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[on site] The guide to D/P Uber Battling
- Thread starter Jibaku
- Start date
stalling in ubers you would have to use blissey ....
On Ninjask: what is the viability of a Choice Band version?
EDIT: blah was thinking X-Scissor hit Lugia super-effective for some reason it's only 28% - 33% neutral =(
EDIT: blah was thinking X-Scissor hit Lugia super-effective for some reason it's only 28% - 33% neutral =(
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
No, stalling Blisseys usually carry Toxic and not Calm Mind, and therefore would be incapable of beating Calm Mind Jirachi. A physical Jirachi would never be capable of dealing particularly catastrophic damage on Blissey anyways; remember that even Uber Blisseys carry Defense EVs.
If you needed a fast, fragile attacker, you should probably be using Deoxys-A anyways.
Just a minor question to all uber battlers: Is Icy Wind still a 'chic' move for Blissey in uberplay? I remember it being used somewhat in ADV ubers.
With I think the exception of Jebroni, every Blissey I've seen used Calm Mind, meaning it would use a real offensive move like Ice Beam. Calm Mind Blissey is really the only Blissey that doesn't completely suck this gen, as far as I've seen so far (it's only "pretty bad").
Didya know that since no one uses Lugia that a SubSDSalac Groudon pretty much sweeps the entire metagame. It's pretty amazing.
I mean, fucking Giratina can't even fucking break the fucking subs!!!
I mean, fucking Giratina can't even fucking break the fucking subs!!!
Well DClaw hits Lati@s and Palkia harder, so Giratina isn't gonna be switch in bait every time. Blissey isn't gonna deal with Latias forever.
It's more like this
Pulse advantages:
1) Dragon Pulse breaks Groudon's Substitutes
2) Very slight chance of 3HKOing an opposing Giratina, although you might want to scrap that since Pressure leaves you with only 8 PPs
3) Hits Mewtwo/Darkrai harder-not going to matter much though. Hasty Darkrai/Two takes almost the same from Dragon Claw anyways
Claw advantages:
1) Latios and Latias take harder from it. Latios can take over 80% from it.
2) Palkia takes a load from it-up to 71% if it's Hasty
3) You stand a better chance against Ho-oh. Dragon Pulse does lol to Ho-oh's base 154 SDef and Pressure kills it in the long run.
4) It obviously does more damage to Blissey. This, I note, is a very nice advantage, since WoW + Dragon Claw will force Blissey to Softboil constantly, whereas she laughs at Dragon Pulse
5) 24 PP > 16 PP
Qwilfish deserves a mention in the 'Swift Swimmers' section of the non-ubers. With access to Destiny Bond and Explosion, he's good as a sacrificial way of dealing with many threats, especially with the rain set up. Good physical attack combined with Waterfall and rain can do a fair bit of damage, and he has Toxic Spikes too. Ice Beam also deserves a mention for Rayquaza switch-ins, although it isn't likely to KO him it can hurt him significantly. Yes he won't be outspeeding a lot of things without the rain, and yes he's never likely to survive more than a turn or two.
Isn't Wynaut also considered an Uber? It has the same moves as Wobbuffette, just lower stats.
EDIT: Also, not to start arguments/problems, but I really don't like the fact that Manaphy is uber, he doesn't seem that uber =/
EDIT: Also, not to start arguments/problems, but I really don't like the fact that Manaphy is uber, he doesn't seem that uber =/
But how about Wynaut? Doesn't he have the same moves as his evoloution? Just wondering lol =D
Wynaut : Wobbuffet :: Phione : Manaphy
Its lowered stats make it absolute garbage. Even Wobbuffet isn't THAT good in uber-play since everything hits much harder. Wynaut, which probably wouldn't that broken in OU, would get totally murdered in ubers (not that uber viability is a prerequisite for uber status, mind you); with its lower defenses, it's not taking many decent hits before it dies. I've tried Wynaut in ADV UU and without good prediction, it doesn't do much. Many things would 2HKO it making Encore + Counter/MC risky.
People would probably still bitch about it if it were allowed in OU though.
Its lowered stats make it absolute garbage. Even Wobbuffet isn't THAT good in uber-play since everything hits much harder. Wynaut, which probably wouldn't that broken in OU, would get totally murdered in ubers (not that uber viability is a prerequisite for uber status, mind you); with its lower defenses, it's not taking many decent hits before it dies. I've tried Wynaut in ADV UU and without good prediction, it doesn't do much. Many things would 2HKO it making Encore + Counter/MC risky.
People would probably still bitch about it if it were allowed in OU though.
Could Arcanine work well in Ubers?
It gets Dragon Claw and Extreamspeed as well as having decent attacking stats and Intimidate is a bonus. 95 Speed means it outspeeds some important stuff as well.
My other thought was Moltres but between Ho-oh and Heatran it's outclassed in every way (U-Turn?).
It gets Dragon Claw and Extreamspeed as well as having decent attacking stats and Intimidate is a bonus. 95 Speed means it outspeeds some important stuff as well.
