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SubSalac Thundurus



Thundurus @ Salac Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot

This isn't exactly new (probably new to newer players) as before a lot of people used Leftovers but the catch here is Salac. I got the original inspiration from Steve Angello when he was doing some laddering with shit mons and decided to give it a go. You block things like Chanseys Toxic, Amoonguss, Spore, etc. and provide yourself with a win condition. Opportunities are normally found when forcing switches out like Slowbro in the replays below. The usual stuff that works with Thundurus works with this set I personally like using this on more Hyper Offensive squads.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-417160765

Vertex fulfilling the purpose of the set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-412193638

Playing vertex in a test game. This shows the utility of having Prankster with this set, justifying the use of Thundy-I > Thundy-T to put yourself in Salac Range.

Choice Specs Latios



Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Sleep Talk

I've been pretty big on this set lately just due to its more immediate power and being less reliant on Life Orb Recoil. While the set does lack Roost the initial power behind it can put a hurt on a lot of bulkier squads. Sleep Talk sort of functions in a similar fashion to the BW Latios variants as a sleep absorber with Spore Amoong and Breloom, Sleep Powder Tangrowth. The moves are interchangeable really though, some people may be more fond of having Psychic on the slot but I personally like Psyshock for the replay shown below, or Trick over Sleep Talk.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-416762398

Games a bit haxy but it shows the pressure it can put on these kind of builds, especially if Clef is the backbone of keeping Latios in check.

SubSplit Gengar



Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Pain Split

This isn't creative but it's a really underrated set. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Gengar at all, a lot of times it's a borderline unviable mon to me but I do think that Gengars peak of viability is based on this set as opposed to its other variants which are more matchup dependent while this provides it some real longevity and dynamic to it. Being able to have a better matchup against your typical T-Tar squads is nice, either dodging a pursuit behind a Sub or getting the chance to Sub up on something and then just click Shadow Ball easily. Works good with other shitty mons like M-Altaria, and Empoleon.
 
Speaking of Gengar...


Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Disable/Taunt

I don't have replays of this set yet, but it's something AM reminded me of having used. As mentioned, Gengar sets up Subs pretty easily by forcing so much out. From there, you can very easily use WoW to hinder physical attackers, which powers up Hex. Disable or Taunt determine which archetype you want to thwart more, balance or stall. Disable forces choiced attackers to switch every time, hilariously blocking Pursuit and allowing to spread more burns and hazard damage. Taunt however is to stop set up mon from stacking hazards, recovering, or using CM, etc. The better choice depends on your team. Nonetheless, works as a great lure if the opponent has a Tyranitar or Weavile as a Pursuit trapper. Shadow Ball can also be used over Hex for more consistent damage and potential SpD drops.
 



Ah Chandelure. Very few offensive mons want to switch into its good neutral coverage backed by an even more impressive base 145 Special Attack. Ghost STAB has especially great coverage and even common dark types that resist Ghost, like Bisharp and Weavile, fear switching in because of your Super Effective Fire STAB. It also boosts nice defensive utility, even when uninvested it boasts three immunities, and some nice resistances to Grass, Bug, Poison, Ice, Steel, and Fairy.

It's a such a shame Chandy has a mediocre 80 speed, making the mediocre Scarf set leave it at the mercy of Chansey, Heatran, waters and grounds, hazards, Sucker Punch and Pursuit users. Sigh, I guess you'll never find yourself viable in OU.

Well, not so fast. In an environment where slow bulky offensive, balance and stall are prevalent, Chandelure can indeed thrive. By scaring switches and setting up on common OU mons, Sub CM Chandy can put in some serious work.

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Flamethrower is chosen over Fire Blast for accuracy and the greater PP, and Fire pairs well with SB's excellent neutral coverage. Substitute protects Chandy from Toxic, Thunder Wave, Spore and Leech Seed and from behind a Sub, Chandy's High Power and Middling Speed put great pressure against unprepared opponents. Max Speed ensures Chandy will always outspeed Scarfless Heatran and Mega Scizor, as well as uninvested Def Landorus and Stallbreaker Mew.

