Resource ORAS Creative / Underrated Sets

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Celticpride

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Welcome to the third version of the Creative and Underrated movesets thread. This thread serves as a place to share sets that are different from their more common counterparts. While standard sets are standard for a reason, running a creative set can catch an opponent off guard, or may require a different method of dealing with it than its more common variants. A successful set is able to turn metagame trends to its advantage, granting its user an edge over a more common set in certain situations.

A good submission...
  • has a clear reason to be used over a standard set
  • is able to take advantage of common trends in the meta
  • can reliably perform its job
  • is not outclassed by another Pokemon or set
  • is not commonly seen
If you're debating posting something here and you see that it doesn't follow the above guidelines, it's probably a gimmick and doesn't belong here.

Rules
  1. Don't post gimmicks. Please.
  2. Explain what the set does and why you would want to use it. Doesn't need to be an essay, but you should, at the very least, cover the basics. Additional info like potential teammates and cores is also appreciated.
  3. Provide replays of the set in action.
    • Your opponent should be competent.
    • Replays have to be from 1600+ rank on the ladder.
    • Replays can be from any tour that is sponsored on the forums. i.e. no room tours.
    • No private matches can be used as a replay, unless you are facing an identifiable credible player.
    • The set doesn't need to carry the team, but it should at least demonstrate it works by accomplishing its goal.
 

bludz

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Whatup whatup whatup OU forum lets kick this thread off


Volcanion @ Power Herb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Solar Beam

I think I've mentioned this set probably prior to Volcanion's release and have recently tried it out. Of course it does not help against the most common switch-ins to Volcanion - the Lati twins. However many other switch-ins to Volcanion include Slowking, Suicune, Gastrodon, and for teams that don't have great switch-ins, Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and Slowbro. While HP Grass on Specs Volcanion is nice to lure Water/Ground types, it isn't strong enough to OHKO mons like Starmie or even 2HKO most Slowking variants. Power Herb + Solar Beam gives you the power necessary to net OHKOs on mons like Starmie, Rotom, and Slowbro, while Slowking and Suicune require a little bit of chip damage, which isn't hard to achieve if you burn them on the switch with Steam Eruption.

Specs being the go-to set for Volcanion at this point in time makes non-choiced sets powerful because opponents will attempt to take advantage of your choice lock. While other items can still free you up to change moves, Power Herb gives you the ability to blow by many of your would-be counters.

I have one replay below. This is not a particularly good match at all, and I should have definitely lost but I was saved by my trademark lucky and bad play. Still, it showcases Volcanion putting in significant work and it would have put in more if I hadn't sacked my Latios like a fool.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-394436331

I've gotten it to lure Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and mons like Slowking and Suicune on various instances.

I got another one although no replay for this one but if you watch tour play or even just Jamvad on youtube you're probably familiar with this set:


Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Toxic

Pretty sure different people use some different EVs but whatever this is the standard. So the point of this set is to outstall common mons which might 1v1 Starmie normally, such as Gastrodon or Jellicent. Granted these two mons are not particularly common but it also lets you better (better than Scald burns that is) cripple a variety of switch-ins like Slowbro, Latios, Mega Latias, and Mew. It also allows you to beat opposing Starmies 1v1 which is cool. There's probably more to this description that I'm missing but if you haven't seen this set in action yet then you should try it out. Thunder Wave is another move that's seen usage on Starmie but I think that trend is a bit older so I wanted to focus on Toxic, but both are fairly decent given how rare SubCM Keldeo is now.
 
This was accepted into an earlier version of the thread but I don't see it so I'll repost it because it's still relevant and underrated and also copy some of my input of current meta performance from the rankings thread.


Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 96 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast / Earth Power / Dragon Breath
- Roost
- Taunt

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-231438733
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-216318015
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-231674833
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-242793882

Stallbreaker Hydreigon. I've been using this set on and off for months and its simply amazing, it should be way more common. Hydreigon has a phenomenal defensive typing and, as the replays show, when you invest in bulk and Roost you become one hell of an annoying obstacle. Taunt prevents so many things from setting up on you and allows you to abuse a very spammable Dark Pulse against the majority of the tier. Focus Blast or Earth Power is chosen for your coverage based on what you need more help covering for your team but Focus Blast quickly obliterates Tyranitar, Bisharp, Crawdaunt and Mega Gyarados. Earth Power just has better accuracy and can get rid of Heatran easier. What's great is that you can easily maintain momentum by Roosting on U-Turn from anything barring Scizor, as well as some Superpower users, as after the first you can safely Roost. The speed is meant to outspeed Stallbreaker Mew, but you can shoot for less speed and add more to SpA or bulk. 136 EVs for example outspeeds Jolly Bisharp, Tyranitar, Tyrantrum and certain Garchomp.

