Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

[Celticpride]

Approved by myself

Welcome to the latest metagame discussion thread! Old thread was losing focus and getting stale, so hopefully a fresh thread will create renewed focus and energy. Thanks to Flamer for hosting the previous edition of this thread. This thread is a place to discuss metagame trends, usage stats relevant to the OU metagame, underrated Pokemon, and other things of that nature. THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO ASK SIMPLE QUESTIONS OR ONE LINERS THERE IS ANOTHER THREAD FOR THAT! Quoted below are some examples of good posts (and more examples will be added as this thread moves along!) that will hopefully set a good tone for the thread. Also note how the last example isn't particularly long, you don't need to write an essay to prove a point!

Examples of good posts

Some musings:

Hoopa-U is all the rage now, and it's interesting to see how people's perceptions of it have changed since its introduction. When Hoopa-U became legal, players wasted no time messing around with their new toy. Players were quick to slap on a LO and have their fun with its powerful attacks and large movepool. After players started to use Hoopa-U for a while though, its hype started to die down. While LO sets were nice and all, players were turned off by how quickly recoil took its toll on Hoopa-U's health and wore the thing down between SR and other residual damage like sand. This affected its wallbreaking abilities and quickly placed Hoopa-U in range to be killed by things like Latios. As the metagame evolved, this started to change as players discovered new ways to abuse Hoopa-U. Band sets made an appearance, eventually followed by Specs. Both CB and Specs lack the recoil issue, pack greater power, and don't have to split EVs in Atk and SpA like LO does. Specs variants in particular are quickly gaining traction and becoming known as Hoopa-U's most lethal set. Unlike CB Hoopa-U, Specs doesn't mind burns as much. Special sponges are in less supply compared to physical ones like Lando-T, and teams generally don't have much to take crazy special hits like a Specs Dark Pulse. Combine this with Psyshock to break the special sponges Dark Pulse can't take down, like Chansey, and you have a Pokemon able to deal insane damage from both sides unlike CB. Finally, Dark Pulse has no drawback unlike Hyperspace Fury's defense drop, and this is useful to avoid being killed by things like Scarf Tar's Pursuit. Add the several other sets Hoopa-U can use to the picture and it's easy to see why this thing has become so dominating and unpredictable lately. Overall, Hoopa-U is a very dangerous and strong Pokemon currently. The monster performs well versus the majority of playstyles and can usually grab a kill or more during a battle. If it doesn't, it's very likely to have severely weakened something before dying. I am interested to see if the hype continues or dies down in the coming weeks.

On the topic of Hoopa-U, I find U-turn + Volt Switch to be a good way to bring out its full potential. Hoopa-U really likes being brought in for free, and I think this is something people have grown to realize. This is a reason things like Rotom-W and others are commonly being seen paired with it now. Being passive is something to be very cautious of in today's metagame, and using strong attackers alongside U-turn and Volt Switch is a good way to apply pressure and maintain momentum on your side in general. Things like Torn-T and Lando-T having access to U-turn and being overall good Pokemon contributes to this. This strategy fits naturally with the bulky offensive styles currently running rampant.

As far as other observations go, Tar and sand in general is popular. Aside from how valuable Scarf Tar is to trap Hoopa-U, its abilities as a supporter with SR and Chople have gained recognition during the past few months. Being the premier sand setter to use alongside offensive powerhouses like Exca is also of note. I have been seeing CB variants popping up more here and there, and these are cool to wall break and trap growing trends like Mega Latias more effectively. Tar is probably a reason things like Gengar have seen sharp declines in usage too.

Speaking of Mega Latias, it's so popular. It has been everywhere over the months, and it's easy to see why. Its typing, impressive bulk, and good speed are all valuable to help teams deal with Pokemon that aren't very easy to cover, such as Keld, Char-Y, Thund-I, and many others. Blanket checking so much in one slot is really valuable for many builds. It helps that Mega Latias isn't passive either, possessing a good deal of power and coverage between Ice Beam and Thunderbolt to threaten offensive teams rather well. Something interesting I've found is the debate between Thunder Wave and Reflect Type. I think the latter is starting to become more and more appealing now to help Mega Latias win many more 1v1 matchups (Heatran, Ferro, Bisharp as examples).

