Yea my calcs weren't meant to show "MANTINE IS A FANTASTIC ALL-AROUND WALL" but that it doesn't fold over to any moderately strong physical attack. It's primarily a special wall, but it's not total deadweight against physical attackers either.
I don't think anyone has ever considered Gengar a ground counter, or even a check, especially considering two of those mons you mentioned hit him through Levitate and Gliscor is one off the best Gengar counters in OU. That being said, losing free switch in opportunities really sucks for a frail mon like Gengar. Having immunites on your team is very useful during battles because it can make your opponent hesitate to use a move. Just the threat of a Gengar switching in makes you hesitant to click Earthquake on a Scarf Lando.Tbh what ground types is Gengar switching into anyways? Knock Off Gliscor? Knock Off Landorus-T? Earthquake Mold Breaker Excadrill? Earth Power Kyurem-B? Knock Off Donphan? Stone Edge Hippowdown?
...Honestly the worst thing about this nerf is taking spikes damage since it isn't like Gengar is a very good ground counter anyways tbh
Too bad the weather wars will never be as good as they were in gen 5. I miss sweeping teams with victrebell and exeggutor or shiftry and venusaur.It's great seeing how the weather wars are getting new troops, and now Mantine is looking pretty great
Although RIP Gengar, your six-generation streak of being OU is finally over
The Chimecho buff is appreciated, but it's still rubbish even after the +30 boost
I'd be shocked if it had a niche; outside of maybe Wonder Trio/Double Defog teams; because Stealth rock inhibits it so much. As an all out attacker, it's unreliability is such a turn off for me, and I can't see it being any better than Staraptor due its God awful stats. I actually would expect the SpDef set to be the only niche left of it due to the fact that Fire/Flying is actually a really nice defensive typingWhat do you think about Talonflame's chances of having some kind of place or niche in OU this gen, as slim as it may seem right now?
IMO, I think it will have to resort to the older, often considered noobish, all-out-offensive movesets it had in the early XY meta, as they were affected the least by the Gale Wings nerf... and can, in fact, entirely forgo it in favor of Flame Body.
Talonflame @ Sharp Beak / Liechi Berry / Salac Berry / Apicot Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost / Natural Gift
It's somewhat obvious to say that Talonflame benefited from essentially nothing in this generation shift. It gained no notable moves, can't take advantage of a Z-Crystal for luring moves as all it has is Solar Beam, and Bloom Doom will tickle at best on a physical attacker, and, of course, the nerf on Gale Wings.
This means Swords Dance is most likely the way to go, as after all, Talonflame has an amazing base 128 Speed that means it will often hit first with no need for priority, and it helps that this generation introduced literally one Pokemon that is faster than it... that happens to be doubly weak to its Flying STAB (Pheromosa). The Mega Evolution speed buff didn't mean much to it as well, as the Pokemon that outrun it only after Mega Evolving, with the exception of Mega Alakazam, already had ways to beat Talonflame (Swampert's bulk and rain-boosted moves, Lopunny's Fake Out, Manectric's Intimidate and resistance to Flying, etc.).
The Berries may be as effective as always, with Apicot Berry Natural Gift being unaffected by Grassy Terrain meaning Heatran still fears it. It can also be an emergency check to Tapu Bulu, taking one move and both probably getting KOed by their respective recoil.
Bulk Up sets may have a chance to work, but they either have to risk taking a hit before Roosting or sacrifice bulk to keep a fast Roost, so I think it will be inferior in this gen.