You can use Bisharp+Gengar too
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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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The most common set is really the hax set (Body Slam, Iron Head +2). I don't think Jirachi sets that differ only on the last two moves (except maybe scarf) can be directly compared. Jirachi has a really wide movepool and you can run Wish, Protect, Stealth Rock, U-turn, Toxic, Coverage depending on what your team needs. I'd say Wish is more effective right now though, at least it fits the most for my playstyle
Sorry if this looks unorganized but I am on mobile. I have been playing around with a SpD Jirachi set with Iron head/ U-Turn/ Stealth Rocks/ Healing Wish and healing wish is really cool and kind of unexpected on Jirachi rn
I use AV swampert with avalanche, for increase the power to hit Dragon types, and don´t worry about your english, i´m from Brazil, my english is bad too XD
yeah AV swampert isn't doing a lot of work in this teir. Plus it's just fine as a wall and SR setter. Which makes it so good.(in uu not ou) yeah AV allows it to take hits, but the real thing to ask is what will it do back? I don't see it doing a ton of damage for it to be a good tank.
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarrill: thx for free set up n_n, PS: that eq was yummy
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 120-142 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
Scizor: LOW CHANCE TO EVEN 2HKO, LOL, free set up
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 175-207 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keldeo: yum, free CM
That should explain why not to use AV swampert and to use something that can actually do some work. I would stick to the defensive set or the mega for now.
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Azumarrill: thx for free set up n_n, PS: that eq was yummy
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 120-142 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
Scizor: LOW CHANCE TO EVEN 2HKO, LOL, free set up
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 175-207 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Keldeo: yum, free CM
That should explain why not to use AV swampert and to use something that can actually do some work. I would stick to the defensive set or the mega for now.
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You're kind of missing the point. AV Swampert and Leftovers Swampert both suck. I was just saying that AV sucks more than Leftovers. Heck, normal Swampert is just garbage.
i know, am saying if u do end up using it. Use the mega or lefties. But then again lefties is not really good in OU. So the mega us the way to go cause AV and lefties suck in ou.
In before somebody tears into "lefties suck in OU", which they decidedly do not. I was wondering about Camerupt, a mon that is NU by usage but has a viability ranking in several higher tiers, including this one. What does Camerupt (mega, obviously) achieve in OU?
Cameroon achieves basically nothing, sadly, with landorus, gar chomp, rotom-w, and company running around, camerupt is lucky If it gets a kill. It is bulky and can set rocks and has a crazy fire blast, but it isn't worth a mega slot
Specifically, it does wall scizor, uu's rotom heat and heat ran in ou, but defensive typing is too weak against common types. Especially in scald ruled uu.
Specifically, it does wall scizor, uu's rotom heat and heat ran in ou, but defensive typing is too weak against common types. Especially in scald ruled uu.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
On mobile so keeping this short
You are really underselling Mega Camerupt. While it has 2 common weaknesses, you can easily come in on a pokemon that can't hit you hard with its STAB, like Scizor or Clefable, and do heavy damage to the pokemon that switches in, with very few pokemon that reliable switch in. It also stops the momentum of many Volt Switch users, mainly Raikou and Thundurus and get basically get a kill when flying types are gone and you can spam Earth Power. Not sure if its viability is because of its usefulness in TR teams or as a wallbreaker on balanced teams, but it is definitely in the right spot on the rankings
Its viability is based on TR and Balance teams for the reason you stated. Might as well just confirm this while I'm here. It's more so the lack of switch ins though as being slower than Clefable leads you into these situations of getting stalled out. It shines against offense that lacks switch-ins pretty much, which most offense does.
in trick room teams, Camerupt is very good, apart from that it takes 4x waterborne blows, and gyarados, keldeo, Azumarill, Feraligatr, rotom-w and Swampert present in the current metagame, I do not think he can stand out that much but it can take down some Pokemon, if your counters are eliminated.
i can guarantee you TR is more than enough to give him a niche. As my NU team can attest, under TR, mega camerupt is an unstoppable monster
Mega Camerupt is pretty much the definition of a truck. It's high special attack and access to both Sheer Force and high BP moves like Fire Blast to use it with, it becomes a ridiculous wall breaker. Although it doesnt have a great speed stat or defensive typing, TR can make up for the speed.
So seeing how the main playstyle in the current metagame is Bulky Offense, I've always had this idea of having two intimidators and two assault vest users in a team together, but I've never been able to find what works well together like this. Does anyone think there's enough viable Intimidators and AV users to make a team like this actually good? Or am I just going somewhat mad?
Sableye, bird spam, speed ties, poor speed before mega evolving, mega slow bro, not having the best bulk, and needing to set up a SD before breaking teams
a good intimidator core is Scarf Landorus-T and M-Manetric. With a Scarf, Landoge outspeeds the entire unboosted meta, while covering mantetrics ground weakness. Manetric takes care of bulky waters that can trouble Landorus-T, while still being naturally fast and hitting decently hard, but it mainly just clicks volt switch. These two form a nice VoltTurn Core.