Lando-T remains the bulky ground of choice. Intimidate, U-turn, SR, SD, and the ability to check things like Exca and Char-X while avoiding the passiveness of Pokemon like Hippo is great. It has been given the nudge over Chomp for a while now, and is a reason offensive variants of the land shark are generally favored now. Other trends like AV Tangrowth and Amoonguss also continue to be effective and help teams cover a wide range of threats, such as Keld, Mega Diancie, and Loom. Pokemon like Clefable and Keldeo are still as good as they've ever been too.

Any other observations you guys have noticed or thought about lately?

Goodra @ Choice Specs / Expert Belt
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast / Muddy Water

Please don't hurt me, but I'm honestly being dead serious lol, this thing is REALLY fun to use right now. Goodra is kind of that Pokemon that gets a really bad rap because of how low ladder players think slapping an Assault Vest on it makes it some sort of god, but it's so weak there's no reason to use it outside of Latios, Kyurem-B, etc, and defensively it's outclassed by Mega Latias. However, with Specs, it can take advantage of both its stellar special bulk, solid power, and VERY good coverage, which separates it from the other dragons. While I'd never use this outside of a Volcanion meta, with Volc being so dumb right now, I really like Goodra as an offensive check/switch-in to it because it takes 26% max from Specs Steam Eruption and Specs Draco just straight drops it on the floor. The reason why I even thought of using Goodra in the first place was because I was sick and tired of losing to Volc + T-tar, and while Goodra doesn't like being Pursuited, it can still actually threaten T-tar a lot more than Latios and it doesn't just straight lose to Scarf Pursuit. The current rise in bulky Waters, offensive Electrics, and Grass-types also work in Goodra's favor, as it's able to tank LO HP Ices from Thundy with such ease and repeated Volt Switches from Mega Manectric, and it is immune to Spore from Amoonguss and Breloom as well as Leaf Storm from Serp. Its coverage is so good lol, as it can hit a lot of common Dragon-type switch-ins very hard which is one of its biggest trump cards over other Dragons. Fire Blast roasts Steels, Sludge Wave easily 2HKOs Clef and OHKOes Azu after rocks, and Mega Gard with just a little bit of prior damage. Focus Blast is the best option in the last slot for dealing a ton of damage to Heatran (OHKOs offensive variants) and pimp slapping every common T-tar set. Muddy Water only 2HKOes them but is much more accurate, and it always OHKOs Mega Diancie. Thunderbolt can be used alongside Focus Blast instead of Fire Blast because both of these moves hit most common Steel-types, and T-bolt has the advantage of smacking bulky Waters more reliably, so it's a cool move to use as somewhat of a lure. I used Goodra on a sand team with Exca as my hazard remover, and it worked out really well lol. It also pairs pretty well with Volcanion because it can switch into practically any Electric, Grass, or Water-type. Max Timid is used over Modest for the ability to outspeed positive base 70s like Bish and Loom.

Goodra is by no means a top tier threat now or anything, or even worthy of rising a lot in the VR, because despite its advantages over the Latis and other Dragons it's pretty outclassed, and it's pretty weak to hazards + only somewhat above average SpA is really annoying for it. However, if you play it smart and to its strengths, it can actually preform pretty well. If the Volc hype dies than there's little point in using it, but as long as Volc is on like every team and everyone is spamming answers to it, Goodra is honestly something I wouldn't completely overlook. Give it a try, it's fun.

speaking of heracross

The opposing Heracross used Megahorn!
It's super effective! tangy tom lost 98.0% of its health!
The opposing Heracross is hurt by tangy tom's Rocky Helmet!

physically defensive tang is broken lol and yes that was with toxic orb activated

physical tang is such a good catch-all to a bunch of threats nowadays, taking on sand, breloom, other offensive grounds, rocks, etc, it just checks a billion things. not to mention its movepool is really expansive, giving you the option to check anything you want, with stuff like sleep powder to pressure torn-t and leech seed to gain recovery off everything, hp fire for ferro, eq for fires and electrics, rock slide for birds, hp ice for grounds, and the list goes on and on.

really, this mon is just amazing in the meta right now, though it sucks that stuff like specs keld scalds blow it back and all, but it's got av if it wants to handle that kinda stuff.

short post because its late and i need sleep, but yeah tang is just insane defensively.

