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I'm looking for a little teambuilding help in that I can't seem to find one mon to fulfill all the roles I need it to. I am looking for a counter to special dragons, both Charizard Megas, Genesect, and something that lures Mawile. If anyone can help, thank you! If there simply is no set that can fulfill these roles, thank you anyways!
 
No one did this so I clearly didn't pick a Pokemon with enough good options. Sorry, everyone! I'll skip this round and move on to another Pokemon for the official "first" round.

Because of its incredibly wide movepool and balanced stats, allowing for quite the variety of potential sets, I'm going with Mew next.



Please submit!
 

wishes

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hope (Mew) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 132 Atk / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Trick
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge

Here's a Mew set for you all! This variation of Mew is something I think it does pretty cool. Choice Scarf Mew outspeeds a vast majority of the metagame, and it can utilize Trick to cripple Pokemon like Deoxys-D + Chansey. 216 Speed EVs and a Naive nature outspeeds 252+ Scarf Kyurem-Black 100% of the time. 132 Attack EVs allow Mew to 2HKO a Mega Charizard X 100% of the time, while the rest is dumped into SpA. Psychic is general coverage, while Ice Beam is specifically for Mega Salamence (it is OHKOed by Ice Beam). Stone Edge is important because it OHKOes Char Y, 2HKOes Kyube and Char X, and it hits Togekiss harder than Ice Beam for what it's worth. Here's some replays of Mew being used:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345194
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345347
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345967
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236346760
 
I'm looking for a little teambuilding help in that I can't seem to find one mon to fulfill all the roles I need it to. I am looking for a counter to special dragons, both Charizard Megas, Genesect, and something that lures Mawile. If anyone can help, thank you! If there simply is no set that can fulfill these roles, thank you anyways!
I think Heatran is going to be as close as you can get for dealing with the threats you listed. It doesn't exactly lure Mawile, but it certainly beats it, and it handles the rest of the threats on your list at least somewhat adequately.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Stone Edge
- Flash Cannon/Taunt/filler

LO for the guaranteed KO on Mega Char X (and others), max SpA and Modest to smack shit around, 80 HP to live the Focus Blast from Mega Char Y, 20 Def lets you live one Mega Mawile Brick Break, 60 Spe to outrun no speed Kyurem/max speed Mawile, and I didn't really have a use for the rest so I stuck it in SpD. Fire Blast koes both Genesect and Mawile, Dragon Pulse deals with dragons, and Stone Edge is for Mega Char Y. Last slot is pretty much filler, you can run Flash Cannon if you have trouble with Mega Altaria/Kyurem-B, I guess.

Offensive Calcs:
0- Atk Life Orb Heatran Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 380-447 (127.9 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 304-359 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 1191-1409 (420.8 - 497.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mawile: 585-689 (193 - 227.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 244-289 (81.6 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 291-343 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 408-484 (104.3 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 359-424 (101.4 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive Calcs:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 134-158 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (You lose to Earthquake, obviously.)
252 SpA Genesect Hidden Power Ground vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 216-256 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Download gives him the attack boost with this spread.)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 288-340 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 121-142 (35.2 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 221-260 (64.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You have an excellent chance to KO after his LO recoil, and if he's not running LO, he misses the 2hko with Superpower.)
0 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 284-336 (82.7 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You lose to Kyurem if he's running a Life Orb or two of any bulk, any speed, or any SpA, unfortunately.)
0 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 292-344 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (You lose if he's running an offensive spread.)