As for AV users, The only two that really come to mind is Tornadus-T and Conkeldurr, Tornadus can pivot out, while maintaining healthy with regenerator, and Conkeldurr has drain punch to stay healthy while still hitting decently hard. I also saw an AV Bisharp Set which i don't know if its legit, but someone can confirm it.
I don't really know how a team like this would work, but if you can make it work more power to you.
Going to expand on what Master B8s said. Manectric-Lando Therian is a Intimidate good core. SubDD Gyarados with Intimidate is a pretty good mon as well. If you are using a double Intimidator core, you should also have a Bisharp check like Cobalion, Keldeo or Chesnaught. There are a lot of AV users out there. Off the top of my head Torn-T, Raikou, Slowking, Goodra, Tangrowth and Conk are all decent or better AV users.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Celticpride already named pretty much every good AV user outside of Azumarill and Bisharp. Scizor and Meloetta can also be mentioned as AV users as they have a cool niche countering some specific pokemon, but they are not included in the viability rankings.
iamQmai
Having 2 intimidate users and 2 assault vest users can be a cool idea for building a team but it is not how I build bulky offensive teams. Bulky Offensive teams like defensive support and this is often like an Intimidate or AV user. However, many bulky offensive teams I build have a core containing bulky pokemon that have good offensive pressure. An example is a core I use pretty often which is Scizor + Mega Gardevoir. Scizor gives your team a switchin into weaker physical attacks while Mega Gardevoir can switch into special attacks without too many problems. Another example is Mega Altaria which has enormous amount of offensive pressure with either a DD set or a special/mixed set, but also gives very good defensive support with its good typing. Having 2 pokemon fitting this criterium in a bulky offensive team is very useful. Some pokemon that I like to use on bulky offensive teams are Azumarill, Tornadus-T, Latias, Mega Altaria, Scizor and Heatran for the reasons I stated (good bulk, offensive pressure, support)
iamQmai
Having 2 intimidate users and 2 assault vest users can be a cool idea for building a team but it is not how I build bulky offensive teams. Bulky Offensive teams like defensive support and this is often like an Intimidate or AV user. However, many bulky offensive teams I build have a core containing bulky pokemon that have good offensive pressure. An example is a core I use pretty often which is Scizor + Mega Gardevoir. Scizor gives your team a switchin into weaker physical attacks while Mega Gardevoir can switch into special attacks without too many problems. Another example is Mega Altaria which has enormous amount of offensive pressure with either a DD set or a special/mixed set, but also gives very good defensive support with its good typing. Having 2 pokemon fitting this criterium in a bulky offensive team is very useful. Some pokemon that I like to use on bulky offensive teams are Azumarill, Tornadus-T, Latias, Mega Altaria, Scizor and Heatran for the reasons I stated (good bulk, offensive pressure, support)
i have actually ran a team with double AV users, people have said all the main ones being conk, raikou, bisharp, azumarill, torn-t, goodra, but you all forgot about AV drill :p. This thing was semi-popular in early xy due to having an offensive presence and being extremely specially defensive, while being able to rapid spin. I ran drill with AV azumarill, who is on and off in this meta. While drill isn't the best special wall, due to being weak to water and fighting (focus miss) and the rise of lando-I/ Kyuerum, he still has a niche. He eats anything the Latis throw at him, other than eq and can live some prettey powerful attacks. I paired the two up with Mega Sceptile forming a SFD core, and worked relativity well. AV drill has a niche, but its a very small niche and its probably better to use a more standard drill set, still thought i would mention it though.
(Excadrill) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 144 HP / 76 Atk / 252 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide
evs allow you to outspeed the common rotom and 2hko the most defensive of clefables, while also puttin a dent in rotom.
Calcs
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AV Bisharp exists but is kinda bad/slow/not very bulky. Personally, I think Raikou, Tornadus, Conk or Amoongus are better AV abusers
Well we already have Lando-T, non Mega Gyara and Mega Manectric for intimidators, and they're all excellent at offense. As for AV users though, i don't have any experience with them aside from Conkeldurr and Tyranitar. I didn't really have success with AV Ttar but that's mostly due to me playing bad. there are still many
AV users in OU. I heard people using AV bisharp (not sure if it's better than life orb though), AV Exca without sand, AV metagross and Goodra, but I havn't used any of those.
EDIT: FORGOT TORN-T AND RAIKOU LOL
AV Bisharp can be used but I would rather just invest in SpD EVs because the only things it makes your match-up better against are the Lati@s, whom you want to pursuit Trap while avoiding the Hidden Power vs Sucker Punch vs Pursuit mindgame. Also, if you're not running a damage-boosting item, Bisharp really lacks the power to muscle past certain teams.
AV Metagross is used because it has a niche in trapping the Lati@s but otherwise, Mega Metagross is better in every way imaginable. AV Goodra is just a Special tank that can hit hard.
AV Tyranitar and Excadrill are just plain awful.
Raikou, Azumarill, Tornadus-T and Conkeldurr runs AV well.
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