My other thought was Moltres but between Ho-oh and Heatran it's outclassed in every way (U-Turn?).
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
First, you mean Dragon Pulse. Anyways, Fire is a pretty bad attacking type in Ubers, and while Arcanine's attacking stats are decent, it simply doesn't have enough of any one. Stuff that is incredibly common like Giratina and Kyogre make it sob, and aside from Intimidate, lol Fire Arceus outclasses it entirely.
Shiftry is a cool Pokemon in ubers.
It gets STAB Dark Pulse (and can Nasty Plot) on the special side to hit Psychics, especially Lati@s.
It gets STAB Faint Attack (and can Swords Dance) to go physical.
Fake Out / Quick Attack can have a few uses (not very many).
It resists Dark Pulse rather than being weak to it, and can hit Darkrai with Brick Break or Solarbeam (depending on whether you are physical or special).
It's also a lot faster, so it can outspeed Choice Scarf dudes in the Sun.
That brings up another swift swimer to my question, Seaking. Seaking is kind of like a retarded floatzel with 28 less base attack, and a lack of good physical moves for coverage(aka Icefang and brick break) but it gets two things floatzel doesn't have, Aquatail (waterfall, but floatzel aso gets it) and megahorn. but that's about all it gets over him.... Is he considerable?
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
@Obi: Shiftry was added quite a while ago.
@TheMantyke: Seaking is definitely not worth mentioning. It needs to invest Speed EVs to reach ~220 to outrun all Deoxys-A after a Swift Swim boost, and as you said is a retarded Floatzel (Aqua Tail is inferior to Waterfall, especially in rain, where quick Pokemon will get the flinch chance). 92 base Attack is nothing to write home about, and the chief counters to physical Pokemon, such as Lugia and Giratina, lol at Megahorn.
@TheMantyke: Seaking is definitely not worth mentioning. It needs to invest Speed EVs to reach ~220 to outrun all Deoxys-A after a Swift Swim boost, and as you said is a retarded Floatzel (Aqua Tail is inferior to Waterfall, especially in rain, where quick Pokemon will get the flinch chance). 92 base Attack is nothing to write home about, and the chief counters to physical Pokemon, such as Lugia and Giratina, lol at Megahorn.
I'm a bit inexperienced in Ubers play, but one thing I did notice is that Dugtrio is given a small mention on Deoxys-A but isn't actually listed on the non-uber pokemon list. It probably deserves a mention there, since as mentioned before it can kill Deoxys-A, in addition to revenge-killing anything that's low enough (and slower). It can also revenge-kill anything that's locked into Choice Thunder.
Steel Arceus is sometimes used in ubers (it's even mentioned on the Arceus description). Not the safest switch into TTar (it's 2HKO'd by CB EQ), but it can come in safely on it's other attacks and, as it is an uber that resists rock, it should be mentioned for completion's sake at least.
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
Honestly, Steel Arceus isn't really good. SePh tells me that Dugtrio isn't particularly good, and I agree; just about the only Choice locked Thunder that exist is from Kyogre (and maybe Deoxys-A, but Dugtrio deals with that anyways), and it's pretty hard to use besides. On the upside, it could pick off a Blissey, Dialga, or Metagross...
Dugtrio is an amazing Pokemon imo.
There are tons of Specs / Scarf Pokemon who lock themselves into Thunder, which is good. Dugtrio can catch Dialga for something along the lines of 99% ( >=( ), has Sucker Punch to KO Deoxys-A, and can Pursuit for Lati@s (yes, I use Pursuit Dugtrio). If Blissey doesn't have Ice Beam, you can kill it, opening the gates to a special sweep from a versatile (as in not just Dragon Pulse as the attack) Latias sweep. If Blissey does have Ice Beam with 249 SpAtk (max without nature), it has a 54% chance to OHKO a 4 SpDef Dugtrio, which are fairly even odds.
I use it with Magnezone and DD LO Outrage Rayquaza. It and Magnezone get rid of any annoying Steels (and Magnezone sets up the Reflect / Light Screen to let Rayquaza survive long enough to DD), and then it's just Outrage sweep.
There are tons of Specs / Scarf Pokemon who lock themselves into Thunder, which is good. Dugtrio can catch Dialga for something along the lines of 99% ( >=( ), has Sucker Punch to KO Deoxys-A, and can Pursuit for Lati@s (yes, I use Pursuit Dugtrio). If Blissey doesn't have Ice Beam, you can kill it, opening the gates to a special sweep from a versatile (as in not just Dragon Pulse as the attack) Latias sweep. If Blissey does have Ice Beam with 249 SpAtk (max without nature), it has a 54% chance to OHKO a 4 SpDef Dugtrio, which are fairly even odds.
I use it with Magnezone and DD LO Outrage Rayquaza. It and Magnezone get rid of any annoying Steels (and Magnezone sets up the Reflect / Light Screen to let Rayquaza survive long enough to DD), and then it's just Outrage sweep.