My set probably sucks, but I think some variation of Heatran would probably work for you.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor

hope (Mew) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 132 Atk / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
- Trick
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge

Here's a Mew set for you all! This variation of Mew is something I think it does pretty cool. Choice Scarf Mew outspeeds a vast majority of the metagame, and it can utilize Trick to cripple Pokemon like Deoxys-D + Chansey. 216 Speed EVs and a Naive nature outspeeds 252+ Scarf Kyurem-Black 100% of the time. 132 Attack EVs allow Mew to 2HKO a Mega Charizard X 100% of the time, while the rest is dumped into SpA. Psychic is general coverage, while Ice Beam is specifically for Mega Salamence (it is OHKOed by Ice Beam). Stone Edge is important because it OHKOes Char Y, 2HKOes Kyube and Char X, and it hits Togekiss harder than Ice Beam for what it's worth. Here's some replays of Mew being used:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345194
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345347
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236345967
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-236346760
It's worth noting that both chansey and ferrothorn will still beat this set assuming that they go for seismic toss or leech seed respectively. That said, it's a nice set and not one that would be expected.
 
Here's my favorite Mew set that I've been starting to run on tons of my teams (no one else seems to use it so I'll post it anyways):

Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reflect Type (or stone edge or avalanche or whatever fits your counterteaming needs)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost

So Mew is a great pokemon and everything, but I couldn't help but feel like some of its checks really shouldn't be beating it much of the time. This set started out as a Scald/Taunt/Roost/Reflect Type set, but I realized scald has a horrible burn chance when I use it so I just went for Will-o-wisp instead, and man, this thing is good.

148+ speed is used to get the burn on mega salamence, which is otherwise very problematic if it gets a substitute up, and kee Berry helps it live attacks it usually doesn't live; I have found this item extremely useful overall. For example, with Kee Berry, it can almost always live (like 93% or smth) Mega Gyarados's crunch by taunting it first turn and then using reflect type. It also now wins against Fake Out + Last Resort Mega Lopunny (which iirc leftovers doesn't beat with this spread)

Reflect type is a really interesting move on Mew. With reflect type, Mew no longer has to face a 50/50 against crunch Mega Gyarados, and can actually beat Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross.

Will-o-wisp gets residual damage and halves attack damage, which is really nice for something as bulky as Mew. Note that this does mean it automatically lose to fire types, but it's so good overall versus everything else...

Taunt is another move that's pretty much obligatory on Mew; with it, Mew can beat almost every set up pokemon in the game, including SD Mega Mawile, DD Mega Salamence, DD Mega Gyarados, and other stuff not named DD Zard X.

Roost is obligatory recovery, because this is a wall, so it needs recovery.

Kyurem-B, Mega Mawile, Mega salamence, Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Deoxys-D, Chansey, Dragonite, Garchomp, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, Rhyperior, Mega Aggron, Mega Altaria (sometimes), Cloyster, Crustle, Golem, Mega Heracross, Jirachi, Mega Lopunny, Mega Lucario, Magnezone, Porygon2, Smeargle, Mega Venusaur

Zard X, Zard Y, Meloetta, Aegislash, Mega Gardevoir, Greninja, Porygon-Z, Slowbro, Togekiss, Mega Blastoise, Conkeldurr, Entei, Genesect, Heatran, Latios, Mega Sableye, Sylveon, Victini, Whimsicott

(notice how this set actually beats about 2/3s of the entire meta)

also if you're going to say this set is standard because of usage...well let's just say I play a bit too much...

I'm looking for a little teambuilding help in that I can't seem to find one mon to fulfill all the roles I need it to. I am looking for a counter to special dragons, both Charizard Megas, Genesect, and something that lures Mawile. If anyone can help, thank you! If there simply is no set that can fulfill these roles, thank you anyways!
Use a chansey set with a set of Thunder Wave + Charm + Soft-Boiled + Seismic Toss. It's pretty cancer but it fulfills all your requirements.
 
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InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
I think Heatran is going to be as close as you can get for dealing with the threats you listed. It doesn't exactly lure Mawile, but it certainly beats it, and it handles the rest of the threats on your list at least somewhat adequately.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 96 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Stone Edge
- Flash Cannon/Taunt/filler

LO for the guaranteed KO on Mega Char X (and others), max SpA and Modest to smack shit around, 80 HP to live the Focus Blast from Mega Char Y, 20 Def lets you live one Mega Mawile Brick Break, 60 Spe to outrun no speed Kyurem/max speed Mawile, and I didn't really have a use for the rest so I stuck it in SpD. Fire Blast koes both Genesect and Mawile, Dragon Pulse deals with dragons, and Stone Edge is for Mega Char Y. Last slot is pretty much filler, you can run Flash Cannon if you have trouble with Mega Altaria/Kyurem-B, I guess.

