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The problem with Return is that overall Megamence does less damage than Mega Ray's Dragon Ascent, so Double-Edge or Thrash is essentially a given or Mence gets outclassed in the power department.
They both offer different things, though. Salamence has the ability to run Refresh and Roost, as well as it has Intimidate before Mega Evolving. Ray, on the other hand, is stronger without having to be locked into a move/taking recoil damage, but doesn't have access to Refresh or Roost. I forgot who said it, but somebody said something along the lines of: If you need more help with EKiller, you use Salamence. If you need more help with Kyogre, you use Rayquaza.
Protect is required to Mega evolve safely to get the 350 speed. Magic Bounce is invaluable, it allows Mega Diancie to counter Lugia, Deoxys S, Darkrai, Giratina forms. Moonblast hits hard, it OHKO Mega Rayquaza, non SpDef Palkia, Yveltal. Diamond Storm OHKO Ho-Oh, Earth Power 2HKO Primal Groudon.
Protect is required to Mega evolve safely to get the 350 speed. Magic Bounce is invaluable, it allows Mega Diancie to counter Lugia, Deoxys S, Darkrai, Giratina forms. Moonblast hits hard, it OHKO Mega Rayquaza, non SpDef Palkia, Yveltal. Diamond Storm OHKO Ho-Oh, Earth Power 2HKO Primal Groudon.
I don't really think you need Protect, to be honest. Regular Diancie has 50/150/150 defenses to help it Mega Evolve without taking too much damage. There are many different options such as Heal Bell, Stealth Rock, Explosion, Rock Polish and Calm Mind that I'd rather use.
So far I like Facade use on Mega Mence in place of Refresh; I've found it quite useful in the amount of ORAS games with Mega Mence I have played. As for what STAB Mega Mence is going to have I can see Frustration, Double-Edge, and Thrash all getting use (I hope Giga Impact was a joke). Frustration is spamable without drawbacks, Double Edge can clean bulkier teams without fear of getting locked when your opponent still has a Zekrom etc. and Thrash can clean bulkier teams when Mence is at lower health without fear of suicide so long as resists have been eliminated.
Mega Diancie has access to SR + Magic Bounce and Cleric + Magic Bounce so thats pretty interesting. It would be funny if there was a glitch where Mega Diancie using SR against Magic Coat / Magic Bounce would cause an infinite bounce.
what do you guys think will be the most common mega-mence and mega-rayquaza sets in uber battles? i see pure physical sets being the most popular in order to break through things like lugia because both ray and mence have moves to boost their attack.
what i see often see on mence is dragon dance, return, earthquake, sub/roost.
there are quite a few pokemon that easily stop it if it is purely physical. mega aggron, mega steelix, rhyperior, avalugg, defensive t-tar and maybe mega slowbro are some checks to the physical set off the top of my head.
discussing mega salamence.
regarding a pure physical set, aggron switches into mega salamence whenever it wants to. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 76-90 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.3% chance to 4HKO
and it fears being OHKOd. 4 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Mega Def Salamence: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
the same scenario plays out with rhyerior. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
mega steelix can simply switch in and phaze with dragon tail. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
and if there are rocks on the field, salamence will lose 25 percent switching in again.
or steelix can go for the 2HKO with ice fang, though that seems very overspecialized as ice fang doesnt do much else. 4 Atk Mega Steelix Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 180-216 (45.6 - 54.8%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 472-556 (119.7 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
return misses the 2HKO at +1 and avalugg one shots with avalanche.
t-tar does work as it scores a clean OHKO. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 424-500 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
mega slowbro is check as it beats salamence 1 v 1. slowbro is likely to be 2HKOd by a +1 return. 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 356-420 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
under the condition that rocks are on the field, slowbro can freely switch in and OHKO with ice beam.
im not sure if salamence will ever be running the amount of bulk shown in the calcs, so most of the time, these will be guaranteed 1HKOs and 2HKOs.
discussing mega rayquazas pure physical sets.
if rayquaza isnt running any bulk, mega aggron beats it 1 v 1. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 160-189 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
then after V-creates defense drop. 4 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 346-408 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
rhyperior has the ability to switch into mega rayzuaza more so than aggron. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 138-163 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 230-272 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
avalanche will 2HKO rayquaza even if it is running bulk.
mega slowbro can beat rayquaza 1v1 if it isnt running bulk. 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 164-194 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
physically defensive dialga could work though it cant take as much abuse as the above mentioned pokemon. it at least can guarantee the 1HKO. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 398-470 (113.3 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
physically defensive xerneas and yveltal can switch in and KO. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 205-243 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 344-408 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 205-243 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 289-342 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
About P-Don, what do you think will be the best RP set ?