Hydreigon excels in a bulky meta. What you have here is a fantastic bulky pivot with no SR weakness, immunity to spikes, two immunities and six resistances. Why this is so nice is because Hydreigon has a few tools that make it great against BO, stall and many balance teams. Hydreigon has access to Taunt and Roost. With its very decent 98 speed tier and the right investment, it can switch into tons of slower set up mon like Slowbro, Hippowdon, Celebi, Slowking, Heatran, Skarmory, Chansey, Mew and shut them down with Taunt. Roost and Leftovers help you last a long time this way. Also, you have a very spammable Dark Pulse STAB, strong enough to win over stall wars when they can't recover with Taunt, and with paralysis support, goes much easier with a good paraflinch rate. It's also one of the safer Volcanion switch ins. It very much benefits from a decline in Mega Altaria, and it remains a very good answer to Mega Gyarados and Mega Manectric (HP Ice is 3HKO with Leftovers with full HP, you can always Roost to full).

The other thing to note is just how good he synergizes with several great pokemon. Mega Metagross (or AV Metagross) take Dragon, Fairy and Ice attacks and can Pursuit trap the Latis and threatens Clefable and Mega Diancie with Steel STAB. a bulky Mega Scizor is another great partner, making for better blocks with U-Turn and Bullet Punch for faster threats. Jirachi of course is good for spreading paralysis and Wish. Rotom-W is another naturally bulky partner that can burn or paralyze. While these games are admittedly quite old, they still do demonstrate what its capable of.

Hydreigon is simply one of the best defensive Dark types in OU and that potential is often glossed over for more conventional and, imo, outclassed LO and choice sets. It's bulk is so good it very frequently Roosts on things that carry weak coverage like HP Ice Manectric/Raikou without fear, and Taunt shuts down CM variants. It's very resilient, especially since it doesn't take Spikes damage and neutral SR damage. It pairs well with so many things, like most Steel types to take Dragon, Ice and Fairy attacks. It's very reliable.

Finally, while I haven't tried it out yet, Dragon Breath is decent for a secondary STAB and benefits more than Dragon Pulse with the 30% Paralysis rate. This can benefit Hydreigon further through paraflinching from Dark Pulse. Works very well with Paralysis support in general.
 

WECAMEASROMANS

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Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Adamant nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Roost


A really underrated Dragonite set thats currently not on the analysis for some reason but performs pretty well against a handful of teams so I'm posting it here. This Dragonite takes advantage of teams which pack defensive Landorus-T/Hippowdon as their main Dragonite counter. Because of the soaring popularity of defensive Landorus-T, one of the biggest issues with using standard lum DD Dragonite is that they'll just switch to Lando-t to get an intimidate drop as you DD, then tank your hit and break your multiscale with U-turn and switching to a pokemon, then going back into Lando-t to intimidate you once again to Stone edge you. With this set, leftovers will always recover the HP you lose from u-turn so you'll always be at full health, and you can literally just outstall the stone edges with roost and turn the lando-t into set up bait. This can work in a variety of situations like Hippo as I mentioned. The lack of extremespeed may be troublesome at times but for me I find the extra set up opportunities with leftovers and roost allowing you to continually set up vs a plethora of pokemon much more useful.


Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spatk | 4 Spdef | 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Overheat
- Flash Cannon
- Earth power
- Hidden power Ice | Ancient power

I've used this heatran set various times starting all the way from last year's WCOP and it has always managed to put in work because of the surprise factor and sheer power it packs. People usually go straight into Keldeo vs Heatran as that is their primary Heatran counter and its just so satisfying to see it take upwards of 60% on the switch with overheat so something like a SD bisharp/weavile can break past it later. Flash cannon also does a large amount to +1 clefable and you are still able to 2HKO it even if it boosts on your switch. The last slot is a mix between HP ice and ancient power; I really like hidden power ice atm just because defensive garchomp and defensive lando-t are insanely popular atm and you're able to outspeed both to lure and OHKO them, allowing something like a mega lopunny to just ravage through their team. HP Ice also nails Spdef Gliscor which is usually one of Heatran's best counters. Choice Specs ancient power lets you straight up OHKO spdef talonflame which is always a nuisance.


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP | 236 Def | 16 Spdef | 4 Spe
Bold nature
- Calm Mind
- Sofboiled
- Moonblast
- Toxic

Toxic is a clever and effective option on CM Clefable designed to break through a handful of pokemon that are usually big problems for the standard Clefable packing Flamethrower/Thunder Wave. Toxic enables Clefable to beat things including CM Stored Power Mega Latias, Spdef Talonflame if you toxic it on the switch, Curse Gastrodon, CM Slowbro/Mbro/Slowking, Curse Quagsire, Shedinja, and even Chansey as you're easily able to outstall its 8 heal bell PP with toxic. Not to mention, you're also able to beat Unaware Clefable that thinks it can wall your CM MG Clef. I really think a physically defensive inclined spread of Clefable works the best atm, as Mega Medicham is one of the biggest threats in ORAS rn and being able to avoid the 2HKO from HJK is incredible (most Mega Medi's i've seen nowadays don't run Zen Headbutt so you wall it completely). It also assists balance teams with Mega Heracross better which is usually balance's worst nightmare.
 
