Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)

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escarlata said:
Bisharp is still 2HKOed 100% of the time by Life Orb recoil by modest eq anyway. And running quiet gets you outsped by defensive heatran, which is nice to outspeed when you have EQ especially. Running quiet means you also mean you underspeed BD Azumarill, which can OHKO sometimes with +6 Play Rough after Stealth Rocks. Overall Quiet doesn't give anything notable, while modest gives somethings situationally useful, so modest would be better.
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Lefties Bisharp is definitely a thing, as is dread plate/blackglasses, collectively making up about 44% of all Bisharp. As for BD Azu, his most common spread (the one recommend on the dex) can still be outsped using Quiet by investing just 8 EVs into speed, so that's a nonissue. You do end up taking a second hit from defensive Heatran, but of course Mega Venu shouldn't be your go-to guy to hit Heatran in the first place. Which is to say, Mega Venu will rarely be 1v1ing him (rather trying to surprise and nail it on the switch in), and most teams should have something else to deal with it anyway, so I don't see it as that much of a downside. Plus, if we're already talking in terms of minuscule/situational benefits, the added damage of a neutral over negative attack nature isn't completely useless, for example if Heatran or whatever you're using EQ for has prior damage a 2HKO can become an OHKO.

Overall this is a pointless and fruitless debate. If you or anyone want to use Modest, be my guest. I rarely run EQ on Venu anyway.
 
Im thinking of putting defog on a banded scizor. I run it on a team with medicham so I find superpower kind of redundant, and while I know it would be switch in/switch out but...thats kind of the point of the team, and I cant bring myself to switch anyone out.

Has anyone had success with this? or do I have an option with similar damage output that would still allow scizor to utilize those switches to clear the field?
 
flargananddingle said:
Im thinking of putting defog on a banded scizor. I run it on a team with medicham so I find superpower kind of redundant, and while I know it would be switch in/switch out but...thats kind of the point of the team, and I cant bring myself to switch anyone out.

Has anyone had success with this? or do I have an option with similar damage output that would still allow scizor to utilize those switches to clear the field?
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I would recommend just running Defog/Rapid Spin on different mon, but if you're intent on using it on Scizor, you could use Life Orb instead of Band, to maintain the high damage output Scizor inflicts, and just run max HP to make up for the 10% HP loss. You could also have Roost if the HP loss is too much of a worry, as even with just 2 attacks, Scizor should still do it's job just as well for the most part.
 
SoulRed12 said:
Lefties Bisharp is definitely a thing, as is dread plate/blackglasses, collectively making up about 44% of all Bisharp. As for BD Azu, his most common spread (the one recommend on the dex) can still be outsped using Quiet by investing just 8 EVs into speed, so that's a nonissue. You do end up taking a second hit from defensive Heatran, but of course Mega Venu shouldn't be your go-to guy to hit Heatran in the first place. Which is to say, Mega Venu will rarely be 1v1ing him (rather trying to surprise and nail it on the switch in), and most teams should have something else to deal with it anyway, so I don't see it as that much of a downside. Plus, if we're already talking in terms of minuscule/situational benefits, the added damage of a neutral over negative attack nature isn't completely useless, for example if Heatran or whatever you're using EQ for has prior damage a 2HKO can become an OHKO.

Overall this is a pointless and fruitless debate. If you or anyone want to use Modest, be my guest. I rarely run EQ on Venu anyway.
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Actually this debate of Modest vs Quiet on mixed offensive Venu has happened before somewhere, where they reached the conclusion of 20 Spe Modest with EQ or 0 Spe Quiet with Knock Off. I shall just tag Feliciano because ultimately he should be the one making the judgement for his own Venu: 12.5% more chance to 2HKO a full HP bisharp, or the ability to check Crocune, BD Azu better.
 