Special attacking or physical attacking ? Special attacking have the strongest neutral attack with Fire Blast while physical have more coverage options.
If physical, double dance or 3 moves coverage ? Double dance can destroy stall easily, while coverage is easier to set up...
Personnally, I think Rock Polish/Fire Blast/Precipice Blades/Stone Edge, with 252+ SpA / 128 Atk / 128 Spd would be the best cleaning set.
More attack and less special attack is another option...
what do you guys think will be the most common mega-mence and mega-rayquaza sets in uber battles? i see pure physical sets being the most popular in order to break through things like lugia because both ray and mence have moves to boost their attack.
what i see often see on mence is dragon dance, return, earthquake, sub/roost.
there are quite a few pokemon that easily stop it if it is purely physical. mega aggron, mega steelix, rhyperior, avalugg, defensive t-tar and maybe mega slowbro are some checks to the physical set off the top of my head.
discussing mega salamence.
regarding a pure physical set, aggron switches into mega salamence whenever it wants to. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 76-90 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.3% chance to 4HKO
and it fears being OHKOd. 4 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Mega Def Salamence: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
the same scenario plays out with rhyerior. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 368-436 (93.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
mega steelix can simply switch in and phaze with dragon tail. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 102-120 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO
and if there are rocks on the field, salamence will lose 25 percent switching in again.
or steelix can go for the 2HKO with ice fang, though that seems very overspecialized as ice fang doesnt do much else. 4 Atk Mega Steelix Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 180-216 (45.6 - 54.8%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 472-556 (119.7 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
return misses the 2HKO at +1 and avalugg one shots with avalanche.
t-tar does work as it scores a clean OHKO. 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Tyranitar: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Mega Tyranitar Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 424-500 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
mega slowbro is check as it beats salamence 1 v 1. slowbro is likely to be 2HKOd by a +1 return. 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Mega Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 356-420 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
under the condition that rocks are on the field, slowbro can freely switch in and OHKO with ice beam.
im not sure if salamence will ever be running the amount of bulk shown in the calcs, so most of the time, these will be guaranteed 1HKOs and 2HKOs.
discussing mega rayquazas pure physical sets.
if rayquaza isnt running any bulk, mega aggron beats it 1 v 1. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 160-189 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
then after V-creates defense drop. 4 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 346-408 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
rhyperior has the ability to switch into mega rayzuaza more so than aggron. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 138-163 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 230-272 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
avalanche will 2HKO rayquaza even if it is running bulk.
mega slowbro can beat rayquaza 1v1 if it isnt running bulk. 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 164-194 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
physically defensive dialga could work though it cant take as much abuse as the above mentioned pokemon. it at least can guarantee the 1HKO. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 398-470 (113.3 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
physically defensive xerneas and yveltal can switch in and KO. 252+ Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 205-243 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 344-408 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 205-243 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza: 289-342 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
First off, Rayquaza has not ran bulk and will not ever run bulk (although a Bulk Up set would be super based). Also, not a single calc shows Ray or Mence boosted, which kinda makes the walling thing a bit moot to say the least. Most of the Megas you mentioned do have an extreme opportunity cost just to even soft check Ray or Mence, preventing any other Megas from being used, and seem highly specialized (is physically defensive Mega TTar even a thing?) when you can run a different Mega such as Gengar or Mewtwo and not have all your momentum come crashing down on you. SD MegaRay can absolutely demolish most of these checks after a single boost:
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 160-190 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 230-272 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 373-439 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
moonblast OHKOs don't really need to say that
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 373-439 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Foul Play OHKOs but w/e
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 354-418 (87.8 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 235-277 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 162-192 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO (ok this is pretty awesome that bulk)
+2 252 Atk Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 250-295 (57.6 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not bad)
0 Atk Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 146-172 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Frankly, out of all of these Mega Slowbro (that bulk) and Rhypherior are the only decent checks, and they kinda get destroyed by PDon (though this could be not that useful since PDon wrecks everything), and I really hope you weren't being serious about Avalugg being a check, the thing's PU for a reason.
About P-Don, what do you think will be the best RP set ?
Special attacking or physical attacking ? Special attacking have the strongest neutral attack with Fire Blast while physical have more coverage options.
If physical, double dance or 3 moves coverage ? Double dance can destroy stall easily, while coverage is easier to set up...
Personnally, I think Rock Polish/Fire Blast/Precipice Blades/Stone Edge, with 252+ SpA / 128 Atk / 128 Spd would be the best cleaning set.
