OM Theorymon - #2: Mix and Mega + 2 moves (Submissions) See Post #45!

inspired by (but not identical to) the ou theorymon project


Art by momo!

Current Slate:

OM Theorymon is a project that aims to answer "what if" questions about competitive Pokémon. Each timespan of 2 weeks will feature a slate with a topic to discuss and relate to our various OMs.

Our goal:
Our goal is to explore possibilities missed out on because of how the game works, and limitations put in place on competitive Pokemon by the nature of the game we play. What if Sand gave a 1.5x power boost to Rock moves? What if Fire was Super-Effective against Fairy? What if accuracy checks didn't exist? How would these different questions affect OMs as we know them?

What we'll discuss:
Examples of potential topics include modifications of the type chart, changes to specific moves, alterations of abilities, and many more things! Things we will steer away from include giving individual Pokémon access to moves, abilities, or specific typings, as these are already possible in certain OMs. We will instead be primarily focusing on mechanical changes, and keeping it specific (such as changing one type) rather than broad (such as inverting every types effectiveness) to differentiate this project from existing or potential Other Metas or Mashups.

Process:
At the beginning of each 2 week period, I will announce what change we will be theorymonning around. For the next fourteen days we will discuss meta trends, potential sets, newly banworthy or unbanworthy Pokemon, and more in all our favorite OMs. After those fourteen days we will have a voting period of three days to determine the coolest new sets posted, and the top three voted submissions will be winners added to our Hall of Fame. However, this vote is not the main point of this project. The main point is to try and discover what competitive could have looked like with a single change!

Rules:
  • Be respectful. It's absolutely encouraged to discuss or give feedback on other people's submissions/ideas, but personal attacks won't be tolerated.
  • Don't just post a Pokemon set or one-liner! Even if brief, some sort of explanation as to how your set idea would be different from already existing trends in a given meta will make it infinitely easier for people to understand.
  • Submitting a Pokemon posted by someone else is fine as long as it's either for a different meta or has a legitimately different set. Changing up one move or EVs does not count as a "different set."
  • Not every post you make has to be a submission. Even just coming up with different ideas regarding the impact on each meta(s) we discuss is welcome--anything that fosters more discussion is ideal!
  • Keep in mind that posts should always be from a competitive perspective--try to stray away from "meme" sets or gimmicks that wouldn't really have a place in a competitive environment.
Reservations:
  • If you want to reserve a particular Pokemon, set, or idea--state explicitly what it is that you want to reserve.
  • After 24 hours, any unexplored reservations will be treated as expired. At that point, they're fair game for anyone else to take.

Q: Can I discuss OMs besides the main 'ladder' OMs?
A: Sure! Our main focus will be on our major metagames with tour and ladder representation but feel free to discuss any Other Metagames from our section.

Q: How can I suggest a topic for a slate?
A: PM me Thinkerino on Smogon with your idea.

Q: Will we ever get to test these out in an actual meta?
A: Where it is possible to use existing mods to create tours we would love to make roomtours turning our theories into practice. However the majority of what we discuss will require code that simply does not currently exist on the server, and as such we will not be able to make tours.

Notes:
>
Any set intended for voting consideration needs to be prefaced by "Submission Start" and "Submission End"
> Only ONE of the sets you post can count towards voting. This is to prevent someone from theoretically posting a huge plethora of sets and making it difficult for anyone else to contribute to the voting process. In any case where a post has more than one 'Submission Start/End', only the first set will be considered for voting.

Triple Typing in Camomons

Submission Start

:ss/Toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover

Typing: Dark/Poison/Water
Currently in Camomons, Toxapex tends to retain its Poison-type and either choose to run Dark-type to become immune to Psychic, or Water-type so it can retain its resistance to opposing Water-type attacks. Combining the benefits of both with a Dark/Water/Poison typing enables Toxapex to fulfill both roles in a single slot, making it all the more desirable in the builder. While Toxapex would obviously still be weak to Electric and Ground-type attacks, the fact that it no longer has to choose between water-resistance and psychic weakness is huge--pivoting into water-type attackers without the coverage to kill it would become significantly easier, and Knock Off + Scald + Toxic is honestly pretty amazing utility. Admittedly, it would be really weak to setup mons who don't fear scald burns or being poisoned, but that's what the remaining 5 teammates are for! Toxapex would still benefit from being paired with Pokemon like Mew and Clefable, who have access to a myriad of potential typings and could easily patch up weaknesses for it.

Submission End
 
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:ss/mew: Pilot: Triple Typing in Camomons:ss/Clefable:

As the title above implies, for the first week of OM Theorymon the topic will be on the Other Meta known as "Camomons." Currently, the way it works is that each Pokemon adopts a typing created by whatever the first two moves in its set are--so for example, Clefable with Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Soft-Boiled/Calm Mind would have a Fire/Electric typing in Camomons.

Twist: What if we went even further and made it so that each Pokemon in Camomons gets three types, each being from the first three moves in its set? Using the Clefable example once again, that would make its typing Fire/Electric/Normal.

How would these changes affect the meta? What kind of crazy typings would certain Pokemon be able to pull off? Is there anything ban/unban worthy? You have until 1/16 to post your thoughts in this thread. Happy theorymonning!



 
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In The Hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Submission Start
:ss/magearna:
Magearna @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Shadow Ball
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind
Fairy/Ghost/Steel Magearna is something that I've used in Hidden Type last generation, but this gen it gained access to an important tool that could make this set work in this theoretical metagame: Draining Kiss. Fairy/Ghost/Steel is a phenomenal defensive typing, resisting 7 types and being immune to 4 (plus Toxic, Sandstorm, and trapping) while only having 3 weaknesses, and this typing would let Magearna set up a lot easier. I've used Fairy/Ghost Magearna a lot recently in regular Camomons on my Screens HO, and the main hinderance it has run into was Toxic, so the addition of a Steel-typing would cover this perfectly. This set probably still struggles against Unaware Clefable, and I think a 3 typing Camomons might have an abundance of Normal-types, so this might not be the best set, but it looks really really neat on paper.
Submission End

Additional ideas:
Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
This typing is INSANE!!! I used to use this on Mega Sableye in hidden type and WEWWWWW i forgot how good it is lolol

Slowbro @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Teleport

Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Earthquake
- Crunch
 
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My question is how would weakness and resistance be handled if let's say, you use a fighting move on a Normal/Poison/Fairy? I assume it would just resist it normally?

This would allow 1 pokemon to have a 3 type core. You can have a Fire/Water/Grass core, a Fighting/Dark/Psychic core, AND a Fairy/Dragon/Steel core in just 3 pokemon.

Some type combinations might have no weaknesses, even if it needs it's ability for it.

Lastly, how many possible type combos are there i wonder? Including 2 type combos and then +18 for single types


Fire/Electric/Poison

-Weaknesses
8x: Ground
2x: Psychic, Water, Rock

-Resistances
2x: Electric, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison
4x Bug, Fairy, Grass, Steel

-Immunities
Burn, Toxic, Paralysis



Fire/Electric/Steel

-Weaknesses
8x: Ground
2x: Fighting, Water

-Resistances
2x: Dragon, Electric, Normal, Psychic
4x: Bug, Fairy, Flying, Ice, Grass
8x: Steel

-Immunities
Poison, Burn, Toxic, Paralysis, Sandstorm Damage
 
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My question is how would weakness and resistance be handled if let's say, you use a fighting move on a Normal/Poison/Fairy? I assume it would just resist it normally?
I'd assume the math would be something like 2*.5*.5 = 0.5, which would be a 2x resistance to Fighting.


This would allow 1 pokemon to have a 3 type core. You can have a Fire/Water/Grass core, a Fighting/Dark/Psychic core, AND a Fairy/Dragon/Steel core in just 3 pokemon.
Yeah, this is definitely something I thought was CRAZY. You can super stack some of the most iconic defensive cores in Pokemon without even giving up that many slots. I think notable abusers are mons with recovery and overall decent stats, like Mew, Celebi, and Jirachi (even though its recovery would really just be Wish). That being said, I think a lot of typing matchups as we know them would just be completely thrown out the window. Some mons like Mew can be WHATEVER you want them to be, which makes its already extremely valuable slot on teams virtually priceless.


Lastly, how many possible type combos are there i wonder? Including 2 type combos and then +18 for single types
Good question. If someone wants to do the math for this, feel free :smogduck:


Edit: Something really interesting is that while having three types can be really useful, sometimes your mon has to sacrifice a move(s) that it would otherwise prefer to have. An example of this is Toxapex, where it doesn't have Haze to stop setup sweepers. This creates a cool dynamic where you have to consider the pros and cons of acquiring a desirable typing at the cost of only being able to use certain moves.
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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Moderator
Poison / Dark / Fighting seems likely to be extremely common. The best user I immediately think of is Urshifu, which would basically add Poison Jab STAB onto its usual sets.

Looking at the teambuilder and trying to puzzle stuff out this is hard to think about, because I don't know triple types nearly as well as double types. I'm not actually sure what I should be looking for in regards to defensive mons. However with everything getting triple STAB my instinct is this meta would be offensively tilted.
Double weaknesses are sort of hard to avoid, but I don't think that would be much of an issue. You know 3/4 of the types of moves any specific mon has, so just don't get hit by something you're 4x weak to.

Here are some sets I made :D
:ss/haxorus:
Haxorus @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance / X-Scissor / Dragon Dance

While Bug/Ground/Rock isn't PERFECT coverage here (Flying + Rock resist + Rock resist messes you up, and probably some other stuff) it's really good and Haxorus seems neat. Camo always loves its immunity abusers, and I suspect Haxorus will like preying on Levitate users. Defensively the typing isn't much to write home about, sporting a 4x weakness to Water and relatively few resistances.

:ss/latias:
Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic / Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Surf / Mystical Fire
- Roost / Calm Mind

Poison/Water/Electric:
Weaknesses: Ground, Psychic
Resistances: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison, Steel, Water
Immunities: Paralysis, Toxic

Electric/Steel/Flying:
Weaknesses: Fire
Resistances: Bug, Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Normal, Psychic, Steel
Immunities: Ground, Poison, Paralysis, Sandstorm damage, Toxic

etc.

Latias, as always, has a million options. It does suffer from significant 4MSS due to only really getting one slot for utility, with most of the types it wants being different from the utility moves it usually uses. I'm not sure about that second typing I listed because Mew is around, and will do what it always does in Camo. Everything. Without Levitate to abuse (because what good is a Flying type with Levitate, eh :rotom-fan:) I don't see it doing much Mew besides go fast.

:ss/gyarados:
Gyarados @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Outrage

Gyarados gets Scale Shot, which I didn't know until just now! I love choiced Gyarados in STABmons, and this borrows heavily from that, allowing Gyarados to clean offense if it gets going. I guess it requires some luck with Scale Shot, so get lucky ;)

Lastly, how many possible type combos are there i wonder? Including 2 type combos and then +18 for single types
5220
18*17*16+18*17+18 = 5220
That includes 'repeats', EG it would count Excadrill and Steelix as different types because the order is swapped. I can figure it out without those but it would be a much bigger pain to type so I'd prefer not to :/ *lazy* probly about half


Alsozatch is right I'm wrong
 
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Submission Start

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Drill Run
- Swords Dance

Typing: Fighting/Fairy/Ground

Very cool offensive typing on a very cool Pokemon that we all know I like in Camo, really good coverage with it that's all boosted by its ability and Swords Dance. Just don't look too much into its weaknesses, they're not great, but it's Lycanroc. Normally it gets limited in its STAB options, which are good, but with a triple typing it can make a coverage move into another STAB move.

Submission End
 
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Submission Start


Steely Knives (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot

The standard defensive counterplay for Porygon-Z was always to focus on resisting its two STABs (through typing or immunity) and having the special bulk to eat an off-STAB hit, right? Well, that's not gonna cut it any more. Unless you want to tailor a mon's whole typing to narrowly counter this, you'll need to be able to outspeed it at some point.

Submission End

Incidentally, I think this would make an excellent partner with Flaming Deoxys's Lycanroc set up there. Anything that could plausibly check one is going to have a rough time against the other.
 
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Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Drill Run
- Swords Dance

Very cool offensive typing on a very cool Pokemon that we all know I like in Camo, really good coverage with it that's all boosted by its ability and Swords Dance. Just don't look too much into its weaknesses, they're not great, but it's Lycanroc. Normally it gets limited in its STAB options, which are good, but with a triple typing it can make a coverage move into another STAB move.
1609771648112.png
1609771564483.png




Steely Knives (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot

The standard defensive counterplay for Porygon-Z was always to focus on resisting its two STABs (through typing or immunity) and having the special bulk to eat an off-STAB hit, right? Well, that's not gonna cut it any more. Unless you want to tailor a mon's whole typing to narrowly counter this, you'll need to be able to outspeed it at some point.

Incidentally, I think this would make an excellent partner with Flaming Deoxys's Lycanroc set up there. Anything that could plausibly check one is going to have a rough time against the other.
1609771461392.png

1609770803856.png


What incredible offensive typings LOL--together, they hit nearly EVERYTHING. I think what makes PorygonZ especially dangerous is the fact that it's hitting Ghost, Ground, and Water for STAB super effective damage, which I'd say are probably all relatively common in a Camomons-based meta. That being said, it does have quite a few weaknesses despite gaining access to a few useful defensive capabilities due to all of its immunities. I think Akumeoy is absolutely correct though: whether by coincidence or due to intention, Morytha's Lycanroc and their PorygonZ have some insane synergy. Looking at the coverage charts, Lycanroc hits virtually all of the types that Porygon is neutral against for super effective damage, which means prepping for this kind of offensive core would certainly require some thought. Here, it might be useful to consider GrandSmasher's point-->

This would allow 1 pokemon to have a 3 type core. You can have a Fire/Water/Grass core, a Fighting/Dark/Psychic core, AND a Fairy/Dragon/Steel core in just 3 pokemon.
Are there any typings/cores that would be able to at least do a decent job at handling offensive threats who stack good offensive types like Lycanroc and PorygonZ? I spent some time in teambuilder trying to work something out, but went to bed before I found any answers. I'll keep looking, though--and if anyone else comes up with anything, please post!
 
(18 choose 3) + (18 choose 2) + (18 choose 1) = 816 + 153 + 18 = 987 possible unique type combinations.
Ha, why was 10 afraid of 9?
Because 987!


Lame jokes aside, I thought it'd be more than that, but it's good to know. I'm usually good at math, but I'm still in high school and haven't done much for math classes for a couple years (not that I didn't want to, it's a story, and this isn't the place for it) so I'm not great with exponents and such.

View attachment 305154View attachment 305153




View attachment 305150
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What incredible offensive typings LOL--together, they hit nearly EVERYTHING. I think what makes PorygonZ especially dangerous is the fact that it's hitting Ghost, Ground, and Water for STAB super effective damage, which I'd say are probably all relatively common in a Camomons-based meta. That being said, it does have quite a few weaknesses despite gaining access to a few useful defensive capabilities due to all of its immunities. I think Akumeoy is absolutely correct though: whether by coincidence or due to intention, Morytha's Lycanroc and their PorygonZ have some insane synergy. Looking at the coverage charts, Lycanroc hits virtually all of the types that Porygon is neutral against for super effective damage, which means prepping for this kind of offensive core would certainly require some thought. Here, it might be useful to consider GrandSmasher's point-->



Are there any typings/cores that would be able to at least do a decent job at handling offensive threats who stack good offensive types like Lycanroc and PorygonZ? I spent some time in teambuilder trying to work something out, but went to bed before I found any answers. I'll keep looking, though--and if anyone else comes up with anything, please post!
I've found Normal/Water/Ground to be decent. Walls Porygon-Z's Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball, and threatens with Ground moves. While weak to Fighting, Lycanroc doesn't want to switch into a potential Water attack. It's 4x weak to Grass like normal, is immune to Ghost and Electric and resists Fire, Poison, Rock and Steel


Edit so I don't double post

Weak moves like Mud Slap on pokemon that have a limited move pool can be useful for taking advantage of 8x weaknesses. Mud Slap vs a Fire/Poison/Steel is effectively the same as a 160 bp neutral attack that always lowers accuracy.
 
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My Lycanroc isn't able to do much to Ghost/Flying/Steel and the Porygon-Z can't do much to Normal/Steel/Grass, though that one is really specific for that. Normal/Water/Ground would be better probably, like GrandSmasher said. Given how many things can run broken offensive typings, walling stuff would be a lot harder than usual. Harder than it is to just slap on good offensive combos, so I would imagine there being a good amount more bans than normal, like Magearna obviously.

I guess if you really wanted a Ghost/Flying/Steel you could do Corviknight with Spite, but that takes up a moveslot that it really wants. for something like U-turn.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Spite
- Roost
- Defog

Normal/Water/Ground is a lot easier to find: Mew, Quagsire, among other things, but I think those are probably most notable. Quagsire even comes with the added bonus of Unaware.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Soft-Boiled
- U-turn

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic

Mew can just run a normal Camomons set and get away with it and still has nice stats. However, Quagsire has a lot less special bulk to use. I'm sure there's much more to use that I haven't thought of, but those are what came to mind.

OOPS I DID FLYING/GHOST/FLYING CORVIKNIGHT I FIXED IT
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributor
Not going too in depth here but this idea looks fun and broken!

Submission Start
:Tornadus-Therian:Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Hurricane
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot

Use this if you wanna laugh at U-turn's ugly face and have a broken setup mon that heals for free.
Rock-types aren't super common so the 4x weakness isn't too big of an issue and they aren't seen too much defensively either. 1/8 damage from Rillaboom's Grass-type attacks and 1/4 from Fairy- and Fighting-types is also super nice.
Submission End

Some other ideas I like
:Landorus-Therian:Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Knock Off

Lando-T per usual but it boosts Explosion to make it even more annoying to deal with (until it explodes).
Fighting neutrality from Normal STAB is a little annoying here, but this does pretty much what Lando wants to do.

:entei:Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire / Flare Blitz
- Iron Head
- Double-Edge

Entei now gets the better offensive typing with Fire and better defensive typing with Steel so it avoids burns, toxic, and is neutral to rocks.
The typing is strange with only three weaknesses but two huge ones, and all the lovely Heatran mega resists too.
 
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ShionShadows

Soaring to Greatness
Well here I go trying to contribute.

[Submission Start]

:ss/arcanine:

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire/Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe OR 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Relaxed/Sassy Nature
- Flamethrower
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Morning Sun
Typing: Fire/Steel/Fairy

The evs could definitely be optimized but the premise is simple.

Fire/Steel/Fairy:
Weaknesses: Ground, Water
Resistances: Bug, Dark, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Steel
Immunities: Dragon, Poison

An amazing typing that allows Arcanine to switch into many threats. I chose to do Relaxed/Sassy to not weaken the attacks because Arcanine's other physical fire stab is either too weak or causes recoil. Can just completely blank some mons with its plentiful resists that's immune to burn and toxic chipping it along with a Rock neutrality.

Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Morning Sun
Typing: Normal/Fire/Fighting

The difference between Arcanine and Entei offensively is that Arcanine has recovery to effectively utilize a Life Orb set, along with having a better tertiary STAB to offset your rock weakness. Not to mention that Arcanine can smash water and flying mons with its access to Wild Charge.

[Submission End]

Honestly with how Camo is I'm surprised someone didn't take this behemoth earlier
 
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GL Volkner

yes i got your letter, yes i'm doing better
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Andyboy deserves just as much credit for this post as I do if not more, he suggested the second set and I just put my own spin on it while also making some changes to the first set.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Spikes / Stealth Rock / Swords Dance

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Taunt / Earthquake / Waterfall / Spikes / Substitute

Mew's good, who would've guessed? The lack of Steel/Dragon/Flying posting honestly surprised me. With this typing, you're weak to Thousand Arrows after than the first, Ice, and... That's about it. Mew's natural bulk really appreciates the typing provided because that gives it opportunities to set up and it can stay in on stuff it wouldn't be able to in regular Camomons. The Dragon typing does a ton for Steel/Flying - You're no longer weak to Fire and Electric, which is huge because a ton of the quality Steel checks in the tier are Water, Electric or Fire types which the Dragon typing provides a resistance to. This actually allows Mew to take on some of its prior checks such as Lati@s, while also allowing Mew to be a devastating setup sweeper due to the lack of weaknesses. However, Ice being such a strong offensive typing and strong neutral hits theoretically would inconvenience this quite a bit.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Surf
- Toxic
- Roost

More Steel-type abuse! This set's not nearly as good as the Mew in my opinion, but Hydreigon has a strong defensive presence with this typing and since it has Levitate, it finds itself only weak to Electric Pokemon. However, you'll probably be hard pressed to find an Electric-type setup sweeper that loves being Toxiced, so they can't really hard switch in, and with a plethora of Electric-type options being specially biased, Hydreigon can tank a hit and Toxic it in return should it really need to.