RyanKoopa said:
What happened with Jirachi? Last time I checked it was unranked because it had no niche and now it's B+
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To elaborate a bit, with the banning of Aegislash people are realising that Jirachi can run a number of sets now which are very useful on all types of teams. Its defensive set counters Latias, Latios, Greninja, Mega Gardevoir, and Calm Mind Clefable. Its Choice Scarf set is pretty decent and its offensive Stealth Rock set isn't too bad either, especially with access to U-turn and Healing Wish. Jirachi has an insane movepool so it can really do quite a lot of things in the current XY meta.
 
escarlata said:
Actually this debate of Modest vs Quiet on mixed offensive Venu has happened before somewhere, where they reached the conclusion of 20 Spe Modest with EQ or 0 Spe Quiet with Knock Off. I shall just tag Feliciano because ultimately he should be the one making the judgement for his own Venu: 12.5% more chance to 2HKO a full HP bisharp, or the ability to check Crocune, BD Azu better.
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Thanks for the input, escarlata and SoulRed12 . Unfortunately, I can't get a Knock Off Mega Venusaur (this is the first gen where I've had the ability to get competitive mons anywhere but on Showdown, so the only way I can get competitive mons with 5th gen tutor exclusive moves is by trading), and as I stated before I'm pretty terrible at breeding for Hidden Power, so EQ is really my only other option for an offensive set.

I think what I'll probably end up doing is just breeding both a Quiet and a Modest Venusaur and just trying them both out. Heatran is definitely the main threat I'm concerned about, since it does seem to be the most commonly used of the threats that you two brought up, so I'm definitely going to need to consider how to deal with it (especially since I accidentally bred a Hasty Gible instead of a Naive one because my dumb ass doesn't have a Naive Ditto and figured a Hasty nature wouldn't make too big a difference...).

For the Quiet one, what do you suggest for EVs? I know I'm gonna want max sp. attack, but I'm not sure how to divvy up the rest of them.
 
Feliciano said:
Thanks for the input, escarlata and SoulRed12 . Unfortunately, I can't get a Knock Off Mega Venusaur (this is the first gen where I've had the ability to get competitive mons anywhere but on Showdown, so the only way I can get competitive mons with 5th gen tutor exclusive moves is by trading), and as I stated before I'm pretty terrible at breeding for Hidden Power, so EQ is really my only other option for an offensive set.

I think what I'll probably end up doing is just breeding both a Quiet and a Modest Venusaur and just trying them both out. Heatran is definitely the main threat I'm concerned about, since it does seem to be the most commonly used of the threats that you two brought up, so I'm definitely going to need to consider how to deal with it (especially since I accidentally bred a Hasty Gible instead of a Naive one because my dumb ass doesn't have a Naive Ditto and figured a Hasty nature wouldn't make too big a difference...).

For the Quiet one, what do you suggest for EVs? I know I'm gonna want max sp. attack, but I'm not sure how to divvy up the rest of them.
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here's venu's analysis http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/venusaur-update.3511059/
it still recommends modest with eq because it says it still 2hkos heatran. just make sure to change the spread to 240 hp / 252 spa / 16 spe because no hp fire. 96 spe can be used for jolly azu but it's not as common.
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/randombattle-165415327

Skip to the last turn (turn 32). As you can see, I use Flare Blitz to end the game. His Aftermath activates, and they give me the loss. Situations like these used to be ties, but I know they changed that a few months ago.

Normally, the rule of thumb in this situation is the attacker wins. Why does that not apply here i.e. why is Aftermath activating before the Skuntank faints?

It can't be argued that he hits 0% before I do, right? And hitting 0% is synonymous with fainting, right?
 
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Flamebot said:
i have been using a spread of 252HP and 252 attack on my Conkeldurr, but i want to know the actual standar spread for AV conk
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According to the Showdown calculator, AV Conkeldurr runs 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpDef to make the most out of the Special Defense boost.

airmcnair1217 said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/randombattle-165415327

Skip to the last turn (turn 32). As you can see, I use Flare Blitz to end the game. His Aftermath activates, and they give me the loss. Situations like these used to be ties, but I know they changed that a few months ago.

Normally, the rule of thumb in this situation is the attacker wins. Why does that not apply here i.e. why is Aftermath activating before the Skuntank faints?

It can't be argued that he hits 0% before I do, right? And hitting 0% is synonymous with fainting.
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The only potential answer I could muster for this would be perhaps the Aftermath is a futile last attempt with the remaining energy the Pokemon has or something? Not really sure of why the mechanics work as such, nor could I find the reasoning behind such mechanics through my slight research.
 
airmcnair1217 said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/randombattle-165415327

Skip to the last turn (turn 32). As you can see, I use Flare Blitz to end the game. His Aftermath activates, and they give me the loss. Situations like these used to be ties, but I know they changed that a few months ago.

Normally, the rule of thumb in this situation is the attacker wins. Why does that not apply here i.e. why is Aftermath activating before the Skuntank faints?

It can't be argued that he hits 0% before I do, right? And hitting 0% is synonymous with fainting, right?
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I found the official VGC rules, and the ruling is this:
VGC Rules said:
If a Pokémon’s Ability (such as Rough Skin, Aftermath, Liquid Ooze, or Iron Barbs) or held item (such as Rocky Helmet) results in each player’s final Pokémon fainting, the player whose Pokémon had the Ability or held item wins the game
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Here's the link where I got this: http://assets22.pokemon.com/assets/...14/Play_Pokemon_VG_Rules_and_Formats_2014.pdf
 
escarlata said:
Actually this debate of Modest vs Quiet on mixed offensive Venu has happened before somewhere, where they reached the conclusion of 20 Spe Modest with EQ or 0 Spe Quiet with Knock Off. I shall just tag Feliciano because ultimately he should be the one making the judgement for his own Venu: 12.5% more chance to 2HKO a full HP bisharp, or the ability to check Crocune, BD Azu better.
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Now that's a bit silly, I already explained why "Modest checks Crocune and BD Azu better than Quiet" is misleading/a nonissue. But sure, it's overall his own decision, it's just a good idea to frame the judgment call properly when presenting the decision.

Feliciano said:
For the Quiet one, what do you suggest for EVs? I know I'm gonna want max sp. attack, but I'm not sure how to divvy up the rest of them.
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My recommendation is max SpAtk, then put 8 20 EVs in speed to outpace BD Azu's normal spread and the rest in HP. For Modest, max SpAtk again and drop 20 EVs into speed to outpace defensive Heatran's normal spread (or 44 if you're really that worried about Suicune) and the rest in HP.

EDIT: Actually, at level 50, the calc says you should put in 20 speed EVs for Quiet to outspeed BD Azu. If you're planning on playing at level 100 you can use 8.

airmcnair1217 said:
Thanks for the clarification. Philosophically, I'd strongly argue that situations where both final Pokemon die on the final turn should be ties, but that's a whole nother matter in itself.
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My understanding of the logic is that 0% doesn't count as fainting, the pokemon has to actually do their fainting animation for it to count as fainting and the game just does whoever faints first. Not calling it good logic (or bad logic), just saying that's how they look at it.
 
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SoulRed12 said:
Now that's a bit silly, I already explained why "Modest checks Crocune and BD Azu better than Quiet" is misleading/a nonissue. But sure, it's overall his own decision, it's just a good idea to frame the judgment call properly when presenting the decision.
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Modest checks Suicune better because if you come in on anything other than Calm Mind, Suicune wouldn't get more than 1 boost up, whereas Quiet will always let it set up. As for Azu, despite what the set says onsite, according to usage stats, on both 1695 and 1825s, 252 Spe Azu is still a more common spread than 164 Spe Azu, so Modest is indeed checking it more reliably, because Modest 16 Spe outspeed 252 Adamant.
SoulRed12 said:
My recommendation is max SpAtk, then put 8 EVs in speed to outpace BD Azu's normal spread and the rest in HP. For Modest, max SpAtk again and drop 20 EVs into speed to outpace defensive Heatran's normal spread (or 44 if you're worried about Suicune's less than 1.9% usage) and the rest in HP.
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For Modest, 16 Spe is sufficient for Heatran because you are not running HP Fire to lower your Spe IV, and 40 is enough for EQ for the same reason. And as for Suicune's usage, losing 6 max HP for the ability to check 1.9% of the metagame is not exactly a bad trade-off.

