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It is only me or M-Metagross is really limited by choices? I mean, he has agility and no other major buffs and still has trouble against current OU staples like Greninja, ZardXY, Chomp etc? I mean cmom GF :(
skarmory is going to love this meta... as is hippowdon, to a lesser extent. both wall metagross (provided it's lackin grass knot for hippo), skarmory can counter swamp (literally, counter ohkos), hippo cancels rain, which can be huge w/ rain offense getting hyped up as much as it is...shed shell skarm + sceptile sounds devious, and with other mons like swamp stopping mag cold i think mag + pinsir usage is going to die down significantly
While it is bulkier than Clefable, it doesn't have the abilities that make Clefable so good and takes up your Mega Slot on top of that. With more Megas running around it's going to have huge amounts of competition.
Dark Pulse can OHKO and HP Fire 2HKO so it's still a check. Your best bet of winning is using Zen Headbutt and praying it doesn't have Dark Pulse to no sell it, since it's a guaranteed OHKO after LO recoil and SR.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 265-315 (88 - 104.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 198-237 (65.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 216-255 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
EDIT: Forgot Tough Claws :/
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As long as it doesn't have Dark Pulse you should be good.
Mega Metagross' most important buff was the speed boost. As a Mega, Tough Claws gives him power comparable to a normal Metagross fully invested in attack with Life Orb. And fully invested 110 base speed. Now most of his former checks are slower than him, and he can outpace them before they get off an Earthquake or Fire Blast.
I must also express curiosity as to how he's troubled by the likes of Zard XY and Chomp when he is significantly faster than both of them and can deal heavy damage, if not KO each of them with Zen Headbutt, Earthquake, Ice Punch, or Thunder Punch?
If Mega Metagross becomes common in OU, this spells even more bad news from Mega Pinsir than the presence of Mega Mence (who will undoubtedly see more usage).
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 87-102 (28.9 - 33.8%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 176-208 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 34-41 (11.2 - 13.6%) -- possible 8HKO
Mega Gross can switch right in and not give a fuck.
While it is bulkier than Clefable, it doesn't have the abilities that make Clefable so good and takes up your Mega Slot on top of that. With more Megas running around it's going to have huge amounts of competition.
Even then it has competition for its role as a cleric. Sylveon has comparable Special bulk with more offensive presence at the cost of Physical bulk, Clefable still has 2 amazing abilities and offensive pressure, while Chansey is only somewhat less bulky Physically with much better Special bulk and S-Toss to deal some consistent damage. On top of that they all pass comparable or bigger Wishes.
It would've been cool if they gave Mega Audino Serene Grace and moonblast- it would let it be a physical wall that can scare off special attackers with a pseudo-intimidate on its STAB. Still, will be a nice cleric/wall besides, it has an extensive support movepool to throw people off- it could even pull off calm mind with its boosted special attack, but would be outclassed in OU by clefable.
Even then it has competition for its role as a cleric. Sylveon has comparable Special bulk with more offensive presence at the cost of Physical bulk, Clefable still has 2 amazing abilities and offensive pressure, while Chansey is only somewhat less bulky Physically with much better Special bulk and S-Toss to deal some consistent damage. On top of that they all pass comparable or bigger Wishes.
True, but Audino actually has physical bulk. Chansey dies from a Close-Combat, while Audino actually can reliably take on fighting types. Out of the best Clerics right now, you can't argue that Mega Audino has the best mixed bulk.
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 264-312 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mgross ---> Sure it has some awesome stats but no reliable setups (agility/meteor mash). It can switch in easily with it's typing but for 1 agility setup and praying for meteor mash to proc.
And there is the coverage problem, if u burn 1 slot with agility to setup u have 3 slots left, Zenbut/Meteormash/bulletpunch?EQ?brickbreak?Icepunch?somerandomshut?
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 238-282 (71.2 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 374-444 (116.1 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mgross ---> Sure it has some awesome stats but no reliable setups (agility/meteor mash). It can switch in easily with it's typing but for 1 agility setup and praying for meteor mash to proc.
And there is the coverage problem, if u burn 1 slot with agility to setup u have 3 slots left, Zenbut/Meteormash/bulletpunch?EQ?brickbreak?Icepunch?somerandomshut?