This is a set I have been using in OU to much amusement. In my experience it can easily 6-0 Stall by itself, I kid you not. It is also more than capable against balanced teams. I've even used it effectively against Rain, as Ghost resists on Rain teams are rare.

Don't believe me?

Check out the common threats this thing sets up on:

Chansey
Amoongus
Ferrothorn
Celebi
Mega Venusaur
Magic Guard Clefable
Mega Scizor (Knock Off variants being rare lately)
Jirachi
Mega Charizard Y
Stallbreaker Heatran (Lacking Earth Power, Stone Edge or Roar, also rare lately)
Volcorona
Things choice locked into Normal, Fighting, Fire, Bug, and weaker Ice, Steel or Fairy moves (notably Specs SS Keldeo and Scarf Rapid Spin Excadrill, predictions made easier with Protect)

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Match Ups

Stall

Sub CM Chandy can straight up 6-0s stall teams lacking either Sp Def Talonflame or Sp Def Unaware Clefable, both of which are less seen on stall lately.

It works like this. Get a free switch in on Chansey or Amoongus, either by VoltTurning, Revening or Double Switching, and then throw up a Sub to block any potential status. It's funny, often if you bring Chandy in on Amoongus, the opponent often will mistakenly bring IN Chansey, thinking it can wall it!

Being immune to Seismic Toss, most Chanseys will opt to use Stealth Rock, granting Chandy a free Calm Mind. At that point, it is often already GG for stall. What typically happens after that is your opponents' mad scramble to find a suitable counter.

Let's go through the common Stall mons, shall we?

Predict Unaware Quagsire in coming? Pah whatever. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Def Unaware Quagsire. If you predict the switch, you can kill it before it can even knock your Sub down.

Phasing? Ha! Skarmory dies to Flamethrower as long as Study is down. The sometimes seen Roar Suicune is outsped 2HKOed by Shadow Ball, Roar Suicune can't run Sleep Talk, so this ensures it will have to Use Rest later, ensuring it can only phase it Chandy once.

Mega Sableye gets 2HKOed by Shadow Ball after a CM, as does Alomomola at +1.

Doublade dies quickly to Chandy's Super Effective STABs, as do Chestnaught, Slowbro and Tangrowth.

Ditto can't copy through subs and Pursuit Weavile can't break through Chandy's sub and live through a Flamethrower.

And of course, special walls Chansey and Amoongus are complete set up fodder. Amoongus is one shot by Flamethrower, and Chansey get 2HKO by Flamethrower at +6.

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Balance

On balance builds, Chandy often finds Grass/Heatran/Slowbro cores also at its mercy. Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn are as incapable of touching Chandy as Amoongus, and even AV Tangrowth would do wisely to run from Flamethrower.

Seeing how rare Roar Heatran is lately, and how Earth Power and Stone Edge variants are also becoming less common, Chandy can often exploit Heatran as easily as defensive grass types. Speedy Heatran is outspeed by Chandy and can't do anything it it's the Stallbreaker/PH Solarbeam or Mono attacking Lava Plume with Taunt/Toxic varieties. Toxic gets blocked by a Sub and then Heatran gets CMed on. Chandy still outspeeds Taunt, and can set up a Sub before Heatran can react, making it eat Shadow Balls until it dies or switches out.

Slowbro just dies to Shadow Ball like an idiot. There goes that G/F/W core balance seems to like so much.

How about Fairy/Steel/Dragon cores? Your opponent wants to cover their fire weakness with a water type or bulky ground or L@tias? Shadow Ball to the face murders Latiwins. Mega Scizor has to flat out run from Chandelure, making it set up fodder. Chandy outspeeds Bisharp's Knock Off, and Sucker Punch can be played around with its Subs. Metagross can't Mega Evo against Chandelure, because it's slower and will die to its STABs, as do other slower steel types like Sp Def Jirachi. The common TWave CM Clefable can't stop Chandy either, provided it gets one CM ahead of Clefable.