I'd like to start by saying that this set isn't necessarily creative or anything of my own creation, but rather something I think is criminally underrated. Interestingly enough, this set somehow doesn't have an on-site analysis as well.

SD LO + 3 Attacks Garchomp:


Garchomp (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance

SD LO Garchomp is probably one of the meta's best breakers at the moment just because of how underprepared fatter builds are for it. Dragon/Ground/Fire coverage is extremely scary on its own, but compounded by the fact that 2/3 of those are STAB and often backed up by and SD, and you have a 'mon that can level standard balance relatively easily. 'Mons like Clefable, Skarm, Hippowdon, and Rotom that think Chomp is handily walled by them are very easy to lure in a dent or outright kill (for example, standard Calm Clef outright folds to a +2 EQ, while max/max Bold Clef takes 95% min), meaning that your cleaner in the back has that much easier of a team doing their job after Chomp's made its rounds. Mega-Lopunny stands out as one of the best partners for this set imo, as there are few things that draw in Lop checks like Chomp—the two share checks like Clef, defensive Lando, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Rotom-W, Tangrowth, and a bunch of other things, meaning that it's pretty easy to pressure them into a useless health range. All in all, this thing is scary. Players should use it more.

Replay
 
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Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Icy Wind/Bulldoze

So Seismitoad has become one of my favorite support SR setters of late. You have a solid Water/Ground defensive typing with the awesome Water Absorb ability and a SR resistance, so you can switch into Thunder Waves and Scalds with impunity. I see people commonly use Earthquake or Earth Power for a secondary STAB but, let's face it, with no investment it does paltry damage. What I find far more useful is Bulldoze as a STAB for the speed drop, but I actually favor Icy Wind overall so that it can hit flying types and Levitate users, in particular, Latios. With the SpD investment, Draco Meteor is incapable of a 2HKO outside of a crit. Meanwhile, you have Knock Off to rid it of its pesky Life Orb, but you can Icy Wind on the switch to make it far more vulnerable against, say, your Charizard X. Just remember not to use it against Serperior however, because that will actually raise its speed.

What I mainly like is the sheer amount of utility this set brings. On top of being a great switch into Water, Fire, Poison, Electric and Rock moves, you spread burns, Knock Off items, set up hazards, and lower the speed of offensive threats putting additional pressure and keeping team momentum in your favor. It's also a total roadblock for Rotom-W and a good switch for Volcanion that don't run HP Grass.

Side note, if you want it to function as a better Keldeo check, maxing defense is necessary to avoid the 2HKO from specs Secret Sword.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-231665185 Not the best, trying out Bulldoze over Icy Wind, but he does eat those Draco Meteors
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-231438733 Same replay as one of my Hydreigon, but it shows Icy Wind prevent a Crawdaunt sweep, block Rotom-W, and pressure M-Sceptile from switching in.
 
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Gengar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Hp / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Trick
- Focus Blast


Gengar has to be one of my favourite mons because it can be ridiculously hard to switch into especially with the addition of specs,This works best with mons who don't like tar as it can either trick specs on to it or ohko it with focus blast, this preforms very well against a lot of play styles for example offense has very few switchins and it's good speed tier also helps it out a lot there,Versus more defensive inclined teams it can usually trick a mon or outright faint it.

a couple other nifty things about this set is it can outplay sucker punches which can help sometimes it's also a huge menace to stall because it can 2hko mega sableye or it can get a trick off against chansey.
 
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Azelf @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP / 128 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Skill Swap
- Stealth Rock
------------------------------
Like many others, I have almost 0 desire to use my brain when I'm laddering. As such, I mostly end up using various iterations of heavy offense since they're mostly pretty mindless and easy to use. One of the first components to many successful heavy offense teams is a lead, and Azelf is almost always the way to go. It's basically the unparalleled best dedicated lead for HO teams, way better than the likes of Skarmory, Aerodactyl, or Terrakion. 99% of the time, Azelf is the best choice if you're looking for a dedicated lead.

This is a pretty cool lead Azelf set that I've been using to quite some success recently and I thought it kinda fit the description of underrated and creative so i thought I'd drop it here as, in my opinion, this is the best Azelf set to be running on the majority of heavy offense, especially on the ladder. The moveset is standard, and is one of the reasons why Azelf is so great. Access to the combination of Taunt and Stealth Rock makes it incredibly easy to get up Stealth Rock against almost any opposing lead, whilst never losing momentum thanks to Explosion. Skill Swap is probably the most common choice for the final moveslot, and allows Azelf to somewhat bypass Magic Bounce leads such as Mega Diancie.

