Social Online Dating

Women put in at least an hours worth of effort every single day to look good, be it through makeup, cleaning their hair, or dressing well. Contrast this with the fact that you wear fucking cargo shorts and a super mario t-shirt, probably don't even have a skin-care routine, and don't bother to take good pictures for Tinder. In the west no one puts effort into anything anymore, you are literally spoonfed by young Chinese workers making everything for you. You don't have hobbies, you don't have skills, you consume all day without giving back to the world, which could be as easy as just making yourself more presentable.

The hard part, though, is having the political wits to see the plight of the average woman, this is what i*cels don't understand. It is harder for women to live in the world. Walking home alone is harder, dressing like a boy is harder, having a conversation with male superiors (workplace or otherwise) is harder. Women don't want to see someone who spends their days eating cheetos and not bathing, they'd do it too if they could, but the social stigma puts pressure on them to do better, and they really appreciate seeing you do the same. If you go around believing women have it easier you're not going to treat them properly.

Changing who you are fundamentally, as in your thoughts, political opinions, habits, hobbies, and desires, should be seen as a good thing and it's necessary if you want people to like you.
 
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McCoolDude

Just a fat shark
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Yeah, the guy who spent six months cutting soda from his diet and starting a regular exercise routine so he can improve his looks and put his best foot forward, bought a camera and tripod specifically so he could take a few decent pictures of himself for the specific purpose of online dating, and is generally making the effort to be more outwardly friendly with people isn't doing any self-reflection.
These are exceptionally low standards for effort. This isn't meant to be a dig at you, it's just that being an "acceptable" match takes a lot of work in many areas. Cutting out soda and getting exercise are good things, but there may be more corrections needed that you haven't identified yet.


I personally have had a lot of success with Tinder.
BP you are built like a Greek god and therefore don't count. (I kid)


To the men struggling with online dating - I can only offer my own experiences from like 8 years ago. The biggest things I did to increase people messaging me (back before tinder was a thing) was to style my hair properly and have someone else choose my photos. You have massive blindspots to yourself, and will usually choose photos that present yourself in a way that you are used to seeing, which may not actually be how others perceive you. Also, try to look genuinely happy - not just smiling, but beaming.

If you're following the standards of being a reasonably attractive person (clean, proper dental hygiene, clothes look good and fit, hair is styled), those little tips might help you. If you aren't doing those things... Start doing those things.
 
Regarding many of the comments made above, there are good reasons to dislike dating apps.

Tinder potentially violates the privacy of users by breaking the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation). While this is an EU law that doesn't apply in the US, you should still feel uncomfortable.
"Interestingly enough, a recent investigation from the Norwegian Consumer Council (NCC) suggested several dating apps such as Grindr, OkCupid, and Tinder might be breaking GDPR. The investigation suggested nine out of ten of the most popular dating apps were transmitting data to ‘unexpected third-parties’ without seeking consent from users, potentially violating GDPR."
Source: https://telecoms.com/502259/tinder-comes-under-the-scope-of-irish-gdpr-watchdog/

As for the effect on the mental health of the user, it's bound to be terrible. The gender ratio on Tinder varies from year to year and depending on location, but from some quick google searching most sources put it around 75% male, which is not a good ratio for men seeking women. It's unclear exactly how the tinder algorithm works, but from what I can tell, how many people have swiped right on you previously affects how visible your profile will be in the future. With that being said, even at a surface level the user can see that Tinder is very superficial. It makes use of the same psychological hooks as gambling does. Apparently it was inspired by an experiment that made pigeons exhibit similar behaviour to gamblers.
Relevant articles:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...-experiment-transformed-pigeons-gamblers.html
https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/02/one-thing-dating-apps-will-give-you-sure-addiction

So the summary is that for an average man, Tinder and other dating apps are pretty much designed to make you feel like shit, then they will sell your data to shady third parties. I think this is a compelling case to not use them.

