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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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How about Dodrio as a pure Physical wall breaker:
Dodrio @ Life Orb
Nature: Jolly(Or Adamant I guess for pure wall breaker, but Jolly can also let it revenge some stuff)
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4HP
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Taunt
- Roost
Works similar to Golbat who runs this set but with U-Turn over Return..and the part where Dodrio mauls things much more. But yeah most walls actually can't really do much to Dodrio, so Taunting to stop statis/recovery basically means they get to choose between letting their wall die, or trying to switch a sweeper into a BB/Return.

Of course, CB Dodrio also 2HKO's all walls but Miltank, so you could argue that's a physical wall breaker too..But this one lasts longer obviously, and can take down multiple walls without going suicide(even if killing off the 3rd member of their team in a row with a final BB and then going down with it isn't like the sweetest way to die ever).

I think I'll actually try this set sometime, it looks pretty interesting...probably gives stall a nightmare too
 
Leman said:
I just made that set better. Even then I don't think that it should be used over Dodrio. U-turn doesn't have that much utility if you are using it as a physical wallbreaker. Dodrio does get Baton Pass to us as a psuedo U-turn.
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I posted something almost exactly to that extent. Besides, even if Fearow's Drill Peck hits less hard, it can survive hits even without the bulk because Drill Peck doesn't recoil.
 
I don't see the point of Taunt, if you can just 2HKO the walls. I mean if its only for Miltank, aren't you better off switching in a Special Sweeper/Fighter to abuse. Besides the fact that Dodrio is way to frail to use the LO Roost combo like Charizard or some other stuff. (I've tried it) Hitting things really hard is usually a better way to go.

Speaking of Charizard, I've noticed that the Charizard-Skuntank relationship is really really potent. To the point where I'm not sure that you can call Charizard broken under the Offensive Characteristic, but instead have to look at Skuntank as the broken party. I mean think about it. Skuntank literally removes Spinblockers, Slowking, and faster sweepers hindering Charizards sweep, and that is a massive amount of support. Then there the fact that Skuntank presense on the metagame makes spin blockers a lot less common, since Skuntank walks all over them. Then there are a lot more Earthquakes flying around given Charizard a lot easier of a time switching in. But then Charizard cna just run Dragon Dance, and then walk over everything that's not named Miltank or Quagsire. Still, I think Skuntank is more suspect that Charizard in the relationship. Thoughts?
 
If skuntank was declared broken than about 20 would have to follow. Its priority and psychic slaying abilities are needed too badly.
 
Sceats, you do realise that the things Skuntank is NEEDED to check are also probobly going to go? I mean, Slowking, Espeon, Magmortar.

Before Magmortar dropped, Skuntank use was actually on the decline, then it started to rise again. Then Espeon appeared, and Slowking rose. Then Skuntank rose again.

I'm quite sure that most of NU can be checked perfectly fine without Skuntank. You'd actually need to think about it too, instead of 'Let's slap Skuntank onto the team, it kills basically anything that dosen't resist Dark'

I mean, what are these 'Other Twenty Things?'. Charizard? Last time I checked, Quagsire and Gastrodon worked for him. Gardevoir? Regice stops it well. These are off the top of my head.

In a teir as diverse as NU if we're always looking to the same pokemon, to check any threat, and it WORKS, whatever's doing the checking is evidently broken. Thus, Skuntank is broken.
 
Well when slowking, espeon, magmortar, gardevoir (i was p. sure the cm set beat regice?) and medicham leave the tier then we can talk about kicking out skuntank. However once their gone it will have lost most of its usefulness so...

Also a lefties skuntank only does 46.8% - 55.6% to a 0hp/6def charizard so it checks it at best. Also timid lo 252sp attack charizard does 67.8% - 80% to careful 248 hp/252 sp def gastrodon with hp grass. This may not seem so great, but when you remember it that it cant switch into charizard due to high its health needs to be.

Quagsire is also in the same boat, however it has a chance to be ohko'd when its careful and 252/252. The same charizard using hp grass does 84.3% - 99.5%
 
Skuntank is hardly broken. It's only no.1 because it checks pretty much half the broken Pokemon in the tier. I mean, what Characteristic would it fit?? It certainly wouldn't be Offensive or Defensive. Support is the only thing he comes close to fitting, but the only thing he's removing are Ghosts and Psychics anyway.

On the topic of broken Pokes, I think Cradily should be a Suspect. That thing takes hits like a maniac. In the Sand, it's like a Cresselia of NU. +2 Surf from Slowking did 35%. This is when he can just Curse up and Recover off the damage.
 
I'm building a HO NU team, I am going to use Kingler, I find having both SD/Agility wonderful, but the lack of another moveslot and Crabhammer, the lackluster STAB..