Colbur Berry combined with HP and Def investment are what makes this from the standard spread. I've always been an advocate of bulky lead Azelf, the investment allows it to live the combination of Fake Out + Return from Mega Lopunny (252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Azelf: 76-91 (23.5 - 28.1%) | 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 128 HP / 128 Def Azelf: 195-231 (60.3 - 71.5%) which is generally a good idea, since not being able to get Rocks vs a lead Mega Lopunny is pretty awful. However I started to notice that with the investment, I was almost never being knocked down to Focus Sash. The few things that still brought me down to sash were Choice Scarf Tyranitar's Crunch and Weavile's Knock Off. The only other stuff that can even KO Azelf from turn 1 are; Choice Specs Shadow Ball Raikou (which also has to win a speedtie) and Mega Alakazam (252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Azelf: 294-346 (91 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO).
In short, Colbur Berry seems to be no different from Focus Sash. It still beats the same things, just with the potential to lose to 2 uncommon Pokemon from lead matchup. However, there's one massive thing that makes bulky Colbur Berry Azelf a better lead than Focus Sash, and that's the ability to get Stealth Rock vs Fake Out + Foul Play Mega Sableye reliably. Fake Out + Foul Play Mega Sableye is one of the single most annoying Pokemon for teams with a lead Azelf, because you're forced to double around, and play Skill Swap mindgames to even have a chance to get Stealth Rock up. However, with Colbur Berry, you can take the combination of Knock Off + Foul Play with ease, and will get up Stealth Rock almost 100% of the time in a matchup where you usually would have a lot of trouble doing so.

This replay shows exactly how it works, and whilst the replay also showcases me playing around Shedinja Stall like an idiot, the fact that I was able to get Stealth Rock up on turn 3 put my opponent way on the back foot. I ended up putting the Mega Sableye to sleep, breaking Shedinja's sash, and knocking out the Togekiss just as a result of the pressure Stealth Rock put on the opponent, which leads to me winning the game.

tl;dr
Basically bulky Colbur Berry Lead Azelf is exactly the same thing as the standard Lead Azelf, but has an infinitely better matchup vs one of the most common counterleads in Mega Sableye, whilst also getting Stealth Rock when facing other potentially problematic leads such as Mega Lopunny. Sorry for the essay :>
 

Vertex

my beautiful dark twisted curry

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- U-turn / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

mega heracross and breloom are huge pains in the ass for bulky offense these days because of how the former gets its way past landorus-t because of how stone edge can miss on substitutes and the fact that people don't run leftovers on landorus-t these days (which is fine). however, with hidden power [flying] you gain the ability to nuke mega heracross which kills after two rounds of rocks. the bulkier sets usually force themselves to take more residuals and hidden power [flying] does 68% minimum to 144 hp heracross. breloom as another pain in the ass for balance because of how it can swords dance up after putting landorus-t to sleep and proceed to kill. hidden power [flying] easily kills breloom. outside of these uses, hidden power [flying] has some nice coverage in 2hkoing physically defensive tangrowth and hitting landorus-t a tad bit harder than stone edge.

this set really shouldn't be used unless you want to lure in breloom and mega heracross for your balance teams. i ran u-turn on my team because i had rotom-w as my talonflame check, but if you don't have a secondary check to flyings, i would just ditch u-turn and run stone edge.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-399322271 - high level replay since i broke 2000 elo in this game, but even then, i didn't find my opponent that competent.

this is the only replay i have saved of hidden power [flying] landorus-t in a game because i didn't save the one where i ohkoed breloom turn 1. it doesn't do much outside of scouting landorus-t's item which may not have been possible if i missed a stone edge. outside of that, it did not do much work, but the replay shows how my team loves hidden power [flying] because of how breloom and sd heracross can put huge dents into my team. this replay demonstrates the set more structure wise than the actual work it puts in.

overall, it's a nice set and i hope people get a bit creative and try this out to fix breloom and heracross weaknesses because not every team can afford a grass for the former for example.


Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 24 SpD / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Low Kick / Stone Edge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

this was a catch all check i used because of its niche to check medicham and set up stealth rock making a decent pivot for more offensive teams. medicham is a pain in the ass because offense has no switch-ins but this spread lets you live 2 high jump kicks off the switch while having decent enough special defense to wall mega manectric. will-o-wisp is what makes mew a piece of shit to deal with and i rain low kick to lure in heatran, lum berry bisharp, and tyranitar. stone edge is an option kill talonflame and mega charizard y. the latter in general is amazing right now too. easily the mega the has risen the most in ladder play next to mega medicham in my experiences. roost lets you keep your health which is self explanatory.

you can try other options just because of its extraordinary movepool. i ran colbur berry + u-turn back in the day just to kill the god that was hoopa hahaha.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-397961982 - v. a hyper offense

mew ended up burning tyranitar after hoopa-c was removed from the picture. after stalling out a few crunches, i was able to finish him off with low kick. mew pretty much solo'd the rest of his team at this point showing how it was able to set up stealth rock while performing its normal duties. however, my opponent gets a critical hit with lopunny when mew 1v1'd the rest of his team and proceeds to talk shit when he is clearly an inferior player to me

Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

this is more of an underrated set than a creative set because this thing has been existence for a while, but no one uses it. focus sash garchomp is honestly amazing right now due to its ability to remove big threats like latios, weavile, and various rain sweepers which shit on offense like kingdra, omastar, and kabutops. stealth rock is the move right now and garchomp is a great user of it as always. the focus sash can also net you two kills if you time a swords dance correctly. i can see why this set has fallen to other items like lum berry and life orb, but focus sash is still a very solid item.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-395224017 - v. bc wish killer actually using a different team.

