ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

[termi]

Can someone tell me why mightyena is A-, its move pool is so bad when I look at it and I don't see why it's so good outside of its mostly dark type movepool

Powerful STAB priority, Moxie allows it to accumulate boosts while killing things, there aren't a lot of Dark resists in FU (especially with Machoke gone) and it doesn't need a very wide movepool when its STABs + Play Rough hits such a big portion of the meta already.

 

[mediocremon]

Can someone tell me why mightyena is A-, its move pool is so bad when I look at it and I don't see why it's so good outside of its mostly dark type movepool

Crunch, Sucker Punch, Play Rough, all the fangs or taunt he haves a great movepool for a late game sweeper specially with his powerful stab sucker punch and amazing ability being moxie. I think it is well deserved to be A-.
Sorry for bad english :p

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Mighyena is also one of the few pychically offensive mons that can break Metang without any set up whatso ever, +1 Sucker is very powerful against offensive teams and 90 atk is pretty decent in this tier. I do however think that it should drop to B+ because even in FU 70 base speed is quite low for an offensive mon

 

[Clarisaxx22]

Fixed some stuff on piratepad (sorta) Piratepad is a bit behind on the rankings and stuff, fixed Banlist and labeled what should be ranked. You're all welcome

 

[Hipster doofus]

Not sure if this Politoed set is viable but it has worked wonders for me in FU

Politoed @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Encore
- Scald
- Toxic
- Ice Beam/Icy Wind

It has excellent special bulk and gets a free switch in on Water attacks. I haven't seen much people using this guy but Politoed has been reliable for me as a special tank. It also enjoys Wish support. I thought about an Assault Vest set too but Politoed's coverage moves and its Special Attack isn't too appealing.

 

[HOTSHOCK]

What's a good offensive core right now? I'm trying to get into this tier but I keep getting rekt.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

What's a good offensive core right now? I'm trying to get into this tier but I keep getting rekt.

I like to build around one of the monkeys (the simi's) after that you can use sawsbuck,Gogoat, rapidash, kingler, or huntail for a FWG core. Some other choices would be a scarfer like gabite, krokorok or Electabuzz.

Personally, I'd recommend Simisear, Gogoat, Kingler, and Electabuzz, along with GABITE or krokorok for HO

 

[_PokemonBreeder_Forrest_]

I scanned through all of the posts and I haven't seen this set mentioned yet so I feel like I should say something.

Krokorok @Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Impish
252 Hp
252 Defense
4 Attack

-Earthquake
-Knock Off
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt

I believe this pokemon usually runs a Choice Scarf set but this thing is pretty bulky with the Eviolite+Intimidate combo even with his 60/45/45 defenses, however, his main concern lies in his multiple weaknesses. This doesn't stop Krokorok from soft checking a few of the tier's most potent threats at the moment.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Krokorok: 123-144 (37.9 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Arbok Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Krokorok: 68-81 (20.9 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
(After a coil so he is at +0)

4 Atk Krokorok Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Arbok: 168-198 (80.2 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

52 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Krokorok: 140-166 (43.2 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% to 2HKO
(after a Dragon Dance, also I'm just using the sets the calculator gave me I'm not sure if this is the norm for Fraxure)

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Fearow Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Krokorok: 100-118 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 58.5% chance to 3HKO

I'm not saying he is the bulkiest thing in the tier, just that I believe he has a definite niche seeing as he has acces to a semi fast Taunt, Stealth Rocks, momentum killer for Volt Switchers (I'm looking at you Electabuzz) and STAB Knock Off. I'm not sure if he is even worth a spot on a team but I intend to try him out soon.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

P.S.: this is the internet, are you honestly still surprised to see people throw slurs left and right?

Well, yes I'm still surprised because how easy they write such a mean thing. I think we need a sort of "filter", y'know what I mean?

Guess the tier leader really is inferior to a badgeless nobody with 16 posts!

I don't go to forums often, I'm playing, that's all. But yeah, if I want to write my opinion, I'll be there.

Maybe if you kept reading you'd realize I wasn't directing it towards you .-. I was just saying that anyone in general that runs both Low Kick and Poison Jab is really missing out on abusing Fraxure's full potential, but if you're the kind of person that does that and I offended you I apologize. I forget sometimes how some people are easily offend able on this site.

I don't use Fraxure yet, but I underestand your point of view. But +1 would be risky to stall it. And how much its Speed is lowered when it's paralyzed?