For the talk around mental health and real-life functioning, I generally like to stay out of these sorts of discussions because most people haven't done the research. What I can say is that there is statistical evidence that younger men are having a bad time finding sex right now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...icans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/
Furthermore, the sentiment that being a good, respectful person will result in sexual success is wrong. In fact dark triad personality traits are strongly associated with increased sexual success (Jonason et al., 2009). The solution to this problem isn't 'go woke', although I think there are good totally separate reasons to be more progressive. I would encourage people to stop attempting to moralise in this thread and instead see it as a widespread modern issue.
 
Male body standards are definitely crazy high on dating apps. I've seen a lot of fairly good looking men who do really well in person (with decent pictures too!) get like... 5-10 matches max after months of using the apps. And those matches just ghost after a message anyways. Your personality doesn't matter if girls don't find your pictures appealing.

I do fairly well on these apps but I'm not exactly representative of the average guy for many reasons that I don't want to discuss.

I highly recommend that the vast majority of men stay away from dating apps. Dating apps are easily the hardest place to meet women.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
The solution to this problem isn't 'go woke', although I think there are good totally separate reasons to be more progressive. I would encourage people to stop attempting to moralise in this thread and instead see it as a widespread modern issue.
sure darktriad=more sex, but the point for most isn't to succeed in banging as many ppl as possible but just to find one person to be in a relationship at a time. most het women really just want a safe dude that isn't volatile or threatening, vaguely woke nerd dick stock has never been higher than in 2020.
 
If you're having trouble with your online profiles feel free to DM me on discord [in my signature] and I could help you spruce it up. I feel like a good profile is really important in finding the right kind of people and as someone who has had a lot of success and feels fairly confident in structuring profiles, I wouldn't mind helping.
 
I always thought dark triad personality traits were generally seen as undesirable to have; even if it does mean more sex, it might mean you won’t be able to be in a long-term relationship. Also, I’ve felt like that due to the current situation, you either have to stay single/wait until the pandemic ends, or try online dating and go into (what it feels like to me) a rabbit hole. Unless the cons outweigh the pros and online dating generally isn’t worth it.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
What should people judge whether or not to date someone else on if not merit? What else is there?
Edit: I’ll come back to this more when I’m not phone posting at work. (Heyo, Mr.E actually has a real smartphone now.)
So, first and foremost physical attraction is by and large not a meritocracy. Much of it is genetic. Luckily for some of us, attraction is very subjective and heavily up to one's personal tastes -- even the ugliest mug is attractive to someone out there (the difficulty is finding that someone) -- but there are widely agreed upon desirable traits and the further away you are from conventional beauty standards, the tougher you're going to have it. Studies on the subject have well established how much tougher Asian men and Black women have it online dating. Well, you don't get to choose your skin color or ethnicity! If you're an especially short man, good fucking luck. If you're balding, too bad. Etc. None of these things speak to a person's character and most of these things don't particularly speak to one's genetic fitness either, as far as the excuse of finding the most fit partner with which to mate. A chiseled jawline and full hairline don't make you immune to having a peanut allergy.

Obviously, physical attraction has to be there as much as any other component of a fulfilling relationship, but I think a lot of people (especially women) are overly picky and will pass over anyone that they aren't immediately smitten with. Well, if you'd take the time to get to know someone, a person you're only ambivalent about at first can become attractive as their personality grows on you. You stop seeing them in a neutral light and start associating their appearance with the positive feelings they give you when they're around; you stop seeing their slightly crooked nose or buck teeth as an objective flaw and start thinking of them as cute little quirks that make your friend unique.

Online, these issues are exacerbated. A woman might give a shorter guy a chance in person because she's not busting out the fucking ruler and measuring him to exact specifications, she's just eyeballing it. Is he taller or shorter than me, and by how much? And ultimately, she'll either feel attraction toward this guy or not, irrespective of the exact value of his height and perhaps influenced by the guy's personality at this point. But online she's nitpicking to the extreme, perhaps in part out of entitlement (puke) and in part just to curate her otherwise overflowing inbox of messages (understandable, though misguided). Tone down the hard filters, take time to get to know people a little. Preferably in person. Lots of people look better in person than their mediocre portfolio might let off -- the camera adds ten pounds, after all -- and not everyone is good at communicating through text either. Online dating is not a fucking catalog for you to window shop for the perfect partner, it's just another means through which to meet someone.