I have a few other sets under the spoiler, but I won't go in depth with them because I'm lazy and think the previous two sets are super fire already. I'd love to play this meta, it honestly sounds like a lot of fun.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

landorus gonna landorus

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Calm Mind

landorus gonna landorus part 2

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Dance

this seems very threatening if you can get it in on anything with no water type atks


I will say that in this variant of Camomons, it seems a lot harder to get creative with your broken defensive typings/offensive typings. As a result, after you've figured out what moves the Pokemon probably has to make the sick typing it has, it's a lot easier to figure out the 4th moveslot. In Mew's case, if it doesn't have a Flying or Normal type, it's easy to assume it's offensive or the last moveslot is recovery. As a result, it sounds as if it would be shockingly easy to determine sets. I also found while building this meta that ironically, even though the point of the twist is to increase creativity, it can be very restrictive to build sometimes. Finding the perfect third type, or trying to not sabotage your previous two types, is a real struggle and I find that pretty ironic. It's also more difficult to consider opposing types while building - This is because of the potential for more creativity. I think I'd enjoy playing this though, it seems like a fun metagame :)
 
Wow. I'm honestly blown away by the ideas we've seen so far!

UPDATE:
It seems as though identifying submissions isn't going to be as straightforward as I intended. To try and make things easier, I'll add this to the rules: Any set intended for voting consideration needs to be prefaced by "Submission Start" and "Submission End" in order to differentiate from general theorymonning. Using the Toxapex example in the OP, a layout for this would be:

Submission Start
:ss/Toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover

Typing: Dark/Poison/Water
Currently in Camomons, Toxapex tends to retain its Poison-type and either choose to run Dark-type to become immune to Psychic, or Water-type so it can retain its resistance to opposing Water-type attacks. Combining the benefits of both with a Dark/Water/Poison typing enables Toxapex to fulfill both roles in a single slot, making it all the more desirable in the builder. While Toxapex would obviously still be weak to Electric and Ground-type attacks, the fact that it no longer has to choose between water-resistance and psychic weakness is huge--pivoting into water-type attackers without the coverage to kill it would become significantly easier, and Knock Off + Scald + Toxic is honestly pretty amazing utility. Admittedly, it would be really weak to setup mons who don't fear scald burns or being poisoned, but that's what the remaining 5 teammates are for! Toxapex would still benefit from being paired with Pokemon like Mew and Clefable, who have access to a myriad of potential typings and could easily patch up weaknesses for it.

Submission End

If you've already posted, no worries! Just go back and make the necessary edits :]
 
Alright, so I found a typing that could be broken, but from what I gathered, there aren't many mons that have the move types required.

Submission Start

:swsh/snorlax:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Darkest Lariat
- Heavy Slam
- Ice Punch

Typing: Ghost/Dark/Steel
Classic Curselax with a type combination that leaves Snorlax with only 2 weaknesses. Fire, and Ground. Thick Fat halves damage from Fire and Ice, making him only really weak to Ground. He also comes with a slew of resists and immunities, adding onto his defensive typing, on a bulky mon that can't be poisoned. Ice Punch hits Ground types that threaten him too.

Weakness: Fire, Ground
Resistances: Bug, Flying, Dragon, Grass, Ice, Rock, Steel
Immunities: Fighting, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Prankster, Sandstorm Damage, Toxic, Trapping
Thick Fat

Submission End

If anyone can find a mon with good moves that abuses this, let me know lol. I tried looking at Levitate and Flash Fire a bit too, but Hydreigon has 2 Ghost options. Astonish, and Spite. the others I looked at were similar or were missing a type.

EDIT: I had forgotten about Curse on Ghost types effect so this doesnt work :(
 
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ShionShadows

Soaring to Greatness
Alright, so I found a typing that could be broken, but from what I gathered, there aren't many mons that have the move types required.

Submission Start

:swsh/snorlax:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Darkest Lariat
- Heavy Slam
- Ice Punch

Typing: Ghost/Dark/Steel
Classic Curselax with a type combination that leaves Snorlax with only 2 weaknesses. Fire, and Ground. Thick Fat halves damage from Fire and Ice, making him only really weak to Ground. He also comes with a slew of resists and immunities, adding onto his defensive typing, on a bulky mon that can't be poisoned. Ice Punch hits Ground types that threaten him too.