With all that said, fire away!

 

[MANNAT]

One mon that I've been using on stall lately that I've liked lately is doublade. The ability to check all of Certain Zam sets, Terrakion (giant-ass threat to stall if banded), Mega Diancie, Clefable, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, and Mega Gardevoir in the same slot is invaluable for stall since they all can be huge threats to standard stall teams and its ability to be a wincon for stall with sd is really nice overall. Obviously doublade's lack of reliable recovery kinda sucks ass, but checking so many mons in one slot is so nice. Additionally, it doesn't drop to dragmag builds like non-shed shell skarm does since it's a ghost type and can switch out along with it having really good offensive coverage in between its STABs and sacred sword. Also, if you find yourself relying on doublade to check every single one of these threats in one slot, then you can also run a restalk gyro set that can check all of these mons decently well at the cost of offensive presence and forcing you to run a wincon in another slot. When i build with doublade, i generally try to have a couple of backup checks to all of these mons just in case I see like Banded Terrak+Mega Medicham on the same team or something like that so that doublade doesn't have so much pressure on it to check both mons in the same slot, but that's just my personal preference when using this thing. Overall, doublade is an interesting option for stall teams that can be used to patch up weaknesses to common stallbreakers, but has some issues such as relying on restalk if it wants recovery as well as being weak to common offensive types such as fire and ground.

 

[Master B8s]

Has anyone been experimenting with ev spread and move sets for mega-Diance? I'm just getting back to using this thing and I've heard a lot has changed for it. I heard hp fire should always be run instead of earth power because beating scizor, ferrothorn and skarmory (some on the switch) is invaluable right now. Also I heard about a 252atk/4Spa/252Spd spread is coming to life because diamond storm invested let's diance beat chansey to help its stall match up but I've never seen it. Not sure if this is for the simple questions thread but because with the viability ranking overhaul, diance is still in A+ and I'm curious to see how it is fairing in the current meta game.

 

[bludz]

Yeah Diancie is savage right now. HP Fire is practically a must unless you are using it with Magnezone. Fire + Rock + Fairy is better coverage than Ground provides, even if it's weaker and the Speed drop. You don't beat Skarm but Scizor and Ferro are not safe.

Max Atk is best for Clefable since the standard Calm EV spread is 2HKOd on the switch a lot of the time by 252 Diamond Storm. It can also beat Amoonguss after Rocks sometimes and Slowking if its EVd for SpA Diancie. Rock type moves are pretty tough to switch into lately and that's notable with the increase in Band Tyranitar and Terrakion, so Diancie certainly capitalizes as well.

 

[staticladder]

Has anyone been experimenting with ev spread and move sets for mega-Diance? I'm just getting back to using this thing and I've heard a lot has changed for it. I heard hp fire should always be run instead of earth power because beating scizor, ferrothorn and skarmory (some on the switch) is invaluable right now. Also I heard about a 252atk/4Spa/252Spd spread is coming to life because diamond storm invested let's diance beat chansey to help its stall match up but I've never seen it. Not sure if this is for the simple questions thread but because with the viability ranking overhaul, diance is still in A+ and I'm curious to see how it is fairing in the current meta game.

If running this set, what nature would be chosen? Something to boost Attack, Special Attack or Speed? An Attack boost would maximize Diamond Storm's potential, capitalizing on Diancie's main move with these EVs, though a nature to boost Special Attack would make Moonblast and HP Fire more powerful and frequently used. Seeing that the meta revolves around slower Pokemon these days, Speed might help to outspeed... base 100s?