Also a few changes to the ranking thread. Cuno was raised to S rank because at the moment it's easily one of the best Pokemon in the meta. Although Machoke didn't really appreciate Cuno's presence, it was still kind of a hindrance for Cuno, especially for its choiced sets, as it had to rely on Hurricane to beat it, and I'm pretty sure even with a Life Orb Machoke has a chance to live it. I feel like Cuno was always an S rank threat, but a lot of people were just over exaggerating its SR weakness and ignoring just how incredible it is on its own.

Its defenses are great, yes, but its Ice and Flying types are one the worst defensively typing in the game: SR hinders it, walled by Steel-Types, even a HP Ground can't 2HKO them since most of them relies on Eviolite, Hurricane is the only good Flying STAB for Articuno but its accuracy and PP ruin it. SubRoost is, for me, is the best set since it can stall with Pressure+ Toxic.

 

[termi]

Elecktrochoko Cuno has flaws, but so do all Pokemon. What makes Cuno an S rank threat is that its flaws are very overcomeable: Defog support allows you to rid the field from rocks, but even if that fails Cuno can still manage, depending on its set. For example, an Agility set only needs to come in once and set up to get its job done, and even after taking 50% from rocks it has so much bulk that it can easily take a hit from a more defensively minded mon and set up. It being walled by Steel-types is actually way less of a problem than you make it out to be, for one because all the viable Steel-types in FU have no reliable way of recovery (bar like RestTalk Klang, which is hard to fit on an offensive team) and considering they often have to switch in on multiple things, they will get worn down easily, and second of all because many teams simply can't afford to run a Steel-type to begin with. Many of the Steel-types in FU are simply too damn passive to be easy to fit on any team, and there's only a couple of viable Steels in FU anyway (Metang, Klang and Lairon). More often than not you can't fit them on your team without becoming weak to a lot of other things, so in the end being walled by Steels is a nuisance at worst. Meanwhile, Hurricane's accuracy is kind of annoying, but it never stopped Moltres from becoming an S rank RU threat and neither does it stop Articuno from becoming an S rank FU threat. In the end it's still extremely bulky, very strong and versatile and most definitely deserving of its rank.

Also, if you haven't even played with Fraxure you will have to come up with more convincing arguments if you want to be credible at all. The fact that you don't know that paralysis lowers speed by x0.25 doesn't help you either. We encourage everyone to post, but make sure that when you do, you have sufficient metagame knowledge. Maybe play a little more, take advice from renowned players and you'll come a long way :]

Also a word filter is a stupid idea (we already have one for the words (BAN ME PLEASE) got and nig ger by the way) so let's stop bringing that up. Doesn't relate to FU anyway.

 

[Ryan432]

I'm surprised no one has brought up that Huntail and Regigigas are fucking great together

Huntail @ White Herb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Waterfall
- Crunch

Huntail is one of the best sweepers in the tier and it gets even better when it baton passes into Regigas bringing Regi back to normal which is still outstanding. Waterfall is the main stab here and crunch is to deal with gourgeist.

Regigigas @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Facade/Power-Up Punch
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch

With shell smash bringing Regi back to normal stats, its op af with an attack stat of 419 and 328 speed. It only gets better once Slow start wears off if the other team hasn't been swept already. Return is the main stab and with knock off and drain punch it provides excellent coverage and somewhat reliable recovery. Everybody just loves to status Regigigas so facade just fucks them up although power-up punch can be used to boost that attack stat through the fucking roof or if your using Regi solo. Leftovers can be used if you want more recovery but Life orb can be used to rape things a little bit more.

 

[Skankovich]

I feel smashpassing to regi is kind of a waste, besides its huge bulk you're better off passing into something with already-good offensive stats than compensating for its crippling ability. Like a smashpass to Fraxure gives you 666 attack and 512 speed with jolly, and its also pretty bulky and has a useful defensive type.

EDIT: Had a great battle on the ladder before against someone who I think is on here? But idk might be an alt or something. Anyway it was stall vs defensive balance and was a really nice game, and was close despite hax:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fu-202025670

 

[SacredGengar]

Hipster doofus ever thought of trying the perish song set? :]

 

[Gary]

Yeah Huntail is very good at the moment. It can sweep unprepared teams all by itself with ease, but the fact that it can easily just pass its boosts to something like Simisear, Rapidash, Seviper, Fraxure, Raticate, etc. when it can't sweep on its own, makes it that much more intimidating to face. I've been using SS Huntail + LO Seviper recently, and it's an incredible offensive core that just completely obliterates teams if given a chance to set up and pass. Huntail only really needs Waterfall and Ice Beam to be a threat itself, as a +2 Ice Beam easily OHKOs Gourgeist-S as well as Quilldin with just a little bit of residual damage. Anything else that gives it trouble such as Clefairy, Spritzee, Gogoat, and Metang are just destroyed by Seviper anyway.