At any rate, lots of people get into bad relationships, then stay there well past the point they should have left. They may have low self-esteem and think they don't deserve better for themselves. They're more afraid of being alone than being abused. They might be toxic jerks and the only person willing to put up with them is another toxic jerk. They might simply have major life incompatibilities but struggle to end the relationship with someone they otherwise still deeply love and respect. Who knows. But it happens a lot! Suffice to say that being a quality human is not a prerequisite to entering not maintaining a relationship.

even if you get into a super healthy one (which might not end up being the case) it won't fix any of your problems. itll just be a quick slap of duct tape. i often even used these relationships as excuses to let my mental health deteriorate. ive dealt w depression and anxiety for seemingly forever (also recently diagnosed w aspergers, for what its worth) and having had way too much time to reflect on this over quarantine ive recognized the impact (positive and negative) all of these have had on my relationships, both romantic and platonic, and in my life in general. ultimately, whatever progress i have made towards functioning like a healthy individual has come from myself and not others. im sure youre tired of hearing this but if you wanna be happy you gotta figure out how to generate that for yourself.
Yeah, I am tired of hearing it because it's kinda bullshit. Like, I ain't gonna discuss this stuff too deeply because it's kinda getting away from the topic but if a lack of relationships is the problem, finding a good relationship is literally the solution. We're a social species and connecting with one another is essential to our mental health, even if a lack of relationships doesn't physically kill us in the same way that lack of food would.

There are many things you can't go out and do alone. The things you can do alone are still more fun in good company, right? To be able to share an experience with someone, to be able to have a discussion, to have a captive audience is so much more fulfilling than just doing stuff in isolation. You sure as hell can't start a family by yourself, if that's your MO. I'm happy with who I am, I think I'm a pretty stand-up guy, but what's the point if I am so incapable of finding a single person willing to take time to notice the good in me that I know exists? Going through life alone and isolated from others feels so empty.

These are exceptionally low standards for effort. This isn't meant to be a dig at you, it's just that being an "acceptable" match takes a lot of work in many areas. Cutting out soda and getting exercise are good things, but there may be more corrections needed that you haven't identified yet.

To the men struggling with online dating - I can only offer my own experiences from like 8 years ago. The biggest things I did to increase people messaging me (back before tinder was a thing) was to style my hair properly and have someone else choose my photos. You have massive blindspots to yourself, and will usually choose photos that present yourself in a way that you are used to seeing, which may not actually be how others perceive you. Also, try to look genuinely happy - not just smiling, but beaming.

If you're following the standards of being a reasonably attractive person (clean, proper dental hygiene, clothes look good and fit, hair is styled), those little tips might help you. If you aren't doing those things... Start doing those things.
The average online profile is half a dozen near-identical selfies and no bio. The average person, at least in the U.S. where I live, is borderline obese. Etc. Whether or not the standards are low by some objective measure, so many people fail to meet them nonetheless. And you know what? A majority of those people are still in relationships! Why is it if someone isn't having success in dating, the answer is necessarily to become fucking Super(wo)man? What makes the unlucky folks like me unworthy of love without fucking trasncending our mortality when the average person falls ass backwards into relationships left and right? Oh, but "just be yourself." Right.

Personally, I've also ran dozens if not hundreds of photos through Photofeeler not to mention posted multiple online profile critiques elsewhere before. I'm not tooting my own horn extolling my virtues, I'm being as absolutely objective as one can possibly be with regard to this stuff: My photos rate well according to others, I depict myself in a wide variety of situations, my waistline and weight are better than average, and so on. There is just no logic to my sheer unsuccess. The only point to which it makes any sense is, of course, feelings don't actually operate on any sort of logic. You can't make people like you even if you look okay and do all the right things on paper.
 
