ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

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The hell are doing Simipour and Swanna here? The same with Leavanny, for some reason Kricke is here and she isnt.
And PU Slaking is like RU Claydol.

Regice sounds insane, maybe AV Relicanth (new meta/pure theorymon) can be a good counter.
Swoobat can be dangerous, but Regice, Murkrow and Vula can handle him pretty well.

I can see Frogadier being a top tier threat, only Regice stop him from being S-rank material.
 
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FU is interesting as using mon wch is not used any where in higher tier Magmar is really a big threat in this meta having decent speed to outspeed many pokemon and amount of spp Att it KO many grass,bug with fire moves,fighting,poison with psyhic.ice and even attacking neutral with fire blast can help in many way this pokemon may be one of biggest threat in this meta also no pokemon will want to come and take damage frm it.With ability like vital spirit it can also counter completing pokemon like butterfly wch uses sleep powder and boost their stats moveset like fire blast/psyhic/focus blast/hp grass can be very help full in this meta
 

Gary

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Alright so somehow Halcyon, Don Honch and I can magically see into the future and predicted Tennisace to create this thread before today so we've been playing FU since Saturday and it's a pretty interesting metagame to say the least. Sticky Web is extremely powerful because of the sheer amount of Pokemon in this tier that are slow but are complete monsters when everything is slowed down, such as CB Zweilous, DD Fraxure, Raticate, Octillery, Seviper, etc. Kricketune is FU for some reason and it basically guarantees webs, it's pretty dumb. I'd go as far to say that it's pretty unhealthy for the tier considering that FU has very limited options when it comes to hazard removers and it has 3 perfectly good users of Sticky Web, on top of the fact most of the meta is slow and powerful.

Spikes are also extremely common in this meta. Glalie, Dwebble, Quilladen, Roselia, Pineco, and Maractus are just a few viable users I can name off the top of my head, and there's loads more. Dwebble and Pineco with Mental Herb and Studry guarantee at least Stealth Rock; Pineco can even spin opposing hazards away since lead match ups are ridiculously common. Again, lack of really solid hazard removers makes it really easy to build a Spike stack HO team and proceed to penetrate the opposing team early on in the match with shit like NP monkeys, DD Fraxure, and Guts Raticate.

The three monkeys are amazing in this meta, Simipour being borderline broken. It has amazing coverage with just Ice Beam/Grass Knot alone, and a +2 LO Hydro is going to level most of the tier. Simisage is pretty much the only Grass-type in the tier that can sweep consistently, and Simisear is pretty much the best Fire-type hands down. Fraxure is just plan retarded, I'm going to put that out there. When Halcyon and I came up with the idea of FU several days ago, we actually decided to ban Fraxure to see if the meta would become less shit without it, and it did. When it comes to solid counters, it has none. Metang is about as good as it got, otherwise we were using shit like Wormadam-Trash. Really bulky shit like Quilladin that can actually take hits from hit are complete set up bait against the Taunt variants, which are the best. Other bulky shit like Regice and Gigalith die to a +1 Low Kick. Then you have WigglyTuff and Clefairy, both who die to Poison Jab if they became popularized enough to counter it. It has decent bulk with Eviolite, making it hard to revenge kill but not too bad, however when paired with Kricketune very little can reliably revenge kill it. Meta became so much better once it was quick banned.

Another Poke that runs this tier with an iron hoof is Sawsfuck. Lord jesus christ this thing was probably the most stupid of them all. On its own, it's already an incredible Pokemon. One of the best answers to Normal spam, Gigalith, is decimated by a +2 LO Horn Leech, while Magcargo and Regice get dropped kicked by Jump Kick. Basically anything on an offensive team that didn't resist Double-Edge was going to be OHKOed, and with its decent Speed tier and Sticky Web support, it was honestly too easy. That's not it though. A friend of mine tried it on a sun team which is pretty damn easy to pull off seeing as how FU has Volbeat, and if you were using any sort of offense against sun Sawsbuck, it was pretty much an instant GG. We hated the immense amount of pressure Sawsbuck brought to pretty much every single team that lacked something extremely bulky like Quiladin or Metang, and how when paired with Sticky Web or sun support, it could 6-0 most offensive teams.

There's so much more I can talk about but I could go on for days. A couple of us put together a WIP viability ranking thread where we would fill out and update frequently after testing. I made short little paragraphs under each Pokemon just to clarify why I think it deserves the rank, considering how young the meta is and how most might not know why a certain Pokemon is S rank for example. There's so much more to experiment with and the meta is far too young to really draw any conclusions other than a select few that we made amongst each other when we first started testing. I look forward to finally being able to test out FU with a larger player base than just like 5 people LOL.

