Lower Tiers ORAS NU Role Compendium

I agree with what the majority has already said like boltsandbombers in that a pursuit section isn't really warranted. I honestly think it would be much more trouble than anything. When you compare how many pokemon actually learn the move pursuit versus how many good users there are of the move its a huge difference. I think it would quickly become a category where people would continously nom subpar pokemon into the category solely because they learn pursuit and thus should be in the "pursuit" section even if they are mons that should never run the move.

I don't think a dual screens section is a bad idea though. While not a driving force of the metagame by any means we actually do have many decent screen setters that aid the abundant set up sweepers in the tier.
As someone who never played NU, I came to this thread to see what's up with this tier, and I'm pretty surprised no one came with this yet...

Dual Screens:
Offensive:

Defensive:


Please, understand I'm not sure about the mons above being really offensive/defensive and viable or not.
/dexsearch reflect, light screen, nu, all:
Audino-Mega, Aurorus, Claydol, Cryogonal, Exeggutor, Gothitelle, Jynx, Malamar, Mesprit, Musharna, Piloswine, Rotom, Torterra, Xatu

Not making fun of you or anything obviously you are new to the tier as you said so you don't know what mons should and shouldn't be running screens. The idea of someone actually running dual screens piloswine amuses me though.

But I think it should look like this if it was actually added.

Dual Screens:


I ditched the Offensive/Defensive thing as I felt it was rather redundant since almost all screen setters are defensive and designating the few that aren't really isn't worth it considering dual screens really isn't a huge driving force of the metagame anyways.
 

Kiyo

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I'm less keen on adding a section specifically for Dual Screens users, pokemon in NU rarely have two free moveslots to give up like that. However almost all the pokemon that have access to dual screens I can see having one free moveslot to run either Reflect or Light Screen at least some of the time (i.e. Reflect Cryogonal, Light Screen Xatu) these are things that I've done in the past. I guess I'd be ok with a list of both Reflect and Light Screen users seperated with maybe a way to show which ones commonly carry both (maybe an asterisk by the pokemon's sprite?)
 

Disjunction

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I think a lot of the issues with most of the sections people have been trying to add lately are that they're redundant when we have access to /ds on ps. Other sections in the compendium lend a hand in areas that dex search doesn't, like showing Crustle is not a defensive Rocker and Gurdurr is a good Klingklang check. Screens and pursuit support are so limited that I don't see why a user couldn't just run a /ds command to find them.
 

boltsandbombers

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I've removed Choie Scarf users for a few reasons:
  • Scarfers in general arent that great in the current metagame
  • The mons listed in the section either a. just get pursuit trapped or b. are extremely sub optimal sets
Here are some explanations for the individual mons:
Mesprit - yes its a good revenge killer but non choiced Mepsrit is just better overall to fully utilize Mesprits wide coverage movepool, also huge Pursuit bait.
Haunter & Rotom - Trick is great and all, but being super pursuit bait sucks when you could be using their other sets which can burn Skunk.
Aurorus - contrary to the dex and Sam's belief, I think this is an awful set and I personally would only use specs or sash stealth rock.
Ditto - idk when the last time someone actually used this was

I think I got the point across, scarfers just arent important enough to have their own section.

Added Mesprit to weather setters.

If anyone has suggestions for reordering the sections (ie x section should be above x section) feel free to chime in, I started this a long time ago so some aspects of teambuilding may not be as important now as they were in previous metagames.
 

Deej Dy

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First time looking here in a while, but I think that:

- Musharna isn't really a Malacheck (it has to sacrifice one of it's better sets to be Signal/Colbur and have no prior damage)

- Offensive Mawile IS a Mala check (unless random Mala above 200 speed)

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 455-538 (121 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 307-361 (81.6 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-Defensive or Offensive Granbull IS a Malamar check

252+ Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 228-270 (60.6 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 168-200 (44.6 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 0 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Granbull: 116-137 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Boufoolant (Fusk spelling) IS an offensive Malamar check (I usually run at least 190+ speed for Choice Band)

252+ Atk Choice Band Bouffalant Megahorn vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malamar: 568-672 (151 - 178.7%) -- guaranteed OHK)
0 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 170-200 (47.6 - 56%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO


Source: Am eternally paranoid of Malamar.
 
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Gothitelle is a possible addition to stallbreakers/taunt users, because CM + Taunt has its nuances, but it isn't very good outside of that, so idk
 

Ren-chon

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Some quick nominations that I think are worth listing: Skuntank for offensive hazard control (LO Special), Weezing for defensive Malamar check (the Taunt/WoW fast set), Carracosta as an offensive and defensive Fire-type check (both due to AJet, even tho the defensive set doesn't hit as hard obv), and Floatzel as an offensive Fire-type check as well.
 