Offensive Calcs:
0- Atk Life Orb Heatran Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 380-447 (127.9 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 304-359 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 1191-1409 (420.8 - 497.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mawile: 585-689 (193 - 227.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 244-289 (81.6 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 291-343 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 408-484 (104.3 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 359-424 (101.4 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive Calcs:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 134-158 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (You lose to Earthquake, obviously.)
252 SpA Genesect Hidden Power Ground vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 216-256 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Download gives him the attack boost with this spread.)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Brick Break vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 288-340 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 121-142 (35.2 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 221-260 (64.4 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You have an excellent chance to KO after his LO recoil, and if he's not running LO, he misses the 2hko with Superpower.)
0 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 80 HP / 96 SpD Heatran: 284-336 (82.7 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You lose to Kyurem if he's running a Life Orb or two of any bulk, any speed, or any SpA, unfortunately.)
0 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 20 Def Heatran: 292-344 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (You lose if he's running an offensive spread.)

My set probably sucks, but I think some variation of Heatran would probably work for you.
I was JUST about to say almost the exact same thing lol >.<
The only thing I would recommend is Air Balloon as the item. The main special Dragons are Latios (which can run EQ), Special Kyu-B (which runs Earth Power), Hydreigon (Earth Power), and special Mega Altaria (which also sometimes run EQ) so dodging them is cool. You still beat even EQ variants of Zard X as even though you don't OHKO without Life Orb you fail to be 2HKOed by Outrage (which it needs to use to pop the balloon). It also dodges Earth Power from Hydreigon, forcing it to Superpower or Dark Pulse.
 
I was JUST about to say almost the exact same thing lol >.<
The only thing I would recommend is Air Balloon as the item. The main special Dragons are Latios (which can run EQ), Special Kyu-B (which runs Earth Power), Hydreigon (Earth Power), and special Mega Altaria (which also sometimes run EQ) so dodging them is cool. You still beat even EQ variants of Zard X as even though you don't OHKO without Life Orb you fail to be 2HKOed by Outrage (which it needs to use to pop the balloon). It also dodges Earth Power from Hydreigon, forcing it to Superpower or Dark Pulse.
I had considered using Air Balloon, but the problem with Air Balloon is that without the added power from Life Orb, many of the threats you mentioned can simply pop the balloon and proceed to outspeed and KO you next turn with the Ground-type move, since you now miss the 1HKO on both Mega Charizards, Hydreigon, Kyu-B, and Mega Altaria. With Life Orb, you can tank one Ground-type move and get the KO with whatever move, since you still win even if you faint from LO recoil. I believe the only thing you beat with Air Balloon that you don't with Life Orb is EQ variants of Mega Charizard X that you mentioned, and even then you only beat them if they're running Outrage, since if they're running Dragon Claw they just pop the balloon and kill you the next turn.

It does occur to me that a bulky Scarf Heatran could work as well, since then you wouldn't have to pump as many EV's into SpA, as you would only have to get the 2HKO instead of the 1HKO - you could put most of your EV's into defenses in order to survive the Ground moves instead.
 
I had considered using Air Balloon, but the problem with Air Balloon is that without the added power from Life Orb, many of the threats you mentioned can simply pop the balloon and proceed to outspeed and KO you next turn with the Ground-type move, since you now miss the 1HKO on both Mega Charizards, Hydreigon, Kyu-B, and Mega Altaria. With Life Orb, you can tank one Ground-type move and get the KO with whatever move, since you still win even if you faint from LO recoil. I believe the only thing you beat with Air Balloon that you don't with Life Orb is EQ variants of Mega Charizard X that you mentioned, and even then you only beat them if they're running Outrage, since if they're running Dragon Claw they just pop the balloon and kill you the next turn.

It does occur to me that a bulky Scarf Heatran could work as well, since then you wouldn't have to pump as many EV's into SpA, as you would only have to get the 2HKO instead of the 1HKO - you could put most of your EV's into defenses in order to survive the Ground moves instead.
A lot of choice locked users like Kyurem Black struggle with Balloon Heatran because they can't get locked into Earth Power, but Heatran resists all of its other common coverage
 

InfernapeTropius11

get on my level
I had considered using Air Balloon, but the problem with Air Balloon is that without the added power from Life Orb, many of the threats you mentioned can simply pop the balloon and proceed to outspeed and KO you next turn with the Ground-type move, since you now miss the 1HKO on both Mega Charizards, Hydreigon, Kyu-B, and Mega Altaria. With Life Orb, you can tank one Ground-type move and get the KO with whatever move, since you still win even if you faint from LO recoil. I believe the only thing you beat with Air Balloon that you don't with Life Orb is EQ variants of Mega Charizard X that you mentioned, and even then you only beat them if they're running Outrage, since if they're running Dragon Claw they just pop the balloon and kill you the next turn.

It does occur to me that a bulky Scarf Heatran could work as well, since then you wouldn't have to pump as many EV's into SpA, as you would only have to get the 2HKO instead of the 1HKO - you could put most of your EV's into defenses in order to survive the Ground moves instead.
Thing is most of those mons will be choice locked, and Heatran usually resists their coverage (Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, Psyshock, etc.) so they will have to choice-lock themselves into those moves and Heatran can proceed to kill them.

EDIT: gdi picc u ninja >.<
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
Thing is most of those mons will be choice locked, and Heatran usually resists their coverage (Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, Psyshock, etc.) so they will have to choice-lock themselves into those moves and Heatran can proceed to kill them.

EDIT: gdi picc u ninja >.<
while many mons are choice locked I think it's wrong to say they all are. Mega Salamence and WP kyu-b aren't all that uncommon, and would be happy to destroy the balloon then go for eq/earth power.
 
A slight revision to the project. Since we haven't been getting too many submissions, there's no need for a vote. Instead, I'll just be adding submissions I like (probably most of them) to the post.

Next up, the ubiquitous Kyurem-Black. I know a lot of sets already exist, but there's still room to be creative!


edit: if enough people start submitting again, I may return to the original format.
 

Reisen

Octogone
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I've tested two different sets with Kyurem-Black, who has a great movepool and access to interesting moves. However, its double type is a real weakness in 1v1 tier in which there is too many steel and fight / fairy types in high viability ranking.
Special Offense Kyurem-Black

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon​

Moves

Draco Meteor is the best Special hyper offense STAB move for Kyurem-Black. It allows Kyurem to lose 80% of Wobbuffet HPs and OHKO many high viability ranking Pokemons such as Charizard X-Y, Porygon Z, Kyurem-Black non scarf, Mega Salamence, Dragonite, Victini and Mega Gyarados. This is the most powerful move of Kyurem-Black as Special Dragon type, combinated with Specs, it is essential to make a lot of damages.

Ice Beam is the second best Special STAB move on Kyurem. It allows it to counter many Flying / Grass type Pokemons such as Togekiss / Mega Venusaur / Whimsicott and Ferrothorn. Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn are 2HKOed by Specs Ice Beam, losing 60% and 70% per attacks. It also allows Kyurem to counter Dragon type such as Dragonite, which isn't faster than Kyurem and even with Multiscale it would get OHKOed.

Earth Power is a coverage move that is essential to Kyurem. It allows Kyurem to counter Steel type Pokemons who are really present in the 1v1 tier such as Mega Metagross, Mega Mawile, Mega Aggron and Jirachi. However Mega Metagross, Jirachi and Mega Aggron aren't OHKOed by Kyurem-Black Earth Power. It also allows Kyurem to totally counter Heatran without Air Ballon, who would be OHKOed because of its double weakness to ground type.