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Mr.E,

i am sorry that your inability to link up with anyone has caused so much distress in your daily life. feeling isolated can be one of the most dynamic emotions.

of course desirability politics play a major role in dating apps since you're not seeing the person irl and you're simply swiping for shits and giggles. as a gay man, for example, i feel far more pressure to maintain a certain body type & upkeep a certain lifestyle because of social scripts--far more than straight men, anyway.

but, after all, you're not the only one subject to them. the pushback against your lamentations isn't because your position is unrelatable to many of us. it is because, despite the veneer of self-reflexivity and critical evaluation, you still decide to displace so much of the blame onto the women whom you can't obtain.
 

Luck O' the Irish

banned in dc
is a Tiering Contributor
Yeah, I am tired of hearing it because it's kinda bullshit. Like, I ain't gonna discuss this stuff too deeply because it's kinda getting away from the topic but if a lack of relationships is the problem, finding a good relationship is literally the solution. We're a social species and connecting with one another is essential to our mental health, even if a lack of relationships doesn't physically kill us in the same way that lack of food would.
fair and valid reasons to want a relationship. anyway: back to your struggles w finding a relationship. im gonna oversimplify and say there are 2 real components to entering a relationship- your overall appearance, and chemistry with another person. so with regards to the more superficial yet important self-presentation, you have provided a decent amount of details on the matter, and it looks like you put in a lot of effort. for your personal interactions the only data i have is like 50 of your posts on smogon dot com. and to be blunt: on these forums you come off to me as extremely abrasive and completely uninterested in what other ppl have to say. perhaps the irl Mr. E experience is completely different. nonetheless, the disconnect between your effort and lack of success appears to me to be a lack of self awareness in at least one of how well you actually self-present and interact w others. as i see it, either youre lying on smogon about all the prep you've done for yourself, or you are a part of the problem in your interactions with others irl. i dont know why you would bother with the former
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
im not an expert on this (or anything else) so take what i have to say w/ a large grain of salt

from my experience having close platonic friends is somewhat of a prerequisite to getting into a serious romantic relationship. it also gives you healthy human connection without the weird extra barriers that come with looking for someone to spend the rest of your life with.

additionally, good friends can give you advice that is likely both more accurate and more palatable than what we, a bunch of random people on a pokemon forum, can do.

if youre not sure what to do, i would recommend looking for smogon-related groups of non-pokemon games that you play. or im always down to play some mons (any meta) or minecraft (pm me @ city#0310). hope this is helpful
 

Urushifu

Banned deucer.
I'm not on tinder trying to find a long term relationship nor do I think the majority of people on it are either, so idk if that's the best place to look for one, besides looks are definitely not that important for people who are looking for a relationship compared to who you are as a person so perhaps reflect on why people you do end up matching with eventually stop messaging you instead of looking for reasons to blame women for valuing looks on a primarily hook up app
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
but, after all, you're not the only one subject to them. the pushback against your lamentations isn't because your position is unrelatable to many of us. it is because, despite the veneer of self-reflexivity and critical evaluation, you still decide to displace so much of the blame onto the women whom you can't obtain.
There's a point through all the introspection and self-improvement where, if nothing is working, blame necessarily has to be placed elsewhere. What could be wrong with me? Hmm, could be X. Let's try improving X... Nope, guess that wasn't it, still not having success. Maybe it's Y? ... Nope. Z? Still getting nowhere. Y'know, what is the problem isn't me? I'm busting my ass in pursuit of perfection but people who haven't put in that work, effort, who are objectively deficient in some matters of their own yet nobody seems to care in their case, are having no trouble. Maybe this self-improvement thing isn't all it's cracked up to be. (And I don't think it is. It's valid to the point that everyone should strive to put their best foot forward, but at the same time it also conveys a sense of never being good enough if you never take time to acknowledge your strengths and inherent value as a person.)