I don't get why scarfers were removed, they may not be _excellent_ but I have a hard time believing they are entirely unviable. Scarfers are still a decent way to revenge kill and pursuit (which is a similar issue for different mons as well) is not enough of an issue to completely invalidate them.
 
I'm curious how rotom fan is a defensive archeops check?
I'm not a huge fan of defensive rotom-s just due to its typing. IG the answer is yes it is a full counter to any Archeops without a Rock STAB, but that's the same as asking "is defensive lampent a good check to pyroar" yes because it cant hit in the first place, but at the end of the day it really isnt what makes or breaks a mon lmao.
 

Kiyo

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I'm curious how rotom fan is a defensive archeops check?
most archeops don't run Rock-type moves, making Rotom-S a pretty hard counter. Rotom-S also has the utility of being a great Scyther check and a solid Sawk check as well so it has that going for it!
 
Because Sleep inducers are so deadly in this meta with fast inducers such as Jumnpluff, Vivillon, Lilligant and Jynx with little drawback and the fact that letting them set up for free (as long as you can hit the move :]) can spell doom for your team . I was thinking maybe putting a Sleep Absorber section could help out players looking to fit a Sleep abosrober on their team to patch up weaknesses to these threats. Mons that commonly run sleep talk like Specs Swellow and CroDino could also fit under this as a sub-category as well as mons with Vital Spirit, Insomnia and Grass mons for powder moves.
 

Ren-chon

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I don't really think a Sleep Absorber section should be added, because the options would be quite obvious ones: Xatu, Magmortar, Audino, Specs Swellow and Grass-types. It would be a somewhat large category but with like 0 diversity and "surprises", meaning it wouldn't be that helpful even for new players. If anything, we should make a category for 'mons who use Sleep inducing moves, rather than ones that absorb those, as then new players would be able to know what commonly runs Lovely Kiss, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis and such, rather than knowing how to check sleep inducers without an idea who they are.
 
I don't really think a Sleep Absorber section should be added, because the options would be quite obvious ones: Xatu, Magmortar, Audino, Specs Swellow and Grass-types. It would be a somewhat large category but with like 0 diversity and "surprises", meaning it wouldn't be that helpful even for new players. If anything, we should make a category for 'mons who use Sleep inducing moves, rather than ones that absorb those, as then new players would be able to know what commonly runs Lovely Kiss, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis and such, rather than knowing how to check sleep inducers without an idea who they are.
why not add both, because if the new players dont know who the sleep inducers are, they they probably wont know the absorbers either. You can't really have one without the other. And on your point about sleep inducers, there's three anyway. Because all the hypnosis runners are either gimmick sets; bad pokemon or have something better to run.
 
why not add both, because if the new players dont know who the sleep inducers are, they they probably wont know the absorbers either. You can't really have one without the other. And on your point about sleep inducers, there's three anyway. Because all the hypnosis runners are either gimmick sets; bad pokemon or have something better to run.
Well 4 if you count pluff or Lilli i dont know who you are excluding but i agree with adding both absorbers , immune and inducers
 
Sleep

Inducers:
Immune:
Immune to Sleep Powder : Any Grass Mon/Overcoat Mon here
Absorbers:

For inducers the FIrst four are the most common and relevant however offensive Roselia/Tangela commonly carries SLeep Powder to gain momentum on offensive teams. Victreebell and Eggy commonly run sleep powder, even though they don't have the speed to be
threatening like the major 4 inducers. Finally, Vileplume usually runs a Hidden powder on its filler moveslot yet it can carry it and get a surprise cripple on a switch in which can be huge.

The only strange mon on Immune is Gourgeist since it only helps block Lovely Kiss from Jynx. However, Gourgeist run Shadow Sneak on some sets which can OHKO jynx on a predicted sleep powder switch which can lead to hilarious reactions expecting the passive def set.

For absorbers I put the 3 most common Res-Talk users, even though Poliwrath is usually the Special Tank and not the Rest Talk Def set. Specs Swellow usually runs Sleep Talk on the Specs set due to the utility of it and its shallow movepool but if someone can think of other choice users that run Sleep Talk commonly not named Regice/Flareon then that could also work.

Just some suggestions since the Sleep Status can be game changing in this meta.
 