Flash Cannon is the last powerful Special move of Kyurem. It allows Kyurem to counter Fairy type Pokemons such as Mega Gardevoir, Mega Altaria, Clefable and Sylveon. However, Sylveon wouldn't be OHKOed by Kyurem Specs Flash Cannon.

Set Details

The EV's repartition is made to be a Special hyper offense. 252 in SpA and Speed allows Kyurem to OHKO many Pokemons, it can easily beat Greninja and some high viability ranking Pokemons in the 1v1 tier.
Timid Nature is to maximizing its Speed stat, it could allow Kyurem to be faster than other Kyurems without Scarf, and then to not be OHKOed by Outrage. It can also outspeed Dragonite.

Teravolt combinated with Specs is great to counter Sturdy strategy Pokemons such as Golem or Magnezone. Indeed, Teravolt is like Mold Breaker, it ignores the opponent ability, which means that Sturdy isn't working against Kyurem Black. It allows Kyurem to OHKO Golem, Magnezone and Probopass.

Other Options

Kyurem-Black can be played with a Choice Scarf instead of a Specs Choice but its power will be substantially decreased. It would probably not OHKO some Mega such as Charizard Y, who has access to Roost for example and Mawile Mega aswell with Earth Power but it could outspeed a lot of Pokemons. Mega Salamence would be OHKOed by Kyurem Ice Beam if it is scarfed.

Expert Belt is also a good option to this set but Draco Meteor will not be boosted if Kyurem hits the opponent as neutral attack.

Check and Counters

  • Stallers: Bulky Stallers such as Chansey Eviolite and Deoxys-Defense are totally countering Special offens Kyurem. It wouldn't do anything against these Pokemons and would lose against Seismic Toss. Sylveon who isn't played stall could still counter Kyurem Black because of its huge SpD stat and Hyper Voice Pixilated.
  • Faster Pokemons: Mega Lopunny is countering Special Kyurem aswell, who would be OHKOed by High Jump Kick. Some Scarf Pokemons such as Jirachi, Togekiss and Porygon Z could also counter Kyurem. Mega Salamence is also countering Kyurem with Outrage and higher Speed stat. Terrakion Close Combat is really fast aswell, Kyurem couldn't handle its powerful STAB attack.
  • Steel Type Pokemons: They are the bigger problem of Kyurem actually. It can't OHKO Mega Metagross, who is faster and could easily beat Kyurem with Meteor Smash. Mega Aggron is really bulky + its Filter Ability that allows it to not be OHKOed by Kyurem Earth Power and Heavy Slam is powerful on Aggron M. Jirachi Scarf Iron Head counters Kyurem aswell, with Serene Grace Kyurem is sure to lose the game.
In conclusion of this set, it isn't greater than the physical hyper offense one, it still has many weaknesses and it's actually not strong enough to be played with a Scarf, which allows Kyurem to be faster instead of its physical set. It needs a Specs to be decent, at the expense of its Speed stat. However, Specs Kyurem is a great counter to Mega Mawile, who is really present on the 1v1 tier, instead of its physical set with Earth Power that always 2HKO Mawile. This set can also surprise Wobbuffet and some defensive pokemons such as Mega Mawile and Charizard X will try to use counter against Kyurem Black, which allows it to 2HKO them.

-------------------------

Bulky Staller Kyurem-Black


Kyurem-Black @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost
- Earth Power
Moves

Substitute is a nice move in this set. It allows Kyurem to be protected from Toxic Stall users such as Deoxys Defense and Chansey. Beside, Substitute allows Kyurem to counter Draco Meteor Users such as Latias, Altaria and Kyurem aswell because the Substitute will absorb the attack and the opponent will lose x2 in SpA which is really great in 1v1 if that's a Special Pokemon.