Chandy can also outspeed and scare out Breloom and Mega Heracross, though it should not set up a Substitute on Mega Hera, as Rock Blast will KO through Substitute. Setting a Sub before Sash Breloom lets it avoid Spore, and the subsequent Flamethrower will neuter it. Being immune to Mach Punch means it won't even take damage after that, and Chandy also resists Bullet Seed.

Speaking of which, what about other things that can hit through Subs? Like Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon or Volcorona? Chandy resists Pixilated Hyper Voice and 4x resists Bug Buzz. These guys can barely ding Chandy, especially after a Calm Mind, and will leave the Substitute in tact. Mega Gard just dies to Shadow Ball and Sylveon is usually CM Fodder.

What about other defensive mons? Max Speed makes Chandy outspeed Bulky Def Landorus and severely damages it with FT. Some bulky waters and Hippowdon can tank some hits, but that still requires them taking down the Sub. If you managed to get a Sub and a CM boost, they'll have an even harder time.

What about u-Turn? That's an effective way to get a Subber out and pivot to a counter, right? Nope, Chandelure 4x resists U-Turn. U-Turning away will not break its Sub.

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Hazards synergy

Have I mentioned that Chandelure is also a spin blocker with great syngery with various Spikes users including Skarmory, Scolipede, Ferrothorn, Klefki and Chestnaught and SR users like Chansey, Landorus and Clefable? Yep! This syngery with hazard stackers further makes Chandy's offensive pressure insane for teams of all kinds to deal with.

Now you may say, "so what?" Starmie and Excadrill can outspeed and kill Chandelure regardless and then spin. Well, yes, this is true. However from behind a Sub, neither can both break a Sub, and survive Chandy's super effective STABs. Furthermore, as previously mentioned, Chandy similarly kills the most common Defogers, L@tias as well as Skarmory and Mew from behind its sub, and if they do Defog, the opponent still has to get rid of the Light Fixture's sub while tanking a hit.

In short: if played right, Chandelure puts tremendous pressure on teams when used in tandem with hazards.

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Checks

Ok ok, I've been gushing about the good. What about the bad? What checks Chandelure?

Hazards:
You might think that Hazards should be on the list, as Chandy's fire typing leaves it weak to Stealth Rock and Spikes, and the less common Toxic Spikes flat out ruins it. While these do limit its effectiveness in how many subs it can produce, but in practice, hazards don't bother this build as much as you might think, as Sub CM Chandy is designed more to set up and dig in, rather than pivot in and out. Still, hazard control should used with Sub CM Chandy to ensure its longevity.

Common hard checks:
Sub up
Tyranitar (and sand in general)
Sp Def Hippowdon
Sp Def Talonflame
AV Tornadus
Bulky waters, like Mega Gyarados, Suicune and Speedy Manaphy
EP, Stone Edge or Roar Heatran
Unaware Clefable

These guys are capable of taking most hits Chandy can dish out from behind a Sub, even when boosted. While Chandy resists Clefable's Fairy STAB, the Unaware version can boost in front of it, outlast it and eventually over power it.

Chandelure struggles against offensive teams loaded with mons that are faster than it, and especially Sand teams, as Tyranitar is a hard check and Hippowdon and Excadrill can force it out if its Sub isn't up. Also, sand deprives Chandy of its Leftovers recover, something it really relies on.

Sub down
Pursuit Weavile
Azurmarril, and other Aqua Jet users
Things that are faster than it, and can force it out

Obviously Chandy is much easier to kill when it's not protected by its Sub. Pursuit Weavile ensures its death with Pursuit, and Azurmarril can either Aqua Jet it or Belly Drum on it.

Less common hard checks
Hydregion
Mega Sharpedo
Mega Houndoom
Crawdaunt
Umbreon

These guys are niche in OU, but they are capable of taking the candle's STABs and hitting back hard.

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Partners

Chandelure has its weaknesses. However by picking partners that specifically counter these threats, Chandelure can really shine in OU, especially with teams that struggle against bulkier builds, like Balance and Stall.