Well 4 if you count pluff or Lilli i dont know who you are excluding but i agree with adding both absorbers , immune and inducers
i forgot pluff lol
Sleep

Inducers:
Immune:
Immune to Sleep Powder : Any Grass Mon/Overcoat Mon here
Absorbers:

For inducers the FIrst four are the most common and relevant however offensive Roselia/Tangela commonly carries SLeep Powder to gain momentum on offensive teams. Victreebell and Eggy commonly run sleep powder, even though they don't have the speed to be
threatening like the major 4 inducers. Finally, Vileplume usually runs a Hidden powder on its filler moveslot yet it can carry it and get a surprise cripple on a switch in which can be huge.

The only strange mon on Immune is Gourgeist since it only helps block Lovely Kiss from Jynx. However, Gourgeist run Shadow Sneak on some sets which can OHKO jynx on a predicted sleep powder switch which can lead to hilarious reactions expecting the passive def set.

For absorbers I put the 3 most common Res-Talk users, even though Poliwrath is usually the Special Tank and not the Rest Talk Def set. Specs Swellow usually runs Sleep Talk on the Specs set due to the utility of it and its shallow movepool but if someone can think of other choice users that run Sleep Talk commonly not named Regice/Flareon then that could also work.

Just some suggestions since the Sleep Status can be game changing in this meta.
Also, vileplume cant really run powder now because it needs hp fire/ground to not give kk free turns, other than that, i mostly agree with the list, although ape and gourg are iffy because vivi can just click hurri the next turn
 
i forgot pluff lol

Also, vileplume cant really run powder now because it needs hp fire/ground to not give kk free turns, other than that, i mostly agree with the list, although ape and gourg are iffy because vivi can just click hurri the next turn
I mean GOurgeist small is outclassed by the other sizes but if using an offensive one it actually outspeeds Viv or could break its sash with shadow sneak but ya Its sort of irrelevant. Primeape also outspeeds Viv so it can switch in on a predicted powder and hit stone edge or Uturn but its also risky. Most I was ust listing the relevant mons in NU with sleep powder. We could even put down Stall Breaker Sp DEf Vigoroth since people have used it successfully in NU. Vileplume can run a support move in the last slot if oyu have a Garb or Lanturn or dedicated Klink counter who can switch into Klink and Plume can always use it on the switch.
 
Sleep

Inducers:
Immune:
Immune to Sleep Powder : Any Grass Mon/Overcoat Mon here
Absorbers:

For inducers the FIrst four are the most common and relevant however offensive Roselia/Tangela commonly carries SLeep Powder to gain momentum on offensive teams. Victreebell and Eggy commonly run sleep powder, even though they don't have the speed to be
threatening like the major 4 inducers. Finally, Vileplume usually runs a Hidden powder on its filler moveslot yet it can carry it and get a surprise cripple on a switch in which can be huge.

The only strange mon on Immune is Gourgeist since it only helps block Lovely Kiss from Jynx. However, Gourgeist run Shadow Sneak on some sets which can OHKO jynx on a predicted sleep powder switch which can lead to hilarious reactions expecting the passive def set.

For absorbers I put the 3 most common Res-Talk users, even though Poliwrath is usually the Special Tank and not the Rest Talk Def set. Specs Swellow usually runs Sleep Talk on the Specs set due to the utility of it and its shallow movepool but if someone can think of other choice users that run Sleep Talk commonly not named Regice/Flareon then that could also work.

Just some suggestions since the Sleep Status can be game changing in this meta.
Gourgeist isn't immune to lovely kiss lol the only reason jynx is so good is cause it's status move doesn't check immunities.
 
Gourgeist isn't immune to lovely kiss lol the only reason jynx is so good is cause it's status move doesn't check immunities.
Insomnia is by far the inferior ability but it does exist if people want to run a very niche jynx check. Im sure shadow sneak ohkos with some investment if you switch into a predicted kiss since they will expect you to run frisk like 90% of them will
 

Blast

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I really don't think we need a sleep section anyway. For one, "sleep inducer" and "sleep immunity / absorber" are pretty much never specific roles that anyone needs on a team, especially the former. Plus, many of those absorbers listed are shaky-at-best sleep checks because of how many different sleep inducers there are. It should also be a given most Pokemon with a non-Hypnosis sleep move usually run them, and that when you face one you need to be careful what gets put to sleep.
 
Gourgeist-Super should get added to Defensive Fighting-Checks since it can beat Sawk with Colbur and can cripple it with WoW, and has recovery in Synthesis.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 107-126 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 144-170 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Xatu should be under Malamar checks, and perhaps Vileplume since Worry Seed.
Lilligant Checks:
Offensive:

Defensive:


I probably went too far and listed some stuff that's too niche but w/e
 
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