Also, is Espeon broken in NU terms? It's going to be on my HO team, but I do not like using broken Pokemon. I do need a special sweeper for my team. I have another special sweeper, but it takes a more defensive approach.

Cradily can't be a suspect if you just Recover. Venomoth used Toxic (Spikes).
You can use a Stockpile + Sleep sets, which is a better staller.
And I have a SS team and Cradily is one of the stars in there. It's like a non-broken Garchomp, don't let it set up. Taunting Cradily is another option to check it but after 3~ Curses it'll just have fun bombarding you.
(I guess saying it's like a non-broken Garchomp is a fail on my side)
 
Oh wow Skuntank is so overrated when it comes to Espeon. It doesn't even CHECK most Espeon varients and it just has predictable priority that is easy to work around. Check the top tier threats? Give me a break. It's so damn easy on seeing what move it's going to use. I mean switching into Slowking's Twave? Always, it's the same thing. From there it's easy to screw with them, Slack off on the pursuit, surf on the sucker punch, switch out on the explosion. (It's like you are infuriating the stupid skunk into exploding)



It's extremely 1-Dimensional, and I am no longer impressed by him/her/it.

Encore users' are the only way of stopping Cradily in UU, guess that mean's everyone needs to Raichu/Jumpluff in all of their teams :P. Seriously though, I think the fighters can handle it, as even with 1+ It's not going to like taking Medicham's Hi jump kick/ Prime Ape's close combat. Hell if Hitmonlee comes down, than the Choice Band close combat can potentially OHKO.


Also, is Espeon broken in NU terms? It's going to be on my HO team, but I do not like using broken Pokemon. I do need a special sweeper for my team. I have another special sweeper, but it takes a more defensive approach.
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Basically, it doesn't HAVE any counters. Everyone assumes Skuntank, but you can always sub has they (predictably) sucker punch. 1+ HP ground will OHKO. Now your assuming, okay that makes you weak to Murkrow... Just use something bulky that doesn't give a damn about Murkrow.
 
Yes, but watch out if it is locked onto Curse. You just give if a free turn to Curse some moar.
BTW, Featherdance Pidgeot can hurt it once it's in, as FT gives it -2 atk, it'll need to Curse some moar. Give it Toxic and it gets to be a "premier" Cradily counter.
As long as said Cradily doesn't have Rock Slide, and if you catch it early, Pidgeot will be just taking lol damage from it. Give it Roost and it walls it. It worked wonders against a Muk that was stacking Curses. Pidgeot took lol damage from Ice Punch. Muk's immunity to Poison is a problem though, as you can't toxic-stall it.

You can also use Skill Swap and PHaze it away.
 
Sceats said:
The only real check to espeon (that i know of) is sneasel. However to all sets without cm im sure regice would work great.
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Finally. It's actually faster than Espeon and doesn't give shit about mindgames because Pursuit deals like 80% when it stays in. (lol BITE is almost always an OHKO)

It can't really switch into any of it's attacks though due to it's frailty.
 
Curse Cradily will carry rock slide and rest most of the time so toxic isnt really going to work, the best way to beat it is to use a Ground type that can boost its stats and throw up possibly a substitute (Marowak, Rhydon) although you're screwed if it has seed bomb, strong fighting types like Medicham and Primeape, or tricking it with something like Haunter/ Espeon
 
PK Gaming said:
It can't really switch into any of it's attacks though due to it's frailty.
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It can obviously switch in on psychic and calm mind. It can also switch in on a LO hp ground taking 74.9% - 88.4% from a timid max sp attack espeon. However you need to make sure stealth rock isnt down.

Also a max attack, jolly sneasel with a cb does 88.6% - 104.8% (guarenteed ko with sr) to a non fleeing espon with pursuit.
 
Agreed, Sneasel is a good stop to Espeon. However, it's incredibly frail and doesn't have as much utility as maybe one would like - unlike Skuntank, it isn't able to revenge kill effectively, because its Ice Shards and Bites aren't as powerful as Skuntank's Sucker Punch. Also, it is too frail to effectively trap Slowking because it can't take Surf at all well.
 
Don't get me started on Dily, guys. She's mah baby <3
I legitimately use Cradily in OU, and I'm honestly surprised more people don't use it.
With Ttar being #2, you don't even need to sacrifice your own spot to get Sand Stream going.
Yes, there is Scizor and Lucario and shit going around, but after a Curse or 2, they're only doing damage that can be easily Recover'd off.
Speaking of Toxic Spikes, and then Slowking...Cradily would LOVE to switch into Slowking's T-Wave. It's like an immunity to status effects since Cradily doesn't care at all about being Para'd.
I've ran the calculations, and you want to know something awesome?
Manaphy can't switch into Cradily and survive. STAB Rock Slide will 2HKO it after the first two Curses.
Likewise, Cradily can't switch into Manaphy and survive. Ice Beam will 2HKO it after the Tail Glow.
I love Cradily <3
In the NU environment, I wouldwill run Dual STAB over EdgeQuake. The only coverage you lose is...Skuntank? Yeah, like Skuntank is breaking Cradily. Not to mention, Quagsire and Slowking run rampant, and Seed Bomb is a huge "'Sup mah nigga" to them.
 