Notable partners include

Mega Diancie: Reflects hazards and improves Chandy's match up against Offense. Diancie beats troublesome Dark types with Moonblast Heatran with Earth Power and Talonflame with Diamond Storm

Grass types: Chandelure struggles against Water, Ground and Rock types, making offensive Grasses like Breloom, Serperior and Mega Sceptile very good with it, as well as defensive options like Tangrowth and Chestnaught, which really help its match up against Sand teams.

Bulky waters: Water types plagued by Grass types love having Chandy on their side, and Chandy appreciates the waters removing ground types and Tyranitar for it.

Hazards users: Chandelure has natural synergy with Spikes users like Skarmory, Chestnaught, Ferrothorn, Klefki and Chestnaught, as well as SR users like Chansey, Clefable and Landorus. Chandelure is good at killing Defogers and Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Excadrill cannot switch in on it.

Defiant users: Bisharp and Thundurus both make good partners with Chandelure and Spikes users as they deter Defog even more, and provide good offensive syngery with Chandelure.

Paralysis support: Rotom W and Clefable can paralyze mons for Chandy, patching up its average speed against offensive teams and give it hax chances to not have its Subs broken, making set up easier.

Edited for clarity and spelling errors. Sorry for the wall o' text!
 
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Offensive Spiker Klefki


Klefki @ Sitrus Berry / other (posted below)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flash Cannon

Basically this set was made to stop Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie from preventing you from Spiking up. The bulk investment allows Klefki to take an Earth Power from Mega Diancie after SR while still being bulky enough to check Weavile, Latios, etc. 4 in speed to outspeed other klefkis. Max SpA to 2HKO Sableye so it cant just eat up your hits and win 1v1. Sick af with Mega Medicham and Alakazam. You could use a couple items, like Air Balloon to get them up on Lando, Sitrus for the extra boost in health, or Mental Herb for Taunts, etc, or Focus Sash to guarantee you live an attack, or Custap, which is cool in tandem with the Diancie calc so you could kill it after you get the boost and then get up a Spike, whatever floats your boat. Using this as your Keldeo or Starmie check is pretty shitty anyway.

252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 192 HP / 60 SpD Klefki: 240-284 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
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Ah Chandelure. Very few offensive mons want to switch into its good neutral coverage backed by an even more impressive base 145 Special Attack. Ghost STAB has especially great coverage and even common dark types that resist Ghost, like Bisharp and Weavile, fear switching in because of your Super Effective Fire STAB. It also boosts nice defensive utility, even when uninvested it boasts three immunities, and some nice resistances to Grass, Bug, Poison, Ice, Steel, and Fairy.

It's a such a shame Chandy has a mediocre 80 speed, making the mediocre Scarf set leave it at the mercy of Chansey, Heatran, waters and grounds, hazards, Sucker Punch and Pursuit users. Sigh, I guess you'll never find yourself viable in OU.

Well, not so fast. In an environment where slow bulky offensive, balance and stall are prevalent, Chandelure can indeed thrive. By scaring switches and setting up on common OU mons, Sub CM Chandy can put in some serious work.

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Flamethrower is chosen over Fire Blast for accuracy and the greater PP, and Fire pairs well with SB's excellent neutral coverage. Substitute protects Chandy from Toxic, Thunder Wave, Spore and Leech Seed and from behind a Sub, Chandy's High Power and Middling Speed put great pressure against unprepared opponents. Max Speed ensures Chandy will always outspeed Scarfless Heatran and Mega Scizor, as well as uninvested Def Landorus and Stallbreaker Mew.

This is a set I have been using in OU to much amusement. In my experience it can easily 6-0 Stall by itself, I kid you not. It is also more than capable against balanced teams. I've even used it effectively against Rain, as Ghost resists on Rain teams are rare.

Don't believe me?

