[on site] The guide to D/P Uber Battling

[DevilinDenial]

Bronzong has not been used by me, however in Ubers it walls a lot of shit, and let's not forget it can Hypnosis, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Light Screen/Reflect, ReStalk and Explosion, plus 76 Speed is like Death to all with Gyro Ball. Pressure's a bitch, though. All calculations are considering that you're max in that stat. Otherwise you should get out.

The Uber Walls

Lugia: Let's admit it, Lugia is as walled as Bronzong. Bronzong can Explode if neccessary, and/or put Lugia to sleep.
Giratina: If you're hit with a Critical Hit, Choice Banded Shadow Claw and you have Leftovers, it won't KO you unless it CHs again. It can also be put to Sleep
Deoxys-D: lol that's funny. Toxic Bronzong sounds nice right now. Or Hypnosis.

The Uber sweepers

Mewtwo: Choice Specs Mewtwo with Focus Blast/Thunder does 47-55%, in other words, it's walled.
Deoxys-A: 2HKOs with Focus Blast/Thunder, but otherwise can't get past you.
Rayquaza: Resists everything short of Overheat and other Fire moves, and only Overheat and Fire Blast even 2HKO.
Kyogre: Bronzong can't even joke with it.
Groudon: Most of the time has a Fire move, but non Swords Dancing ones are walled so badly.
Ho-oh: lol see Heatran
Palkia: If you're in the Sand you'll be 3HKOed.
Dialga: Can't hit you with anything but CS sets, and you can EarthQuake or put it to sleep.
Darkrai: ReStalking variations beat Darkrai BAD.
Latios and Latias: Most of the time you'll beat it by simply attacking.
Manaphy: WTF Manaphy?

Other Ubers

Arceus: Only certain types can face down Bronzong.
Mew: You'll beat non-BP variations.
Deoxys and Deoxys-S:

Non Uber Pokemon in ubers

Blissey: Blissey rarely has defense or has no HP in Ubers, it is 2HKOed.
Metagross: Can't get past you. Ever.
Heatran: lol see Ho-Oh
Tyranitar: Sets up valuable Sand for you. Nonetheless, you aren't going to beat it.
Heracross: No chance either.
Ninjask: Stealth Rock is set up, Gyro Ball OHKOs.
Skarmory: It's like Lugia.
Forretress: It's like Lugia.
Magnezone: No chance at beating this, unless you pack EarthQuake.
Weavile: Completely walled by you.
Shedinja: If you're using this with Sandstream it's dead lol. Stealth Rock, etc.
Jirachi: Walled by you, can be put to sleep as well.

I didn't include the other Weather bastards, they're quite irrellevent.

 

[Great Sage]

Hmm, I'll write a Bronzong synopsis, but do note that Bronzong's primary form of attacking, Gyro Ball, only has 8 PP. Also, Bronzong needs absolute maximum Special Defense and HP to consider doing the stuff you mentioned. That detracts significantly from its offensive capabilities, and that equals prime setup fodder if you don't have Explosion. Also, Bronzong IMO must have Toxic in Ubers.

 

[Jibaku]

Added Bronzong to the threat list and pokemon list

 

[Great Sage]

Also, Metagross countering Bronzong was not a typo. Bronzong probably needs maximum Special Defense and HP to take on Ubers, and CBed Metagross Meteor Mash does 37% minimum (according to Jibbles) on that spread. Even if Bronzong has Earthquake, it's probably a 4HKO, since Bronzong can't afford to invest Attack in Ubers.

 

[DevilinDenial]

However, Metagross is walled by ReStalking variations. I understand your point, however.

 

[Great Sage]

No, it doesn't. After one Meteor Mash Attack boost, Bronzong won't be able to perpetually Rest; in fact, Meteor Mash without an Attack boost is a 3HKO unless it deals very near minimum damage all 3 times.

 

[Sovereign]

Some things I thought should be added imo:

1. Skarmory isn't much of a threat anymore. Everyone found out that forretress pretty much puts skarmory to shame with rapid spin.