Also here's a set set/Pokemon that I've yet to see anyone use and I'm actually very surprised considering how strong it is:

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam

Rampardos has the highest Attack stat of any Pokemon in FU, hell its Attack stat rivals that of many Pokemon found in OU, so down here pretty much everything is going to be 2HKOed if not OHKOed. However, its Speed tier is rather lackluster, even in FU, so a Choice Scarf remedies this very nicely, putting it ahead of most of the offensive metagame (up to Jumpluff). Because it's still outsped by most boosting sweepers, Scarf Rampardos isn't primarily used as a revenge killer, rather it's better off as a cleaner or an early game wallbreaker that can basically start spamming Head Smash turn 1 against offensive teams. Head Smash is so damn powerful that it can even 2HKO Quilladin after SR, which is pretty cool for a physically offensive Pokemon. Head Smash needs to be used sparingly though; because while it is very powerful, it heavily weakens Rampardos, leaving it very susceptible to priority and other Choice Scarf users. Earthquake is its best option for Lairon, Metang, and Klang. Rock Slide is a good back up STAB when you don't want to take the recoil from Head Smash, and it's more accurate too. Ice Beam rounds off the set because it lets Rampardos OHKO offensive Gabite, which it otherwise can't do.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I'm surprised no one has brought up that Huntail and Regigigas are fucking great together

Huntail @ White Herb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Waterfall
- Crunch

Huntail is one of the best sweepers in the tier and it gets even better when it baton passes into Regigas bringing Regi back to normal which is still outstanding. Waterfall is the main stab here and crunch is to deal with gourgeist.

Regigigas @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Facade/Power-Up Punch
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch

With shell smash bringing Regi back to normal stats, its op af with an attack stat of 419 and 328 speed. It only gets better once Slow start wears off if the other team hasn't been swept already. Return is the main stab and with knock off and drain punch it provides excellent coverage and somewhat reliable recovery. Everybody just loves to status Regigigas so facade just fucks them up although power-up punch can be used to boost that attack stat through the fucking roof or if your using Regi solo. Leftovers can be used if you want more recovery but Life orb can be used to rape things a little bit more.

I call it RegiPass, the (somehow) subpar strategy to fixed crippled regi while getting a insane boost to offenses after getting out of the slow start

 

[MZ]

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Clefairy is criminally underrated right now. While utility with SR over CM is good, the amount of teams this 6-0'd is insane. Fairy typing means that Fraxure also can't lock itself into outrage immediately. Clefairy as a whole is just stupidly underrated in FU, and far too many teams have 1 or no counters at all for it.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

What's a good offensive core right now? I'm trying to get into this tier but I keep getting rekt.

DD Fraxure + Scarf Gabite + Sub Coil Arbok makes for a great offensive core atm, It does not like Articuno but Can deal with everything trying to be bulky

Yeah Huntail is very good at the moment. It can sweep unprepared teams all by itself with ease, but the fact that it can easily just pass its boosts to something like Simisear, Rapidash, Seviper, Fraxure, Raticate, etc. when it can't sweep on its own, makes it that much more intimidating to face. I've been using SS Huntail + LO Seviper recently, and it's an incredible offensive core that just completely obliterates teams if given a chance to set up and pass. Huntail only really needs Waterfall and Ice Beam to be a threat itself, as a +2 Ice Beam easily OHKOs Gourgeist-S as well as Quilldin with just a little bit of residual damage. Anything else that gives it trouble such as Clefairy, Spritzee, Gogoat, and Metang are just destroyed by Seviper anyway.

Also here's a set set/Pokemon that I've yet to see anyone use and I'm actually very surprised considering how strong it is:

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam

Rampardos has the highest Attack stat of any Pokemon in FU, hell its Attack stat rivals that of many Pokemon found in OU, so down here pretty much everything is going to be 2HKOed if not OHKOed. However, its Speed tier is rather lackluster, even in FU, so a Choice Scarf remedies this very nicely, putting it ahead of most of the offensive metagame (up to Jumpluff). Because it's still outsped by most boosting sweepers, Scarf Rampardos isn't primarily used as a revenge killer, rather it's better off as a cleaner or an early game wallbreaker that can basically start spamming Head Smash turn 1 against offensive teams. Head Smash is so damn powerful that it can even 2HKO Quilladin after SR, which is pretty cool for a physically offensive Pokemon. Head Smash needs to be used sparingly though; because while it is very powerful, it heavily weakens Rampardos, leaving it very susceptible to priority and other Choice Scarf users. Earthquake is its best option for Lairon, Metang, and Klang. Rock Slide is a good back up STAB when you don't want to take the recoil from Head Smash, and it's more accurate too. Ice Beam rounds off the set because it lets Rampardos OHKO offensive Gabite, which it otherwise can't do.

