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ORAS OU Reservation Index V3
- Thread starter Hootie
- Start date
Zygarde is back up for reservation. For whoever takes it, use the skeleton from the last thread (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zygarde-qc-2-3-writing.3566896/) and just write it up from there.
Yeah, I got permission to write the Volcanion analysis.
I think it's definitely still a bit early for an analysis on Volcanion. I can talk to the rest of QC and get their thoughts, but I'd rather put out a higher quality analysis that's informed based on more experience than doing a rush job just to have something.
For the record I think Specs has been basically explored since it's a really simple concept. But defensive or bulky utility ish sets are really still not finalized in terms of how to best utilize them in terms of partners and movesets or whatever. I've used that Haze Toxic set enough to know that this doesn't feel like a final product to me yet, at least in terms of strong builds with it since I've seen exactly 0. Plus barely anyone has explored Resttalk (conserves Steam PP which is cool) to the point where it could be determined as a possible write-up or OO
Granted we can always do what we did with Hoopa and add sets later. But my concern is primarily the lack of exploration into defensive sets as a whole in this metagame. littlelucario you say you've experimented with them so send me some builds or whatever if you want cuz I still haven't seen a good one that properly utilizes it. Of course it's simple enough to say it pairs well with Sab and defensive grasses but zz this sort of lacks a fundamental understanding that's achieved through experience and finding cores that function outside of obvious type synergy and hazard blocking yada yada
I think it's definitely still a bit early for an analysis on Volcanion. I can talk to the rest of QC and get their thoughts, but I'd rather put out a higher quality analysis that's informed based on more experience than doing a rush job just to have something.
For the record I think Specs has been basically explored since it's a really simple concept. But defensive or bulky utility ish sets are really still not finalized in terms of how to best utilize them in terms of partners and movesets or whatever. I've used that Haze Toxic set enough to know that this doesn't feel like a final product to me yet, at least in terms of strong builds with it since I've seen exactly 0. Plus barely anyone has explored Resttalk (conserves Steam PP which is cool) to the point where it could be determined as a possible write-up or OO
Granted we can always do what we did with Hoopa and add sets later. But my concern is primarily the lack of exploration into defensive sets as a whole in this metagame. littlelucario you say you've experimented with them so send me some builds or whatever if you want cuz I still haven't seen a good one that properly utilizes it. Of course it's simple enough to say it pairs well with Sab and defensive grasses but zz this sort of lacks a fundamental understanding that's achieved through experience and finding cores that function outside of obvious type synergy and hazard blocking yada yada
Hello everyone, can I book Mienshao? has no analysis for ou tier, also I find it very good, has some very interesting sets. I saw it in tournaments, and has been effective in many games, I think he can merit an analysis, let me know if I can do it, thanks :)
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Could I do an analysis for Specs Goodra? It recently came into the public with this post from user Gary2346 (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-metagame-discussion.3546114/page-23#post-6773086) and is actually a pretty good set, as it has a lot more offensive presence than the Assault Vest set, and with Goodra's good special bulk and Sap Sipper, checks a lot of big threats such as Serperior, Electric-types, and the newly released Volcanion, while also having a ton of coverage moves like Fire Blast to roast ferro and other Steels and Sludge Wave to 2HKO Clefable. While it still faces a lot of competition from other Dragon-types, I think Specs Goodra still has good enough of a niche in it's decent power, coverage, and solid bulk to deserve a set.
Mienshao's niche over other fighting types is so small that I don't think it really needs/warrants a write up. There are so many good fighting types right now - Keldeo, Terrakion, Mega Lopunny, Mega Medicham, Breloom, etc - that it seems to me I would have a hard time justifying the use of Mienshao. It does have some cool options at its disposal with Swords Dance/Knock Off/U-Turn and the ability to go mixed to hit Lando/Chomp with HP Ice, but its niche really ends there to me. It's plagued by a terrible defensive typing, Mega Beedrill levels of bulk (see calc below), and a speed tier that is pretty shit for such an offensive mon. Also when you look at other fighting types in the tier, a lot of what makes them shine are their great secondary typings and STABs that allow them to blow through fighting resists - something that Mienshao doesn't have. So yeah, I don't think it deserves a write up when it's very likely that another fighting type can do the job better.