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 238-282 (71.2 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 374-444 (116.1 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I like Power-Up Punch better than Agility. It already has base 110 speed, so agility isn't really that necessary. With tough claws Power-up punch does around 55 BP, which really isn't too bad if you're trying to pick off a Pokemon with low HP and get the boost.
I like Power-Up Punch better than Agility. It already has base 110 speed, so agility isn't really that necessary. With tough claws Power-up punch does around 55 BP, which really isn't too bad if you're trying to pick off a Pokemon with low HP and get the boost.
That's interesting, it might be somewhat viable. Agility is definitely better as a late game cleaner imo but PuP might be viable because MMetagross is definitely bulky enough to take a hit meaning you can set up to +2
That's interesting, it might be somewhat viable. Agility is definitely better as a late game cleaner imo but PuP might be viable because MMetagross is definitely bulky enough to take a hit meaning you can set up to +2
maybe, but sadly Mgross don't have any recovery moves to continue to setup (maybe rest?). A chansey switch in can be pretty awesome, u can PuP the hell out of her or the player switchs out and u have +1 for free.
Honestly fake out on mLop is a bit of a waste of a moveslot. It seems like more of a late game cleaner/sweeper with the benefit of supporting another mon, possibly one of the best with its unresisted STAB speed and power. Fake out and encore is a bit of a waste when you consider its role.
Mgross ---> Sure it has some awesome stats but no reliable setups (agility/meteor mash). It can switch in easily with it's typing but for 1 agility setup and praying for meteor mash to proc.
And there is the coverage problem, if u burn 1 slot with agility to setup u have 3 slots left, Zenbut/Meteormash/bulletpunch?EQ?brickbreak?Icepunch?somerandomshut?
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 238-282 (71.2 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 84 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 374-444 (116.1 - 137.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Do you really need Agility? Can't you use max Atk max Speed? I mean, Mega Gross will be on top 6/7 in OU (in terms of speed). Ties with Gengar (50/50 between Shadow Ball and Zen Headbutt) and Lati@s (can't really do much; Mega Gross has Ice Punch/Meteor Mash), is outspeed by Mega Manectric (can only OHKO (Overheat) with 1 layer of Spikes & SR; Mega Gross can OHKO with EQ if doesn't get Intimidated) and Talonflame (OHKOs with Flare Blitz). You can always use something faster and not OU (Mega Aero, Starmie, Tornadus, Alakazam, etc), but you get the point. And Bullet Punch is also not that necessary unless you fear Sash or Sturdy. I really think that max Atk max Speed with Zen Headbutt, EQ, Ice Punch and Meteor Mash is the best option but we will see with time.
Agility is awesome when you consider that he'll be faster than everything (including scarfers), but base 110 is already a very good speed stat and he has the bulk to take a beating. A +1 adamant tough claws metagross with 110 speed would be pretty scary to deal with which is why i'm leaning towards the idea of power up punch.
It all depends on what role metagross is playing really. Agility as mentioned above would be frigging sweet for a late game cleaning set.
Megagross could and probably should run Hone Claws/PuP/Coverage, instead of agility for late game sweeping, considering that he's so bloody fast. With hone claws he could even feasibly run DynamicPunch (not really lol, but still). Hone claws also gets rid of zen/mash iffy accuracy. I think I'm gonna try that set out first.
Bulky agility sets that maybe even have another set up move (prolly Pup) could also be good. Bit disappointed that he doesn't get at least a +15 boost in attack, but I guess he doesn't need it, considering he hits harder than LO Metagross with any move he runs bar EQ.
imma try all attacker max atk spe Mgross like SilverPt suggested.
also, since i can't use aegislash as an example, what do you guys think of Mloppuny Fake-Out/Encore supporter? it can counter some SR/toxic/WoW setuper etc...
Ps: just noticed that New mega data is already at Showdown servers.
From my experience with doubles, Ludicolo is a great rain sweeper, and will be a good partner to Swampert in OU. It should run enough special attack to OHKO Rotom-Wash and 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Giga Drain and Ice Beam respectively. Damp Rock Politoed and Rain Dance Thundurus will also be good partners to set rain for Swampert.
