Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I've been pairing up Mega Diancie with Dugtrio and Magnezone and I have to say that it works pretty well. You get the idea, trapping Steel-types like Heatran/Scizor/Ferrothorn to give Diancie an easy time sweeping. I've been using Klefki more as well; it's a great check to the new Mega's like Latias, Lopunny and Salamence in particular. Also baits in Ferrothorn/Heatran which makes trapping it really easy. And Spikes are just good as usual, and Klefki gets them up really easily. If anything they force your opponent to Defog, which gives you a free setup opportunity.

I've also noticed that SubDD Mega Mence is everywhere and for good reason; nothing appreciates Aerilate Return and even if you have a Magnezone they just outstall you with Roost or knock you out with EQ depending on their set. After two DD's it's basically GG. Mega Slowbro is manageable for now just because I have Magnezone; once people start to run Duggy however I think it might become a problem.

 

[MANNAT]

I've been using a FWG core of Mega-Sceptile, Greninja, and Heatran. All 3 are fast attackers that can decimate the opposing team and make way for psychical sweepers like Scizor and Cokeldurr to come in and Destroy Pokemon. Mega-Sceptile makes rotom-wash cry himself to sleep at night, and he does a ton of damage to bulky steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor with HP fire. Greninja's new toys in low kick and gunk shot allow him to muscle past Pokemon that previously countered all of his good sets as well as destroy the rest of the meta with his STAB coverage. Lastly, fast Taunttran makes an excellent lead that can take down breloom and various leads that wish to use status moves right off the bat as well as breaking stall mid game. All-in-all i believe that these three Pokemon can form a thundurus (no pun intended) offensive core that can decimate unprepared teams.

 

[Rosen]

I've been using a FWG core of Mega-Sceptile, Greninja, and Heatran. All 3 are fast attackers that can decimate the opposing team and make way for psychical sweepers like Scizor and Cokeldurr to come in and Destroy Pokemon. Mega-Sceptile makes rotom-wash cry himself to sleep at night, and he does a ton of damage to bulky steels like Ferrothorn and Scizor with HP fire. Greninja's new toys in low kick and gunk shot allow him to muscle past Pokemon that previously countered all of his good sets as well as destroy the rest of the meta with his STAB coverage. Lastly, fast Taunttran makes an excellent lead that can take down breloom and various leads that wish to use status moves right off the bat as well as breaking stall mid game. All-in-all i believe that these three Pokemon can form a thundurus (no pun intended) offensive core that can decimate unprepared teams.

yeah sounds pretty cool, if only someone had thought this core with those exact sets sooner, which i'm sure Bluwing will agree

it is a pretty good offensive core, although i personally prefer subtile/assvest azu/sd talon, otherwise megagross + scarf keldeo cores take a massive shit on it.

 

[Josh Morales]

The point of D rank is to put relatively shit 'mon that still have a very specific niche. This could very well be Hydreigon's said niche.
In addition, HydraGross core could be so good as to push Hydra up a rank or two. Do realize XY OU is different from what ORAS OU is going to be - a good example being how hyped up the current D rank Dugtrio is.

That's a good point. Doublade did go all the way up to B- after Aegislash was banned. The rankings are relative to the meta after all.

 

[Alfalfa]

As alexwolf mentioned, Alomomola is a very nice mon to deal with some of the new threats in ORAS. I like the specially defensive set in particular:

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat/Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald/Toxic

Alomomola has the ability to both take on common threats with its massive bulk while also providing Wish support to the team, which I find invaluable in the current state of the metagame given the huge emphasis on overloading. Here are some calcs:

Greninja: 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 283-335 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Alo is 2hkod by grass knot, if ninja is running grass knot, then its movepool is lacking something else. Alo can then pivot out or ninja to an appropriate teammate, restoring its health in the process and leaving ninja with life orb damage. Any other move that ninja may carry can only 3hko at best. (which alo can easily wish off).

Lopunny: 252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 104 HP / 248 Def Alomomola: 202-238 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lopunny can only 3hko, and return does even less (else lopunny has to deal with protect shenanigans). Alo can, once again, wish off the damage or provide a wish to an appropriate team member.

Metagross: 0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 142-168 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alo is not threatened in the slightest, and can threaten a burn or pass off a wish.

Keldeo: 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 104 HP / 248 Def Alomomola: 190-225 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also a nice Specs keldeo counter.

Landorus: 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 298-351 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It cannot take lando on comfortably, but one free turn allows for a wish to either a teammate or to alo itself. Mirror coat shenanigans can ensue.

Altaria: 252+ SpA Pixilate Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 163-192 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alo can simply wish off the damage.



Some of the others are fairly obvious (Swampert, Glalie, etc.). Basically, Alo has the capability to deal with a ton of new threats. However, using alo as a standalone wall in this meta is a very bad idea due to its pitiful offensive presence. Sub mons such as Salamence and Latias (and anything else really) can set up on Alo all day. In fact, most things that set up in any capacity can ruin alo's day. As such, it needs to be used as nothing more than a pivot. While it can counter a good number of non-setup mons, it is vital to have a second answer to just about everything. While this may seem like alo causes too much redundancy, in reality, a lot of new threats don't even have a solid answer to begin with. Alo is a blanket check to the metagame that can also keep the team healthy enough to continue dealing with typical offensive mons.

Alomomola is only safe from Keldeo if Calm Mind variants (especially SubCM) do not become more common, and Spikes are becoming more common as well. Landorus 2HKOs Alomomola with Earth Power, who cannot 2HKO back with Scald, and Altaria can use Substitute + Dragon Dance to set up all over it. It can reliably beat Lopunny, Greninja, and Metagross, but not Keldeo, Landorus, and Altaria.

 

[RufflesPro]

I've been pairing up Mega Diancie with Dugtrio and Magnezone and I have to say that it works pretty well. You get the idea, trapping Steel-types like Heatran/Scizor/Ferrothorn to give Diancie an easy time sweeping. I've been using Klefki more as well; it's a great check to the new Mega's like Latias, Lopunny and Salamence in particular. Also baits in Ferrothorn/Heatran which makes trapping it really easy. And Spikes are just good as usual, and Klefki gets them up really easily. If anything they force your opponent to Defog, which gives you a free setup opportunity.

I've also noticed that SubDD Mega Mence is everywhere and for good reason; nothing appreciates Aerilate Return and even if you have a Magnezone they just outstall you with Roost or knock you out with EQ depending on their set. After two DD's it's basically GG. Mega Slowbro is manageable for now just because I have Magnezone; once people start to run Duggy however I think it might become a problem.

Tbh if you give anything decent both Dugtrio and Magnezone support it will do very good. IMO Magnezone is good enough support for Mega Diancie since Mega Diancie gets earth power. But from experience, Mega Diancie is worn down very easily and missed out on so many KOs even at +1, it just need a little bit of extra power. For example, both Scarf Lando-t and Scar Mangnezone are everywhere, and can stop it easily, even with zone support, almost every scizor is running U-turn. It only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO Heatran at +0 (220+ Calm) and 6.3% chance to ohko Landorus-t AT +1 (252 HP / 0 SpD) if it's not SpD or Scarf.

While Magnezone is a good support for Mega Diancie, their synergy is absolutely horrible, you need at least 2 other team members to fix this core's synergy. Right away you have a HUGE weakness to ground, a weakness to fighting, and your fire/steel weakness is barely checked and is very shaky, like Flash cannon heatran can beat this core.

And while I do agree on Klefki being a decent spiker, it is outclassed by both Chesnaught and Ferrothorn, the latter also has t-wave support, and both have much more defenses and better typing (in the ou meta) and movepool. The biggest downside about Klefki is that it's literally asking for Excdrill to come on it, and if it's adamant life orb then something is most likely dying too. Spikes - Rapid Spin, T-wave? Immunity, Play Rough? Doesn't do shit, Foul Play? You should be running toxic to catch lando-t on the switch. The only thing about Klefki that I like is that its t-wave support is good, but really predictable now, I think it's a better dual screen user than spikes in the current meta.

 

[OverlordDerp]

I've been trying different iterations of the M-Sableye + Porygon2 core. What works best for me currently is CM M-Sableye and T-wave Physcially Defensive P2. It still loses hard to M-Lopunny and M-Gardevoir, but I've been trying to remedy that with appropriate checks. Thunder Wave is incredibly helpful in crippling either of those threats, but it definitely can't stay in on any of them. Only thing I can say about it is that it's a terrifying core. Tanks damn near everything and works well in both balance and stall.

 

[DaKakz]

And while I do agree on Klefki being a decent spiker, it is outclassed by both Chesnaught and Ferrothorn, the latter also has t-wave support, and both have much more defenses and better typing (in the ou meta) and movepool. The biggest downside about Klefki is that it's literally asking for Excdrill to come on it, and if it's adamant life orb then something is most likely dying too. Spikes - Rapid Spin, T-wave? Immunity, Play Rough? Doesn't do shit, Foul Play? You should be running toxic to catch lando-t on the switch. The only thing about Klefki that I like is that its t-wave support is good, but really predictable now, I think it's a better dual screen user than spikes in the current meta.

Klefki now gets Magic Coat, just in case you forgot.

On another note, I would like to see Foul Play added to Gourgeist's new moves on the OP. :)

 

[Srn]

Almost every top tier threat has moves to beat its counters, this is nothing new. There are, however, generally inferior moves now that Gunk Shot is out, and Grass and Psychic coverage are in this category, especially Extrasensory, which only has use for hitting SpD Mega Venusaur (rare) and Tentacruel (even rarer). Keldeo is 2HKOed by Gunk Shot, so one of the reasons to use Extrasensory in XY is no more. Same goes for Grass Knot / HP Grass to an extend, as Gunk Shot takes care of many Water-types, such as Keldeo and Azumarill, and provides better coverage in general.

Nah rotom-w is so fucking prevalent in this rn hp grass has a very good use.

I really don't see the point in running Low Kick Gren. It's a lure like just about anything else, but it's really a less efficient set by miles compared to the standard Hydro/Ice Beam/Pulse/Gunk set. I guess that's a textbook definition of a lure, but I'm just not seeing why you would want to nerf the best Pokemon in the tier in order to break 2 mons, especially when one of them is trapped by Magnezone, and both can be trapped by Goth. There are multitudes of stallbreakers right now, Gren does not have to be (and will not be) your team's primary stallbreaker for most well-built teams. It's ok to run a set with 2 counters when it pretty much beats everything else, especially when those two counters are pretty passive, and one of which wears down easily.

Speaking of trappers, they damned good in this meta. Goth is only a little better than average, but Magnezone is better than it used to be by leaps and bounds. It synergizes well with most viable megas right now (Metagross, Mence, Gyarados, Diancie) as well as with some of the best Pokemon in the tier (Lando-T, Gren). There's a lot of shit in this meta with a limited pool of counters, and a lot of those counters are Steel-Type. Skarmory and Ferro are holding teams together against MGross and MGyara, while Empoleon is holding teams together against Gren for easy examples. Mega/Lando-T/Gren/Zone/2 Filler is a pretty strong team in this meta, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of people running teams like this soon.

AV kube, which counters greninja otherwise, is also a very relevant target for low kick.

As alexwolf mentioned, Alomomola is a very nice mon to deal with some of the new threats in ORAS. I like the specially defensive set in particular:

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mirror Coat/Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald/Toxic

Alomomola has the ability to both take on common threats with its massive bulk while also providing Wish support to the team, which I find invaluable in the current state of the metagame given the huge emphasis on overloading. Here are some calcs:

Greninja: 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 283-335 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Alo is 2hkod by grass knot, if ninja is running grass knot, then its movepool is lacking something else. Alo can then pivot out or ninja to an appropriate teammate, restoring its health in the process and leaving ninja with life orb damage. Any other move that ninja may carry can only 3hko at best. (which alo can easily wish off).

Lopunny: 252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 104 HP / 248 Def Alomomola: 202-238 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lopunny can only 3hko, and return does even less (else lopunny has to deal with protect shenanigans). Alo can, once again, wish off the damage or provide a wish to an appropriate team member.

Metagross: 0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 142-168 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alo is not threatened in the slightest, and can threaten a burn or pass off a wish.

Keldeo: 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 104 HP / 248 Def Alomomola: 190-225 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also a nice Specs keldeo counter.

Landorus: 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 298-351 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It cannot take lando on comfortably, but one free turn allows for a wish to either a teammate or to alo itself. Mirror coat shenanigans can ensue.

Altaria: 252+ SpA Pixilate Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156+ SpD Alomomola: 163-192 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Alo can simply wish off the damage.



Some of the others are fairly obvious (Swampert, Glalie, etc.). Basically, Alo has the capability to deal with a ton of new threats. However, using alo as a standalone wall in this meta is a very bad idea due to its pitiful offensive presence. Sub mons such as Salamence and Latias (and anything else really) can set up on Alo all day. In fact, most things that set up in any capacity can ruin alo's day. As such, it needs to be used as nothing more than a pivot. While it can counter a good number of non-setup mons, it is vital to have a second answer to just about everything. While this may seem like alo causes too much redundancy, in reality, a lot of new threats don't even have a solid answer to begin with. Alo is a blanket check to the metagame that can also keep the team healthy enough to continue dealing with typical offensive mons.

Altaria can run the frustration/roost/dd/heal bell to break past alomo and keldeo can run subcm, specs keldeo is not as good as it was in xy and there are a lot more reasons to go scarf so specs won't see much use. Landorus can also CM on a predicted protect, which you can't afford to mispredict.

 

[alexwolf]

Nah rotom-w is so fucking prevalent in this rn hp grass has a very good use.

Dark Pulse already 2HKOes Rotom-W after SR.

Here are two Pokemon that weren't very good in XY OU and got much more viable in ORAS:

Togekiss: Physically defensive Togekiss with Nasty Plot, Air Slash, Heal Bell, and Roost shuts down a lot of the new MEvos, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sceptile, and Mega Lopunny. Furthermore, this set is capable of sweeping through many defensive cores and stall teams i have seen on the ladder, and with Mega Sableye, hazard control is easier than ever. All in all, physically defensive Togekiss serves as a good counter to many popular threats and is capable of dismantling entire defensive cores on its own. If you go with Thunder Wave over Nasty Plot or Heal Bell, you can also beat Mega Gallade most of the time, which does only 62.1 - 73.4% with +2 Zen Headbutt, allowing Togekiss to paralyze and flinchax Gallade to death. Togekiss can forgo both Heal Bell and Nasty Plot for Thunder Wave and Dazzling Gleam, to fare better against offensive teams, as it can still check and cripple most of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Altaria, and Mega Salamence without Substitute.

Weavile: With the ability to revenge kill Mega Salamence and Mega Sceptile, two of the best offensive MEvos, as well as Greninja, one of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame, it's no wonder how Weavile got better in ORAS. In addition, Mega Scizor and Clefable, two of its best counters, are rarer in the ORAS metagame, the first due to everyone using the new MEvos and the second because of competition with Fairy-types such as Mega Altaria and Mega Diancie, as well as receiving a hard counter in Mega Metagross. Finally, offensive teams are really common at the top of the ladder, and Weavile fares excellent against them, while again, hazard control is easier than ever.

I am looking forward for thoughts on some other rare Pokemon that got improved with the transition to ORAS, as this subject is one of the best ways to observe the evolution of the metagame and makes for very interesting discussions. Another underused Pokemon that i have been using lately to great success is specially defensive Tentacruel, but this set was underrated as hell in XY too, so it doesn't count.

 

[WebBowser]

One change I'm surprisingly hyped up for is drain punch slurpuff. Back in XY, the biggest issue with using BD slurpuff anywhere was that it's coverage moves were garbage, but with drain punch it now has fairy normal fighting for neutral coverage on everything but ghost-steel, ghost fire, and ghost poison (so basically walled by doublade and chandelure). I could see her working very well when paired with a pursuit trapper like CB ttar.

Some important new calcs...

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 492-580 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Big change, no longer walled by heatran. That's really really important from a viability standpoint.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

miles better then before, drain punch will keep slurpuff healthy if skarm tries to stall with rocky helm and roost. Obviously whirlwind skarm shuts down this set as it does every other BD sweeper.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 308-364 (87.5 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Not quite an ohko, but it's pretty darn close. Ferrothorn isn't exactly hard to wear down.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 351-414 (130.9 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's a resisted hit folks.

Drain punch recovery also makes slurpuff better at taking on revenge killers. For example...

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 195-229 (61.3 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whereas before sharp beak tflame only needs a tiny bit of prior damage to safely stop slurpuff, drain punch means that it has a decent chance of having more then 75% hp.

Not even CB tflame is guaranteed an ohko (still a pretty good check though, because BD)

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 267-315 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So yeah, I think drain punch might actually lend slurpuff a reason to be used over azu. A BD sweeper with both unburden and drain punch is actually pretty scary. It's certainly worth considering if you want a physical sweeper that isn't a mega. It still dies to bullet punch and isn't exactly a god at taking other priority hits like mega mence, but it looks decent.

 

[JebusChrist]

Here are two Pokemon that weren't very good in XY OU and got much more viable in ORAS:

Togekiss: Physically defensive Togekiss with Nasty Plot, Air Slash, Heal Bell, and Roost shuts down a lot of the new MEvos, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sceptile, and Mega Lopunny. Furthermore, this set is capable of sweeping through many defensive cores and stall teams i have seen on the ladder, and with Mega Sableye, hazard control is easier than ever. All in all, physically defensive Togekiss serves as a good counter to many popular threats and is capable of dismantling entire defensive cores on its own. If you go with Thunder Wave over Nasty Plot or Heal Bell, you can also beat Mega Gallade most of the time, which does only 62.1 - 73.4% with +2 Zen Headbutt, allowing Togekiss to paralyze and flinchax Gallade to death. Togekiss can forgo both Heal Bell and Nasty Plot for Thunder Wave and Dazzling Gleam, to fare better against offensive teams, as it can still check and cripple most of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Altaria, and Mega Salamence without Substitute.

Can't flinch Gallade because of Inner Focus :')

 

[alexwolf]

Can't flinch Gallade because of Inner Focus :')

True, forgot about that. Still paralyzing or doing a decent chunk to it with Air Slash / Dazzling Gleam makes Togekiss a very decent check to Mega Gallade.

 

[Clone]

Here are two Pokemon that weren't very good in XY OU and got much more viable in ORAS:

Togekiss: Physically defensive Togekiss with Nasty Plot, Air Slash, Heal Bell, and Roost shuts down a lot of the new MEvos, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sceptile, and Mega Lopunny. Furthermore, this set is capable of sweeping through many defensive cores and stall teams i have seen on the ladder, and with Mega Sableye, hazard control is easier than ever. All in all, physically defensive Togekiss serves as a good counter to many popular threats and is capable of dismantling entire defensive cores on its own. If you go with Thunder Wave over Nasty Plot or Heal Bell, you can also beat Mega Gallade most of the time, which does only 62.1 - 73.4% with +2 Zen Headbutt, allowing Togekiss to paralyze and flinchax Gallade to death. Togekiss can forgo both Heal Bell and Nasty Plot for Thunder Wave and Dazzling Gleam, to fare better against offensive teams, as it can still check and cripple most of the aforementioned Pokemon, as well as Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo, Mega Altaria, and Mega Salamence without Substitute.

Weavile: With the ability to revenge kill Mega Salamence and Mega Sceptile, two of the best offensive MEvos, as well as Greninja, one of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame, it's no wonder how Weavile got better in ORAS. In addition, Mega Scizor and Clefable, two of its best counters, are rarer in the ORAS metagame, the first due to everyone using the new MEvos and the second because of competition with Fairy-types such as Mega Altaria and Mega Diancie, as well as receiving a hard counter in Mega Metagross. Finally, offensive teams are really common at the top of the ladder, and Weavile fares excellent against them, while again, hazard control is easier than ever.

I am looking forward for thoughts on some other rare Pokemon that got improved with the transition to ORAS, as this subject is one of the best ways to observe the evolution of the metagame and makes for very interesting discussions. Another underused Pokemon that i have been using lately to great success is specially defensive Tentacruel, but this set was underrated as hell in XY too, so it doesn't count.

Gallade has Inner Focus, making him immune to Flinch hax.

Tho Gallade can't win vs Togekiss if he's not already boosted, I just wanted to point that out.

As for rare Pokémon tho, I've seen quite a few Klefki around simply because this key ring has gotten really good. Prankster T Wave alongside a great typing and defenses allow Klefki to take on everything he could before as well as some of the new megas like Mence (which is huge btw), Altaria, and to an extent Metagross (EQ can't OHKO. And now he's paralyzed which drastically reduces his capabilities.

 

[Alfalfa]

One change I'm surprisingly hyped up for is drain punch slurpuff. Back in XY, the biggest issue with using BD slurpuff anywhere was that it's coverage moves were garbage, but with drain punch it now has fairy normal fighting for neutral coverage on everything but ghost-steel, ghost fire, and ghost poison (so basically walled by doublade and chandelure). I could see her working very well when paired with a pursuit trapper like CB ttar.

Some important new calcs...

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 492-580 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Big change, no longer walled by heatran. That's really really important from a viability standpoint.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 147-174 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

miles better then before, drain punch will keep slurpuff healthy if skarm tries to stall with rocky helm and roost. Obviously whirlwind skarm shuts down this set as it does every other BD sweeper.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 308-364 (87.5 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Not quite an ohko, but it's pretty darn close. Ferrothorn isn't exactly hard to wear down.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 28 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 351-414 (130.9 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's a resisted hit folks.

Drain punch recovery also makes slurpuff better at taking on revenge killers. For example...

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 195-229 (61.3 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whereas before sharp beak tflame only needs a tiny bit of prior damage to safely stop slurpuff, drain punch means that it has a decent chance of having more then 75% hp.

Not even CB tflame is guaranteed an ohko (still a pretty good check though, because BD)

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 267-315 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So yeah, I think drain punch might actually lend slurpuff a reason to be used over azu. A BD sweeper with both unburden and drain punch is actually pretty scary. It's certainly worth considering if you want a physical sweeper that isn't a mega. It still dies to bullet punch and isn't exactly a god at taking other priority hits like mega mence, but it looks decent.

Azumarill hits considerably harder than Slurpuff, since it has Huge Power boosting its attack from base 50 attack to base 149 attack. For example,

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 481-567 (122 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 294-347 (81.8 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Return vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 451-531 (125.6 - 147.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(I am not saying that Azumarill should use Return, I am trying to make my point that Azumarill is much stronger)

That is a pretty hefty amount of difference in damage. Also, that calc on Gengar is cherry picked, because Gengar has the defenses of a wet paper bag, and is going to be OHKOd to begin with.

That calc on Skarmory is irrelevant because it will just KO you back with Counter. At least Azumarill can OHKO if Sturdy is not intact. And Leftovers Skarmory is dead; Shed Shell is the only item using using.

Sure, the extra speed is nice, but Azumarill is still substantially better due to the increase in power. Further, a +6 Aqua Jet can be easily used to clean offensive teams once they are worn down, and Slurpuff really telegraphs the fact that you are using it to clean - with Azumarill, everybody expects the Assault Vest, so bringing it out to Belly Drum once the time is right is more surprising than if Slurpuff Belly Drummed.

Overall, Slurpuff is still not worth using in OU, even with access to Drain Punch.

 

[Zester]

Due to the new Elemental Punches and viability with Knock off, Diggersby can no longer be horrible checked by Gengar. It now has the power with much of the thing it can cover, Knock off banded Diggersby is still as powerful as Knock off on Azumarill, and can still carry U-turn if you need a quick escape. Quick attack stills remains the most viable priority, but with these new Elemental Punches, it could add a new addition to Diggersby that could eventually put him in OU.

 

[alexwolf]

Due to the new Elemental Punches and viability with Knock off, Diggersby can no longer be horrible checked by Gengar. It now has the power with much of the thing it can cover, Knock off banded Diggersby is still as powerful as Knock off on Azumarill, and can still carry U-turn if you need a quick escape. Quick attack stills remains the most viable priority, but with these new Elemental Punches, it could add a new addition to Diggersby that could eventually put him in OU.

Wild Charge OHKOes Gengar, so Diggersby already had the tools to deal with both Skarmory and Gengar. Knock Off is an ok move for the Scarf set, as it is a very spammable move, but not for SD sets. Fire Punch, on the other hand, seems very useful to deal with all of Mega Scizor, Skarmory, and Gengar, all without the recoil of Wild Charge, making it probably a superior option for SD sets.

 

[Karxrida]

Gengar is still a Diggersby check as Focus Blast always OHKOs or it can threaten to burn Diggersby.

Wild Charge OHKOes Gengar, so Diggersby already had the tools to deal with both Skarmory and Gengar. Knock Off is an ok move for the Scarf set, as it is a very spammable move, but not for SD sets. Fire Punch, on the other hand, seems very useful to deal with all of Mega Scizor, Skarmory, and Gengar, all without the recoil of Wild Charge, making it probably a superior option for SD sets.

Fire Punch and Wild Charge cannot OHKO Gengar unless Diggersby has some sort of boost, and LO Fire Punch only has a 43% chance to OHKO after SR.

252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 160-189 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 192-226 (73.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 250-294 (95.7 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Knock Off is the only reason Gengar can't counter Diggersby now.

 

[alexwolf]

Gengar is still a Diggersby check as Focus Blast always OHKOs or it can threaten to burn Diggersby.


Fire Punch and Wild Charge cannot OHKO Gengar unless Diggersby has some sort of boost, and LO Fire Punch only has a 43% chance to OHKO after SR.

252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 160-189 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 192-226 (73.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 250-294 (95.7 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Knock Off is the only reason Gengar can't counter Diggersby now.

Yeah, i was assuming LO and SR up, in which case Wild Charge OHKOes Gengar.

 

[Consignia]

If you run Fire Punch on SD Digger what are you dropping, Quick Attack? It feels like SD Diggersby really wants both stabs + priority, I can't imagine wanting to drop any of those moves for coverage.

 

[Olijolly]

Recently, I've been having more success with the offensive DD m.mence than with the BnB subDD set. I'm assuming it is mostly because everyone laddering in ORAS meta is carrying numerous means of checking subDD. M.mence reminds me of garchomp of DPP era, and I'm not liking it. Anyways, I feel like more people may try to run faster mence sets more just for other mega mences also.

