Lower Tiers ORAS NU Speed Tiers

[Kiyo]

Jolly 252 Fraxure at +0 and +1 should probably be added:

384 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / +1
256 / Fraxure / 67 / +Spe / 252 / 0

did.

if you guys see anything else on here make sure you post about it, I know I constantly go to this list and don't see the things I need so be sure to say something so we can keep it updated

 

[Deej Dy]

did.

if you guys see anything else on here make sure you post about it, I know I constantly go to this list and don't see the things I need so be sure to say something so we can keep it updated

barbacle smh

kiyo edit: fixed spelling lol

Deej edit: 470 / Barbacle / 68 / Neutral / 252 / +2 '___-

 

[Ren-chon]

116 / Rhydon, Togetic, Gurdurr, Probopass, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

Oh ya these should be added:

183 / Bouffalant / 55 / Neutral / 148 / 0
180 / Bouffalant / 55 / Neutral / 136 / 0

 

[ryan]

I try to avoid adding in too much creep unless it's the standard spread. Otherwise the speed tiers will be filled with creeping.

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

I try to avoid adding in too much creep unless it's the standard spread. Otherwise the speed tiers will be filled with creeping.

The spreads I posted are the standard spreads btw

 

[ryan]

There are a ton of different Bouffalant spreads. What I mean by standard spreads is when a Pokémon pretty much only runs one spread, such as when 240 stat Feraligatr was super common. A lot of stuff around the 40-55 base Speed range creeps other stuff in our just above that range, and adding in all of them wouldn't really accomplish much because then some people will creep those by one point, and some people will creep that creep by just a little bit more, etc. until max Speed Misdreavus becomes standard like in BW2 so it never lost the creep war with Skuntank.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Combed through here and wanted to comment on a few things.

525 / Tauros, Raichu / 110 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Scarf Raichu is a terrible set and doesnt exist at all, Raichu really isnt used much in the first place. I really don't think its worth listing it in the 525 speed tier. I dont think scarf Tauros is very good either but thats a more usable set than scarf Raichu.

516 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / +2

Adamant is almost always better on Barbaracle, I don't see why this is a relevant speed tier.

513 / Pyroar / 106 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Scarf Pyroar isn't exactly a good set or relevant one either, this really should be removed.

508 / Electabuzz, Scyther / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1

Electabuzz isnt on the viability rankings and its not even at 0.5% usage on the ladder, please remove this. Scarf Scyther is fine tho, generally I don't think its that great but on some teams, like Kiyo's Shedinja team, its fits perfectly.

464 / Torterra / 56 / +Spe / 252 / +2

Jolly is a very good option on Rock Polish Torterra, please add this in.

458 / Golurk / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2

Rock Polish Golurk runs Adamant I'm pretty sure, and while it can be argued that maybe Jolly is better for some reason I think it'd be best if we kept things consistent between the dex sets and here.

258 / Barbaracle / 68 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Same as above.

239 / Ludicolo, Samurott, Mightyena, Luxray, Mantine, Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Mightyena isn't relevant or used enough to be listed here.

232 / Torterra / 56 / +Spe / 252 / 0

Same as above, please add this.

Exeggutor always runs Speed investment, no point in listing it at the 146 Speed tier.

Dis edit: Luxray also isn't relevant fwiw

 

[ryan]

there's no point in removing information, all it does is take away something that could potentially be helpful for somebody in exchange for what? making the thread a little bit shorter? i especially don't want to remove the fast stuff because people should know what can outspeed certain things (i.e. my team looks pretty ludicolo weak, what all can outrun it in the rain?)

on exeggutor, see the above posts about bouffalant

scarf raichu is probably better than scarf tauros too, but this thread isn't to argue pokemon viability so i digress

why would you need jolly on rp torterra? for scarf rotom? seems super sketchy

 

[Machineae]

On why to removing things: I would think to make things less confusing for a newer player. If I see Mightyena listed I'm gonna think it's a relevant threat I should prep for.

 

[Freeroamer]

Tip stolen from someone in another thread very similar to this, if stuff in this list offends you or you don't think it needs to be there, copy and paste the list into a pastebin, Google document, word processor etc. and remove all that shit. End result you're left with the list you wanted

 

[Louna]

480 / Klinklang / 90 / Neutral / 96 / +2
240 / Klinklang / 90 / Neutral / 96 / 0

This should be added, while it's the spread of the analysis

 

[Ren-chon]

116 / Rhydon, Togetic, Gurdurr, Probopass, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0

I know you guys like it and would love to have it back, but...

Dis edit: I did this

 

[Oda]

I know you guys like it and would love to have it back, but...

You can blame pokeaim for that jump from PU to RU when he posted a live of Togetic Nasty Passing and sweeping on its own in RU. Was always surprised why it jumped 2 tiers even though technically it was only 1.

 

[Blast]

remove Pinsir and Granbull, also I have a couple things to add:

Tier 0: Kabutops should be added to +2 base 80s. Also there should be a section for +2 Timid Ludicolo (524) and +2 Jolly Kabutops / Shiftry (568)

Tier 2: Add Jumpluff and Raichu alongside Tauros and Archeops

Tier 4: Neutral Combusken should be added along with Golurk and Cacturne, and Timid Busken should be given its own section (229). Timid Aurorus and Jolly Rampardos (236) aren't super common but they have some uses on sash lead sets so they're also worth adding. Add Sash Roselia too at 251 if real

And most importantly, where's Vanilluxe???