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Likewise, I'm against giving Specs Goodra a write up as well. I get that it's a pretty cool mon in this meta where Volcanion is on every other team, but I don't think its usefulness will last very long. Even with Choice Specs, this thing only hits marginally harder than LO Latios, and if you run Choice Specs on Latios (which is a perfectly viable set) Latios actually hits harder even with a Timid nature. Once you take into account the 50 or so mons Latios outspeeds that Goodra doesn't, Goodra's niche starts to shrink really quickly. In terms of coverage, the only thing it has on the Latis is Sludge Wave/Bomb and Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but HP Fire Lati is extremely common and gets the job done in most cases. Specs Goodra also runs into issues in being extremely prediction reliant and becoming set up fodder once it has locked into a move, which is pretty undesirable. Finally without bulk investment or an Assault Vest, Goodra becomes quite easy to revenge kill especially when you consider its low speed and lackluster physical bulk. Hell, it's almost as vulnerable to Pursuit trapping as the Latis, considering ScarfTar's Pursuit is a 2HKO if you switch. Overall, there are just way better options out there than Specs Goodra - Specs Lati, CM Mega Lati, Specs Kyu-B, etc. Goodra's only real niche is its insane special bulk boosted by an Assault Vest and strong and somewhat unpredictable coverage options. It becomes much easier to beat once its loses its bulk and ability to switch moves.
252 SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 309-364 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 91-108 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Likewise, I'm against giving Specs Goodra a write up as well. I get that it's a pretty cool mon in this meta where Volcanion is on every other team, but I don't think its usefulness will last very long. Even with Choice Specs, this thing only hits marginally harder than LO Latios, and if you run Choice Specs on Latios (which is a perfectly viable set) Latios actually hits harder even with a Timid nature. Once you take into account the 50 or so mons Latios outspeeds that Goodra doesn't, Goodra's niche starts to shrink really quickly. In terms of coverage, the only thing it has on the Latis is Sludge Wave/Bomb and Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but HP Fire Lati is extremely common and gets the job done in most cases. Specs Goodra also runs into issues in being extremely prediction reliant and becoming set up fodder once it has locked into a move, which is pretty undesirable. Finally without bulk investment or an Assault Vest, Goodra becomes quite easy to revenge kill especially when you consider its low speed and lackluster physical bulk. Hell, it's almost as vulnerable to Pursuit trapping as the Latis, considering ScarfTar's Pursuit is a 2HKO if you switch. Overall, there are just way better options out there than Specs Goodra - Specs Lati, CM Mega Lati, Specs Kyu-B, etc. Goodra's only real niche is its insane special bulk boosted by an Assault Vest and strong and somewhat unpredictable coverage options. It becomes much easier to beat once its loses its bulk and ability to switch moves.
252 SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 309-364 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 91-108 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage
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"Other Options" could probably use some CMS edits to mention and highlight more offensive options. The current OO mentions gems such as Hydration + Rain Dance + Rest, Curse Goodra, and Counter Goodra. Specs / EBelt / more offensive Goodra are worth using over all of those options.
Okay so I wouldnt exactly be suprised if this got rejected because this mon admittedly has a lot of problems, but I figure it's at least worth asking. Can I write a Honchkrow analysis? I've used it quite a bit and I think it can be viable in OU. Honchkrow has a devastatingly powerful Brave Bird which along with excellent coverage and outstanding offensive typing that makes it into a powerful wallbreaker which can double as a sweeper or cleaner thanks to Moxie. Most of the tier is simply not prepared to take a Brave Bird coming off of a 125 attack stat, and relying on revenge killing can be dangerous as a +1 Sucker Punch can obliterate a significant portion of mons faster than Honchkrow. Honchkrow is difficult to wall thanks to its ability to go mixed as well as its solid coverage, meaning it racks up moxie boosts somewhat easily. Pokemon like Landorus-T and Garchomp that use Rocky Helmet and/or Rough Skin to try and wear Honchkrow down by switching into Brave Bird are comfortably 2HKOed by Icy Wind, while Ferrothorn and Skarmory (including spdef) are 2HKOed by Heat Wave. Other defensive "counters" such as Tyranitar and Heatran drop to Superpower. Afaik its only true (and relevant) counters are Rotom-W and Mega Diancie. It's terrifying once it gets going, and with spikes support, or other birds as partners to wear down its checks (birdspam), it can break past a significant portion of the things that can revenge kill it with sucker punch. While Honchkrow is worn down easily, it has good synergy with common Healing Wish users such as Jirachi and Latias. All this being said, I understand that Honchkrow has several very significant flaws that keep it from being amazing, but I really do believe that successful Honchkrow teams can be made and that it deserves an OU analysis because of how much work it is capable of putting in.
On a little bit of a sidenote I also think its worth giving an analysis just because of how different the sets for OU and UU Honchkrow are (you can't really just figure out the OU set by looking at the UU analysis for it because they're so different).
On a little bit of a sidenote I also think its worth giving an analysis just because of how different the sets for OU and UU Honchkrow are (you can't really just figure out the OU set by looking at the UU analysis for it because they're so different).
How come the one Mon I want to write a set for gets reserved the day I go to reserve it lmao.
Can I do Honchkrow or Darmanitan?
Would it be possible for a Pursuit Mega Scizor set to be done? It's A on the sets viability list atm and it's a pretty cool set in practice