I don't know if I see less subDD but I am seeing more and more offensive DD variants (lol@hydro pump...though rhyperior but still lol). I consider it the SD variant for mega luke while subDD = special mega luke. \

 

[Goodra]

I've seen a few defensive Krookodiles on the ladder lately. I'm not sure what changes could of caused them being used besides maybe for Mega Sableye without Will O Wisp and Mega Metagross. One team had a Krookodile + Gyarados core that was giving me some trouble though. Besides that Greninja has been a real game changer for me wrecking threats like Azumarill and Clefable that gave me trouble before. Seriously this frog has gone through four or more mons before he kicked the bucket at which point I just brought out Mega Lopunny and cleaned up the rest.

 

[Panda Monium]

Well, Pangoro might actually fit nicely into this current meta. Due to a secondary Dark-typing and Parting Shot, as well as Gunk Shot, it has a decent niche over Conkeldurr, and due to Parting Shot, literally nothing (aside from Mega Sableye) really wants to switch into Knock Off, Drain Punch, Gunk Shot, or Parting Shot. It can also run about 32 Speed EVs to creep Specs Sylveon, and by extent, every fairy bar Togekiss and Florges, and OHKO even the most physically defensive Sylveon on the switch-in with Knock Off + Gunk Shot. Plus, if your team is walled by Landorus-T, (Mega) Scizor, Gliscor, etc., you can run Fire or Ice Punch for them, although there is not much on Pangoro's moveset that is replaceable with coverage.
Some good teammates for Pangoro are clerics, as it dislikes burn, slow Volt-Turners, and Pokemon that appreciate his decent wallbreaking and pivoting (with Parting Shot) abilities.
And if you want to get a bit more gimmicky, a monoattacking ResTalk + Bulk Up + Circle Throw with Scrappy could work, as with max Special Defense, Pangoro can really tank some decent special hits (no Fairy moves ofc). Choice Scarf can also work, as Pangoro with a Scarf gets the surprise KO on non-Mega or Scarved Lati@s, Gengar, and other fast Pokemon that usually don't care about Pangoro, plus fast Parting Shot is awesome. Pangoro, with Dark's useful resistances, as well as more Special bulk than Conkeldurr, can pull off an Assault Vest set to switch in to special attackers with near impunity.
However, Pangoro appreciates team support to take care of Fighting-types and most Megas, as Fighting STAB generally OHKOs him and he cannot harm most Megas, as they take minimum damage from Knock Off.
Lastly, for people saying Conkeldurr outclasses Pangoro, here's a list of pros and cons of Pangoro over Conkeldurr.

PROS
- Better Speed tier
- Dark Type grants useful resists + STAB Knock Off
- Gunk Shot is a powerful coverage option
- Slightly better Special bulk
- Parting Shot
CONS
- Less Attack
- Worse physical bulk
- Dark typing grants undesirable weaknesses
- Can't deal with burn by running Guts

So, all in all, this panda is not to be trifled with, and no, it's only somewhat outclassed by Conkeldurr. It does have niches. And lastly, don't say no to panda.

 

[alexwolf]

If you run Fire Punch on SD Digger what are you dropping, Quick Attack? It feels like SD Diggersby really wants both stabs + priority, I can't imagine wanting to drop any of those moves for coverage.

Either Quick Attack, so you can destroy stall, or Swords Dance, so you can have utility against both offense and stall. Though, the LO set should remain the same as it was in XY, as it's still by far Diggersby's most effective set and can threaten every single playstyle.

 

[lightningsnowstorm]

The point of D rank is to put relatively shit 'mon that still have a very specific niche. This could very well be Hydreigon's said niche.
In addition, HydraGross core could be so good as to push Hydra up a rank or two. Do realize XY OU is different from what ORAS OU is going to be - a good example being how hyped up the current D rank Dugtrio is.

How is hydreigon a "shit mon" in any way, shape or form? It has great synergy with megagross as stated. It's special attack is still pretty good and it learns flash cannon to hit fairies.