Check out the common threats this thing sets up on:

Chansey
Amoongus
Ferrothorn
Celebi
Mega Venusaur
Magic Guard Clefable
Mega Scizor (Knock Off variants being rare lately)
Jirachi
Mega Charizard Y
Stallbreaker Heatran (Lacking Earth Power, Stone Edge or Roar, also rare lately)
Volcorona
Things choice locked into Normal, Fighting, Fire, Bug, and weaker Ice, Steel or Fairy moves (notably Specs SS Keldeo and Scarf Rapid Spin Excadrill, predictions made easier with Protect)

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Match Ups

Stall

Sub CM Chandy can straight up 6-0s stall teams lacking either Sp Def Talonflame or Sp Def Unaware Clefable, both of which are less seen on stall lately.

It works like this. Get a free switch in on Chansey or Amoongus, either by VoltTurning, Revening or Double Switching, and then throw up a Sub to block any potential status. It's funny, often if you bring Chandy in on Amoongus, the opponent often will mistakenly bring IN Chansey, thinking it can wall it!

Being immune to Seismic Toss, most Chanseys will opt to use Stealth Rock, granting Chandy a free Calm Mind. At that point, it is often already GG for stall. What typically happens after that is your opponents' mad scramble to find a suitable counter.

Let's go through the common Stall mons, shall we?

Predict Unaware Quagsire in coming? Pah whatever. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Def Unaware Quagsire. If you predict the switch, you can kill it before it can even knock your Sub down.

Phasing? Ha! Skarmory dies to Flamethrower as long as Study is down. The sometimes seen Roar Suicune is outsped 2HKOed by Shadow Ball, Roar Suicune can't run Sleep Talk, so this ensures it will have to Use Rest later, ensuring it can only phase it Chandy once.

Mega Sableye gets 2HKOed by Shadow Ball after a CM, as does Alomomola at +1.

Doublade dies quickly to Chandy's Super Effective STABs, as do Chestnaught, Slowbro and Tangrowth.

Ditto can't copy through subs and Pursuit Weavile can't break through Chandy's sub and live through a Flamethrower.

And of course, special walls Chansey and Amoongus are complete set up fodder. Amoongus is one shot by Flamethrower, and Chansey get 2HKO by Flamethrower at +6.

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Balance

On balance builds, Chandy often finds Grass/Heatran/Slowbro cores also at its mercy. Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn are as incapable of touching Chandy as Amoongus, and even AV Tangrowth would do wisely to run from Flamethrower.

Seeing how rare Roar Heatran is lately, and how Earth Power and Stone Edge variants are also becoming less common, Chandy can often exploit Heatran as easily as defensive grass types. Speedy Heatran is outspeed by Chandy and can't do anything it it's the Stallbreaker/PH Solarbeam or Mono attacking Lava Plume with Taunt/Toxic varieties. Toxic gets blocked by a Sub and then Heatran gets CMed on. Chandy still outspeeds Taunt, and can set up a Sub before Heatran can react, making it eat Shadow Balls until it dies or switches out.

Slowbro just dies to Shadow Ball like an idiot. There goes that G/F/W core balance seems to like so much.

How about Fairy/Steel/Dragon cores? Your opponent wants to cover their fire weakness with a water type or bulky ground or L@tias? Shadow Ball to the face murders Latiwins. Mega Scizor has to flat out run from Chandelure, making it set up fodder. Chandy outspeeds Bisharp's Knock Off, and Sucker Punch can be played around with its Subs. Metagross can't Mega Evo against Chandelure, because it's slower and will die to its STABs, as do other slower steel types like Sp Def Jirachi. The common TWave CM Clefable can't stop Chandy either, provided it gets one CM ahead of Clefable.

Chandy can also outspeed and scare out Breloom and Mega Heracross, though it should not set up a Substitute on Mega Hera, as Rock Blast will KO through Substitute. Setting a Sub before Sash Breloom lets it avoid Spore, and the subsequent Flamethrower will neuter it. Being immune to Mach Punch means it won't even take damage after that, and Chandy also resists Bullet Seed.