 

[Martin]

If running this set, what nature would be chosen? Something to boost Attack, Special Attack or Speed? An Attack boost would maximize Diamond Storm's potential, capitalizing on Diancie's main move with these EVs, though a nature to boost Special Attack would make Moonblast and HP Fire more powerful and frequently used. Seeing that the meta revolves around slower Pokemon these days, Speed might help to outspeed... base 100s?

On max attack variants run Naive. The ability to outpace Keldeo etc. is too valuable to pass up regardless of your EV distribution, and its nice being able to tie with HP Fire Latios (or outpace it/tie with non-HP Fire variants if you carry Earth Power).

 

[Sun]

To add to the advantages of this set mentioned by bludz, this spread allows him to have at least 30% of 2HKO Chansey after rocks, and do 2HKO guaranteed offensive Mvenu with rocks, this set also loves Spikes support, which serve to ensure 2HKO of Chansey and mega Venu.

 

[EraiMHFU]

Feels good to be a zombie

Can someone please tell me how the meta has changed since February?

 

[dk]

Feels good to be a zombie

Can someone please tell me how the meta has changed since February?

Hoopa-Unbound was banned, Volcanion (a Fire/Water bulky wallbreaker that essentially has super scald) was released, and bulky offense is probably the most prominent playstyle right now. ABR's Weavile stall team is also pretty common on the ladder.

 

[MegaStarUniverse]

whats everyones opinion on nasty plot slowking? i been using it and its actually good. it takes hits from latios, tornadus, diance , medicham , metagross. sweeps teams that struggle with bulky waters and has good offensive presence. i like it a lot

 

[BIG G CHOPPA]

whats everyones opinion on nasty plot slowking? i been using it and its actually good. it takes hits from latios, tornadus, diance , medicham , metagross. sweeps teams that struggle with bulky waters and has good offensive presence. i like it a lot

Pretty interesting to say the least, can be scary on TR if that means anything and like t punch mega medi is rlly common rn so i wouldnt rlly agree with it taking hits from mega medi unless if it lacks t punch. Glad you brought it up cause it sadly doesnt get enough love :(

 

[Sun]

I think that is a very good slowking Pokémon, thanks to volcanion, has become much more useful, cm version is very scary, nasty plot version, well, I find a version too "weak" in the sense that scares only offensively instead of Cm slowking can not scare teams prepared (or without countermeasures to beat) both offensively than defensively, also it has a great ability that allows him to have a passive recovery, I think it works very well in offense and bulky balance in teams, because it supports the team against Keldeo, mega gross and mega Medicham (if they do not run t.punch) volcanion, Tornadus-Therian, all these threats are very difficult to beat for certain types of teams. slowking also offers good support to speed using twave obviously slowking has not only the good things, his typing and its low-def than slowbro make it very vulnerable to slowking pursuit trap, and strong physical Wallbreaker as mega lopunny, DD Landorus .

 

[p2]

yeah im not sold on np slowking. cm is usually way better because it puts a ton of pressure on stuff like torn-t and latios, which would be able to chip at np slowking then pick it off while cm heavily reduces the risk of setting up when they're still alive.

slowking is general is very solid, checking big threats in keld/mgross/volcanion/latis/torn-t/diancie/lop. very underrated and an unprepared for wincon because the extra spdef is really useful when it comes to beating lati and tornt. obviously it's lacking when it comes to pursuiters but in the worst case it can live pursuit from lo weavile / scarftar and such.

basically, why use np slowking when you can use manaphy?

edit @ below: stab psyshock doesn't matter when manaphy can already blow past venu with unstabbed psychic and when it can break chansey with rd sets. though regen is really nice to have over mana

 

[Ojo46]

Slowking has STAB on Psychic/Psyshock that Manaphy can't get STAB on, has a few options like Fire Blast that Manaphy can't use, and it's slightly bulkier on the special defensive front, so I can see why a few people would want to use it over Manaphy, but there is that awful speed.....