This last one's maybe a bit more sketchy but add 40 Spe Lanturn too imo, it's the only Lanturn spread I see anyone use anymore so I think it's common enough to be the new standard. 80 Timid Xatu's in a similar boat

 

[lolbro]

176 / Mantine, Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Gogoat / 68 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0

why are these still here? One is an ass mon, and arguably all three should be at least running enough for ada don, even more in poli's case.

188 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 0 / 0

see above reasoning, there's really no point to keep these here, they just confuse people, because if im new, and im running ada don, then get bopped by a lanturn or a mantine because i think i outspeed, then im gonna be mad, and if I have (insert base 70) in, and chan comes in and bops me, i'ma be furios lmao.

e: for quick clarification, that's 16 speed mantine, 32 speed gogoat and 40 speed lanturn. Then chan should have like, 144 speed and 212 sets imo, but that might be contradicting myself lol

 

[Disjunction]

176 / Mantine, Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
172 / Gogoat / 68 / Neutral / 0 / 0
170 / Lanturn / 67 / Neutral / 0 / 0

why are these still here? One is an ass mon, and arguably all three should be at least running enough for ada don, even more in poli's case.

188 / Hitmonchan / 76 / Neutral / 0 / 0

see above reasoning, there's really no point to keep these here, they just confuse people, because if im new, and im running ada don, then get bopped by a lanturn or a mantine because i think i outspeed, then im gonna be mad, and if I have (insert base 70) in, and chan comes in and bops me, i'ma be furios lmao.

e: for quick clarification, that's 16 speed mantine, 32 speed gogoat and 40 speed lanturn. Then chan should have like, 144 speed and 212 sets imo, but that might be contradicting myself lol

this resource isn't really for new players trying to figure out sets. It's simply a reference sheet for if you're in a situation where you need to know benchmarks a certain mon hits. Mantine, RestTalk Poliwrath, and Lanturn are not obligated to run creep so knowing the number they hit at neutral speed can be helpful. There's really no point in obscuring information here on the premise that "they SHOULDN'T be running this mon without creep" because you'll find that people will often not run the creep.

On that note, I think including stuff like 40 speed lanturn is fine because that's almost standard at this point, but that's for ryan to decide.

 

[Disjunction]

744 / Sceptile / 120 / +Spe / 252 / +2
594 / Sceptile / 120 / Neutral / 84 / +2
372 / Sceptile / 120 / +Spe / 252 / 0
96 / Steelix / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
58 / Steelix (0 IV) / 30 / -Spe / 0 / 0
229 / Banette / 65 / Neutral / 252 / 0
147 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 116 / 0
179 / Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0 (was missing max Speed Kec)
358 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2 (was missing Adamant +2 Speed Rhydon)
392 / Camerupt / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
116 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
104 / Camerupt / 40 / -Spe / 0 / 0
196 / Altaria, Mesprit / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0 (Defensive Mesprit wasn't on list)
259 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
388 / Altaria / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1

I added all of these because I really wanted something to do over doing my essay. I also added all of the stuff Blast mentioned because he's a cutie.

e: oh yea I also added altaria to the +2 speed neutral bracket and went through with 40 speed lanturn cause it's on the analysis. if I fucked up any spreads lmk
e2: oh I forgot to add bulky scept at neutral let me get that now
e3: crisis averted my dudes
e4: looked over the list again and added Fast Weezing (relevant spread!), Timid Claydol, Metang, and +2 Speed Jumpluff (iffy but it's a good sun check)
e5: yea ryan if you hate any of these you can delete them I'm just doing this to stall for time
e6: like really, my prof wants a 2 page essay on what we learned in her class, but I didn't learn shit cause it's a writing class for babies

 

[Disjunction]

added some misc stuff like Murkrow, Clefairy, Lapras, and Glalie if anyone wanted to know!

 

[The Original Syn]

Tier 1 says 388 - 459 but has +1 Fraxure at 384 there. Something needs to be edited.

Disj edit: did

 

[lolbro]

223 / Gorebyss, Huntail / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0

i get neither mon is really used, but it should be neither or both imo

Disj edit: there's no reason to remove information from the list. it just makes it a worse guide.

e: ok so why wouldnt huntail be in both speed tiers?

 

[Shadestep]

I think you should implement Scarf Barbaracle and Kabutops in here, since they're pretty common now
Barbaracle: Adamant = 352 Spe (idk if you should implement both, Adamant seems kinda redundant as you still get outsped by floatzel)
Jolly = 387 Spe

Kabutops: Adamant = 388 Spe
Jolly = 426 Spe

evan edit: did

 

[rs]

I don't really post in the NU subforum but I did a Scarf Rampardos analysis, which isn't in the Speed Tiers, so it should be added . Adamant prolly shouldn't be used as it needs to outrun things like Tauros and Archeops so here's just Jolly Scarf.

354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1

bolts edit: added

 

[Shadestep]

could you add RP Golurk to the list?

Jolly hits 418 after a speed boost.
Also sticky this thread please, it's a very valuable resource!

 

[Froggyboy]

199 / Mawile, Aggron / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0

218 / Aggron / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0

436 / Aggron / 50 / +Spe / 252 / +2


114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0

102 / Gastrodon / 39 / -Spe / 0 / 0

These should be added. Plus remove Quagsire from 106.
106 / Clefairy / 35 / Neutral / 0 / 0

bolts edit: did these bar +spe aggron