Speaking of which, what about other things that can hit through Subs? Like Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon or Volcorona? Chandy resists Pixilated Hyper Voice and 4x resists Bug Buzz. These guys can barely ding Chandy, especially after a Calm Mind, and will leave the Substitute in tact. Mega Gard just dies to Shadow Ball and Sylveon is usually CM Fodder.

What about other defensive mons? Max Speed makes Chandy outspeed Bulky Def Landorus and severely damages it with FT. Some bulky waters and Hippowdon can tank some hits, but that still requires them taking down the Sub. If you managed to get a Sub and a CM boost, they'll have an even harder time.

What about u-Turn? That's an effective way to get a Subber out and pivot to a counter, right? Nope, Chandelure 4x resists U-Turn. U-Turning away will not break its Sub.

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Hazards synergy

Have I mentioned that Chandelure is also a spin blocker with great syngery with various Spikes users including Skarmory, Scolipede, Ferrothorn, Klefki and Chestnaught and SR users like Chansey, Landorus and Clefable? Yep! This syngery with hazard stackers further makes Chandy's offensive pressure insane for teams of all kinds to deal with.

Now you may say, "so what?" Starmie and Excadrill can outspeed and kill Chandelure regardless and then spin. Well, yes, this is true. However from behind a Sub, neither can both break a Sub, and survive Chandy's super effective STABs. Furthermore, as previously mentioned, Chandy similarly kills the most common Defogers, L@tias as well as Skarmory and Mew from behind its sub, and if they do Defog, the opponent still has to get rid of the Light Fixture's sub while tanking a hit.

In short: if played right, Chandelure puts tremendous pressure on teams when used in tandem with hazards.

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Checks

Ok ok, I've been gushing about the good. What about the bad? What checks Chandelure?

Hazards:
You might think that Hazards should be on the list, as Chandy's fire typing leaves it weak to Stealth Rock and Spikes, and the less common Toxic Spikes flat out ruins it. While these do limit its effectiveness in how many subs it can produce, but in practice, hazards don't bother this build as much as you might think, as Sub CM Chandy is designed more to set up and dig in, rather than pivot in and out. Still, hazard control should used with Sub CM Chandy to ensure its longevity.

Common hard checks:
Sub up
Tyranitar (and sand in general)
Sp Def Hippowdon
Sp Def Talonflame
AV Tornadus
Bulky waters, like Mega Gyarados, Suicune and Speedy Manaphy
EP, Stone Edge or Roar Heatran
Unaware Clefable

These guys are capable of taking most hits Chandy can dish out from behind a Sub, even when boosted. While Chandy resists Clefable's Fairy STAB, the Unaware version can boost in front of it, outlast it and eventually over power it.

Chandelure struggles against offensive teams loaded with mons that are faster than it, and especially Sand teams, as Tyranitar is a hard check and Hippowdon and Excadrill can force it out if its Sub isn't up. Also, sand deprives Chandy of its Leftovers recover, something it really relies on.

Sub down
Pursuit Weavile
Azurmarril, and other Aqua Jet users
Things that are faster than it, and can force it out

Obviously Chandy is much easier to kill when it's not protected by its Sub. Pursuit Weavile ensures its death with Pursuit, and Azurmarril can either Aqua Jet it or Belly Drum on it.

Less common hard checks
Hydregion
Mega Sharpedo
Mega Houndoom
Crawdaunt
Umbreon

These guys are niche in OU, but they are capable of taking the candle's STABs and hitting back hard.

--------

Partners

Chandelure has its weaknesses. However by picking partners that specifically counter these threats, Chandelure can really shine in OU, especially with teams that struggle against bulkier builds, like Balance and Stall.

Notable partners include

Mega Diancie: Reflects hazards and improves Chandy's match up against Offense. Diancie beats troublesome Dark types with Moonblast Heatran with Earth Power and Talonflame with Diamond Storm

Grass types: Chandelure struggles against Water, Ground and Rock types, making offensive Grasses like Breloom, Serperior and Mega Sceptile very good with it, as well as defensive options like Tangrowth and Chestnaught, which really help its match up against Sand teams.