I know this is from 2 pages ago, but I just wanted to point out that this is impossible. You must have forgotten about Thick Fat or something.
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Ludicolo's Modest Life Orb Ice Beam is doing nothing to Mega Venusaur, and M-Venu can heal up with Giga Drain (It heals about 14%)/Synthesis or get a solid 2HKO with uninvested Sludge Bomb. If Mega Venusaur is running an offensive spread, it's a guaranteed OHKO.
imma try all attacker max atk spe Mgross like SilverPt suggested.
also, since i can't use aegislash as an example, what do you guys think of Mloppuny Fake-Out/Encore supporter? it can counter some SR/toxic/WoW setuper etc...
Ps: just noticed that New mega data is already at Showdown servers.
I've given my views on it in the previous page. That set can be ran by regular Lopunny. The only reason to ever run Lopunny is if you're using her mega. Which is fit to be a late game cleaner. Encore and fake out hinder it from doing that.
I know this is from 2 pages ago, but I just wanted to point out that this is impossible. You must have forgotten about Thick Fat or something.
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 94-112 (25.8 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ludicolo: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Ludicolo's Modest Life Orb Ice Beam is doing nothing to Mega Venusaur, and M-Venu can heal up with Giga Drain (It heals about 14%)/Synthesis or get a solid 2HKO with uninvested Sludge Bomb. If Mega Venusaur is running an offensive spread, it's a guaranteed OHKO.
Where do you see this? Neither teambuilder or /dt show them.
I didn't forget about thick fat, just about Venusaur's ridiculous bulk. In that case, Talonflame may make a good partner because it kills Venusaur and other grass types that otherwise laugh at Swampert with Brave Bird and can use Flare Blitz outside of rain. giving you good Fire coverage.
I didn't forget about thick fat, just about Venusaur's ridiculous bulk. In that case, Talonflame may make a good partner because it kills Venusaur and other grass types that otherwise laugh at Swampert with Brave Bird and can use Flare Blitz outside of rain. giving you good Fire coverage.
Honestly fake out on mLop is a bit of a waste of a moveslot. It seems like more of a late game cleaner/sweeper with the benefit of supporting another mon, possibly one of the best with its unresisted STAB speed and power. Fake out and encore is a bit of a waste when you consider its role.
Mgross ---> Sure it has some awesome stats but no reliable setups (agility/meteor mash). It can switch in easily with it's typing but for 1 agility setup and praying for meteor mash to proc.
And there is the coverage problem, if u burn 1 slot with agility to setup u have 3 slots left, Zenbut/Meteormash/bulletpunch?EQ?brickbreak?Icepunch?somerandomshut?
Mgross has a fairly match up with some of most popular Mons in meta, but this easy setup/limited coverage is enough to justify it's usage?
alexwolf EDIT: Last time i am saying this, no talk about Uber Pokemon getting unbanned, next time you will get a warning.
Why would it need Agility when it has 110 Spe after Mega Evolving off the bat? Back then, Agility was used mostly for outrunning common offensive threats in the base 90-120 area, and any other threats faster than that are just pocket change. 110 easily outruns a majority of that, and "limited coverage" isn't a problem because Metagross will likely be using all four of its moveslots for attacks, and almost nothing will be wanting to switch into it because of Tough Claws. It doesn't need "reliable setups" because it's going in there and hitting everything fast and hard already.
Why would it need Agility when it has 110 Spe after Mega Evolving off the bat? Back then, Agility was used mostly for outrunning common offensive threats in the base 90-120 area, and any other threats faster than that are just pocket change. 110 easily outruns a majority of that, and "limited coverage" isn't a problem because Metagross will likely be using all four of its moveslots for attacks, and almost nothing will be wanting to switch into it because of Tough Claws. It doesn't need "reliable setups" because it's going in there and hitting everything fast and hard already.
I surely can agree with that, but can you show us some calculations proving it? Like how he deals with Ferrothorn, Skarmory, M-Venusaur etc? I recall some calcs with some nice and some fails with his mega.
Given its already perfect STAB coverage, Facade might be a decent option for M-Lop.
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 177-208 (50 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 163-193 (44.7 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 237-280 (66 - 77.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 186-219 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Lopunny Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 285-336 (88.2 - 104%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock