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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
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Pain Split huh? It's a shame that fighting types are everywhere because Probopass would be pretty neat. Still it's a decent pokemon to use.
I sorta kinda want to disrgard this post after you brought up Bastidon, but the rest of you are talking about Probopass. Have you forgotten that Medicham and Primeape are EVERYWHERE! That sort of applies to Cradily too, but I'll admit that thing is a bitch.
Or, the Skuntank player can not suck and Pursuit when it switches. If the Slowking gets prefect prediction, why can't Skuntank? Skuntank can also witch back in if it loses. Slowking can't.
Besides the fact that this isn't even related to my argument. Skuntank's fairing against a broken Pokemon isn't really relevant to its brokenness. The argument I'm making is that it removes Sloking too easily, and makes spinning too easy.
Or, the Skuntank player can not suck and Pursuit when it switches. If the Slowking gets prefect prediction, why can't Skuntank? Skuntank can also witch back in if it loses. Slowking can't.
If you spam Pursuit the SubEspeon eventually has to hit you with HP Ground, wherafter you just KO it with Pursuit. Nobody is (should be) stupid enough to just let it set up by switching out. That is way too dangerous.
Besides the fact that this isn't even related to my argument. Skuntank's fairing against a broken Pokemon isn't really relevant to its brokenness. The argument I'm making is that it removes Sloking too easily, and makes spinning too easy.
Works. All that matters. Skuntank's a one demnsional Pokemon
Medicham is walled pretty badly by Sabelye. Espeon loses to Sneasel. Magmortar is raped by Grumpig. And they are sweepers. One obscure counter that only shows up after Skuntank has done his job doesn't matter. (I mean, mention Sandslash if you are going to talk about Pokemon Skuntank loses too)
I have to say Sableye is mad fun to play with. Just give it max Special Defense and Will-O-Wisp gibes you a pretty epic staller. Hell, he can even run a Stall Mewtwo-esque set comprising of Will-O-Wisp/Recover/Taunt/Filler (Too bad he doesn't get Light Screen) to really screw over walls. Too bad he's slow to pull that off though, but something like WoW/Recover/Shadow Claw/Seismic Toss with 252 HP/252 SpD Careful nature is good enough.
Whats stopping probo from just switching out? Also you would have to watch out your not switching in on twave which i found was a very easy move to spam due to its very obvious advantages against many common pokemon.
Oops, I meant Shadow Sneak, but yeah, Night Shade is probably better due to Sableye's crappy stats.
What are the most common NU leads?
Straight from the CAP stats for March:
| 1 | Primeape | 319 | 11.68 |
| 2 | Persian | 304 | 11.14 |
| 3 | Medicham | 281 | 10.29 |
| 4 | Typhlosion | 128 | 4.69 |
| 5 | Hippopotas | 118 | 4.32 |
| 6 | Sandslash | 112 | 4.10 |
| 7 | Jumpluff | 96 | 3.52 |
| 8 | Miltank | 90 | 3.30 |
| 9 | Glalie | 85 | 3.11 |
| 10 | Armaldo | 68 | 2.49 |
| 1 | Primeape | 319 | 11.68 |
| 2 | Persian | 304 | 11.14 |
| 3 | Medicham | 281 | 10.29 |
| 4 | Typhlosion | 128 | 4.69 |
| 5 | Hippopotas | 118 | 4.32 |
| 6 | Sandslash | 112 | 4.10 |
| 7 | Jumpluff | 96 | 3.52 |
| 8 | Miltank | 90 | 3.30 |
| 9 | Glalie | 85 | 3.11 |
| 10 | Armaldo | 68 | 2.49 |
Looks like Primape was the most popular and the one I was going with.
By the way, is it okay to have 1 special attacker on my team? I'm going with DDZard instead of Espeon. Or I'll replace Espeon with NPersian. I don't really know.
By the way, is it okay to have 1 special attacker on my team? I'm going with DDZard instead of Espeon. Or I'll replace Espeon with NPersian. I don't really know.
If you want to do that, just go all physical. Have a few fighting types to beat the walls (Miltank and such), a couple of others to cover weaknesses, and you're set!
How about this set?
Urasering @ Flame/Toxic Orb
252 Atk 252 Spe
Jolly nature
Quick Feet ability
-Bulk Up
-Facade
-Rest?
-Earthquake?
Simple, go out on a CBanded Ghost- attack, and then Bulk Up on the switch. Should save you a little, also activating QF. Meaning you'll be faster, +1 on both defenses. You can Bulk Up more and then Rest the damage, making it a good high-risk high-reward tank.
Not sure on the EV spread, it's more for an offensive set. For a defensive set, use 252 HP and max defenses or something. 172 Def / 84 Sp.def perhaps might work with max HP.
Urasering @ Flame/Toxic Orb
252 Atk 252 Spe
Jolly nature
Quick Feet ability
-Bulk Up
-Facade
-Rest?
-Earthquake?
Simple, go out on a CBanded Ghost- attack, and then Bulk Up on the switch. Should save you a little, also activating QF. Meaning you'll be faster, +1 on both defenses. You can Bulk Up more and then Rest the damage, making it a good high-risk high-reward tank.
Not sure on the EV spread, it's more for an offensive set. For a defensive set, use 252 HP and max defenses or something. 172 Def / 84 Sp.def perhaps might work with max HP.
Please. People always switch into Skuntank as Slowking T-waves. from there Slowking can spam Slack off (assuming it doesn't have crunch) in conjunction with Surf to deal with Skuntank. More often than nought, they'll end up exploding due to the lack of damage. Skuntank needs to deal with the paralyzation too. I also love how Skuntank takes an astounding "46% - 54.3%" from Slowking's surf, so simply using Surf could be a decent option. You can potentially finish them off as they attempt to taunt you.
If you spam pursuit I spam HP ground. It''s lose lose.
Meh, I couldn't care less if it's a suspect or not. It doesn't even remove slaking THAT easily, nor does it hard rape Dusclops who will almost always Will-o-wisp on the skuntank switch in.
Predictable as hell too.
How so? Sableye is 2HKO by T-punch, Espeon loses to Sneasel if it's not behind a sub. (HP ground/Signal beam will OHKO assuming entry hazards) Still it's a decent check/counter so I'll give you that.
Magmortar IS actually hard countered by Grumping. (PEOPLE use it more...)
Skuntank is pretty much countered by anything that can take a Sucker punch and KO. Preferably Sandslash is a decent counter. I'd switch into a ghost however because of the explosion.
What about Exeggutor as a Medicham counter?
Ice Punch is easy to avoid (and Scarf Ice Punch won't KO a full health 4/0 Exeggutor... surprising indeed). Every other attack is resisted by Eggy.
Ok, Exeggutor doesn't like Skuntank that much, but it can put it to sleep.
Ok², it hates all those damn fire pokes... and that can't be remedied by Exeggutor alone (unless you use one of my sets: Trick Room/Sleep Powder/Psychic/Leaf Storm).
@PK Gaming: i think he meant Slowking, not Slaking.
And only Banded Adamant Medicham 2HKO Sableye. I think Sableye is a pretty safe counter, even though it sucks for himself.
My Sableye set was Will-o-Wisp/Calm Mind/Recover/Dark Pulse. Even with one CM, it still takes too much damage from special attacks...
Ice Punch is easy to avoid (and Scarf Ice Punch won't KO a full health 4/0 Exeggutor... surprising indeed). Every other attack is resisted by Eggy.
Ok, Exeggutor doesn't like Skuntank that much, but it can put it to sleep.
Ok², it hates all those damn fire pokes... and that can't be remedied by Exeggutor alone (unless you use one of my sets: Trick Room/Sleep Powder/Psychic/Leaf Storm).