on phone do this will be short, but what do you think of the specially based mix set? ( Smash, fire blast, boltbeam) with SF +LO ramp hits super hard, and you dont need any offensive investment in Atk since 165 Batk+150 BP STAB is retarded already.
I used the set quite often on sticky web but i'Ve failed to put ramp to good use post-web ban


Also megazard, dont post your speed creep :]

 

[MZ]

Edited out speed creep. To give the post purpose, I like offensive smash Huntail better than pass now that sucker punch is legal. I can't post these calcs because I'm on mobile, but it's faster than scarf Krokorok with a plus speed nature, has a 93.8% chance to OHKO scarf electabuzz with a plus 2 non life orb sucker punch after rocks and easily kills Eviolite sets with waterfall, OHKO's 252/0 smallgeist with ice beam, and destroys quilladin with a 4 special attack ice beam with a little prior damage (37.5% chance to OHKO after rocks). The only current threats that it doesn't currently wreck (especially with a life orb) are specially defensive gogoat, regigigas, and physically defensive Clefairy (the former and latter need pretty much max Spdef/def to stop LO variants). Oh, and Kingler I guess

Edit: keep in mind these calcs are +speed no lo, as weak as huntail gets after a smash

 

[glock in my toyota]

ayy lmao first post here but it won't be the last.

I'm here to talk about a set that I've had a lot of success with recently on the ladder as the only offensive spinblocker/win-con in this tier that can force so many wins it's honestly a little ridiculous. I run it with some simple Rocks + Spikes Hazard support, and it works wonders. Here it is...

muh balloons.

Drifblim @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Drifblim is one win condition that I have been having a lot of fun with. I use on a simple hazard stack team, using a Servine to benefit from Defogs, gaining Evasion from them. Drifblim's set may seem strange, but it's really rather simple. You come in on something that you can take a hit from (or is straight up set-up bait), set up calm mind, or rest on the hit, and activate chesto, once you go for rest, when at low health. From here, Drifblim hits over 510 Speed thanks to Unburden, outspeeding even Scarf Electabuzz, which is the fastest viable scarf user in FU. Drifblim's coverage options allow it to hit most of the tier neutrally/super-effectively, barring Sawsbuck (which can't really hurt you), and a few others. +1 STAB Shadow Ball really hurts the meta, and +1 T-Bolt can just kill every bulky water in the tier except for Spdef Prinplup, which IMO isn't as good as physdef in the first place. Being weak to Sucker Punch isn't too much of a problem, as only 2 things viably run Sucker here, Murkrow (sometimes), and Arbok, and not to mention Drifblim can mindgame Sucker and go for CM, forcing 50/50s.

TL;DR: Drifblim is a kick-ass spinblocker and win-con, use it.

 

[About 7 Kidz]

So just found out.. Luxray is in FU.. I know its potential is extreme but has anyone had a ton of success with it..
Also general discussion on it. :]

 

[Gary]

So just found out.. Luxray is in FU.. I know its potential is extreme but has anyone had a ton of success with it..
Also general discussion on it. :]

To be honest Luxray has been a pretty big disappointment for me. The Guts set is almost entirely outclassed by both Raticate and Ursaring; both of them have access to SD, much higher Speed, and the former has priority. There really isn't anything specific that Guts Luxray does that Raticate and Ursaring can't already do better. Also, if you use Luxray on a team, you're preventing yourself from using E-Buzz, the best Pokemon in the tier. It's strong, but it's slow as fuck, and as an Electric-type Buzz just does so much better.

I've been experimenting with a few other sets though and they've definitely proven to be decent, which is why I placed Luxray in B+ at the moment. Intimidate is a really rare ability in FU, and with the massive amount of physical attackers in the tier, it comes to good use. Because of Luxray high Attack stat, good coverage, and access to Volt Switch, I thought that a Scarf set would make for a great offensive pivot, much like how Mega Manectric works in OU. With a Choice Scarf it outspeeds the entire unboosted meta bar Ninjask of course, but it gets Intimidated which is pretty nice. Intimidate is also nice because of how it could potentially allow a teammate to come in and set up on them basically for free. For example Intimidating a Gabite or a Rapidash so Huntail can come in for free and potentially set up a Shell Smash on them. CB Luxray has also proven to be decent, but again, it's very slow for an offensive Pokemon, and while it packs a huge punch a slow, choice locked Electric-type is never that amazing in a tier full of dangerous offensive Ground- and Grass-types.