Weakness: Fire, Ground
Resistances: Bug, Flying, Dragon, Grass, Ice, Rock, Steel
Immunities: Fighting, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Prankster, Sandstorm Damage, Toxic, Trapping
Thick Fat

Submission End

If anyone can find a mon with good moves that abuses this, let me know lol. I tried looking at Levitate and Flash Fire a bit too, but Hydreigon has 2 Ghost options. Astonish, and Spite. the others I looked at were similar or were missing a type.
Just gonna fill you in that curse works differently if you are a ghost type. Not the boosting move you know but a move that takes half your health to inflict a curse on the opponent that takes a quarter of your health each turn.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
submission start
Wow look at all the Steel types!
:bw/magnezone:
Magnezone @ Chesto Berry / Iapapa Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Curse
- Rest

This thing traps your steel, Curses it, then sits back and tries not to die. STAB Body Press completes the set. This does jack to Steel/Ghost Types but Zone never traps those so it's whatever. If Steel types are as prominent as the submissions make them seem Zone would be a handy tool, although I'm not sure if this is the ideal set.

If Hidden Power existed I would run Sunny Day Zone instead for the STAB but no such luck.
submission end

more stuff:
:ss/buzzwole:
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Dual Chop
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Toxic / Bulk Up

Buzzwole @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dual Chop / Outrage
- Iron Head
- Leech Life
- Earthquake / Close Combat / Roost



SmartSelect_20210104-215455_Chrome.jpg

Buzzwole has an expansive movepool and is one of the few Pokemon that can effectively run a couple types, notably Steel/Dragon/Bug. I had some trouble on non-Flying-type sets squeezing in any moves besides STAB and Roost, so 4MSS is definitely an issue (which is a recurring thing in this).

As always Buzzwole is a physical titan, sporting awesome bulk and good Attack. It has a TON of options, being able to mix Fighting, Dragon, Flying, Steel, Bug, Dark, Ground, Steel (yes it deserves two mentions and I totally didn't forget I already mentioned it why would you ever think that), Poison, Rock, and I guess Normal and Electric in... a lot of configurations. I posted a couple in the hide tag above but they're far from exhaustive, they're just what I thought looked cool.
 
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What have you brought upon this cursed land?! Now thanks to you, everything can start stacking immunities!
Steel types won't even have to fear the occasional CC or Focus Miss since their Ghost type will laugh at those!
Even the holy EQ's widespread distribution means naught now that a simple Flying type (<Roost slot) nulls it!

Therefore... we have an idea of what to avoid if we wish to deal damage. *thunderstrike* Let's get comfy.
Submission Start

Naganadel @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Wave
- Nasty Plot

Going along the thought that Steel and the types that mesh well with it (Flying, Fairy, Ghost) are gonna be the MVP in this meta, Fire Blast seems like it has a soft spot. And to deal with immunity-on-weakness stacks, a move nothing is immune to like Dark Pulse goes pretty well with it.
So, we pick those two. And as a last strong move, we grab Sludge Wave over TBolt since it's better at dealing with Dark resist + Dragon types mixes - and we thankfully have FIre Blast for dealing with Steel types that are immune to it.
WIth that, we should be set, click NP, grab a KO to increase speed, and begin your glorious Sucker Punch-resisting sweep.
And extra, Dark/Fire/Poison is surprisingly great defensively. 9 resistances and 1 immunity for only 3 weaknesses, though a x4 one to Ground that might make you want to pair it with a Flyingified or Levitate mon to serve as switchin.
Submission End
(and...)
Submission Start
Let's talk about two types you don't want. Grass, boasting a facepalming 5 weaknesses and offenses resisted by 7 types. And Bug, suffering from a SR weakness and lame offensiveness that's resisted by 7 types, and conveniently the ones you're gonna see here. (Steel, Fairy, Flying, Ghost)
Well, they are the two only types besides Flying to resist Ground. Would be a shame if Flying's Ground immunity happened to disappear all of sudden and they ended up being the only two things left, don't you think...