Here's the ranking thread by the way. Please feel free to contribute to it.
http://piratepad.net/LVbN2OoTLl

Also here's a banner I made earlier today which I was going to use when ever I decided to make this tier official, but I got beat to the punch so I might as well still show it off anyway. You don't have to use it but it's better than nothing.

 
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The three monkeys are amazing in this meta, Simipour being borderline broken. It has amazing coverage with just Ice Beam/Grass Knot alone, and a +2 LO Hydro is going to level most of the tier. Simisage is pretty much the only Grass-type in the tier that can sweep consistently, and Simisear is pretty much the best Fire-type hands down.
Yeahh Randbats players have known how scary Simisear and Simipour can be with a boost so I'm not surprised. Mono Fire and Water are good enough defensive typings, and they're (relatively) really fast.

Curious as to what Simisear set you guys are running. I think I got a NP/Substitute/Fire Blast/Focus Blast set in Randbats once that completely obliterated the opposition (but you had to run focus blast...).

What's scary is that you might even be able to run both. Simipour has great supereffective coverage to weaken mons (or do a mini-sweep), while simisear cleans (maybe vice versa, but I feel substitute is better on simisear to block status for the endgame).

Also Stunfisk is an underrated mon with a great defensive typing and good enough support movepool. Hoping it can put in some work in FU.
 
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wishes

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Yay! A tier where Simipour is an S Rank Pokemon, the day has finally come :]. Anyways, this metagame looks like a lot of fun. I'm quite interested in Linoone, it's going to be hard to stop imo with the only Steel-types in the tier being Wormadam, NFEs, and LC Pokemon. This can be mitigated by running either Electabuzz or Diglett, I guess, but it could be a neat Pokemon. Also, Heatmor just barely misses the cut off :[. Looks fun overall though, Swoobat might be a tad too strong.
 

Halcyon.

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Well Ive been talking about making an FU tier since Gen V but I guess that's cool.

Regice and Quilladin are both incredible Pokemon and wall a large majority of the tier on their own outside of stuff like Simisear. Speaking of, I think the Monkeys make for amazing sweepers, scarf Pokemon, and wall breakers with specs or SubNP. All three are really good from what I've seen and can even be used on the same team to wear down special walls and Eviolite Dragons. Also speaking of Dragons, Gabite and Zweilous are probably my favorite Pokemon right now. Home Claws SR Gabite is a great offensive rocker, being pretty dang bulky with Eviolite and strong with Life Orb. Unfortunately no SD :[. But Banded Zweilous is fucking terrifying. It does like 80% to even Quilladin. I guess Clefairy might be a problem for it, but I'm not sure how effective that will be. On an unrelated note, Frogadier is really fun too, being really strong thanks to Protean and decent all around coverage. Unfortunately it's not nearly as fast as its evolved form but still very effective.

Anyway I guess this is a thing now. Gonna go cry in the corner at my missed opportunity.
 
a tier lower than pu is like a dream come true...can Butterfree finally be a threat now?
I feel the most pity for Articuno...hopefully it can see some play here and does not fall lower to a possible BU (Barely Used) or something

Why isn't Luvdisc mentioned in the OP...too irrelevant or is it used that much? (not trying to mention Unown yet)
 
Can already tell that Sun is gonna be the primary weather in FU tier:p
Other than that it seems really fun and I'm very interested in the development of the tier:)
 

atomicllamas

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Why isn't Luvdisc mentioned in the OP...too irrelevant or is it used that much? (not trying to mention Unown yet)
Because the majority of this tier was either NU or NU viable last gen, and Luvdisc will probably never be competitively viable.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
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It would probably help to have a banlist up in the OP (Besides the obvious PU banlist) since people might get confused and really don't want to look through the usage stats, so here's a banlist in alphabetical order for you to put in the OP.

Altaria, Aurorus, Avalugg, Barbaracle, Basculin, Bastiodon, Beheeyem, Bouffalant, Camerupt, Carracosta, Chatot, Dodrio, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Electrode, Flareon, Floatzel, Garbodor, Gogoat, Golem, Gourgeist-Super, Haunter, Heatmor, Kadabra, Kecleon, Kingler, Lickilicky, Luxray, Mantine, Marowak, Mightyena, Mr. Mime, Musharna, Ninetales, Pelipper, Piloswine, Poliwrath, Purugly, Raichu, Rampardos, Rapidash, Rotom-Frost, Scyther, Serperior, Slaking, Sneasel, Stoutland, Tangela, Tauros, Throh, Togetic, Torterra, Ursaring, Wartortle, Zebstrika
 
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PU should become an official tier, it's not a bad idea. And now just when I wanted another tier below PU, the FU (Florida University) tier. I can now tell my opponents in OU that use these outclassed shitmons that they can't be serious. But I do see a few that shouldn't be here: Articuno, Regice, Meowstic, and the Semi-monkies are really under appreciated. Oh and there's my beloved Glaceon. Some of these Pokemon are good in PU according to the viability thread. It's funny how the usage stats do not match up with that viability thread, hence Slaking got over 3.4% usage.

Edit: my browser didn't refresh so didn't see later posts. I think Articuno should be ranked higher and let's not forget about FEAR Pokemon.
 
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Gary

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I played a few more battles today, and I'm happy to see that people are already beginning to realize how absolutely ridiculous Regice is. The other Ice-types that reside in the tier, such as Glaceon, Articuno, and Vanniluxe are interesting and need to be experimented with, but in all honesty it's really hard to consider them over Regice. Glaceon is more of a nuke with Choice Specs, but it lacks the pure bulk of Regice, while still maintaining a solid amount of offensive presence. Articuno has reliable recovery and Defog, but as a defensive wall or bulky attacker, my go to Ice-type would have to be Regice. Vanniluxe is just completely outclassed as a sweeper, because Regice can pull off a better Rock Polish set thanks to its better movepool and bulk. Here's the set:


Regice @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Max SpA and a Modest nature give it as much power as possible, while the EVs in HP give it a Life Orb number. The Speed EVs are for outspeeding Scarf Krokorok at +2. Even after a Rock Polish, Regice doesn't even hit 400 Speed with a Modest nature, meaning that it's going to be outsped by faster Scarfers such as Electabuzz and Simisear, but other than that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. Ice Beam is for obligatory STAB, and hits really hard coming off of a solid 100 SpA stat. Focus Blast lets it hit Gigalith and opposing Regice (very important) for super effective damage. Thunderbolt is there for Swanna, Relicanth, Tentacool, Simipour, Lapras, and anything else that resists Ice Beam. Although Sticky Web support is always nice to give it some sort of edge over offense before it sets up, Spikes support is better appreciated because it secures a lot more OHKOs that it might barely miss out on. Swanna is a good partner to this set because it can not only remove entry hazards that threaten to weaken Regice, but the two also have fantastic offensive and defensive synergy; Regice can set up on Pokemon that threaten Swanna, while Swanna beats Simisear and Fighting-types. This set will also need something to break through really bulky special walls that would wall this set otherwise, such as Grumpig, Clefairy, Metang, and even opposing Regice to an extent. CB Zweilous breaks through all the aftermentioned Pokemon with the exception of Clefairy with ease, while SD Guts Raticate with Crunch can pretty much level anything that could possibly keep Regice from sweeping.

Give this set a try! Regice is basically jesus in this metagame, so there's nothing to lose by using it.
 
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Imanalt

I'm the coolest girl you'll ever meet
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I played a few more battles today, and I'm happy to see that people are already beginning to realize how absolutely ridiculous Regice is. The other Ice-types that reside in the tier, such as Glaceon, Articuno, and Vanniluxe are interesting and need to be experimented with, but in all honesty it's really hard to consider them over Regice. Glaceon is more of a nuke with Choice Specs, but it lacks the pure bulk of Regice, while still maintaining a solid amount of offensive presence. Articuno has reliable recovery and Defog, but as a defensive wall or bulky attacker, my go to Ice-type would have to be Regice. Vanniluxe is just completely outclassed as a sweeper, because Regice can pull off a better Rock Polish set thanks to its better movepool and bulk. Here's the set:


Regice @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Max SpA and a Modest nature give it as much power as possible, while the EVs in HP give it a Life Orb number. Even after a Rock Polish, Regice doesn't even hit 400 Speed with a Modest nature, meaning that it's going to be outsped by faster Scarfers such as Electabuzz and Simisear, but other than that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. Ice Beam is for obligatory STAB, and hits really hard coming off of a solid 100 SpA stat. Focus Blast lets it hit Gigalith and opposing Regice (very important) for super effective damage. Thunderbolt is there for Swanna, Relicanth, Tentacool, Simipour, Lapras, and anything else that resists Ice Beam. Although Sticky Web support is always nice to give it some sort of edge over offense before it sets up, Spikes support is better appreciated because it secures a lot more OHKOs that it might barely miss out on. Swanna is a good partner to this set because it can not only remove entry hazards that threaten to weaken Regice, but the two also have fantastic offensive and defensive synergy; Regice can set up on Pokemon that threaten Swanna, while Swanna beats Simisear and Fighting-types. This set will also need something to break through really bulky special walls that would wall this set otherwise, such as Grumpig, Clefairy, Metang, and even opposing Regice to an extent. CB Zweilous breaks through all the aftermentioned Pokemon with the exception of Clefairy with ease, while SD Guts Raticate with Crunch can pretty much level anything that could possibly keep Regice from sweeping.

Give this set a try! Regice is basically jesus in this metagame, so there's nothing to lose by using it.
What does that speed number hit? I would probably recommend either 176 speed to outrun swoobat at +2 or 200 speed to outrun scarf krokorok
 
I played a few more battles today, and I'm happy to see that people are already beginning to realize how absolutely ridiculous Regice is. The other Ice-types that reside in the tier, such as Glaceon, Articuno, and Vanniluxe are interesting and need to be experimented with, but in all honesty it's really hard to consider them over Regice. Glaceon is more of a nuke with Choice Specs, but it lacks the pure bulk of Regice, while still maintaining a solid amount of offensive presence. Articuno has reliable recovery and Defog, but as a defensive wall or bulky attacker, my go to Ice-type would have to be Regice. Vanniluxe is just completely outclassed as a sweeper, because Regice can pull off a better Rock Polish set thanks to its better movepool and bulk. Here's the set:


Regice @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Max SpA and a Modest nature give it as much power as possible, while the EVs in HP give it a Life Orb number. Even after a Rock Polish, Regice doesn't even hit 400 Speed with a Modest nature, meaning that it's going to be outsped by faster Scarfers such as Electabuzz and Simisear, but other than that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. Ice Beam is for obligatory STAB, and hits really hard coming off of a solid 100 SpA stat. Focus Blast lets it hit Gigalith and opposing Regice (very important) for super effective damage. Thunderbolt is there for Swanna, Relicanth, Tentacool, Simipour, Lapras, and anything else that resists Ice Beam. Although Sticky Web support is always nice to give it some sort of edge over offense before it sets up, Spikes support is better appreciated because it secures a lot more OHKOs that it might barely miss out on. Swanna is a good partner to this set because it can not only remove entry hazards that threaten to weaken Regice, but the two also have fantastic offensive and defensive synergy; Regice can set up on Pokemon that threaten Swanna, while Swanna beats Simisear and Fighting-types. This set will also need something to break through really bulky special walls that would wall this set otherwise, such as Grumpig, Clefairy, Metang, and even opposing Regice to an extent. CB Zweilous breaks through all the aftermentioned Pokemon with the exception of Clefairy with ease, while SD Guts Raticate with Crunch can pretty much level anything that could possibly keep Regice from sweeping.

Give this set a try! Regice is basically jesus in this metagame, so there's nothing to lose by using it.
Or you can go HAM and run weakness policy
 
There are quite a few Pokemon that may quite be utterly broken in this tier or shouldn't be in the tier to begin with like Butterfree, Sawsbuck, Kricketune, Simipour, and the list goes on. It's nice to see the lower tiers shine and I'll put my input on some of these Pokemon.

Offensive teams will be a pain as Pokemon like Kricketune, Frogadier, etc. and others are in the tier. They can hit pretty hard for the stats they have or they can either support the rest of their teammates like Kricketune does with Sticky Web. Some other things that'll be tierbreaking is Carbink + Victreebel. These mons easily complement each other in their typing while Carbink is bulky enough to set up Sunny Day for Victreebel to put huge dents in teams with its Grass / Poison / Fire coverage. l About Butterfree, its monoattacking set is probably one of the best to use imo. Substitute / Bug Buzz / Quiver Dance / Sleep Powder. Substitute can be used to avoid any residual damage or being paralyzed using sub and can set up QD. Butterfree also doesn't worry about other Substitutes because Bug Buzz hits through them which plays a big part why Butterfree is so good. l Simipour shouldn't even be in the tier. Its Nasty Plot set is too strong. It will literally break through the whole meta. #plsban
 
I think Zweilous is going to be pretty damn good in this metagame. The only Steel-type is Klang which is 2HKO'd by Superpower. The only 2 Fairy-types are Carbink, which is 2HKO'd by Aqua Tail, and Wigglytuff, which is also 2HKO'd by Aqua Tail.

Bad calcs, these things can all take 2 hits from CS Zweilous. The thing still hits like a truck, though.
252 Atk Hustle Zweilous Superpower vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 294-348 (95.1 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO


Zweilous @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Aqua Tail

Jolly scarf puts Zweilous at 354 speed which outspeeds everything below 110 base.
 
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I think Zweilous is going to be pretty damn good in this metagame. The only Steel-type is Klang which is 2HKO'd by Superpower. The only 2 Fairy-types are Carbink, which is 2HKO'd by Aqua Tail, and Wigglytuff, which is also 2HKO'd by Aqua Tail.

Bad calcs, these things can all take 2 hits from CS Zweilous. The thing still hits like a truck, though.
252 Atk Hustle Zweilous Superpower vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 294-348 (95.1 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO


Zweilous @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Aqua Tail

Jolly scarf puts Zweilous at 354 speed which outspeeds everything below 110 base.
Zweilous can be pretty threatening but that miss chance from Hustle is pretty disgusting... also, Hustle Jolly Zweilous is weaker and slower than +1 DD Jolly Fraxure, that has the chance of switching moves, or keep boosting...
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 362-428 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Hustle Zweilous Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 294-346 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fraxure also have Superpower for Regice, Outrage for STAB and Aqua Tail for Coverage (Even have Poison Jab against fairies)... so, i think it's pretty outclassed unless you have that much trouble Setting up and need to get power right off the bat...
 

Imanalt

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Zweilous can be pretty threatening but that miss chance from Hustle is pretty disgusting... also, Hustle Jolly Zweilous is weaker and slower than +1 DD Jolly Fraxure, that has the chance of switching moves, or keep boosting...
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 362-428 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Hustle Zweilous Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 294-346 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fraxure also have Superpower for Regice, Outrage for STAB and Aqua Tail for Coverage (Even have Poison Jab against fairies)... so, i think it's pretty outclassed unless you have that much trouble Setting up and need to get power right off the bat...
except... Fraxure needs a turn of set up to do it... A 'mon isn't outclassed because another mon is better once its set up. Zweilous also has a HUGE niche as one of the best answers to swoobat, as its dark typing allows it to take most anything even at +2, and kill back.Fraxure is the better sweeper, but zweilous is better for running cb (Cb zweilous is TERROR for defensive teams, as it has basically no solid switchins outside of something like wormadam-trash) or for running scarf. Scarf zweilous is unfortunately slow however, so I do think band is its best set.
 
How Articuno is here? that thing might have a terrible typing but its stats are going to wall alot. Also this is a thing XD. Is there going to be a lower tier then FU? what would we even call it?
 
except... Fraxure needs a turn of set up to do it... A 'mon isn't outclassed because another mon is better once its set up. Zweilous also has a HUGE niche as one of the best answers to swoobat, as its dark typing allows it to take most anything even at +2, and kill back.Fraxure is the better sweeper, but zweilous is better for running cb (Cb zweilous is TERROR for defensive teams, as it has basically no solid switchins outside of something like wormadam-trash) or for running scarf. Scarf zweilous is unfortunately slow however, so I do think band is its best set.
Yup... it needs the turn to set up, but CS Zweilous will need a lot more of prediction to work effectively (Especially in the switch in) since isn't exactly bulky without eviolite, and Fraxure can come in and scare things (remember that its natural attack isn't exactly shabby at a base 117 BP) to get that setup turn without much of a need. Also... you know how unreliable are Focus Miss and Stone Edge... that can also be said about Hustle Zweilous...

IMO Zweilous can be a lot better with a massively wallbreaker CB Adamant Hustle set, that not only makes it absurdly strong but also separates its job from other pokés like Fraxure or Shelgon...

Also, Articuno truly has a pathetic typing, but even Delibird have a niche with that typing and even less Speed than Articuno... i guess it can be really good against spikes and TS stacking teams without a decent SR user to get a Defog and try to stall with Toxic, Ice Beam and Roost... i dunno... U_U
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
How Articuno is here? that thing might have a terrible typing but its stats are going to wall alot. Also this is a thing XD. Is there going to be a lower tier then FU? what would we even call it?
The "If Pikachu isn't viable here I swear" Used tier. Or, iPiVhISU. Slides off the tongue doesn't it?

Articuno, if random battles are anything to judge by, is going to be a defensive threat. It gets Defog if you really want to use it for that, reliable recovery, and has quite good stats.
 

Imanalt

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is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
regice >>>> articuno is the big problem. If regice goes, then articuno will probably be pretty decent, but until that point i wouldnt ever use it.
 
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