This set is pretty good though, as it is a solid revenge killer and packs quite a whollop compared to most of the weak Scarfers in the tier. If you play it to its strengths, it's a pretty cool Scarfer.

Luxray @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Ice Fang
- Superpower
- Volt Switch

 

[RawMelon]

So just found out.. Luxray is in FU.. I know its potential is extreme but has anyone had a ton of success with it..
Also general discussion on it. :]

Last night I won the FU tournament in the tournaments room using Band Luxray.

Luxray @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Volt Switch

I've found that Luxray functions well as a lead on my team. Not much likes switching in its moves and if you do see a potential switch in just hit them Volt Switch. Most people don't run more than 1-2 defensive mons, usually Metang in my experience which dies after a few Crunches with no reliable recovery. I prefer bulk > speed with intimidate to switch in on a lot of threats. The bulk also helps when switching into Electabuzz and you can just hit Volt Switch to slow pivot or Superpower which has a 40% chance to kill Eviolite Buzz with rocks up. Wild Charge is great to spam and if you suggest krok or Gabite will come in just hit Superpower.

 

[Magis4Life]

Yeah, banded luxray hits really hard, but the lack of speed and overwhelming presence of ground and grass types can be irritating. Personally I prefer the scarf set with ice fang, as it makes a solid revenge killer and somewhat of a pivot with volt switch + intimidate. Even though electabuzz overall serves better purposes, the nice overall power on the physical side and intimidate I feel give it enough of a niche. Another electric type in general is always nice for beating common defoggers like swanna, articuno, and prinplup.
Also I especially enjoy using scarf Staravia + hazard stacking offense.
Staravia @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- U-turn
- Quick Attack
Scarf Staravia is a pretty awesome cleaner atm, as it still packs a lot of punch with reckless brave bird +double edge while also outspeeding scarf krokorok and below, which is pretty sweet.

 

[saucemonkey1]

So if there's one Pokemon I think is wholly underrated and unduly ignored, it would be Dewgong. Now, I'm sure most people who just read that are laughing in my face right now, but take a quick look at Dewgong and you can see why it would be absolutely viable in a metagame like this! This is usually the set I use:

Dewgong @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Shard
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet

So right off the bat you can probably tell what sets Dewgong apart from many other Pokemon, and that is its access to three priority attacks, 2 of which it gains STAB from. Now in any other meta this would be laughable, but it's amazing what this guy can do to some of the top tier threats in FU. It can potentially take out Simisage/Simisear with a combination of Fake Out and Aqua Jet/Ice Shard, can OHKO both Krokorok and Gabite with Ice Shard, and can even potentially take off over 60% of an Eviolite Fraxure's health. Gogoat even takes around 45-50% damage from a single Ice Shard. Dewgong can potentially take over half of the health of all top tier threats with only priority attacks under its belt, which is nothing short of amazing in a tier filled with Pokemon weak to Water and Ice-type attacks. With some Stealth Rocks/Spikes or any previous damage, Dewgong can really show what it's made of. Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[Gary]

Ursaring is joining Buzz and friends in S rank. If anyone has actually been using Quick Feet Ursaring recently, you'd realize how fucking amazing it is right now and how almost every offensive team just gets completely slaughtered by it. Because of its access to SD, it's not a liability against bulkier teams either, as it can muscle through shit very easily with a +2 Facade. I honestly see no reason to use the Guts set anymore, especially with Sticky Web banned, as Raticate is much better as a Guts wallbreaker anyway. However, Quick Feet Ursaring is so freaking amazing for its ability to outspeed E-buzz and Rapidash, two of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier, as well as packing a huge punch which keeps it from ever being a liability. It also is nearly unwallable because nothing in the tier can really wall Facade + EQ + Crunch. It's one of the best Pokemon in the tier, and a fantastic wallbreaker/cleaner. It also forms an amazing core with Raticate, as they both wear each other's switch-ins down so easily that it's almost a guarantee that one of them will sweep in the end.

I also dropped Gabite to A because while it's still a great check to some pretty potent threats, I feel like it's not nearly as good as many of the Pokemon found in A+, such as Kingler, Viper, and Arbok. It fits better with Quillidin.