More attack and less special attack is another option...
Honestly, every RP set will probably be good, whether it's physical or special. But, I feel like the most common set, involving RP, will be something like: RP, EQ/Precipe, Overheat, DClaw/SE.
For RP/SD sets, I'm really not sure what people will run. Obviously you'll have RP, SD and one of the ground moves, but the 4th spot has a shit-ton of competition. The set I first ran involved DClaw, but I found myself getting walled by Lugia and Ho-Oh. Stone Edge is also good, but the rise of Gira-O lately turns me off to it. And with Fire Punch, you're still getting walled by Ho-Oh, and you're also set-up bait for the dragons.
First off, Rayquaza has not ran bulk and will not ever run bulk (although a Bulk Up set would be super based). Also, not a single calc shows Ray or Mence boosted, which kinda makes the walling thing a bit moot to say the least. Most of the Megas you mentioned do have an extreme opportunity cost just to even soft check Ray or Mence, preventing any other Megas from being used, and seem highly specialized (is physically defensive Mega TTar even a thing?) when you can run a different Mega such as Gengar or Mewtwo and not have all your momentum come crashing down on you. SD MegaRay can absolutely demolish most of these checks after a single boost:
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 160-190 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Aggron Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 230-272 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 373-439 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
moonblast OHKOs don't really need to say that
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 373-439 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Foul Play OHKOs but w/e
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 354-418 (87.8 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 235-277 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 162-192 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO (ok this is pretty awesome that bulk)
+2 252 Atk Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 250-295 (57.6 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not bad)
0 Atk Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 146-172 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Frankly, out of all of these Mega Slowbro (that bulk) and Rhypherior are the only decent checks, and they kinda get destroyed by PDon (though this could be not that useful since PDon wrecks everything), and I really hope you weren't being serious about Avalugg being a check, the thing's PU for a reason.
you may have a point with rayquaza, but i only stated that these pokemon are checks to it, which means if they are both in at the same time or they get a free switch.
mega salamence on the other hand doesnt 2HKO any of the mons that i mentioned at +1 while all of them OHKO or 2HKO so there was no point in even posting the calcs for a boosted mence.
realistically the moment you see salamence switch in, you should switch to the counter so mence would only be able to get in 1 dragon dance at max.
you may have a point with rayquaza, but i only stated that these pokemon are checks to it, which means if they are both in at the same time or they get a free switch.
mega salamence on the other hand doesnt 2HKO any of the mons that i mentioned at +1 while all of them OHKO or 2HKO so there was no point in even posting the calcs for a boosted mence.
realistically the moment you see salamence switch in, you should switch to the counter so mence would only be to get in 1 dragon dance at max.
Well most of the time Ray is going to come in on something it can set up in front of, which is a lot of things due to Delta Stream and its actually impressive bulk, and set up as you switch to your check, rendering it unable to do its job. The thing is you're most likely going to sack something in order to put these checks into a slightly favorable situation, something that balanced teams or stall doesn't really like to do ever. It also doesn't help that some of these checks are pretty much PDon bait 85% of the time, which is significantly worse. From what I've seen, the only sure-fire check to MegaRay is some variants of Max Speed Support Arceus (something that will probably be more common with MegaRay and Refresh Megamence threatening the heck out of them), and sometimes Lugia, which loses to SD Ray if SR is up.
Well most of the time Ray is going to come in on something it can set up in front of, which is a lot of things due to Delta Stream and its actually impressive bulk, and set up as you switch to your check, rendering it unable to do its job. The thing is you're most likely going to sack something in order to put these checks into a slightly favorable situation, something that balanced teams or stall doesn't really like to do ever. It also doesn't help that some of these checks are pretty much PDon bait 85% of the time, which is significantly worse. From what I've seen, the only sure-fire check to MegaRay is some variants of Max Speed Support Arceus (something that will probably be more common with MegaRay and Refresh Megamence threatening the heck out of them), and sometimes Lugia, which loses to SD Ray if SR is up.
defensively oriented teams are going to have status moves. i cant ever see ray up for free. if ray were to switch in on a pokemon that it would usually be able to set up on, said pokemon could run a move like toxic or will o wisp.
this either forces ray to fight crippled or forces it to go for damage instead of setting up. if it sets up it gets crippled. if it goes for damage, said pokemon would probably be able to live one hit and cripple it anyway. after ray kills said pokemon you switch in a pokemon that you are confident that can beat mega ray.
the majority of the pokemon that i use on my teams have some phazing or status moves so no opposing pokemon can simply set up and sweep.
defensively oriented teams are going to have status moves. i cant ever see ray up for free. if ray were to switch in on a pokemon that it would usually be able to set up on, said pokemon could run a move like toxic or will o wisp.
this either forces ray to fight crippled or forces it to go for damage instead of setting up. if it sets up it gets crippled. if it goes for damage, said pokemon would probably be able to live one hit and cripple it anyway. after ray kills said pokemon you switch in a pokemon that you are confident that can beat mega ray.
the majority of the pokemon that i use on my teams have some phazing or status moves so no opposing pokemon can simply set up and sweep.