2. Dialga is almost a perfect counter to kyogre with the right ev spread etc.

3. May be obvious, but prioritize stealth rock over spikes when given the option of the two.

4. Shedinja isn't much of a threat either anymore. It's rare now to face anyone what doesn't have neither spikes/sr nor a SE hitting counter to sheddy.

5. Lugia counters ninjask by whirlwinding it. Also extreme speed arceus can do the job.

6. Don't trust meta as a reliable jirachi counter. If the jirachi is in rain, meta will die before jirachi.

7. You should also note that deoxsy-a has no reliable counter. Metagross and latias and such are only good for revenge kills. I had a pretty lengthy with sarenji before and we came to that at least 2 certain pokes are needed to be sure to counter deoxys-a.

8. If you haven't noted this yet: giratina + forretress is one of the deadliest combos in the game. Not only do they significantly cover each other's weaknesses, they also successfully set up spikes/sr.

9. Groudon has enough defense to call it a tyranitar counter.

10. Heatran is a good heatran counter.

 

[West]

Registeel should be mentioned imo. It can survive a non-CS Drizzle Water Spout from a 252 Modest Kyogre.

 

[Great Sage]

@Jebroni: I run Forretress+Giratina on my uberstall team, and it did very well against almost everyone I played, including Jibaku and SePh, so I don't doubt you on that. I hesitate to call Heatran its own counter, though, because while it is true that they can easily absorb each other's Overheats, an Earth Power would be very much disliked, even though Earth Power should see little practical use in Ubers.

@hp [leaves]: And what else does Registeel do? Just because it can take attacks doesn't mean it's useful.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Although it was mentioned earlier in this thread, Shiftry should definitely get a mention. Although there are more useful chlorophyllers, Shiftry gets the advantage of a chlorophyll'd explosion ^__^

 

[Jibaku]

Some things I thought should be added imo:

1. Skarmory isn't much of a threat anymore. Everyone found out that forretress pretty much puts skarmory to shame with rapid spin.
Actually, the main reason to use Forry in ubers is Toxic spikes, which worked quite successfully when Great Sage used one against me

2. Dialga is almost a perfect counter to kyogre with the right ev spread etc.
Calm Mind versions beat Dialga switching in unless you use Roar/Psych Up

3. May be obvious, but prioritize stealth rock over spikes when given the option of the two.

4. Shedinja isn't much of a threat either anymore. It's rare now to face anyone what doesn't have neither spikes/sr nor a SE hitting counter to sheddy.
Still putting it up there because sometimes SR/Spikes can get cleared out before Sheddy comes in.

5. Lugia counters ninjask by whirlwinding it. Also extreme speed arceus can do the job.

6. Don't trust meta as a reliable jirachi counter. If the jirachi is in rain, meta will die before jirachi.
Calm Minded Thunder is a 3HKO on Metagross, unless Jirachi puts in an insane amount of SA EVs (uhh like 252 Modest or something)

7. You should also note that deoxsy-a has no reliable counter. Metagross and latias and such are only good for revenge kills. I had a pretty lengthy with sarenji before and we came to that at least 2 certain pokes are needed to be sure to counter deoxys-a.
Spiritomb counters Deoxys-A. Immune to Sashcounter, has Sucker Punch and Pursuit, can switch in quite easily barring a Specs Thunder.

8. If you haven't noted this yet: giratina + forretress is one of the deadliest combos in the game. Not only do they significantly cover each other's weaknesses, they also successfully set up spikes/sr.
I've seen this in action already

9. Groudon has enough defense to call it a tyranitar counter.
Yes

10. Heatran is a good heatran counter.
You can't be a good counter to your own kind

 

[Lugztina]

I think Clefable should also be used and included in uber battles along with Yanmega. Clefable has the magic guard ability and can be useful since most ubers attack on the special side. Yanmega should also be included because along with Speed Boost, it has hypnosis, which is useful and less riskier than to sweep Scarfogre than with an adamant Arceus since he can learn protect and the ability works for each turn.