this replay shows how latios being removed turn 1 is pretty useful for keldeo even though he did have slowbro as a secondary check. however, the difference latios can heavily pressure my team and having a big threat out of the way is a great way to start off the game. there isn't much to see in this replay outside of my mega altaria getting lucked the shit out of late-game

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-394886912 - v. foxlord's darkspam team

this replay doesn't exactly show garchomp's focus sash actually being activated, but it displays how the reason i was able to stay in the game is because how i had garchomp's focus sash as a last resort option if all else fails. turn 14 is the pivotal turn because i could've let garchomp get to 1% to kill latias but it wasn't big enough a threat compared to weavile. i would rather have garchomp's sash be used on killing weavile because killing latias would not be smart because of how weavile was the bigger threat. the replay shows how i can preserve the sash in order for me to the get the 100% way to win by using garchomp's sash correctly.
 
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Manaphy @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Scald
- Psychic
- Tail Glow


This Manaphy set is very underrated and creative at the same time, i've seen players like Ben Gay, or others use this set, Manaphy is good with Substitute because it can't get damaged by status moves like Thunder Wave, Toxic, which gives a good Match Up agaisn't Stall, in other way Salac Berry works here because makes Manaphy faster helping outspeed Fast threats, like Lopunny, Landorus-Therian Scarf and more, giving a good match up agaisn't HO too, Tail Glow just sweep with Scald to burn threats and Psychic to stop water Bulky types, Like Volcanion, Gastrodon or Poliwrath, also u don't get walled by Venusaur Mega Defensive or Water Absorb types, The evs spread on HP make it divisible by 4, It can be a modest nature with less speed.
Unfortunatly, i dont have replays to show at the moment, but with this set, I peaked 1700 easily.
 

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Roar (Haven't tested much of Roar as of yet)

Ok, hear me out on this one. I know this may seem really weird, but I gave it a try for about 20 games and it worked wonders. Yes, Suicune exists but the thing that Keldeo has over Suicune is to put consistent pressure on Pokemon such as SD Bisharp, CB Tyranitar,Scizor-Mega(the kids who run SD Bug Bite, etc. while not relying on Scald burns (I mean it isn't a bad idea right kappa). Keldeo even gets Roar which is also becoming a popular move to run on Suicune nowadays. Of course, Suicune has the ability to pressure stall but I think its a pretty fair trade between the two when Keldeo takes 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Keldeo: 105-125 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage , 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery. Just something really fun I enjoyed using a lot and thought I'd share it despite it may be considered gimmicky to others.

(GAMEFREAK COULD JUST LET POLIWRATH LEARN CALM MIND)
 

Posho

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Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower / Sucker Punch
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Sucker Punch
- Sludge Wave

Nidoking has been gaining a lot of popularity, it's kinda become more common to see it and let me tell you why: the versatile movepool this monster has makes it a complete threat, there's no mon in this meta besides cresselia and chansey that can take on this really well, it's basically a guaranteed kill if you play it well. This is currently the best moveset to run on it, as it has sheer force it adds x1.3 more power to all those moves and also adding that the ability nulifies the life orb recoil which is good for nido's longevity. Sucker Punch could be added in case you want to take mons like lati@s or alakazam by suprise, but I guess that's not needed if you run suitable partners for it.
 

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower / Sucker Punch
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Sucker Punch
- Sludge Wave

Nidoking has been gaining a lot of popularity, it's kinda become more common to see it and let me tell you why: the versatile movepool this monster has makes it a complete threat, there's no mon in this meta besides cresselia and chansey that can take on this really well, it's basically a guaranteed kill if you play it well. This is currently the best moveset to run on it, as it has sheer force it adds x1.3 more power to all those moves and also adding that the ability nulifies the life orb recoil which is good for nido's longevity. Sucker Punch could be added in case you want to take mons like lati@s or alakazam by suprise, but I guess that's not needed if you run suitable partners for it.
Lol, thats not creative Nido, that a Standart Nido. Actually I prefer Nidoqueen in almost every single archetype of teams when I have to choose between the 2, but for the purpouse of the thread I will post a set that King does better and IS creative:


Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave

Tip: use this with some common mons that are threatened by a Mega-Diancie sent in turn 1. Something like Tornadus-T or a Zard.

So, the opponent will think that you will start with your Torna-T. You send this Nido and in the turn of Protect, use Sub. Wish good luck to your opponent, especially if he uses an Offense or Balance, because with just 3 offensive moves, Nido´s coverage and great power are enough to threaten almost every possible Switch-In. It does not only work against a Mega-Diancie, you can use sub against a Lando-T or Chomp if you suspect them to be a deffensive ( and therefore slow) variant. Something like SR Jirachi or Tran ( which unless Scarf and Air Baloon you always outspeed and force out), Clefable, Gardevoir pre-Mega or Mega-Altaria also work to create a free turn for using a Substitute. Its also possible to send Nido mid/late game and avoid a Bisharp´s Sucker Punch. You can even use Susbtitute against a Rotom-W and just wait until you dodge a HPump.

