Not sure where to put this, but this is from the official site:
Blaziken at the moment does not learn Ice Punch, so those move tutors from the demo might not be final.
posting here from the other thread
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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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posting here from the other thread
I think the implication is that, if Blaziken is getting a move it doesn't have (and doesn't seem to get from ORAS tutors) then there may be some other movepool changes as well for other pokemon.
http://www.pokemonrubysapphire.com/en-us/pokemon/starter-pokemon/ultimate-moves
Go to pictures 5-8 where it shows the Thunder Punch picture/description.
There is no description about thunder punch on pictures 5-8 it is solely about ice punch. Also
IF you didnt find ice punch in blazikens level up moveset, then why does this official picture from the pokemon company show us blaziken using ice punch? That's what we are trying to figure out here, not whether or not blaziken can use this competively. This evidence may show us that those data dumps may not have been 100% accurate and that other pokemon may get some moves that they weren't suppost to get.
You're completely missing what I said. Blaziken's level-up movepool was intentionally cut from the demo. As in, whether Ice Punch was given to Blaziken by the point it was put in the demo, we would have absolutely no way of knowing because Blaziken's level-up movepool is not programmed into the demo.
Ok fair enough; however, whether or not blaziken's level movepool was put in the demo doesn't matter as blaziken didn't learn ice punch thorugh level up, and i could gurantee you that will not change and we can now confirmthat blaziken does indeed get ice punch know meaning that this could mean pokemon are learning moves that they couldn't get from previous gens; it's just like shiftry getting leaf blade or lopunny getting high jump kick. Meaning those data dumps might not have been entirely correct. Again im don't entirely know how those data dumps work, but this means that game freak may have put in more moves for pokemon. Sooooo endeavor greninja? gunk shot Beedril?
Indeed as interesting as this topic is, we should focus on what we have now.
Talking about KyuB. I had some small success using him as an AV user. But im feeling it is mostly a gimmick at this point.
What success did you have with it against? Does it counter any of the new Megas or such?
One AV user i enjoy using is scizor. Sure it limited in its options, but the bulk it get's from the assualt vest makes it very durable and allows it to switch into to special attackers very often. Plus, unlike the choice band set, it's not locking u into one move, giving scizor more mobility. I can understand why it's not a main set, but it's a good option if you already have a mega slot on your team. Plus, it pairs very well with physically defensive rotom-W
I tried to have a pokemon not named empoleon that could check greninja, and threathen back some volturners(Feign a scarf)while still being sligthly reliable against Mslowbro and Msableye, and could scareoff rypherior. It did work, but against some teams he was a complete teamslot waste.
0 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 359-424 (91.8 - 108.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Still faces the same problem Empoleon does of getting fucked by Low Kick. Damn, Greninja's annoying in this meta...
You didn't include Mega Slowbro in that list, aka undeniably the most notable thing Celebi handles and likely the biggest reason Celebi is seeing increased use? Smh.
I'm really liking Tentacruel in this new meta, particaluarly for countering Greninja lacking Extrasensory. Tentacruel is also, imo, the best defensive spinner in the game and probably the best spinner in the game for teams not running Tyranitar or Hippowdon (im looking at you Excadrill). With a set of Scald, Toxic, Knock Off, and Rapid Spin it provides an excellent switch in for not only Greninja, but Keldeo and Ferrothorn too (Liquid Ooze really helps with Leech Seed). It also checks a lot of things and has a good defensive typing on tip of this. The only thing it really has to watch out for is substitute users...
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While we're talking about how new Mega Evolutions are affecting the metagame, a really sadistic part of me wants to allow Mega Rayquaza into OU for a moment if only to watch how that thing would curbstomp the rest of the tier into oblivion.
No, thanks. For your sadistic fantasies, feel free to private message ginganinja.
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Somewhat of a relic from generations ago, but with SpDef Empoleon seeing more usage in current ORAS play, is there any way AgiliPoleon could function as a decent surprise mid-late game cleaner?
Smashes a good number of the new megas around, and can net a setup on the ever-present 'ninja (non LK). I used to have great fun with it, and subverting the expected seems to be one of the strongest tactics atm.
Smashes a good number of the new megas around, and can net a setup on the ever-present 'ninja (non LK). I used to have great fun with it, and subverting the expected seems to be one of the strongest tactics atm.
You have to run Timid so you can outspeed Scarf Lando-T, but even then I don't know if it would be viable. Some high level replays would be nice.
Mega Aerodactyl is so impressive in this metagame. It outspeeds and OHKO's so many relevant threats. (I'm using the standard spread with 44 in defense so that Talonbird cannot 2HKO)
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 300-356 (90.6 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Salamence can't OHKO you back with Return, even at +1. I know a lot of them run bulkier spreads, but this is still significant. You can switch in on the Sub, break it, take the hit and then OHKO the next turn.
Aerial Ace alone destroys all the speedy new Megas.
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 272-324 (97.8 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 276-326 (101.8 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 332-392 (118.1 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 528-624 (194.8 - 230.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Great speed + coverage. It always puts in work.
