Gen 6 ORAS NU Speed Tiers

Credit to galbia and unfixable for the original thread
Approved by Zebraiken's lack of response when I asked for permission


Stat / Pokemon / Base / Nature / EVs / Boost


Tier 0 Higher than Max Neutral Base 180 (460 and higher) - Boost Required


700 / Jumpluff / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +2
690 / Ninjask / 160 / +Spe / 252 / +1
568 / Kabutops, Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 80 / +2
558 / Klinklang / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +2
525 / Tauros / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1
524 / Ludicolo / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
518 / Stoutland, Shiftry, Altaria, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
516 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / +2
513 / Pyroar / 106 / +Spe / 252 / +1
512 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 /+2
508 / Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
478 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Primeape, Jynx, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
470 / Barbaracle / 68 / Neutral / 252 / +2
464 / Torterra / 56 / +Spe / 252 / +2
463 / Rotom / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
460 / Ninjask / 160 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 1 - Max base 127 to Max Neutral Base 180 (384 - 459) - Boost Required

459 / Lilligant / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Omastar, Combusken / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
458 / Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +2
457 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
456 / Vivillon / 89 / +Spe / 252 / +1
447 / Rotom-F, Rotom-S / 86 / +Spe / 252 / +1
446 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / +2
430 / Aurorus / 58 / Neutral / 252 / +2
426 / Mesprit / 80 / +Spe / 252 / +1
422 / Torterra / 56 / Neutral / 252 / +2
419 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 252 / 0
418 / Exeggutor, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
418 / Lilligant / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
416 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
414 / Crustle / 45 / +Spe / 252 / +2
406 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +2
392 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
388 / Mesprit, Altaria, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
387 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / +1
384 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Tier 2 - Max base 91 to Max Base 125 (309 - 383)


383 / Swellow / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
379 / Electrode / 140 / Neutral / 252 / 0
364 / Zebstrika / 116 / +Spe / 252 / 0
361 / Floatzel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
358 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / +2
354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
350 / Tauros, Archeops, Jumpluff, Raichu / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
342 / Liepard, Pyroar / 106 / +Spe / 252 / 0
339 / Cryogonal, Mismagius, Kadabra, Scyther, Manectric, Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Simipour, Simisage, Simisear / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Charizard, Ninetales, Dodrio / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Gourgeist-S / 99 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / +2
324 / Swanna, Basculin / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
322 / Frogadier / 97 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Xatu, Primeape, Jynx, Sawsbuck, Electivire, Haunter / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
311 / Leavanny / 92 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Chatot, Murkrow, Rotom / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 3 - Max Base 70 to Max Base 90 (261 – 306)

306 / Kangaskhan, Zangoose, Lilligant, Mr. Mime / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
305 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0
304 / Vivillon / 89 / +Spe / 252 / 0
298 / Rotom-S, Rotom-F / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 0
295 / Pinsir, Illumise / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Electivire, Leafeon / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 0
284 / Mesprit, Kabutops, Shiftry, Glalie / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
279 / Kangaskhan, Lilligant, Klinklang, Zangoose / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
278 / Lilligant [Hidden Power Fire] / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
273 / Garbodor, Claydol, Smeargle / 75 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Articuno, Pinsir, Illumise / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0
265 / Magmortar / 83 / Neutral / 252 / 0
262 / Ludicolo, Samurott / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Tier 4 - Max Neutral Base 52 to Max Neutral Base 80 (204 – 259)


259 / Grumpig, Mesprit, Shiftry Kabutops, Drifblim, Stoutland, Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
258 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / 0
257 / Vanilluxe / 79 / Neutral / 252 / 0
256 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
251 / Kricketune, Flareon, Roselia / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
245 / Malamar / 73 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 144 / 0
240 / Abomasnow / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Ludicolo, Samurott, Mantine, Poliwrath, Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
236 / Miltank / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
236 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
235 / Barbaracle / 68 / Neutral / 252 / 0
233 / Fraxure / 67 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Flareon, Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
229 / Omastar, Combusken, Cacturne / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
226 / Xatu / 95 / Neutral / 0 / 0
223 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Abomasnow, Pawniard, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
215 / Aurorus, Rampardos / 58 / Neutral / 252 / 0
211 / Torterra, Trevenant / 56 / Neutral / 252 / 0
209 / Omastar, Golurk, Cacturne, Combusken, Exeggutor, Ampharos / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Crustle / 45 / +Spe / 252 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 5 - Min Base 54 to Max Base 50 (144 – 199)


199 / Aggron, Mawile / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
196 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
196 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
186 / Garbodor, Claydol / 75 / Neutral / 0 / 0
183 / Weezing / 60 / Neutral / 108 / 0
182 / Malamar / 73 / Neutral / 0 / 0
179 / Carracosta / 32 / +Spe / 252 / 0
179 / Rhydon, Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
176 / Mantine, Poliwrath, Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Gogoat / 68 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Flareon, Pelipper, Roselia, Sandslash / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
163 / Carracosta / 32 / Neutral / 252 / 0
156 / Weezing, Sliggoo, Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
148 / Torterra, Trevenant / 56 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Omastar, Golurk / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
145 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 116 / 0
144 / Gourgeist-XL / 54 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Tier 6 - Min Base 50 Speed and lower (136 and lower)