 

[Jibaku]

I think Clefable should also be used and included in uber battles along with Yanmega. Clefable has the magic guard ability and can be useful since most ubers attack on the special side. Yanmega should also be included because along with Speed Boost, it has hypnosis, which is useful and less riskier than to sweep Scarfogre than with an adamant Arceus since he can learn protect and the ability works for each turn.

1) There's Blissey for the special side. Cleffy gets 2HKOed by so many things in ubers it isn't funny.
2) Me and Great Sage talked about Yanmega a while ago, and decided that it won't work very well. It is weak to Stealth Rock, walled completely by Blissey (unless you use Reversal). It really only beats up Mewtwo, Darkrai and Rayquaza (HP Ice), and nothing else. You can only switch into a CBed Earthquake or Close Combat. If you ask why Ninjask is there, it's because Skarm/Lugia aren't as common as Bliss is, and being able to BP the boosts beats Yanmega's failed attempt to sweep in ubers
3) What?

 

[Sovereign]

Some things I thought should be added imo:

1. Skarmory isn't much of a threat anymore. Everyone found out that forretress pretty much puts skarmory to shame with rapid spin.
Actually, the main reason to use Forry in ubers is Toxic spikes, which worked quite successfully when Great Sage used one against me
The reason why forretress is used is more because of rapid spin. If it didn't know that move, you would be screwed from toxic spikes. I would surely defend my own team before dealing any offense setups on the opponent.

2. Dialga is almost a perfect counter to kyogre with the right ev spread etc.
Calm Mind versions beat Dialga switching in unless you use Roar/Psych Up
And calm mind versions beat blissey too, who has a much lesser chance of taking it down than dialga, but the former was mentioned over the latter.

3. May be obvious, but prioritize stealth rock over spikes when given the option of the two.

4. Shedinja isn't much of a threat either anymore. It's rare now to face anyone what doesn't have neither spikes/sr nor a SE hitting counter to sheddy.
Still putting it up there because sometimes SR/Spikes can get cleared out before Sheddy comes in.
Well, if for some reason the sr/spikes can't be cleared, that is almost a free poke down automatically. Imo too much risk is involved.

5. Lugia counters ninjask by whirlwinding it. Also extreme speed arceus can do the job.

6. Don't trust meta as a reliable jirachi counter. If the jirachi is in rain, meta will die before jirachi.
Calm Minded Thunder is a 3HKO on Metagross, unless Jirachi puts in an insane amount of SA EVs (uhh like 252 Modest or something)
Um, that would be under very technical conditions. A single calm mind thunder can deal extremely close to 50% damage to metagross (depends on ev spread, but jirachi only needs a bit over 100 sp. attack evs to threaten 210 hp/160 sp def metagross to 2ko (~43%). In other words, even the most slightly damaged meta can't stop jirachi anymore. Also, jirachi has that nice serene grace to add to the odds of meta taking advantage of it.

7. You should also note that deoxsy-a has no reliable counter. Metagross and latias and such are only good for revenge kills. I had a pretty lengthy with sarenji before and we came to that at least 2 certain pokes are needed to be sure to counter deoxys-a.
Spiritomb counters Deoxys-A. Immune to Sashcounter, has Sucker Punch and Pursuit, can switch in quite easily barring a Specs Thunder.
Hmm, that does look viable, but why didn't you list this as a counter then?

8. If you haven't noted this yet: giratina + forretress is one of the deadliest combos in the game. Not only do they significantly cover each other's weaknesses, they also successfully set up spikes/sr.
I've seen this in action already
Yea....which is why I suggested this for the guide.........

9. Groudon has enough defense to call it a tyranitar counter.
Yes

10. Heatran is a good heatran counter.
You can't be a good counter to your own kind
I don't see anywhere that it can't be (ie. stone edge gyarados is comfortable switching into another gyarados.) As sage already pointed out, only earth power does significant damage to heatran, but 90 base power ground move on heatran looks pointless.

 

[Jibaku]

10. Heatran is a good heatran counter.
You can't be a good counter to your own kind
I don't see anywhere that it can't be (ie. stone edge gyarados is comfortable switching into another gyarados.) As sage already pointed out, only earth power does significant damage to heatran, but 90 base power ground move on heatran looks pointless.