Honestly, I don't see your aim in continue trying to debate on this, especially when the original questioner said he will try out both in practice. Besides, I'm practically rephrasing what is currently onsite. And don't quote me on this anymore, whatever either of us adds on to this doesn't affect his option anyway, since he wants to try out both anyway.
 
escarlata said:
Modest checks Suicune better because if you come in on anything other than Calm Mind, Suicune wouldn't get more than 1 boost up, whereas Quiet will always let it set up. As for Azu, despite what the set says onsite, according to usage stats, on both 1695 and 1825s, 252 Spe Azu is still a more common spread than 164 Spe Azu.

For Modest, 16 Spe is sufficient for Heatran because you are not running HP Fire to lower your Spe IV, and 40 is enough for EQ for the same reason. And as for Suicune's usage, losing 6 max HP for the ability to check 1.9% of the metagame is not exactly a bad trade-off.

Honestly, I don't see your aim in continue trying to debate on this, especially when the original questioner said he will try out both in practice. Besides, I'm practically rephrasing what is currently onsite. And don't quote me on this anymore, whatever either of us adds on to this doesn't affect his option anyway, since he wants to try out both anyway.
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Actually, I wasn't continuing to debate it, I just indicated that I had already addressed your points. In fact, you continued the debate by writing this (again, very misleading) last post. My intent was to leave it at my last post, but since you posted again, I guess I'll just leave it here.
 
BONGMASTER420 said:
What's a good EV spread on Zard X? My moves are DD, Dragon Claw, Roost and Flare Blitz. Should I use the Bulky DD set?
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If you want to go bulky, the analysis recommends 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe. For offensive, it recommends 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe.

I can't really recommend bulky or offensive though, you have to choose based on the rest of your team.
 
ForumBeta said:
Why was Gliscor unable to have the Roost/Poison Heal combo before Gen VI?
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Roost lost it's TM status in generation 5 but returned to a TM in generation 6 so hence why it couldn't learn the move in combination with Poison Heal. It was a BW2 tutor move though so it could learn it in BW2, just not the original BW.
 
Durant said:
Roost lost it's TM status in generation 5 but returned to a TM in generation 6 so hence why it couldn't learn the move in combination with Poison Heal. It was a BW2 tutor move though so it could learn it in BW2, just not the original BW.
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That and if you run Roost you either lose Toxic or EQ... At least on the SubToxic set... IDK
 
I notice a lot of Legends fall into the OU tier, among others, but my question is why/how are they so prominent given that you cannot breed them. Are there so many hacked perfect IVs out there that they are commonplace and easy to obtain if desired? I want to make an OU team but not with any legendaries in it, and it seems most have at least one.
 
BlitzJG said:
I notice a lot of Legends fall into the OU tier, among others, but my question is why/how are they so prominent given that you cannot breed them. Are there so many hacked perfect IVs out there that they are commonplace and easy to obtain if desired? I want to make an OU team but not with any legendaries in it, and it seems most have at least one.
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A lot of people get legendaries on the cart through RNG abuse in previous generations, and others get it through having been traded clones of RNG'd legends. And of course, many are simply hacked/gen'd.

As for the OU tier itself, that's based on usage on the simulator, where breeding and obtaining pokemon isn't an issue.
 
BlitzJG said:
I notice a lot of Legends fall into the OU tier, among others, but my question is why/how are they so prominent given that you cannot breed them. Are there so many hacked perfect IVs out there that they are commonplace and easy to obtain if desired? I want to make an OU team but not with any legendaries in it, and it seems most have at least one.
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Tiers are based off of usage on Pokemon Showdown. Which is a Simulator. Which means you can get a flawless Keldeo like that. In game however, people tend to RNG legendarys instead.(or in the case of X/Y, Soft Reset)
While this doesn't give you a full answer, it does explain why there are many legendarys in OU ^^
EDIT: Ninja'd
 
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