137 / Machoke / 45 / Neutral / 44 / 0
136 / Hariyama, Mawile, Metang, Muk, Regirock, Lickilicky, Vileplume, Mega Audino, Piloswine / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
135 / Vileplume [Hidden Power Fire] / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Rhydon, Gurdurr, Kecleon, Camerupt, Frillish / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
106 / Clefairy / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0
102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0
100 / Stunfisk / 32 / Neutral / 0 / 0
96 / Steelix / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
90 / Carracosta / 32 / -Spe / 0 / 0
82 / Bronzor / 23 / Neutral / 0 / 0
76 / Beheeyem (0 IV) / 40 / -Spe / 0 /0
56 / Musharna (0 IV) / 29 / -Spe / 0 / 0
56 / Ferroseed / 10 / Neutral / 0 / 0
22 / Ferroseed (0 IV) / 10 / -Spe / 0 / 0
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've updated this with the removal of Typhlosion and Mega Camerupt and tried to make the actual tier benchmarks more realistic to relevant Pokemon in NU. If I am missing anything (and I'm sure I am), please let me know, and I'll add it.
 

boltsandbombers

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Few comments:
  • Why is +spe scarf Tauros listed? I thought we decided that it's not a good set, so I don't see why it should be here's. Scarf Raichu also seems odd.
  • Klinklang is a really weird case since I wouldn't say they often run 252 speed, but I don't know how specific we can go here with EV spreads.
  • I don't think boosted Uxie should be listed since while scarf Uxie is cool and all, I don't think it's relevant or common enough.
  • Sawsbuck should be listed with an adamant nature and +2 in the boost category since its a solid sun sweeper and scarf sawsbuck is really only a thing in PU.
  • Scarf Sawk is much better off with an adamant nature since it really needs that extra boost in power without CB / black belt / ebelt / etc. As such I think Jolly Scarf Sawk should be removed; and while there are a good number of threats that it outpaces with a positive nature, the lack in power in general is not worth it imo.
  • Ninetales isn't on the list ;_;
  • I don't think flareon runs a Jolly nature from what I've seen, and there really isn't much that it outspeeds compared to adamant; boost in power is more significant etc.
Ninetales is the only Pokemon that's actually missing and you should just be able to copy it over from the old thread, but the rest are just nitpicks :P
 
Ninetales sux (also wasn't in the last thread)

jolly flareon is fine IMHO, outrunning modest 70s is rly nice. not common for sure, but good enough to keep imo.

scarf jolly tauros is there because it's the fastest relevant scarfer in NU, and it's one of the only scarfers that can outrun +2 klinklang and +2 jolly barbaracle, so it does have some niche, tho yes I do think it mostly sucks.

left jolly scarf sawk (and jolly/timid scarf mesprit) because even tho they aren't as good, they do exist and are sometimes nice to outrun when you're EVing speed boosting sweepers

agree on scarf sawsbuck, I'll remove that

klinklang is Indeed Weird, but I just left it with max because that's the fastest it can possibly be, and there is no other one universally optimized spread. everyone just creeps stuff.

scarf uxie is fine. if it was on its own, I'd remove it, but that number is already there for other +1 95s.
 

Punchshroom

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Sawsbuck should be listed with an adamant nature and +2 in the boost category since its a solid sun sweeper and scarf sawsbuck is really only a thing in PU.
Considering Sawsbuck is one of the few Chlorophyll sweepers able to outspeed and check Lilligant, Jolly would still seem a viable option. That said, Adamant +2 Sawsbuck still hits an absurd 578 Speed which is faster than everything bar superspeed Ninjask, making Jolly +2 Sawsbuck's 638 Speed seem like overkill outside of Lilligant.

Btw, should +2 Lilligant (Chlorophyll) be listed, and should Victreebel listed alongside Ludicolo in Tier 0 (completely irrelevant outside of it)?
 
ninkask is viable

add +0 byss / huntail pls i had to divide a # by 2 so see what they hit pre boost, and math is hard
 

jeronipuff

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I think you should add the relevant swift swimmers in the rain and the chlorophyll users in the sun. Such as +2 Ludi and +2 Victreebel
 
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boltsandbombers

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I think you should add the relevant swift swimmers in the rain and the chlorophyll users in the sun. Such as +2 Ludi and +2 Victreebel
Ludicolo in the rain is already in Tier 0 - "478 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2"

Add neutral natured max speed Exeggutor please, the only Exeggutor mention is with 0 Speed, which on its own is nonexistant since even the LumRest set runs Speed investment for Lanturn.
 

Punchshroom

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why is Jolly Rhydon mentioned but not Adamant Rhydon? Isn't Adamant more common on RP Rhydon?

It has the same Speed as Jolly Costa so it should be easy to slot in anyway
 
it needed jolly to outspeed sneasel at +2, so it was better last meta at least. dunno why it wasn't there before, but I've added it.
 

Finchinator

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hollywood
red = delete
blue = add
204 / Fletchinder / 84 / Neutral / 0 / 0


188 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 0 / 0
251 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 252 / 0
276 / Hitmonchan / 76 / +Spe / 252 / 0

204 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 0 / 0
240 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 144 / 0
267 / Skuntank / 84 / Neutral / 252 / 0

259 / Shiftry / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
284 / Shiftry / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0


I suppose you can argue for Jolly Skuntank being added and a 240 Hitmonchan being added. If Jolly Skunk is added, it has no need to go further than 290 speed and should add the remaining 12 EVs to HP, so note that if you elect to add it.

edit: remove uxie mentions, too (oops missed that)
 
Last edited:

MZ

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I think you missed removing fletch at 204 from Fink's post, everything else was implemented
 
I think +2 neutral and timid Mantine could be added, without timid, it tie against Ludicolo, and a timid Mantine can outspeed Pyroar +1, Fraxure +2, Electabuzz/scyther +1 and Barbaracle

478 / Mantine / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
524 / Mantine / 76 / +Spe / 252 / +2
 

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