper Lead
Pelipper doesn't really bring anything to your team by being deployed in the lead slot. Also, losing to LeadCham is a Bad Thing because you basically hold up a white flag saying, 'Please, ravage my team and make holes for your sweepers'. However, STAB Surf combined with good Defense gives it a niche in a metagame where almost every lead is physical and many are weak to Water.
Dodrio
Dodrio takes advantage of the scarcity of Rock-types (Golem/Rhydon are nowhere, Relicanth doesn't have enough power and is commonly used as a lead anyway and Cradily doesn't resist Flying).
I've been testing Dodrio a little and I've found it to be extremely potent. It's basically, '2HKO their Normal resist/physical wall with Brave Bird, switch out, clean up with Return late-game'.
It helps a lot if you have a strong core to switch into would-be revenge-killers. Magneton is a fantastic partner, resisting Rock, Ice and Electric while Dodrio can get a rare free switch-in on Ground attacks in return. Maggie also Subs easily on Miltank, which is one of the few pokes that can capably wall Dodrio. Another good poke to pair with it is Scarf Primeape, which easily cleans up once physically bulky pokemon are gone and can threaten Rock- and Steel-types with its powerful Close Combat. Medicham is really useful in the same vein - it can bring in potential revenge-killers to be damaged and blows holes in physical walls to help Primeape and Dodrio.
A bulky Ground-type like Quagsire or Gligar can also help - Dodrio comes in on Grass moves while Quagsire resists Rock and is immune to Electric as well as being able to switch into Skuntank and Scarf Primeape.
There's definitely the potential for a really good team here - if anyone wanted to test it I'd be interested to see the results.
UU Stats:
Regirock dropping down would be ridiculous. By the look of things, though, that's quite unlikely to happen.
Hitmonlee looks reasonably likely to drop, though in April I think its usage has gone up - if it does drop it will be extremely threatening and Fighting HO is going to get a lot better.
Nidoking and Nidoqueen both look almost certain to drop, especially the latter. They will find a much less favourable metagame than the one they left - Espeon is a real threat to both and they are walled by Slowking. With Skuntank usage up, T-Spikes are not as good any more either.
Drifblim is going to change the metagame. A lot. Not much can stop the ChestoRest set once it gets going, SubPetaya is incredibly dangerous and the leadBlim has quite a few good matchups right now.
Pelipper doesn't really bring anything to your team by being deployed in the lead slot. Also, losing to LeadCham is a Bad Thing because you basically hold up a white flag saying, 'Please, ravage my team and make holes for your sweepers'. However, STAB Surf combined with good Defense gives it a niche in a metagame where almost every lead is physical and many are weak to Water.
Dodrio
Dodrio takes advantage of the scarcity of Rock-types (Golem/Rhydon are nowhere, Relicanth doesn't have enough power and is commonly used as a lead anyway and Cradily doesn't resist Flying).
I've been testing Dodrio a little and I've found it to be extremely potent. It's basically, '2HKO their Normal resist/physical wall with Brave Bird, switch out, clean up with Return late-game'.
It helps a lot if you have a strong core to switch into would-be revenge-killers. Magneton is a fantastic partner, resisting Rock, Ice and Electric while Dodrio can get a rare free switch-in on Ground attacks in return. Maggie also Subs easily on Miltank, which is one of the few pokes that can capably wall Dodrio. Another good poke to pair with it is Scarf Primeape, which easily cleans up once physically bulky pokemon are gone and can threaten Rock- and Steel-types with its powerful Close Combat. Medicham is really useful in the same vein - it can bring in potential revenge-killers to be damaged and blows holes in physical walls to help Primeape and Dodrio.
A bulky Ground-type like Quagsire or Gligar can also help - Dodrio comes in on Grass moves while Quagsire resists Rock and is immune to Electric as well as being able to switch into Skuntank and Scarf Primeape.
There's definitely the potential for a really good team here - if anyone wanted to test it I'd be interested to see the results.
UU Stats:
Regirock dropping down would be ridiculous. By the look of things, though, that's quite unlikely to happen.
Hitmonlee looks reasonably likely to drop, though in April I think its usage has gone up - if it does drop it will be extremely threatening and Fighting HO is going to get a lot better.
Nidoking and Nidoqueen both look almost certain to drop, especially the latter. They will find a much less favourable metagame than the one they left - Espeon is a real threat to both and they are walled by Slowking. With Skuntank usage up, T-Spikes are not as good any more either.
Drifblim is going to change the metagame. A lot. Not much can stop the ChestoRest set once it gets going, SubPetaya is incredibly dangerous and the leadBlim has quite a few good matchups right now.
I'll be going to try Dodrio + Magneton, I was already building a new team while those two came up. Sounds good.
I think you overestimate it a bit. Ghost (Expecially Haunter and Drifblim) wall it A LOT, and it's less powerful than Medicham. A lot more bulky (Can't say no to 105 SpD.), but still.
It was NU before IIRC, and it wasn't THAT bad.
EDIT: Peliper is beaten by Persian if they run Thunderbolt.
That's like saying Miltank is beaten by Relicanth if it has Hidden Power Fighting.
Except Relicanth has to go out of it's way to run HP Fighting. Persian can Nasty Plot, and has a decent special attack, and has 1 free moveslot, so it's not like it's THAT HARD to run a move to beat a lead.
How exactly do they wall him when SE OHKO's them both? A better counter would be Dusclops. It's faster than Medicham, can take special hits a lot better, and Close Combat is (weaker) but a lot more reliable than Medicham's High jump kick.
Don't underestimate it, because it's going to shake up NU for sure.
PS: Hitmonlee has base 110 SpD.
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