Unfortunately I don,t have Replays with the set, as the only team where I tried it is a fun one with shit like Vivillon and Cloyster, but I swear it works.

PD: Posho sucks so hard.
 
Sucker Punch Nidoking is creative tho but yeah, i've considered Sub Nidoking before, never used it but it seemed good in theory, the concept is simple, you use it to ease prediction so you avoid pivoting and not killing anything due to misprediction, is similar to Sub Gengar so i can see it working, yeah losing Flamethrower sucks and that's why i haven't got to use Sub Nido yet but you can use it on teams with Magnezone i guess.
 

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Roar (Haven't tested much of Roar as of yet)

Ok, hear me out on this one. I know this may seem really weird, but I gave it a try for about 20 games and it worked wonders. Yes, Suicune exists but the thing that Keldeo has over Suicune is to put consistent pressure on Pokemon such as SD Bisharp, CB Tyranitar,Scizor-Mega(the kids who run SD Bug Bite, etc. while not relying on Scald burns (I mean it isn't a bad idea right kappa). Keldeo even gets Roar which is also becoming a popular move to run on Suicune nowadays. Of course, Suicune has the ability to pressure stall but I think its a pretty fair trade between the two when Keldeo takes 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Keldeo: 105-125 (27.2 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage , 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery. Just something really fun I enjoyed using a lot and thought I'd share it despite it may be considered gimmicky to others.
(GAMEFREAK COULD JUST LET POLIWRATH LEARN CALM MIND)
Personally I think a ChestoRest set or simply Substitute would be better so you can get Secret Sword back in there and I think Keldeo really wants its speed tier, especially for Terrakion and not being outsped by M-Gardevoir, Char-y or M-Medicham. These are HUGE threats you can't afford to be slower than. While Keldeo does have certain nice resistances it also has far more weaknesses to exploit, which is partially why CroCune is so good in the first place. Pure Water typing defensively is superb with only two weaknesses (and relatively uncommon STABs at that), not to mention CroCune doesn't have a speed tier like Keldeo's it really wants to abuse, and 100/115/115 is substantially bulkier than 91/90/90. I think that's why Subtitute is more popular overall, because it protects you from things like Talonflame. As for the Tyranitar calc vs Suicune, I wouldn't recommend switching Suicune into a banded Tar in the first place, but if no SR on the field it's only 21% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers and Sand and that's not factoring either the 30% burn rate from Scald or having to hit twice with Stone Edge's 80% accuracy minimum. So I feel that point is kind of moot. What Keldeo DOES have over Suicune is Taunt, a better tool for an offensive pokemon like Keldeo than Roar, better suited for Suicune.


Lol, thats not creative Nido, that a Standart Nido. Actually I prefer Nidoqueen in almost every single archetype of teams when I have to choose between the 2, but for the purpouse of the thread I will post a set that King does better and IS creative:


Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave

Tip: use this with some common mons that are threatened by a Mega-Diancie sent in turn 1. Something like Tornadus-T or a Zard.

So, the opponent will think that you will start with your Torna-T. You send this Nido and in the turn of Protect, use Sub. Wish good luck to your opponent, especially if he uses an Offense or Balance, because with just 3 offensive moves, Nido´s coverage and great power are enough to threaten almost every possible Switch-In. It does not only work against a Mega-Diancie, you can use sub against a Lando-T or Chomp if you suspect them to be a deffensive ( and therefore slow) variant. Something like SR Jirachi or Tran ( which unless Scarf and Air Baloon you always outspeed and force out), Clefable, Gardevoir pre-Mega or Mega-Altaria also work to create a free turn for using a Substitute. Its also possible to send Nido mid/late game and avoid a Bisharp´s Sucker Punch. You can even use Susbtitute against a Rotom-W and just wait until you dodge a HPump.

Unfortunately I don,t have Replays with the set, as the only team where I tried it is a fun one with shit like Vivillon and Cloyster, but I swear it works.

PD: Posho sucks so hard.
This is neat but I question the use of Ice Beam as the last coverage over either Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. I really think you want something that can hit Skarmory hard. Sludge Wave will kill Latios after SR and one LO recoil after all. And Flamethrower is really nice for instantly dispatching bulky Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn (Earth Power is 3HKO on Ferro).
 
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bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Can you guys post replays please and thanks. This way there will be less questioning of sets since you can actually see them being used.

Personally I would really like to see the RestTalk CM Keldeo in action because I don't see the merit to it really. Suicune with Roar at least beats other CMers like Slowbro which normally win CM wars with Psyshock, but Keldeo just gets blown back.
 