@PK Gaming: i think he meant Slowking, not Slaking.
And only Banded Adamant Medicham 2HKO Sableye. I think Sableye is a pretty safe counter, even though it sucks for himself.
My Sableye set was Will-o-Wisp/Calm Mind/Recover/Dark Pulse. Even with one CM, it still takes too much damage from special attacks...
Is there a point for a tier between NU and UU? Just make it UU if it breaks NU or something. BL is a useless tier too, it's only allowed in OU/Ubers, so why not make it OU? Also, why do usage tiers even get BL/Ubers?
We can't just 'make something' UU, because what's in UU is based on usage. BL is useful because they can stop something being used in UU; we can't just say, 'let's make it OU', because it won't have the usage in OU to justify putting it there. BL can help differentiate between those pokes which are banned from UU due to OU usage and those which are banned due to brokenness in UU.
Oh really now? Because I've seen Scizor run three effective sets: Choice Band, Swords Dance and Baton Pass. It's not 1D in the slightest.
He isn't kidding. I just tested it out last weak and I got like 2 Skuntank kills with it. (I should keep a Skuntank kill count)
Of course. You have to have one if the main tiers are based on usage. Otherwise, things like Staraptor would be OU, when no one uses it, and it sucks in OU.
I like how your scenario shows how Skuntank loses without Crunch, when I say that Crunch>Taunt.
If you have Crunch, Skuntank wins. If you Pursuit and they switch, you win. If they use Slack Off, while you Pursuit, you use Crunch next turn and win. Like I said, if Slowking switches, you try again next time.
Wait. That doesn't make sense.
Skutank does 82.4% - 97.8% to Espeon with Pursuit if it stays in. Remember, I'm saying that you never switch directly out of Espeon, since letting it get a Sub up is dangerous. Second this is a Sub+3Attacks set with Leftovers. So the Scenario is:
Espeon uses HP Ground: 58% - 68.7%
Skuntank uses Pursuit: 82.4% - 97.8%
If Espeon has tried to sub in Pursuits face, it dies there (since it will be at 81.25). If it switches it dies there. If it switched into hazards, it probably loses. And even if it just used HP Ground, now you can pick it off with a Sucker Punch, since it can't switch. Explain how Espeon wins here.
Good. Then we can both say that it doesn't hurt my argument. I think I've explained how it beats Slowking (not Slaking :)) up there.
First Will-o-Wisp has 75% acc. (Your Paralysis mattered to you.) Second, the Duslops has to keep in mind that crap like Magmortar is around, and those guys are more than happy to switch into Will-o-Wisp. You can't just indiscriminately spam WoW. Even if it does, Skuntank just smacks it around with Crunches, and eventually, since it lacks reliable healing, Dusclops will lose.
Not quite. Be for you knew that you couldn't attack, or switch. now, you can get raped, if you attack, switch , or don't attack. Makes it a lot harder for the opponents to predict. It's worse than Taunt, since instead of being put into anther prediction war, you just die.
Medicham's LO ThunderPunch: 40.1% - 47.4% Cool 2HKO.
I though I said that hard counters don't really matter to supporters. If you are switching in a counter, that usually means that he's already done his job. Ex: Who cares that Froslass can't touch Regice?
Well played Leman. Well played indeed. I'll back of this one.
I am assuming the Sub CM set not the Sub + 3 attacks because it's a lot more deadly imo. So if Skuntank switches in on a Sub...
Hold on. Those Calcs are WAY off. Espeon using HP Ground deals:
83.9% - 99.2%
almost a clear OHKO with entry hazards. damage.
my job is just to hate on Skuntank.It still deters Skuntank from directly switching in.
No way. If Skuntank switches into a frailer sweeper more often than naught it's going sucker punch (giving you a free switch) Skuntank mindgames are pretty simple really. I
So? Sableye isn't damaging Medicham that badly when all of it's EV's have been alocated for defense. It's not even remotely considered as a counter.
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