Or maybe it is me but it's something unfixable, like my height or my ugly mug or my missing leg. That would be more understandable from an outside perspective, as in I'd expect lots of rejection at that point, but for me that's still a reason for me to stop beating myself up and nitpicking ways to get ever-more-perfect. I'm a kind and decent person, I don't need to be become Superman to be worthy of love. I have value too, and I have value even now. I can't help that nobody else is able to see it. Maybe the problem isn't that I'm not good enough but that I haven't found the right people?

Online dating, being as tough as it is especially for men, can really gnaw at your sanity by making you believe you're not good enough when the reality is standards there are completely unreasonable. You gotta hold your head high and recognize your own value so lack of success online doesn't destroy your self-esteem. That said, knowing your self-worth doesn't make the lonely nights any less lonely. It's especially frustrating at my age to still have not found a single person who gives a damn.
 
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Katy

Banned deucer.
There's a point through all the introspection and self-improvement where, if nothing is working, blame necessarily has to be placed elsewhere. What could be wrong with me? Hmm, could be X. Let's try improving X... Nope, guess that wasn't it, still not having success. Maybe it's Y? ... Nope. Z? Still getting nowhere. Y'know, what is the problem isn't me? I'm busting my ass in pursuit of perfection but people who haven't put in that work, effort, who are objectively deficient in some matters of their own yet nobody seems to care in their case, are having no trouble. Maybe this self-improvement thing isn't all it's cracked up to be. (And I don't think it is. It's valid to the point that everyone should strive to put their best foot forward, but at the same time it also conveys a sense of never being good enough if you never take time to acknowledge your strengths and inherent value as a person.)

Or maybe it is me but it's something unfixable, like my height or my ugly mug or my missing leg. That would be more understandable from an outside perspective, as in I'd expect lots of rejection at that point, but for me that's still a reason for me to stop beating myself up and nitpicking ways to get ever-more-perfect. I'm a kind and decent person, I don't need to be become Superman to be worthy of love. I have value too, and I have value even now. I can't help that nobody else is able to see it. Maybe the problem isn't that I'm not good enough but that I haven't found the right people?

Online dating, being as tough as it is especially for men, can really gnaw at your sanity by making you believe you're not good enough when the reality is standards there are completely unreasonable. You gotta hold your head high and recognize your own value so lack of success online doesn't destroy your self-esteem. That said, knowing your self-worth doesn't make the lonely nights any less lonely. It's especially frustrating at my age to still have not found a single person who gives a damn.
hey mr. e perhaps you should try another "location" to date a girl if tinder doesnt mean any success for you. go out, to the world, it is better than being restricted to the small amount of information you have about the girl and the girl has about you.

i think changing the attitude is probably also necessary since you always blame it on the girls at the very end, you always say we have high standards even tho that is not the truth in a majority of cases. a good amount of men have high standards as a good amount of girls have, but that doesnt mean its the absolute super majority which has these standards.

oftentimes men and girls filter, photoshop, etc those tinder and whatnot pfps is because our world sadly lives the superficialness nowadays.
it isnt about the person itself, its about what the person seems to "presents", its only the surface instead of the true inner self.

i would advice you to go outside, join clubs, like hobby-clubs, idk what your hobbies are, but im p sure there is smth out there for each and every person. get to know people - especially women - there instead of relyin' on tinder-profiles.

and dont try to be "perfect" because perfection doesnt exist, noone is perfect at all, we all have our flaws and small tiny mistakes, but that is what makes us human and unique and sets us apart from other persons.

try to work on that instead and accept yourself with all the uniqueness and flaws you may have, there is nothin' wrong wit' having them!

and one last advice: pls stop blaming that at us girls, that doesnt help at all, and when a girl reads smth like that, it will make her shy back from getting in contact with you to begin with!

there is nothing more i can help with, but perhaps u see things a lil more clear now.
 
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Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
I live in a small town where there's little to go out and do, besides which COVID has kinda been a huge damper for IRL happenings in general for the past six months and who knows how much longer. (My best guess is we'll have a vaccine ready by the end of the year and have it widely available by early 2021, but that's total conjecture.) Besides, it's not like I haven't tried nor continue to do so; I'm not at home mashing out video games 40+ hours a week anymore, crying about how a supermodel won't literally walk into my house and proposition me. Once my finances/savings are more secure, I'm strongly considering moving to a big city in large part to improve my dating prospects. It's kinda ridiculous that I even have to consider that but aye.

On-topic, it kinda puts online dating in a really weird spot. You have some people really getting into it for the first time, because there's so few other ways to legitimately meet others currently, but failure rates (where "failure" is not going on in-person dates) are probably through the roof because you have more people than ever just using it for validation and generic socializing. In addition, more people are now uncomfortable meeting in-person and once-good connections are losing steam and fizzling out because conversations are being drawn out to the point of exhaustion without being converted to in-person interactions.

It's really just a bad time to be trying to meet people at all, but at the same time people don't stop needing intimacy and companionship from one another. Arguably, going through such tough times it's even more necessary than usual. For me personally, where social endeavors were to be my primary focus of self-improvement of recent, it's really hard to just turn that off. Like, I've been on my own for long enough, there's only so much I can do to keep improving myself in isolation. It's easy to say "work on yourself" as a serial monogamist who is facing down long-term singlehood for the first time in their adult life and perhaps should take the time to grow on their own. When you've done nothing but that for so long, you don't want to keep doing that just because the pandemic has made it more difficult to work on social improvement.
 

Exeggutor

twist
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
As a general statement to anyone who might read, contentment and happiness on your own as an individual with or without a relationship should be the goal, not self-improvement for the sake of getting into a relationship. A partner isn't going to erase years of loneliness and the feelings that have taken you there. A relationship isn't going to be healthy if you both depend solely on each other for validation, emotional support, and more. I'm the happiest I've ever been outside of a relationship because I've developed myself into a person that I like regardless of my relationship status, and I think a lot of people my age tend to forget that.

Becoming a well-rounded person is key for your own individual development and happiness, not just for others' perception of you as a person. Things like creative hobbies, physical activity, activities you like to do socially - doing that sort of thing is great for your own development as a person, and in my case has made me a much happier, creative and fulfilled person outside of a relatonship, and a more interesting and independent person within one.
 
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of course desirability politics play a major role in dating apps since you're not seeing the person irl and you're simply swiping for shits and giggles. as a gay man, for example, i feel far more pressure to maintain a certain body type & upkeep a certain lifestyle because of social scripts--far more than straight men, anyway.
This is a good post overall but straight men have a massive amount of social pressure to look good as well. The match rate on the dating apps for men seeking women is extremely low until you’ve accumulated
a very significant amount of muscle at a low body fat (10-14%). I’ve definitely noticed my match rate get way higher the stronger and more lean I get.

Skinny DTC got almost 0 matches, average DTC matched with ~2% of people, fit DTC is getting about a ~12% match rate (this is Hinge, the “relationship” app not Tinder stats btw). I’m still pretty far from jacked but I’ve been working out in the gym 6 times a week for the past 3 years (i started working out 5 years ago but I haven’t always been super consistent). Also a 12% match rate should theoretically be enough to find a girlfriend, but 85% of those ghost after a couple of messages, and the ones I do go on dates with tend to be pretty good people, but we’re just not compatible.
 
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BP

Beers and Steers
is a Contributor to Smogon
as a gay man, for example, i feel far more pressure to maintain a certain body type & upkeep a certain lifestyle because of social scripts--far more than straight men, anyway.
I feel like regardless of your sexual persuasion you should take care of your body. I'm not gonna hook up or even date an unhealthy person or someone who looks unhealthy. That's just what I prefer. I understand that you mention being gay makes you feel far more pressure to have this upkeep and I totally get that to be honest. Granted I'm not gay but I understand feeling the need to look good so that people are attracted to you.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
two things:

1) In most cases, people do need relationships to feel happy. It doesn't have to be romantic relationships, but having that intimacy can absolutely erase years of loneliness and depression. I've talked to people who have had exactly this experience. Having close friends and/or romantic partners can do wonders for your mental and physical health. "According to a meta-analysis co-authored by Julianne Holt-Lunstad, PhD, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at Brigham Young University, lack of social connection heightens health risks as much as smoking 15 cigarettes a day or having alcohol use disorder. She’s also found that loneliness and social isolation are twice as harmful to physical and mental health as obesity" source

2) Clearly not everything is going right in the realm of dating and relationships, and it's not something that can always be blamed on individuals for not being their best selves. There is a societal level issue where people dating and having sex is at a decline in both men and women (at men's a higher rate). I think Mr. E is off-base to place so much of the blame his problems of online dating at the hands of young women. Yeah many young women are very picky when it comes to choosing since they have so many options, and this is backed up by statistics source. However, at the same time, many young men spam them with ridiculous amounts of messages which forces them to play the game this way source. It's a feedback loop of human nature's worst instincts, fueled by technology. Of course, online dating can work for a lot of people but many will also get behind as more and more people shift from meeting partners in real life to online. All of this is just one example of a larger societal issue of humans feeling more isolated from each other due to technological and cultural changes.
 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
idk about all this boys, I do have a difficult time taking these recent posts seriously given all the completely average looking and often overweight men I know who get matches on Tinder and have wild success in having longterm relationships with ppl they meet online. Maybe its not that you have to be 10-14% body fat but you do have to work on your appearance and self-presentation in other ways. Or maybe you're not good at matching with people who would reciprocate your interest. Or maybe you start messages with the word 'hey' or you do some other thing that gets you insta-filtered because women on these apps get a lot of messages. Idk what you're doing thats causing your experiences of not succeeding at online dating, but I do know that it is entirely possible to be completely average looking and succeed in online dating particularly tinder and okcupid which are the main online dating systems the completely average looking men I know use.

Finally for those of you (mre) who have to start somewhere and have low social supports, particularly low women social supports (whose advice would probably be most helpful for trying to date women), I highly recommend therapy. Although usually people think of therapy as where you go to talk about how your parents done you wrong, and this is an excellent use of therapy as well, you can also get advice on how to go about dating and any number of other things. I myself go to therapy every thursday and it has definitely improved my love life. Before I started therapy I was a super thin and fit person from spending a couple of years being manic from working night shifts, I spent hours on my appearance each day including amazing make-up schemes and priceless hair styling. However, I wasn't pulling any women during this period despite making approximately the same number of weird moves on ppl as I did during the other periods of my adult life. This is because looks do not matter as much as your personality, which includes not being obviously crazy. If a nonbinary trans person like myself can succeed in dating women you can too imo, and therapy is a fine place to start I reckon.
 
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Different people have different experiences. Your experience is just as valid as mine... we just live in different areas and contexts.

I match with women that I would approach in real life. They are generally a lot more receptive to me in person than online. I look exactly like my pictures (I get my pictures rated by people I know in person & strangers online). It's just easier to build attraction by simply just making eye contact and having basic conversation. And you're not competing with the hundreds of other guys that are messaging her. I can't wait to go back to just meeting girls in person again. It's genuinely 100x easier.

Keep in mind that I'm a university student in a party school. If girls want to meet guys, they meet them at parties or bars (or anywhere else on campus). Few girls that go to my school are seriously looking for relationships at this age (and even fewer guys).
 

Mr.E

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I went to therapy recently too. Tried everything else to that point (except moving), why not cover all my bases. She said I seemed very well-spoken and cut me off after three sessions because she felt like she couldn't actually help me, to which I didn't disagree. :blobshrug: So, like, just saying but the literal professional said there's nothing wrong with me. Maybe she was a bad therapist, I dunno.