Toxic is essential to Kyurem stall strategy. It is the move that will make the most pressure to the opponent. It also allows Kyurem to counter staller such as Chansey and Deoxys Defense.

Kyurem Black has access to Roost which gives it 50% of its HP. It's a great move in a stall build like this one, it allows Kyurem to recover HP after using Substitute and keeping the Toxic pressure.

Earth Power is the coverage offensive attack to Kyurem. Indeed the only one huge problem to this build is Steel type, Earth Power can affect them, could be very dangerous on Heatran but it is not a move that is used to be offensive actually, it's just to increase the damages of Toxic.

Set Details

Maximize Defense stat with Bold Nature and 252 in Defense. It will allows Kyurem to be 2HKOed by physical offensive dragon attacks such as Outrage Kyurem / Dragonite and Salamence. Beside, playing with Hablan Berry allows Kyurem to only be hitted by 30% to the next Dragon attack. Charizard Y with Dragon Pulse will not do more that 20% damages.
To increase the chances to stay alive against Physical hyper offense, maximizing HP stat is a great choice because most of the Pokemons in 1v1 tier are played physically offensive.

Teravolt isn't that useful with that set, Kyurem could touch Levitate Pokemons such as Gengar or Latias/Tios with Earth Power and it could also use Toxic on Snorlax with the Immunity ability.

Other Options

Protect could be another option in this set instead of Substitute. It would allow Kyurem to have more resistance against Outrage Pokemon users such as Dragonite Band, Kyurem and Salamence.

Check and Counters

  • Prankster: They totally counter this stall build. Indeed they can use Taunt and Encore, which can bypass Substitute and this build will be totally useless. Whimsicott and Sableye can counter Kyurem.
  • Offensive Steel / Fairy type: Mega Mawile totally counters this set. Indeed, its double type allows Mawile to not be affected by Toxic, and Earth Power wouldn't be effective on this defensive set. Beside, Hablan Berry works only on Dragon Type attacks, which means that Fairy and Steel Type attacks can be dangerous for Kyurem. Mega Metagross and other Steel types in the 1v1 tier are a problem to this set. Skamory totally counters Kyurem because it has an immunity to toxic and it can't be affected by Earth power due to its Flying type.
  • Offensive Special: This build isn't really effective against Special offensive Pokemons such as Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon that can both bypass Substitute with Hyper Voice Pixilated.

In conclusion of this set, Kyurem has access to Roost, which can be interesting to use in a stall build. However, its double type makes it really weak against a lot of Types that are common in the actual 1v1 tier and in the high viability ranking Pokemons sets. It can't really handle Fairies Special Pokemons and Taunt totally breaks its strategy.
 
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bump
going to be quick here, but here's a set that's really fun and that i got pretty successful with.

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 72 HP / 184 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam/Stone Edge

Basically a Kyurem-B that's EV'd to live a Scarf Outrage from opposing Kyurem-B. It's basically just a band kyurem-B that can beat other dragons (except for max speed Zard X) like Megamence and Scarf Kyurem-B but unlike other sets. Still very powerful; strong enough to break stuff like Weakness Policy Kyurem-B, which is cool.
Moveset is pretty simple, the last slot is basically whether you want to beat Megamence or Physically Defensive Charizard.

(Made this set to counterteam DEG while still standing a chance against the meta. I knew it worked because I knew the exact sets and EV Spreads by looking in usage stats)


Anyways, I'm pretty sure this project isn't getting a round 3 (Uselesscrab confirm?). Though to be honest, it would be nice if The Next Best Thing was extended to all metagames (I know niche discovery died but I feel like that was because niche discovery tried to be too big)
 
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Hey guys, going to share with you a set that's lots of fun to play with.

Gengar-Mega @Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
-Protect
-Disable
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb

This is one of the more successful trolls I've played with. Protect t1, to let the stat changes sink in and to prep for disable. t2-Disable. Disable kills the opponent's best moves, the ones that it will have used on turn 1. THis doesn't always work, but the times it does, it's amazing. after this, Gengar just STAB's the opponents to death.
 

Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
Hey guys, back in February we had a little discussion about Perish song here (starting with this post, which I recommend reading) and I'd like to think that the general consensus was that it's broken and shouldn't stay in 1v1.

It has been few months since that now, and while the discussion didn't progress any further and the strategy in question itself dropped in popularity for a while in the ladder, it has been making a comeback. I have been playing 1v1 this entire time and I'm once again inclined to make a post addressing this issue to make the point that this strategy really is broken and doesn't belong in 1v1.

I suspect that part of the reason Perish song dropped in popularity was due to the popularization of specs Meloetta (thanks to a certain dream eating 1v1 player), which stole Perish song Meloetta's thunder.

Back in February and now recently as well I have been asking my opponents in the ladder of their opinion on this case and the general opinion was that it's op. I know that this comes with no verification, but most current and past ladderers in 1v1 don't use Smogon and are mainly Pokemon Showdown users so I thought this deserved mentioning.

So what do you guys think, after these few months have passed, do you still consider Perish song in 1v1 broken?
 

Reisen

Octogone
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Perish Song is broken in my opinion.

Even if that's a set which is easy to predict, with Perish Song / Protect, it is just killing the 1v1 metagame imo, if you haven't any boost such as Sword Dance, Dragon Dance or even Nasty Plot / CM, you can't deal with a Perish Song user who is most of the time really bulky + Sitrus Berry.

It counters a lot of pokémons in the high viability ranking and it's just an 1v1 anti-meta move in my opinion.
 
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DEG

ADIOS COMPADRES
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As in my previous post, it is broken following two criteria:

1- The move itself restricting team choices as if a user that doesn't run Taunt or HO team, might fail in the hand of Perish Song due to a poor choice of Pokemon.

2- The factor of the same Pokemon running different sets, such as Meloetta which has a choice between Specs or Perish Song, both sets are countered differently, or the possibility of running into a band azumarill cause everyone will think it's a perish song one. Even Mega Altaria can excel in Perish song even though it can run three other viable sets.

For more detailed information read my previous post.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
While it's been a while since the Perish Song discussion began, I can't say that particularly much has changed. I'd like to have a look at how it influences teambuilding if you want to be able to beat it.

A decent team will probably have a mix of offensive and bulky, physical and special mons from S- and A- and maybe B-rank. Just throwing together three pretty random mons, I might get M-Gyarados/M-Garde/M-Venusaur. This gives a nice variety in that there's a DD user, special wallbreaker and a wall. However, the team doesn't seem to do very well against a number of threats such as mega mence and some Kyu-B sets, so let's swap out M-Venu for Chansey. The teambuilding so far has taken about 10 minutes of looking at the viability rankings and occasionally checking a calc (yup, mence's return OHKOs m-garde).

The team still needs testing of course, and it might turn out to be pretty bad. You might want to change the sets a bit, maybe running taunt on garde to help against opposing chansey or aggron. But all in all, it's hard to imagine the team completely struggling against most opponents.

Everything's different when it comes to perish song though. Rather than being able to switch one pokemon out for a similar one to deal with a multitude of threats, the fact that it can come from either of two very bulky pokemon makes it far harder to deal with. Trying to fit something like Mega Mawile on the team (which still only has a 7/8 chance of winning against azu) is far harder than being able to, say, swap m-garde out for Greninja, or Zard Y, or PoryZ, or Specs Melo or Specs Kyu-B or any of the other special wallbreakers available. Meanwhile, even if you decide you want to run taunt over sub on gyarados, it's useful far less often due to things like counter/seismic chansey or aggron being more common, and in any case if your opponent sends out Azu or Melo it probably won't be perish song anyway.

tl;dr when teambuilding it simply makes no sense to try to prepare for Perish Song, and as such it beats a large number of teams, much like Baton Pass in OU.
 