Bulky waters: Water types plagued by Grass types love having Chandy on their side, and Chandy appreciates the waters removing ground types and Tyranitar for it.

Hazards users: Chandelure has natural synergy with Spikes users like Skarmory, Chestnaught, Ferrothorn, Klefki and Chestnaught, as well as SR users like Chansey, Clefable and Landorus. Chandelure is good at killing Defogers and Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Excadrill cannot switch in on it.

Defiant users: Bisharp and Thundurus both make good partners with Chandelure and Spikes users as they deter Defog even more, and provide good offensive syngery with Chandelure.

Paralysis support: Rotom W and Clefable can paralyze mons for Chandy, patching up its average speed against offensive teams and give it hax chances to not have its Subs broken, making set up easier.

Edited for clarity and spelling errors. Sorry for the wall o' text!
Please get some replays I'd really like to see this thing in action
 
Toxic+Curse Gastrodon

Gastrodon-East @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover

This is a pretty cool set ive been playing around with recently that does a good job at punishing rotom-w who think they can easily halt a sweep by burning you. Just toxic on the switch and they can no longer consistently switch in. This also breaks every bird not named skarm without resorting to waterfall and punishes some other stuff that can see gastro as a free switchin like serp or tang. I dont think im the first person to use this or anything so im not claiming credit for making it but its a pretty solid set nonetheless.

replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-420116613
a bit haxy and such but it shows how toxic let gastro wear rotom down much faster and eventually sweep. it wears lati down as well.
 
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This set has very exploitable weakness to flying types immiute to toxic. Like skarmory, gliscor, magnet rise klefki, any steel type with baloon and any flying type with sub (like hawlucha, set up lando).

Main reason why people use scald is to make this mon painfull for swith in. Burnt switch in is much less viable and toxic deals more damage only if your opponent stays in for more than 4 turns. Rotom almost never stays 4 turns. Latios never stays in 4 turns.
 
zzz

gastro cant break skarm no matter what move it uses lmfao ofc it annoys it more with scald but like... are you kidding? obviously it cant hit skarm rofl i mentioned that in my post and thats a downside of using this set.
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 73-87 (21.8 - 26%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

as for gliscor:
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 150-176 (42.6 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
waterfall gastro variants have to watch out for toxic from taunt variants too sooooooo

magnet rise keys is gastro setup bait are you kidding me

the only steel types that run balloon in ou are heatran and excadrill and that set is pretty rare on both. neither is coming in on you unless they know your moveset beforehand anyways (unless your opp is a literal moron)

hawlucha is a meme mon please dont bring it up like its actually relevant in ou (it can also get toxic'd on the switch)

i havent seen sub lando in 100000 years and its not even on the analysis.

scald doesnt consistently burn stuff like rotom on the switch making it an unreliable option. Toxic lets gastro 1v1 latios when it would otherwise be walled. it also does this with several other birds that can pp stall it otherwise like zapdos. i never even claimed this was better than the standard set either, simply that its a usable alternative that some builds prefer.
 
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Actually, scald burn does break Skarmory because it can't heal up if you're spamming EQ. My issue with scald-less Gastrodon is simply missing out on the benefits of STAB Scald that can't be understated enough. For a wall, Gastrodon has decent special attack to make Scald a nice move for dealing damage. Combine this with the burn chance and you're getting a crap ton of utility out of one moveslot. I'm not saying toxic is useless, since it can be more reliable against stuff like Rotom-W as you mentioned.

Basically passing up scald on a bulky water type is as silly as it sounds if you're simply prioritizing other options. Just run toxic over curse.


also gonna post SD acro gliscor set soon because rock slide gliscor is a dumb set that should never be used.
 