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 300-356 (90.6 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Salamence can't OHKO you back with Return, even at +1. I know a lot of them run bulkier spreads, but this is still significant. You can switch in on the Sub, break it, take the hit and then OHKO the next turn.
Aerial Ace alone destroys all the speedy new Megas.
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 272-324 (97.8 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 276-326 (101.8 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 332-392 (118.1 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
212 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 528-624 (194.8 - 230.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Great speed + coverage. It always puts in work.
Can confirm. Mega Aero is hilariously Anti-Meta and for me is THE most reliable MegaMence check. It beats I think literally every new mega with AA/SE/Ice Fang/Crunch, and destroys many top threats. You can carry EQ to take out Heatran/Ttar but I find Crunch/AA more useful personally, for Lati's and Bro and a few other pokemon.
It's amazing in this meta as a counter-threat.
I've been a big fan of M-Aero for a while, tbh I think the best place for him is on stall (or at least more defensively-minded teams). Stall needs pressure nowadays and M-Aero's unique typing makes him useful defensively (countering Pinsir, Beedrill, Salamence, etc.), but also gives you a huge threat against frail offensive teams since you outspeed almost everything they have. I don't really think he's the best on offense since I'd usually rather be running something like Mega-Manectric that keeps momentum, but something like AA/SE/Ice Fang/Roost on stall is a pretty good use of a mega. With a set like that you loosen a lot of restrictions on stall's teambuilding because you have a backup to a whole bunch of huge threats like:
Char-Y:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl in Sun: 164-193 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lando:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 212-250 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Venu:
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
DDNite:
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 240-283 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which goes well with all the stuff you straight-up counter. The biggest issue is that you have major 4MSS - Aerial Ace is mandatory, but after that you're picking 3 out of Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Aqua Tail, Ice Fang, Fire Fang, Earthquake, Taunt, Roost, and maybe even support options like Defog or Stealth Rock. You still get roadblocked by common stall Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Slowbro etc., but that's kinda inevitable.
Char-Y:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl in Sun: 164-193 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lando:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 212-250 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Venu:
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
DDNite:
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 240-283 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which goes well with all the stuff you straight-up counter. The biggest issue is that you have major 4MSS - Aerial Ace is mandatory, but after that you're picking 3 out of Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Aqua Tail, Ice Fang, Fire Fang, Earthquake, Taunt, Roost, and maybe even support options like Defog or Stealth Rock. You still get roadblocked by common stall Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Slowbro etc., but that's kinda inevitable.
jpw234
I think the biggest thing stall loses from running m-aero is the ability to run mega sableye, who functions as a stallbreaker, a check/counter to an impressive array of pokemon, anti-hazard support, and a win con all at once. M-aero only has one of those features, that it functions as a check to a, admittedly impressive, variety of powerful offensive threats. Being blocked by stallmons like bro and ferro really isn't an issue because stall never had any issues swapping into these mons in the first place and they are easily taken care of with things like taunt, phasers, etc (which any stall team should be running anyway).
I think the biggest thing stall loses from running m-aero is the ability to run mega sableye, who functions as a stallbreaker, a check/counter to an impressive array of pokemon, anti-hazard support, and a win con all at once. M-aero only has one of those features, that it functions as a check to a, admittedly impressive, variety of powerful offensive threats. Being blocked by stallmons like bro and ferro really isn't an issue because stall never had any issues swapping into these mons in the first place and they are easily taken care of with things like taunt, phasers, etc (which any stall team should be running anyway).
Okay, so who remembers this thing :
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-team.47785/
For those who don't know, this is the legendary "obistall" team, basically the defining stall team of gen 4 OU , relying on stacking hazards and wearing the opponent down with passive damage.
I actually noticed a few similarities between what is shaping up to be ORAS OU stall and good old Obistall, so much that I decided to basically copy this team, make minor adjustments (Counter>BB on Skarm, Acid Spray>HP Electric on Tenta, Bold Chansey over Calm Blissey, and replacing Spiritomb by Mega-Sableye) and just use it in ORAS. Team gets completely 6-0'd by MHera and MGarde, but despite that it's been working pretty well, despite more-or-less being a joke team.
Replays :
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/orasou-184107696
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/orasou-184124209
So yeah, it looks like stall has kinda reverted back to the gen 4 builds, except less reliant on hazards mainly because of Defog being a thing. Pretty interesting if you ask me.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/stall-team.47785/
For those who don't know, this is the legendary "obistall" team, basically the defining stall team of gen 4 OU , relying on stacking hazards and wearing the opponent down with passive damage.
I actually noticed a few similarities between what is shaping up to be ORAS OU stall and good old Obistall, so much that I decided to basically copy this team, make minor adjustments (Counter>BB on Skarm, Acid Spray>HP Electric on Tenta, Bold Chansey over Calm Blissey, and replacing Spiritomb by Mega-Sableye) and just use it in ORAS. Team gets completely 6-0'd by MHera and MGarde, but despite that it's been working pretty well, despite more-or-less being a joke team.
Replays :
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/orasou-184107696
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/orasou-184124209
So yeah, it looks like stall has kinda reverted back to the gen 4 builds, except less reliant on hazards mainly because of Defog being a thing. Pretty interesting if you ask me.
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