Talonflame @ Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird / Acrobatics
- Flare Blitz
- Natural Gift

Variant set with Sword Dance. Basically they differentiated by a movement which can be decisive in some battles: Don Natural. According to Berry equipped change type and be physical, so we can eliminate some of their checks or common counters by it and the base damage will be 100. With Berry Lichi, Don Natural is the plant type and thus you will Rotom-W end after a boost Sword Dance and some residual damage. With Aslac Berry, Don Natural will become the Lucha type and we can certainly beat Heatran and Tyranitar KO power. Finally, we can use Berry Ice Gonlan type to hit Landorus-T. You can use the Acrobat movement instead of Bird Osado to avoid residual damage and also its power is used when the Baya has already been used, although not using it weaken berry.
 

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Don't be frail, just be musced! I actually use this "old" set on highladder. Popular in early DPP, Cursepert is very effective against common threats (electrics-, clefable, tornadus-t AV). He needs a different support than his brother the RDsweeper. Toxic spikes are mandatory, not just to bypass bulkies water-typed and unaware Pokémon but also shorter the opponent life (and turn) to avoid crit. In reward, you gain a great win con who only can be defeated by specific conditions (grass-typed moves, crit, foul play or a bunch of sacrifice)

Don't even compare Cursepert with CurseGastrodon or CurseQuagsire no one has 150 BS in attack, no one can takes hits on the both sides with ease and no one can be too muscled.

Replay (I share my personnal and private logs (you can't find it on replay.showdown) who only demonstred positive points, don't complain about it)
http://pastebin.com/Sbr87AYC (M-Swampert beats CM Clefable in 1v1)
 

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Don't be frail, just be musced! I actually use this "old" set on highladder. Popular in early DPP, Cursepert is very effective against common threats (electrics-, clefable, tornadus-t AV). He needs a different support than his brother the RDsweeper. Toxic spikes are mandatory, not just to bypass bulkies water-typed and unaware Pokémon but also shorter the opponent life (and turn) to avoid crit. In reward, you gain a great win con who only can be defeated by specific conditions (grass-typed moves, crit, foul play or a bunch of sacrifice)

Don't even compare Cursepert with CurseGastrodon or CurseQuagsire no one has 150 BS in attack, no one can takes hits on the both sides with ease and no one can be too muscled.

Replay (I share my personnal and private logs (you can't find it on replay.showdown) who only demonstred positive points, don't complain about it)
http://pastebin.com/Sbr87AYC (M-Swampert beats CM Clefable in 1v1)
Yeah I know this set, I've used it in the past. If TSpikes is mandatory how do you ever muscle past Amoonguss who stops this set cold and TSpikes? It's not exactly rare either. The Clefable point is fine, AV Torn-T kind of sucks now (to me personally) so it's really w/e, and I'm pretty sure the Unaware users are found on stall primarily which include M-Sableye so that's gonna be tough to ever lay down A Tspike.

As far as not comparing what you said shouldn't be compared, Curse Quagsire is specific to one team / archetype to not be blown back by CM Clefable, while Curse Gastrodon provides utility in actually soaking up hits from water, something M-Swampert will unfortunately not have the luxury to provide. You're comparing apples and oranges then saying we should value one over the other for some specific reasons.

I wouldn't take this as a bash but as someone who's used this set and for awhile now hasn't justified it for a team to be used effectively I don't see what the sell is here. I also read through the paste a bit and most of it I saw was the same things Gastrodon could've done in the first place while providing another mega. The player also spent a good amount of the time getting Manaphy chipped, which even for all the other water comparisons is an issue, along with the fact the guys archetype is known for having issues with bulkier waters. I agree with bludz on more emphasis with some actual replays, although the paste kind of helps here. Some of these sets have been really nice in theory but I don't see how they're justified without some concrete evidence or the large opportunity cost you put on yourself by running them.
 
Curstpert must be compared with other ground/water-typed Pokémon. I'm largely agree with that, with me. All mons work well in archetyped teams, this way they're effective and the teams are archetypes or they will become.
However, Cursedon and Cursepert are different.
1. Surprise factor vs mega slot.
2. Instan power. Gastrodon has a laughlable attack and must carrie scald to be threaten in mid game in this way you fear statuts who's bad for a curse user. And didn't makes easy to bypass stallbreaker (Gliscor / Talonflame)
3. Overall bulk, moreover one didn't likes knock off (or trick), statuts, the other didn't likes strong water moves.

Def
Gastrodon
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 417-492 (97.8 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 210-247 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 231-273 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 203-239 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Swampert 252 hp / 252 SpD
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Swampert: 163-193 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Swampert: 325-384 (80.4 - 95%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 157-187 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Off
Gastrodon
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 150-176 (42.6 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
Swamper
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 146-174 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Swampert
0 Atk burned Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 162-192 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 8 Def Gliscor: 204-240 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

Amoonguss is an hard counter as well as MVenusaur, it's like you said M-Sableye is an hard counter to M-Medicham and you must not play cham because sab. I'm not too smart, but in a way indulgent to recognize if you need an other mega, you must use Cursedon. Otherway you must choose Cursepert who needs to fit in specific team based around him and only him.
 

Brave Bird (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD or <-- use this one to 2HKO Azumarill
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Atk / 160 Spe <-- use this one to outspeed adamant Excadrill and 2HKO 0/252 Chansey
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Substitute

Charizard X is a pokemon whose drop in usage genuinely amazes me. The DD set is absurdly threatening and basically forces a switch to a 'counter' at risk of losing, while the traditional defensive set just cripples things like Landorus-T or Hippowdon switch-ins. Unfortunately the meta got fatter and there are now a substantial number of pokemon that can handle Charizard at +1 by taking the hit or using t-wave to cripple. (Honestly if Lando just disappeared from the meta, everything would fall apart b/c of how broken Charizard would be.)

This set aims to slot Charizard into the bulkier meta and you can probably draw some parallels to the subRoost Kyurem-Black sets. The goal is to increase the longevity of Charizard and continually threaten balance teams with the stupid power of flare blitz. The basic premise with substitute is to use it whenever you would otherwise be clicking dragon dance. What typically happens next with normal substitute sets is Lando-T switches in, you get to flare blitz once and are then forced out with at most 75%. Dragon tail let's you then punish whatever switched in, by compounding hazard damage, doing a HEFTY chunk with the 60 BP STAB, and taking momentum from your opponent. HP EV's mean that non-CB Azumarill's aqua jet will not break the sub.

With its bulky set, Charizard can readily check electrics and can get up a slow substitute against most neutral hits, allowing it to heal off hazard damage with roost or get free attacks. Setting up on ferrothorn no longer runs the risk of getting t-waved.

As far as teammates are concerned, hazard support is still required. I used a bulky Excadrill and bulky Lando-T to provide hazard removal and setting, respectively, while cleric Togekiss or Clefable partner very well with Charizard to avoid Dragons and keep the team healthy in general.

Edit: I want to expand on this, since I didn't make it entirely clear why you might want to use this over defensive Zard X or subRoost Kyu-B or even Garchomp.

Defensive Zard X loses out on a lot of wallbreaking ability with attack investment. This set can break through any variant of megaSab or clefable and will not lose momentum to regular checks like Slowbro, since you can sub on T-wave and then just phase them out. Compared to Kyurem Black, you have a much better defensive typing and aren't hardwalled by Scizor. You might make the argument that if you are going to be clicking dragontail, you are better off using a fatter dragon like Garchomp, however Charizard hits WAYYY harder with dragontail and again doesn't get hard stopped by fairies.

For example:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 338-398 (113 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 194-230 (64.8 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-401958700
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-401946570
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-402701162
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-402703027
 
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So I recently made a team around banded Ferrothorn, and I reached and stayed in fairly high elo, which is pretty good considering I'm a bad battler. I believe this man needs some love, as it proves to be surprisingly effective even against opponents who already know the set.

Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Explosion
- Bulldoze

With 248 HP and it's natural bulk, it is still bulky enough to check the things you normally switch in to, like Manaphy and Azumarill, however this Ferrothorn hits back very hard, and is, unlike regular Ferrothorn, difficult to set up on. His STAB alone is incredibly strong, OHKO'ing, for example, stuff like Clefable and Slowbro after rocks. However, it also demolishes stuff people often like to switch in to Ferrothorn, while expecting Leech Seed/Spikes, like Latios wanting to remove hazards, Talonflame, and Thundurus.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 215-253 (71.9 - 84.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 385-454 (128.7 - 151.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 213-252 (59.3 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 367-433 (140.6 - 165.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Additionally, Bulldoze is a really cool move as 99% of people I battle will consistently switch in their Heatran or Magnezone, making the switch in very predictable.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-388 (101.5 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While this set does rely quite a bit on the surprise factor, it will, against offence, if played correctly, very consistently grab 2-3 kills even if the opponent knows about it, as it switches in quite easily on a lot of stuff and they tend to have no real answers to it.
Choice Band Ferrothorn doesn't enjoy facing stall as much, but the main switch in there will typically be Skarmory, and the team I'm using it with has a Magnezone+Mega-Pinsir core, so baiting in Skarmory is very appreciated (I never see Shed Shell Skarmory nowadays). Other stuff like Mega-Sableye will get killed with some prior damage:
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 195-229 (64.1 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also, let's not forget that you do have explosion, that can really help to get a surprise kill.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Explosion vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Amoonguss: 402-474 (93 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-403352415
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-403834281
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-404395325
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-404393311

Overall, I believe not only that even though Choice Band Ferrothorn might seem like a kinda shitty gimmick at first glance, it easily grabs some important kills as the opponent doesn't expect it, but also that it can be very viable, and even good with the correct support, even without the surprise factor.
 
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Reuniclus
@ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Focus MISS Blast
- Recover
- Trick

Reuniclus is a fantastic Pokemon, you can reduce the attack on ITS rival, with the flame orb while Prevents problems of state, used to recover retrieve PS, psyshock Receives STAB and Blissey and Chansey Serves to. Focus Blast is for Tyranitar or other dark / rock. Heatran also. This bug is very versatile. I put Flame Orb, but with Toxic Orb + same set serves as an example. But I see this more determinant on the other.
 
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