 

[MegaStarUniverse]

i agree p2. the niche on slowking having better Sp.def then Slowbro and having access to nasty plot, and dragon tail to phase out just stands out to me but manaphy does a better job of pressuring teams i agree

 

[Seth_]

Last time I had idea about 2 OU sweepers which are not really good right now, Dragonite and Mega Gyarados. It is so hard to set up sweep with them. We all know that clef, azu or ferro stops them really well. However I think there might be special offensive synergy between these two. Let's meet Dragonite da ultimate lure!

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Iron Tail

LO iron head always 2HKO clef and deal horrific amount of damage (up to 75%). Thunderbolt destroys every azu set, fire blast anihilate ferrothorn and scizor. Last but not least draco meteor for STAB damage on things like rotom, bulky chomp and others. Sinece both breloom and conkeldurr droped in usage it is much safe to use mega gyarados without fear of mach punch. One last thing which you have to worry about is t-wave thundurus which can be traped by scarf ttar. and worn down by rocks damage.

It is really funny core to use. I have a lot of fun playing with it (especially when I draco turn 1 against enemy's medi/loppuny). Go check that out!

 

[Terrakion.]

Last time I had idea about 2 OU sweepers which are not really good right now, Dragonite and Mega Gyarados. It is so hard to set up sweep with them. We all know that clef, azu or ferro stops them really well. However I think there might be special offensive synergy between these two. Let's meet Dragonite da ultimate lure!

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Iron Tail

LO iron head always 2HKO clef and deal horrific amount of damage (up to 75%). Thunderbolt destroys every azu set, fire blast anihilate ferrothorn and scizor. Last but not least draco meteor for STAB damage on things like rotom, bulky chomp and others. Sinece both breloom and conkeldurr droped in usage it is much safe to use mega gyarados without fear of mach punch. One last thing which you have to worry about is t-wave thundurus which can be traped by scarf ttar. and worn down by rocks damage.

It is really funny core to use. I have a lot of fun playing with it (especially when I draco turn 1 against enemy's medi/loppuny). Go check that out!

Sure it might seem something cool to use but what does this have over something like Latios? It has a stronger Draco Meteor, Psyshock is consistent damage against Clefable, and Latios can utilize Thunderbolt (i think) as well. Along with having a better offensive presence, outspeeding Dragonite, it provides great offensive utility in Defog. After a Draco Meteor, the Dragonite becomes rather weak and set up fodder for something else as it gives the opponent a free turn to work with.

 

[Gotham Paladin]

Banded Terrakion is something I have been using a lot lately, and I can say that it is working wonders for me. I have noticed more people have been starting to use this monster, and I can see why. Essentially, this thing hits super hard. Predict right with either edge or cc, and that leads to a kill most of the time. The speed is something I also like as well. Just having this great offensive typing as well as the stats to back it up is so good right now in this meta. Very good revenge mon, as again, theres like no switch ins. I love to pair this thing with CM mega latias, both have very good synergy to me. This thing can pave the way for a team member to sweep. I'd like to know who else finds this mon fun to use right now, because its working out for me.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Sure it might seem something cool to use but what does this have over something like Latios? It has a stronger Draco Meteor, Psyshock is consistent damage against Clefable, and Latios can utilize Thunderbolt (i think) as well. Along with having a better offensive presence, outspeeding Dragonite, it provides great offensive utility in Defog. After a Draco Meteor, the Dragonite becomes rather weak and set up fodder for something else as it gives the opponent a free turn to work with.

Although I feel like Dragonite is overall mediocre in the current metagame, mixed Dragonite wouldn't be completely outclassed by Latios if you opt for ExtremeSpeed over Iron Tail or Thunderbolt. Then it does have some merit wiping out Landorus-T with a surprise Draco and proceeding to clean up late game or something. Also probably a mistake, but I don't think you want to run Inner Focus over Multiscale.