Exactly, DTC. There are good people who can't find a relationship, there are bad people who have no trouble. Maybe my main problem is living in a rural shithole. It's hard to say because higher population means more competition as much as it means more choice, but at the least I, an educated liberal, would be in more compatible company which itself might lead to improved matching. I think people in big cities don't understand the pain of rural dating. When the number of new profiles you see online daily numbers in single digits, you necessarily have to expand your radius... to include all the people who will almost never see your profile back because they have 800 other options within a 10-mile radius. Nevermind lack of things to go out and do IRL.

Or maybe the algorithms just fuck you and don't bother to show you to anyone. Who knows there. One's love life being largely left up to the whims of proprietary technology designed first and foremost not to produce results but make money (which is, indeed, best done by intentionally not producing results such as to frustrate users enough to pay for premium features)... wew lad, kinda scary.
 
So I'm very comfortable meeting romantic prospects as friends first, developing a rapport and relationship that way, and allowing it to grow into a desire for something more. Much less comfortable with the online stuff. I don't use social media generally anyway because I really dislike the aspects of self presentation that are important there. I don't take a lot of pictures or do things because I want to share them with everybody. I don't know what to say to people when I match with them because unlike in real life there's nothing of interest to connect over. Every time I dabble it's usually no more than a week or two before I give up on it. If I'm lucky I've managed to go on a single terrible date by then.

But like Mr E I'm also pretty rural at the moment. Since becoming an adult (I'm 28), friends and friends of friends are harder to find. Better when it happens, sure, but also more likely to be at work which has its own problems... I've really been trying before the pandemic to get out more, but I might be stuck trying online again since I'm getting stir crazy and could use a bit of an emotional break.

Any tips for how i can get the most out of this? I don't think even in real life I'm especially good at selling myself or making a great first impression, but people who have the opportunity to get to know me generally like what they see. I know I'm weird, like who I am, and am looking for people who are down with that, but it's difficult to get that across in a profile without sounding negative. How can I best get over the hump, get people to open up so we can have actual interesting conversations?

For reference I've never had much of a problem in the looks department (I'm pretty average-above average), but as I get older my hair is thinning a bit which I imagine is gonna be a problem. I exercise a lot more than I used to so it's not all bad but still, harder than ever to take pictures I'm happy with.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
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I went to therapy recently too. Tried everything else to that point (except moving), why not cover all my bases. She said I seemed very well-spoken and cut me off after three sessions because she felt like she couldn't actually help me, to which I didn't disagree. :blobshrug: So, like, just saying but the literal professional said there's nothing wrong with me. Maybe she was a bad therapist, I dunno.
I'm not sold on your framing of your exit from therapy here. I'm not trying to press you, but I feel like this comment maybe helpful:

Usually the only time the situation you described where your therapist cut you off can happen is when they can't bill for the sessions. Afaik the only way they can't bill for the therapy is if the client fails or refuses to identify any goals they want to work on in therapy. Even a goal like "I want to talk to someone once a week about stressful things in my life" is typically enough for billing. I reckon around 10-30% minimum of ppl in therapy have 'nothing wrong with them' (and do we even really believe that anyone has nothing wrong with them? Does any therapist believe that there is anyone with nothing wrong with them?), that doesn't mean they can't benefit from therapy in very significant ways. So I mean, maybe it's worth trying therapy again with the goal to talk about coping with being single? or something like that anyway.

There are 2 other situations where a therapist will stop therapy with a client. One is conflict of interest, this is usually where they know someone who knows you. This seems extremely unlikely to have occured, but maybe possible if the rural place you live in is that sparsely populated. If this had been the case the therapist would have been ethically obligated to refer you to another practitioner and since this did not occur I'm leaning towards the situation I described in the paragraph above. Finally the last way someone can have their 'therapy' discontinued is if they're in-patient and they should be out-patient, but I think obviously this situation is nothing like yours.

So I think it is worth considering trying this again if your finances/health insurance permit it, with an adjustment in approach where you identify some goals you want to work on or some topics in your life you could lower your stress by discussing in therapy.
 

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