Reisen

Octogone
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The problem in the 1v1 tier is the build restriction. Indeed the player only has to pick 3 pokemons and select only one on the field. It's really not enough to counter Perish Song user because the Pokémons that have access to Taunt in the viability ranking actually can't lose a slot for Taunt, which totally breaks the Perish Song strategy.

It is easy to counter Perish Song actually with a Mawile Sword Dancer for example or a DD Pokémon but again, we have to mention the luck on Protect aswell, if the opponent is able to use it two times in a raw, it's over and that's quite unfair.

I'm definitely against this move, which is totally anti-meta and, most of the time, just offers some free wins.
 
Jussain', but mawile can't do shit to azumarill or meloetta if they have substitute and outspeed mawile, so the mawile argument is sadly flawed.

Just as everyone else says, perish song is just ludicrous to deal with in 1v1. I'm all for using your options to their maximum potential, but not in the case of perish song. Perish song has a way of killing a lot of creativity in 1v1 with its ability to pretty much flatten most stallers and tanks in 1v1 single-handedly.

Another [but lesser] problem with perish song is that it truly makes some coin toss situations, not only with protect RNG, but when looking at Azu and Meloetta, both are very much able to run different offensively based sets that are just as good as perish song.

It's one thing to have a pokemon use a gimmicky strategy to muscle past it's conventional counters, but sets like specs on meloetta are so versatile that it's basically impossible to tell which set the perish songers are going to be because of their sheer versatility, and with each set having a different set of counters, this can be a huge coin toss in itself.

IMO, it's about time that perish song sang its last swan song.
 
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Alakazam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_a1hPwXiWw
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Moderator
Welp. Sorta new here to these forums. But I do 1v1 quite a bit and I can confidently say that perish song needs to be banned. It is a move which, conversely to what you would think, is not designed not to kill a pokemon in 3 moves, it is designed to make a pokemon switch out on the fear of death. Think about it: your opponent uses perish song in an OU battle. Unless you're insane or a complete idiot, you are going to switch out to a different pokemon so the one afflicted can live another day. The threat of death is simply the motivation, not the intended result

In 1v1, however, you can not switch out. It turns the motivation of death into the imminent result of death. Thus, given a pokemon who can just use perish song and avoid being hit for three turns (a feat not particularly eyebrow-raising when every pokemon who can learn perish song can learn substitute and protect, among other moves that prevent being hit by attacks, such as dive and encore), it completely and utterly breaks the system and forces many users who do not wish to stoop so low to prepare specific counters to hopefully at least 2HKO an opponent, very difficult to do when the opponent need only devote all their evs to defenses or HP and just sit and laugh while you pointlessly fight and die in 3 turns

Perish Song in 1v1 needs to stop. It wastes precious resources in devoting counters to it, which takes a lot of the fun and competition out of a tier where resources are precious.

All in all, please ban perish song in 1v1. Its incredibly unfair
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
Jussain', but mawile can't do shit to azumarill or meloetta if they have substitute and outspeed mawile, so the mawile argument is sadly flawed.

Just as everyone else says, perish song is just ludicrous to deal with in 1v1. I'm all for using your options to their maximum potential, but not in the case of perish song. Perish song has a way of killing a lot of creativity in 1v1 with its ability to pretty much flatten most stallers and tanks in 1v1 single-handedly.

Another [but lesser] problem with perish song is that it truly makes some coin toss situations, not only with protect RNG, but when looking at Azu and Meloetta, both are very much able to run different offensively based sets that are just as good as perish song.

It's one thing to have a pokemon use a gimmicky strategy to muscle past it's conventional counters, but sets like specs on meloetta are so versatile that it's basically impossible to tell which set the perish songers are going to be because of their sheer versatility, and with each set having a different set of counters, this can be a huge coin toss in itself.

IMO, it's about time that perish song sang its last swan song.
If they outspeed mawile then maw wins due to perish song, as the faster mon dies first. Maw's a hard counter to all perish song users I've seen.
That said, just because it's a hard counter doesn't stop perish song from being broken.
 
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