I like Jynx myself.

The Luna set can give the opponent some headaches (provided Lovely Kiss doesn't miss), while the NP set hits like a real truck.
A good option for a team.
 
shrang said:
Skuntank is hardly broken. It's only no.1 because it checks pretty much half the broken Pokemon in the tier. I mean, what Characteristic would it fit?? It certainly wouldn't be Offensive or Defensive. Support is the only thing he comes close to fitting, but the only thing he's removing are Ghosts and Psychics anyway.
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I didn't say "Skuntank is broken because it checks too much stuff." I said "Skuntank is broken because the support he provides Pokemon like Charizard is too much." I don't really care that it checks a lot of stuff, especially Espeon, since Espeon is going to get the boot before Skuntank will.

@PK: Skuntank always beats Slowking when it runs Crunch, because people expect Pursuit. You should always use that over Taunt, since Taunt only helps to block random Will-o-Wisps from Gardevoir and Dusclops, and Crunch OHKOs most Gardevoir anyways, and 2HKOs Dusclops with the burn. You shouldn't be using Sucker Punch against Espeon off the bat anyways (start with Pursuit), since letting it get a Sub up is way to dangerous.
 
Leman said:
I didn't say "Skuntank is broken because it checks too much stuff." I said "Skuntank is broken because the support he provides Pokemon like Charizard is too much." I don't really care that it checks a lot of stuff, especially Espeon, since Espeon is going to get the boot before Skuntank will.

@PK: Skuntank always beats Slowking when it runs Crunch, because people expect Pursuit. You should always use that over Taunt, since Taunt only helps to block random Will-o-Wisps from Gardevoir and Dusclops, and Crunch OHKOs most Gardevoir anyways, and 2HKOs Dusclops with the burn. You shouldn't be using Sucker Punch against Espeon off the bat anyways (start with Pursuit), since letting it get a Sub up is way to dangerous.
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Meh. If they run Crunch then Slowking switches out. It doesn't matter WHAT you start with. Skuntank cannot beat a substitute Espeon. Assuming Skuntank switches in on the sub, Espeon HP ground as it breaks the sub (via any method) and sub on the predicted second sucker punch. You can always play a mindgame with skuntank but espeon almost always comes out on top, especially if it gets one CM up.

Crunch, Sucker Punch and Pursuit on the same set? Sounds like a terribly one dimentional moveset. Worse still, you are hard walled by Bastiodon and set-up fodder Cradily.

PS: Hey guys, where can we see the NU leaderboard?
 
gary the gengar said:
Haha what happened to no one uses bastiodon?

Crunch/SP/Pursuit/Taunt takes down bastiodon, and can taunt cradily on the curse, and switch to anything else to take the EQ.
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How exactly does it take down Bastiodon? Something with such monstrouse defenses can't be brought down. (Bastiodon will be outdamaging it) and Skuntank without Explosion?!?
 
Bastiodon walls the hell out of Skuntank. For, like, forever.
Ok, not quite.

And Probopass? It got one of the coolest HSSG "upgrades" , still i think no one knows what said move is lol.


Anyway: not much people are running Floatzel, huh?
It's basically THE revenge killer to fire pokes, and the bulky water here can't take it out (BU Crunch!)

And it also happens that it's the second fastest poke (screw you Espeon).
Ok, without Taunt Miltank just comes in and walls it to no end... and damn you Scarf fighting pokes.
 
Skunktank dosen't need explosion, I actually prefer not running it, as it is a waste of a great pokemon.

Bastiodon will use a support option, and loose to the taunt. Then you switch to a miltank or anything without paper thin defenses to set up on it.
 
M BLADE said:
Bastiodon walls the hell out of Skuntank. For, like, forever.
Ok, not quite.

And Probopass? It got one of the coolest HSSG "upgrades" , still i think no one knows what said move is lol.


Anyway: not much people are running Floatzel, huh?
It's basically THE revenge killer to fire pokes, and the bulky water here can't take it out (BU Crunch!)

And it also happens that it's the second fastest poke (screw you Espeon).
Ok, without Taunt Miltank just comes in and walls it to no end... and damn you Scarf fighting pokes.
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Is it Magnet rise? Seriously though Floatzel is a monster of a pokemon. I run the bulk up set on my Floatzel, and when it's coupled with Aqua Jet he can really sweep.
 
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