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zzz

gastro cant break skarm no matter what move it uses lmfao ofc it annoys it more with scald but like... are you kidding? obviously it cant hit skarm rofl i mentioned that in my post and thats a downside of using this set.
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 73-87 (21.8 - 26%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

as for gliscor:
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 150-176 (42.6 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
waterfall gastro variants have to watch out for toxic from taunt variants too sooooooo

magnet rise keys is gastro setup bait are you kidding me

the only steel types that run balloon in ou are heatran and excadrill and that set is pretty rare on both. neither is coming in on you unless they know your moveset beforehand anyways (unless your opp is a literal moron)

hawlucha is a meme mon please dont bring it up like its actually relevant in ou (it can also get toxic'd on the switch)

i havent seen sub lando in 100000 years and its not even on the analysis.

scald doesnt consistently burn stuff like rotom on the switch making it an unreliable option. Toxic lets gastro 1v1 latios when it would otherwise be walled. it also does this with several other birds that can pp stall it otherwise like zapdos. i never even claimed this was better than the standard set either, simply that its a usable alternative that some builds prefer.
um...
zzz, jajajaj LOL, LMAO

Is this enough scumbag commnets ? Can we have serious talk like one gentlemen with other getelmen? or you didn't grow up to that level.

Magnet rise klefki PP stalls you always AND leves 3 layers of spikes.

Another thing- amoongus, sub roost zaptos, ferrothorn. You will never do shit to amoongus, you will never do shit to tangrowth because they don't stay in 4 turns. They rarely stay in longer than 2 turns.

Don't say that latios would wall gastrodon because:
a) there is very good curse/waterfall set (which can deal with gliscor)
b) you should simply have something better do teal with latios

Even mega scizor beats this, because eq deals no damage even at +1, it sets up faster with sd and it's not affraid of burn.

Good thing against scald is how versatile it is. Even if you can't deal much damage you brun them to wear them down, support your team, it hits almost anything, even ferrothorn, even grass/poision. It's hits entire meta beside volcanion, which don't want to switch in anyway.

And last thing:

If you take plain comment, just a discussion without any aggression, as an insult, there is something wrong with you.
 
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Seth speaking as former #1 douchebag on the OU forum who's learned from bystanders during my later time as mod you need to chill out. You're not in a position to use the term gentlemen after
um...
zzz, jajajaj LOL, LMAO

Is this enough scumbag commnets ? Can we have serious talk like one gentlemen with other getelmen? or you didn't grow up to that level.
and being one of a handful of people that led the VR thread to be locked with your cringe as hell "arguments". Hailfall didn't even aggressively respond to you anyways.

Take a page from branflakes on how to justify or not justify something.
also gonna post SD acro gliscor set soon because rock slide gliscor is a dumb set that should never be used.
A more offensive variant with Baton Pass over Roost is tight to. Pass to Lopunny or M-Gyarados, although it's dope for M-Hera as a stallbreaker which you'll probably mention.
 
basically the point of toxic curse is to compress the ability to beat most birds with the ability to annoy rotom and stuff on the switch. almost like a middle ground between scald and waterfall. maybe i didnt explain that well. whether or not you think its worth it is up to you, but i would really rather not continue this argument. im sure celtic is more than capable of deciding which sets to archive anyways.
 
Seth speaking as former #1 douchebag on the OU forum who's learned from bystanders during my later time as mod you need to chill out. You're not in a position to use the term gentlemen after
and being one of a handful of people that led the VR thread to be locked with your cringe as hell "arguments". Hailfall didn't even aggressively respond to you anyways.

Take a page from branflakes on how to justify or not justify something.
A more offensive variant with Baton Pass over Roost is tight to. Pass to Lopunny or M-Gyarados, although it's dope for M-Hera as a stallbreaker which you'll probably mention.
basically the point of toxic curse is to compress the ability to beat most birds with the ability to annoy rotom and stuff on the switch. almost like a middle ground between scald and waterfall. maybe i didnt explain that well. whether or not you think its worth it is up to you, but i would really rather not continue this argument. im sure celtic is more than capable of deciding which sets to archive anyways.
You are right. I'm sorry I overreacted because few things from my life make me go crazy.
 
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