 

[Eclipse]

Although I feel like Dragonite is overall mediocre in the current metagame, mixed Dragonite wouldn't be completely outclassed by Latios if you opt for ExtremeSpeed over Iron Tail or Thunderbolt. Then it does have some merit wiping out Landorus-T with a surprise Draco and proceeding to clean up late game or something. Also probably a mistake, but I don't think you want to run Inner Focus over Multiscale.

I think the intent was to lure Medi/Lop with Inner Focus, and besides it makes little sense to run Multiscale with Life Orb aside from making switchins at 100% easier

 

[Firebird101]

That set doesn't even have Extremespeed, so "luring" fake outs from Medi/Lop is absolutely pointless unless the opponent doesn't realize they are faster. Even taking as little advantage of Multiscale as possible and only make it a one-time emergency tank for some shit is better than Inner Focus.

 

[BIG G CHOPPA]

Banded Terrakion is something I have been using a lot lately, and I can say that it is working wonders for me. I have noticed more people have been starting to use this monster, and I can see why. Essentially, this thing hits super hard. Predict right with either edge or cc, and that leads to a kill most of the time. The speed is something I also like as well. Just having this great offensive typing as well as the stats to back it up is so good right now in this meta. Very good revenge mon, as again, theres like no switch ins. I love to pair this thing with CM mega latias, both have very good synergy to me. This thing can pave the way for a team member to sweep. I'd like to know who else finds this mon fun to use right now, because its working out for me.

Yeah i'm really loving how it can simply blow back some balance builds. Man this thing is so strong, its ridiculous. People usually have to sac something just to get something in safely. Works wonders honestly and yea between cc, and stone edge it comes up to predictions. Make the wrong prediction and you can lose a mon. For example some stall builds have to predict quag or mega sable quag gets bodied by a close combat and mega sable wont like a stone edge. This thing is just scary to say the least as some offensive checks that resist its stone edge get 2 hit koed. When the rock resist is x. lol.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 151-178 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(still does quite a good chunk)

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 241-285 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 144-170 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 127-150 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 204-241 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 180-213 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 127-150 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 294-346 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Martin]

I remember special Drag was a thing on rain last gen, but in general it is pretty mediocre in ORAS on the basis that it simply lacks the presence that DD has. Without espeed it is really hard to justify anyway because it is too slow to comfortably forgo available priority without having something to fall back on like, say, SubPunch Loom does in Spore, and especially without Multiscale (which helps it ensure that it gets at least one hit off alongside Drag's low speed) the set you have listed is basically a worse Salamence. Part of Special Drag's niche over mence is also that it has a powerful Flying-type STAB in Hurricane which you have not listed on your set and as such I would never really be able to find any reason to use the listed set over something else on any serious team.

 

[Seth_]

Sure it might seem something cool to use but what does this have over something like Latios? It has a stronger Draco Meteor, Psyshock is consistent damage against Clefable, and Latios can utilize Thunderbolt (i think) as well. Along with having a better offensive presence, outspeeding Dragonite, it provides great offensive utility in Defog. After a Draco Meteor, the Dragonite becomes rather weak and set up fodder for something else as it gives the opponent a free turn to work with.

First of all iron tail deals much higher amount of damage to clef than any other move.

Second thing: this is gimmick. It has this suprise factor which let you hurt typical mega gyarados checks and bring them low enough to point when you can easli set up one dragon dance and sweep.

It does not have obvioua advantage over latios but has suprise factor and it lures every mega gyarados chceck beside keldeo.

 

[Terrakion.]

First of all iron tail deals much higher amount of damage to clef than any other move.

I said consistent damage, Psyshock doesn't have a chance to miss. You also don't have Multiscale so a Iron Tail miss allow Clefable to do a good amount of damage.

Second thing: this is gimmick. It has this suprise factor which let you hurt typical mega gyarados checks and bring them low enough to point when you can easli set up one dragon dance and sweep.

There would be much better lures than of that matter of Dragonite. Gimmicks turn out to be really lackluster and just a waste of a slot on a team.

Martin. really sums up why that set wouldn't be as effective as you think.