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Soft Sand
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
- U-turn
- Gravity

Go wild, practically unresisted pivot. Two weaknesses. Three STABs. Bulky boi. Stronk damage. Can help teammates who appreciate gravity too. (<Sticky Web fans, this one is for you)
Ground/Steel/Bug is a generous defensive typing that boasts 8 resistances and 2 immunities. Resists SR and still gets STAB on U-Turn. And, yeah, there's Gravity, the crux of this set. Under Gravity, every mon is equal-ly quakable, as long as it's not one of those most likely rare two types. And bonus, Gravity makes Iron Tail hit the maximum accuracy, giving you another reliable STAB.
Submission End
 
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anaconja

DUHH PUPLE FOG!!!DUHH BURPLE FROG???PURPLE FROG!!!
is a Tiering Contributor
submission start

:sm/tornadus-therian:
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe or 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Timid or Sassy Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn

poison/flying/dark is a solid typing, resisting everything rillaboom can throw at it (bug, fighting, ground, grass, dark) while also getting hit by common special attackers neutrally. getting stab on utility moves sludge bomb and koff while also having a pretty hard-hitting move in hurricane is very useful too. 0 speed investment with sassy allows you to underspeed uninvested latias which can be helpful for frail teammates who want to beat it.

submission end
 
Here's one typing I found hilariously good on paper, and shock horror, it doesn't involve Steel!:
Water/Flying/Ground
You get all the many, many well documented benefits of Ground/Flying typing, but now you're only single weak to Ice and Grass. Here's a couple of abusers I thought of:
Submission Start
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe (customisable)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flip Turn/Scald
- Scorching Sands/Spikes
- Roost/Defog
- Stealth Rock/U-turn/Volt Switch/Soft-Boiled
The ultimate pivot is upon us. Camomons Mew does Camomons Mew stuff. But wow uh this set. It's like Lando-T, but Lando-T doesn't get recovery or Scorching Sands. Access to STAB Scald/Scorching Sands, a pivot move, a recovery move, and a hazard move. This set fully exploits those 2 key Ground and Electric immunities, SR neutrality and Spikes immunity to set/remove hazards throughout a game and regain momentum afterwards. Also packs useful resistances to Fire, Steel, Poison, Fighting and U-turn, I mean Bug. All for just three weaknesses: Freeze Dry (8*weak...), Ice and Grass.
Submission End
Ok that's the submission, now time for the fun stuff.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Dual Wingbeat
- Dragon Dance
With immunity to Electric moves and Bounce for Grass-types, Gyarados, I mean Salamence becomes pretty hard to manage outside a scarfer with Freeze-Dry. Dragonite has access to the same moves too.
Dhelmise @ Life Orb
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Anchor Shot
- Brick Break
- Swords Dance
Why is everything that gets Poltergeist so slow? Anyway, double STAB on Anchor Shot, and Ghost/Fighting STAB coverage to go with it. Steel/Ghost that's neutral to Dark is ok defensively too.
Golurk @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dynamic Punch
- Mega Kick
- Rock Polish
Golurk can do something similar with the extra Normal typing allowing it to set up on other Ghosts, as really the extra coverage is pretty redundant unless there's something you want to hit SE, or you don't want to be walled by other Normal/Ghosts, Dark/Ghost/Fightings or whatever.
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Brick Break
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Nothing groundbreaking here, just my bias to Ice types making me add 3 weaknesses to Urshifu's typing. Looking at it more positively, Weavile is no longer weak to U-turn and Stealth Rock!
Magearna @ Life Orb
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Shift Gear
- Focus Blast/whatever lol it's Magearna
Yo, we heard you liked BoltBeam, so we added some STAB on your BoltBeam, and dealt with two of your weaknesses by slapping on Steel. What's that? Three really bad Quad Weaknesses? Lalalalala I can't hear you over the sound of my BoltBeam that isn't weak to Rock.
 
Good question. If someone wants to do the math for this, feel free
Using combination formulas, there should be 816 possible unique tri-type combinations, and 135 dual types and 18 monotypes, which checks out with Bulbapedia's 171 unique combinations with only dual and monotypes. 816+135+18=987.

Also, Normal-Ghost is a good dual-typing, adding Dark would change the weakness to Fairy but add a Psychic Immunity, so that gives it a Normal, Fighting, Ghost, and Psychic Immunity in exchange for 1 weakness. I don't think there are any resistances off the top of my head. Ghost-Dark-Poison or Dark-Poison-Flying would be interesting solid defensive typings, STAB KOff and Poison Immunity, think Mandibuzz with that second typing. I'll make a sub later.
 
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