If you choose to hamper a sweeper via toxic or damage with a mon that doesn't check it (say you toxic a ray with blissey as it sets up) then you are forfeting the ability to keep your core intact against that sweeper and there will be holes in your core that the offensive team can take care of. The cost of stopping a sweeper in such manners will often outshine the benefit and that's why every stall team needs proper switch ins to stuff. Often it's very tempting to think in a way of trading mons for mons when playing, but for stall it's very different since you will need certain mons more and the more mons you have, the stronger you will be against any threat. Offense is usually fine with material reduction if it's at the benefit of weakening a core. You are always going to need proper checks for everything relevant when building a defensive teams because of this.
If you choose to hamper a sweeper via toxic or damage with a mon that doesn't check it (say you toxic a ray with blissey as it sets up) then you are forfeting the ability to keep your core intact against that sweeper and there will be holes in your core that the offensive team can take care of. The cost of stopping a sweeper in such manners will often outshine the benefit and that's why every stall team needs proper switch ins to stuff. Often it's very tempting to think in a way of trading mons for mons when playing, but for stall it's very different since you will need certain mons more and the more mons you have, the stronger you will be against any threat. Offense is usually fine with material reduction if it's at the benefit of weakening a core. You are always going to need proper checks for everything relevant when building a defensive teams because of this.
things like this needs prediction. if i think the person will set up, use toxic. if i think that the person will go for damage, switch out. if i use blissey to toxic ray and it sets up instead that would mean that blissey is still alive and from there i could switch to an appropriate check. in the end, ray is put on a timer continuously taking damage and i have a pokemon on the field that can kill it off.
things like this needs prediction. if i think the person will set up, use toxic. if i think that the person will go for damage, switch out. if i use blissey to toxic ray and it sets up instead that would mean that blissey is still alive and from there i could switch to an appropriate check. in the end, ray is put on a timer continuously taking damage and i have a pokemon on the field that can kill it off.
No, that's not prediction. If I go for an SD with ray on blissey I will force you to sack a mon the turn after. You have left a toxic but I broke a hole in your core. You merely stopped a sweeper from killing your entire team. If you have an appropriate check you should go to it, and if you don't have a good check to a sweeper then I can assure you that you will lose to said sweeper no matter good your "predictions" will be.
When all Ditto start running 0 happiness I'll run Return. See the problem here, this is a stupid argument, besides anyone so lazy that they use Ditto won't take the effort to input 0 happiness.
Anyways, what are your guy's thoughts on Air Balloon Dialga? I've been using it on basically every team of mine. The best SR setter, serves as a really solid clutch check to the dragons, and also fucks with PDon.
Dialga @ Air Balloon
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
Anyways, what are your guy's thoughts on Air Balloon Dialga? I've been using it on basically every team of mine. The best SR setter, serves as a really solid clutch check to the dragons, and also fucks with PDon.
Lol idk. I haven't used Air Balloon Dialga but Overheat/Fire would still do a ton to it. I'm just using Lugia to deal with PGroudon right now. Btw I'm assuming you guys are using PO? because there isn't a ladder in PS as far as I know.
Lol idk. I haven't used Air Balloon Dialga but Overheat/Fire would still do a ton to it. I'm just using Lugia to deal with PGroudon right now. Btw I'm assuming you guys are using PO? because there isn't a ladder in PS as far as I know.
Yeah, all the fire moves do about 60%, but you can still get up rocks and, most of the time, get off a Draco Meteor to really hurt PDon. But, I don't use it mainly to check PDon, that's just one of the things it does.
Most of us use Pokemon Showdown. We don't have a ladder, but we just use customs and ask people in the room if they want to play.
Yeah, all the fire moves do about 60%, but you can still get up rocks and, most of the time, get off a Draco Meteor to really hurt PDon. But, I don't use it mainly to check PDon, that's just one of the things it does.
Most of us use Pokemon Showdown. We don't have a ladder, but we just use customs and ask people in the room if they want to play.