Well
Stone Edge Gyara can't counter another Stone Edge Gyara, and if Heatran isn't using Earth Power, how will it counter its own kind?

 

[Sovereign]

Well, most likely heatran will be having a choice item. If your heatran comes into their fire attack, that will force them to switch. (Of course, there is that odd of heatran not having a choice item, which is why I only said it was a good but not perfect counter).

 

[Metalgross]

Wow, this is an amazing guide; thanks for putting all the time into making this. I've been inspired to make an uber team of my own.

 

[cornflake]

Deoxys-A: It had the misfortune to have been born with pitiful defenses almost equaling to that of Carvanha’s. But laugh at its miniscule as much as you want,


There's a word missing here between miniscule and as. Should probably be defenses, or something like that.

Great guide by the way. I usually stray away from ubers, but I may just make one on Shoddy.

 

[Jibaku]

Edited Mewtwo and Deoxys

 

[cornflake]

Have a Rapid Spinner. Spinning helps you get your Ho-oh, Lugia and Rayquaza into the field. However, in the Uber metagame, the only Pokemon that should be considered for spinning is Forretress, and in the Uber metagame, Forretress doesn’t do much besides help physical walling and soaking up Outrages, and possibly Exploding.



Not a typo or anything, but isn't Forry valuable in ubers for setting up the crippling Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock? It just seems he's more utility than a big physical wall.

 

[Jibaku]

Yea I really need to make an uber stall guide. All I need is to find the time to do that.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Kabutops should be mentioned in the spinners section in my opinion. I think he is the fastest spinner in the game during rainfall.

 

[Great Sage]

Yea I really need to make an uber stall guide. All I need is to find the time to do that.

Well, I'm working on a stall guide overall... Well, I will be at some point; I have a horrible procrastination habit.

 

[cornflake]

Latias: Unlike her brother Latios, Latias focuses on the defensive aspects. Latias possesses a base 80 Hit Points, a base 90 Defense, and base 130 Special Defense. This may seem small compared the others, but Latias’ trump card is her mystical item: Soul Dew. Soul Dew boosts her Special Defense and Special Attack stats by roughly 50%, making it a very deadly sweeper as well. Latias is capable of holding her own against tough attackers such as Kyogre, even if she meets an Ice Beam from 438 Special Attack, and dish back significant with Thunder and Grass Knot. Like many other Psychics in the Uber metagame, Latias has the ability to Recover her lost hit points to make her even a tougher wall. She is, however, prone to Metagross’ Pursuit if she switches out due to her base 80 Hit Points and base 90 Defense, and Meteor Mash if she stays in. She is best known as a special wall that has a considerable amount of offense and speed, which is what separates her from Blissey.

Missing word here. Should read: dish back significant damage with Thunder or Grass Knot.

Darkrai: Base 90 Attack, base 125 Speed and base 135 Special Attack; its stats might make it look like an inferior Mewtwo, but Darkrai is far from that. His ability to Dark Void the opponent into slumberland is one thing that separates it from Mewtwo. The other thing is his Dark typing, which gives it an edge in Uber battling by providing the STAB in Dark Pulse. As one may know many Ubers are Psychics and thus despise getting Dark Pulsed in the face. Darkrai, like Mewtwo, has virtually have no counters. Any sleep talker can get Taunted. Blissey fears Focus Punch and cannot beat a Darkrai with Substitute and Calm Mind unless it has Seismic Toss or, if one is lucky, Psych Up/Calm Mind, and the great walls such as Lugia fear Dark Pulse. The best one may have against Darkrai is to let something like Dialga to absorb Dark Void, and then run off to a Fighting type Arceus to completely stop Darkrai.

Odd wording here. Change to: Darkrai, like Mewtwo, has virtually no counters.

 

[AJC]

need mention of of rare physcial or even mixed jirachis which beat up Blisseys expecting any pure special set

also 60% par chance of body slam is nice when Groudon thinks it can come in on T-wave or Thunder